Fayetteville, AR · Member since 2015 · 80 posts · 34 votes
Hi everybody! I'm a newbie. bought my first house in February and had it rented May 1st. Late July my tenant sent me a text with a sob story about a fraudulent check he deposited, he wouldn't have the rent on the first and could he pay the 15th of August. He works at a local school district and I thought maybe that was payday. So I said yes. He said that the summer "dried up" he couldn't get a job. ummmm. This is Northwest Arkansas, there are jobs everywhere. the 15th came and he said this special check he was supposed to get didn't come in the mail. NO RENT $. I gave him his 3 day notice. He said he would have most of the rent Friday (the 18th). guess what? NO $.
big question. Do I go ahead and call my lawyer on Monday and start the eviction? or wait one more day.
meanwhile, I did a walk thru on the 15th. He keeps the house nice and clean, the lawn is mowed. and he never bothers me. during the walk thru he said they never use the dishwasher because it didn't work. Not a dirty dish in sight. He had never bothered me about the disherwasher. ends up that it does work, he just didn't know how to use it.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
I would start the eviction process immediately. You can always cancel it if he ever pays.
Going forward, make sure your lease provides for the reimbursement of your fees (attorney, process server, court) associated with the reinforcement of the lease terms (including, and especially the non-payment of rent).
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
I would start the eviction process immediately. You can always cancel it if he ever pays.
Going forward, make sure your lease provides for the reimbursement of your fees (attorney, process server, court) associated with the reinforcement of the lease terms (including, and especially the non-payment of rent).
Investor · Huntingtown, MD · Member since 2016 · 97 posts · 41 votes
9y
Agreed...I'd start the process. That will show your tenant you are serious and will not have your good nature taken advantage of. If he gets the message and starts paying, no need to evict, but the tenant needs to know that sort of behavior will not be tolerated.
Specialist · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 47 votes
9y
You could start the eviction process, or just offer him cash for keys to just move out on his own. Tell him a move-out date that he must be out, and if you show up on that date, all his stuff is out, house has no damage and is in broom-swept condition, you pay him x amount of dollars to give you his keys and leave peacefully. Then, change the locks immediately. This keeps people from destroying property while you go through the eviction process. Banks do this all the time with foreclosures as it's usually cheaper and faster than paying an attorney. You also don't have to worry about angry people punching in the drywall and leaving you with thousands in damages to the house. Finally, it gives people going through a tough time some moving money or cash for a deposit on a more affordable rental. But yes, either give him a move-out date (not very long) for a cash-for-keys deal (get the agreement in writing and signed by both of you) or start the eviction. It's obvious his life has changed so that he can't afford your rental and needs to leave.
Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Yes; I would start the eviction process immediately. You have already provided him with his three day Pay or Quit notice. He has done neither.
Your next option is filing for the eviction on Monday through your court system. You can contact your attorney to do this or do this yourself (it typically is an easy process depending on the state you live in).
As mentioned, he can still come up with the rent; however, after you filing he would also owe court costs of filing plus any attorney fees you have incurred.
Specialist · Springfield, MO · Member since 2016 · 104 posts · 54 votes
9y
Agree with above, file Monday. I believe that after you file in Arkansas, he will have 10 days to either pay (preferably rent + $30 filing fee) or sheriff will be there to evict on day 10. Good luck!
What do your state landlord tenant regulations say regarding accepting of partial payment. In many states accepting partial payment will prevent you from going forward with the eviction and you really need to get rid of this tenant.
You will be facing the same excuses every month if you do not get rid of him.
If you do not evict this time tell him that if he is ever late again, even by 1 day, he will be evict. Zero tolerance for proven bad tenants.
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
9y
@Thomas S. makes a great point. In some communities, accepting any payment causes your eviction proceedings to terminate.
This tenant has learned that he can play you. Next time he offers you 70%, politely thank him, give back that check and tell him to come back to you when he has 100% so that you can gladly stop the eviction process.
If you evict, be sure to get a judgment so you can try to retroactively collect what he owes you.
The guy is obviously making an honest effort. It's up to you whether you want to be Snidely Whiplash or Dudley Do-Right.
It might be in both your interests to be a friend to him: if you know places that are hiring his skill set, point those out to him. If you know someone working at a place that's hiring, help him network his way in.
Dodgy tenants are dime (or less) a dozen. They deserve to have you be Snidely Whiplash.
He seems to be a good tenant - keeps the place well and is diligent. This guy you want to keep if you can. He may even turn out to be a valuable contact later on, y'never know - do him a good turn now, and who knows? He deserves to have you be Dudley Do-Right.
Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
9y
@Diane Stinebaugh Once again I see a couple of posters on here talking about cash for keys and ways to work with a tenant who is months behind in rent. I'm not sure it occurs to them they are really not helping the tenant or you the OP. After all it's easy to tell another person to take a loss on a bad tenant. It's easy to tell some body else to jeopardize their lnvestment by throwing away a bunch of money on a guy that's not paying you. ( lost rent, vacancy cost, turn over cost, legal fees, and so forth). It's also easy to tell somebody else to go through the stress of making a mortgage payment that was supposed to be covered with rent. When I look at the profiles of these posters Many times I see newbie or I don't have any deals yet or something like that. Then I see the king of kings. Their immediate response is "cash for keys". Again poor economics in most cases. Time is the key thing. It's your biggest expense. Cash for keys on the first day he was late May have saved you money. The cash would have had to have been cheaper and faster than the eviction. In my state the that would mean I would have given him 300 dollars and 3 weeks to move. Is that really a good solution?? Cash for keys is for the guy who has been living or occupieng a property you just bought at some discount and he needs to move fast so you can start a rehab or flip or something. It should never be used as a tool to teach a tenant it's ok to be late on your rent. Now as for not helping the tenant. The people who advocate working with a tenant beyond a week are two (and the eviction notice has already been filed while you are working with him) are helping train the tenant that late rent is ok. Then when the poor tenant eventually moves (usually after he pushes his landlord to far and gets evicted) he tries it on the next land lord. By this time he knows land lords are rich and don't need the rent on time. If he happens to rent from a seasoned land lord who knows the ropes he's late once and comes home to a cure or quit notice. There is no paying rent at the end of the month. If he pushes his luck with that guy he gets evicted. That's what being too lienient does for the tenant. Here's what we do. Rent due on the first. Tenant goes dark here sometimes. Can't call him or anything. Eviction process started (notice posted) on the 6th. Tenant suddenly calls you to make arrangements. You tell him ok rent paid in full by X. You tell him you will stop the process after he's paid late fee and rent both in full. My lease states that the tenant pays for the eviction process so he pays that expense next month as well. You won't accept partial rent if it stops the eviction. The eviction continues until rent is paid in full period. While he's making these arrangements you schedule a walk through. What he learns here is that every time the rent is late he will get an eviction notice, the process won't stop until he's out or the rent is paid, and he will suffer a walk through and pay for the associated attorney fees. If he starts to make it a habit you tell him the next time you will just go ahead and evict. I have 8 long term tenants. Two had to learn by this method. I never have late rent. It cost me thousands to learn it. I used to be soft but the last one cost $3,000 in lost rent plus the mortgages. After playing me for 3 months I finally got her out but not before she stole my brand new refrigerator. She was all nicely nicey up to that point. RR
Fayetteville, AR · Member since 2015 · 80 posts · 34 votes
9y
@David Dachtera, at this point I'm hoping he comes thru, really. He and his wife work for a school district but they are classified (not teachers or principals). So they have jobs 10 months a year. . . and he seems to have a leadership role in his church and wants to do right. He got a great reference email from his boss (a principal). <sigh> the whole thing just makes me nervous.
Fayetteville, AR · Member since 2015 · 80 posts · 34 votes
9y
@Ralph R. thank you for all your input. I read every word and I agree with you on training the tenants everything you say makes sense. and I had never heard of cash for keys from a land lord before, I didn't really see how that would work. I appreciate you explaining it. and you are right: "time is the key thing" but in my context, I see that letting him slide to the 15th put me in a bad situation. If I could get a non paying tenant out early in the month I have a chance to get a new and hopefully better tenant in by the first. at least a chance, anyway.
"Failure to pay rent or to pay rent on time, for any reason, is grounds for eviction. In Arkansas, a landlord may pursue a tenant in a civil action for “unlawful detainer.”"
Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
9y
@Diane Stinebaugh that post took me a while as I'm on my smart phone. What you said about waiting is so true. This guy would be history soon or you would have had your rent by now. I have never had to evict But we would if the tenant didn't come through. Once you start the process don't stop till you have the rent you will get it most times. The reason for the walk through is two fold. One you get a heads up as to what condition the unit is in before you evict. it's a good time to make a big deal of it. Take pics etc. second if you end up evicting you have before and after pictures to show the judge if you need to go after damages. In my case I could have chased that tenant that took my refrigerator. People who advise a soft approach usually don't have a lot of rentals or are hobby landlords that have 1 or 2 rental units and arnt trying to make any money at it. There's lots of good tenants out there. Who cares if a tenant is nice and keeps a clean house and you like him a lot. When you bought the house you were looking for cash flow not a place for a caretaker to live. The best renter in the world is a olhorrible tenant if you have to fight to get paid every month. RR
Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 240 posts · 153 votes
9y
It's totally up to you. I'm pretty lenient towards my tenants, but you don't have to give them an absurd amount of time like over a month. It's Saturday today. Tell em you'll start the eviction process on Tuesday.
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
9y
People with seasonal jobs might have such an issue. I'd make sure all the late fees paid and other payments they owe (water, other reimbursable payments) and late fees won't stop until all paid in full.
No cash for keys - unless a house in really bad neighborhood. Eviction and judgment must be filed if needed.
It's totally up to you. I'm pretty lenient towards my tenants, but you don't have to give them an absurd amount of time like over a month. It's Saturday today. Tell em you'll start the eviction process on Tuesday.
If she already took the partial payment, she can not file eviction
Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
9y
@Irina Belkofer I'm not familiar with Arkansas tenant landlord law but in Colorado you can file for eviction as long as there is unpaid rent. We always apply any money to water and sewer bills first. Then we can still file based on rent due. RR
Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
9y
@Irina Belkofer you are correct about vacancy but if your negotiations with the tenant take place without having filed for the eviction you are behind most of a months rent before you file. In this case it's the 19th of the month and op doesn't have the full rent or the eviction started. If you think about it what are the odds he will be able to pay all of sept rent on the first if he can't finish paying August yet?? Did you ever try to catch up a house payment?? It's the same thing with a tenants rent bits their biggest monthly expense. She is already looking at a problem in sept and an eviction in sept ends up available to rent in October. I dunno about Arkansas but a vacancy in any of my areas in October is tough. November and Dec are worse. negotiations here could easily set her up for a longer vacancy. Negotiations are fine but you negotiate while the eviction is in progress. Had the op done that her rent would either be here by now or he would be almost out and she would have her vacancies in Sept. Much better time to find a tenant. Even if he paid the rent and she got the writ it's good for 45 days. That means all the court stuff is done. If sept rent isn't in all she has to do is serve the writ and he is out in 48 hrs or what ever the law is in Arkansas. Just because you have the eviction doesn't mean you have to use it but you can if you have to. RR
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
9y
Yes, anything after September is hard to rent. But when you start the eviction talk, usually the tenants move out within couple days by themselves. They know that they'll never will get anything good o rent with an eviction.
If I do negotiate the date they still catch up on payments and take partial payments, they might be good by October-November and keep it up through the winter. In May-June it's easy breezy to rent.
Anyway, the OP has to make her own decision - to keep them or to kick out. Sometimes people do have hard time and then get back on track......sometimes they don't want to. You have to consider case by case.
If I were her, I wouldn't let them skip the July payment - I have to pay my mortgage and there is no exception for me. But she already started that, she might as well go further.
Specialist · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 47 votes
9y
@Ralph R. Wow... thanks for making assumptions. I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert in rentals, but I'm not a "newbie or don't have any deals." We've done one buyout deal (similar to a wholesale), are about to list our first full renovation flip next week, and are just finishing demo on our second flip. We also have six lots we are building new homes on in a subdivision. And, we are finishing quiet title action on three more lots that we bought at a tax lien sale and will develop once title is clear. So, that's 12 deals if you were counting.
If you bothered to actually read what I wrote, I said, "You could start the eviction process, or just offer him cash for keys..." This means that I agree that going the eviction route is a great strategy (option A), but here's an option B if you wanted to consider it. Since the eviction was being covered by others in the forum, I fleshed out option B a bit more as no one had touched on that yet. I'm certainly not trying to make her lose money or being flippant because my cash isn't on the line, I'm just explaining a second tool in the tool belt. Take it or leave it. If she's not comfortable doing it, and it sounds like she's not, that's totally fine. Option A is a great way to go!
I guess I have a different perspective, but when looking for flip deals, we walk through a lot of properties and see what happens when people leave rentals mad. Just last month, we were in a property where they punched out every single wall, then for good measure, got a broom handle to pepper the ceiling with holes. There wasn't one flat service that didn't have the imprint of a boot, fist, or broom handle in the drywall. They also stole the AC condenser unit outside. People pour concrete down the toilets to ruin the plumbing or overflow the bathtub to flood the house. In the flipping business, this is our reality. Sure, the judge can award the landlord damages, back rent and court costs, but if the tenant quits their job and skips town, they can't garnish their wages and may spend more in attorney fees trying to get blood from a turnip. Cash for keys gives a better shot at getting the property back in rent-ready condition vs stepping into a nightmare in cleanup and repairs while trying to chase down a tenant for what is owed. And who gives someone three weeks to move? I would say no more than four days max to get out of there.
Finally, argue with Brandon Turner over the cash-for-keys strategy, or say that he hasn't done any deals. He's an advocate for this strategy as stated in his blog: https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/cash-keys...