Hey Guys I was on another forum and Tim Gordon posted something that really struck me. He said " At this stage of the market, those who can't succeed teach." This is something that I wholeheartedly agree with and something that really fires me up. I think it is morally wrong for these gurus to take advantage of newbies and people interested in real estate when they themselves are not truly masters or successful. Usually they know just enough to sound smart, and make it appear as though they are a master or real estate mogul. I remember I attended a real estate weekend boot camp and the guru showed us his 1099 to brag and show how he made 2 million the previous year. While others were gasping and drooling over this I was examining it and saw that he made over 1.3 million from his company that sold courses and offered coaching. This was my first encounter with a "guru" and really just opened my eyes because I had been ignorant up until that point. I don't want to start throwing out names but the first person that comes to my mind is Tai Lopez. These are the people who have literally become famous from these corny, sleezy ads where they rent nice cars and houses to impress and trick people. I was wanting you guys input/opinion on why you think they are so prevalent in today's world/market? It seems like there aren't any good guys fighting the good fight? What really upsets me the most about this, is that these gurus are the reason why REI have a bad name and are seen as con man and people trying to rob you blind. This has been something that has been on my mind lately and I'm wondering if I am the only crazy person that doesn't like them?

Some really great points made here by everyone, always appreciate a good discussion. I just had a thought and wanted to point out the biggest guru of them all. Colleges. My generation was sold the expensive college guru package WITH easy financing. The promise of a career like our parents, easy to pay back the debt. No worries. Waste of time degrees, for profit colleges, loose lending for loans that are attached for life. That was a setup from the start. There is little difference between a student with a pile of loans and that friend who lost their ass on an investment in 05'. Only one got to clear the debt on their poor investment. I remember being so skeptical of college and its actual value, the costs being so high it just didn't seem to pencil. I still went, I think a lot due to family pressure but paying for it myself helped me see this scam and avoid the high costs. We come from a culture that loves to sell a dream, a something over the rainbow. Its a constantly moving goal post and mindset in the U.S. to be the biggest, the best, the most successful... with hard work. Not much emphasis on the now or asking about the why or how when the dream is being sold.

One of my big why's for even being on here is to stand up for the little guy. I don't like seeing people getting cheated. I've been to some of the free seminars just for s&g and found them not applicable to how we do a lot of things in our state. I'd imagine its the same for a lot of areas. Even the teaser info was bogus. All I can do is try to inform here and ask questions of the figure head that stump them. Pretty funny. And don't get me started when part of the sales pitch includes the 'student's increasing cc credit lines to get even further into debt, only to get bad information. At the same time, I am a horrible teacher/instructor. Even teaching my son tween math. I am not good at laying out steps and building a foundation. I say 'wait, back up. I forgot this part' all the time. I'd also rather take a nap than take the time to ministep a course and earn SE income. Cookie cutter systems for wholesaling and tax sales do not work in all areas. The national gurus try and play the same ways in all areas of the country. The 'secrets' will cost you money or worse in some states, but why should they care? They got you to put 10s of thousands on your cc and now it's your fault you didn't take action and apply yourself. Use a local coach if you need one. Anybody who has/had a reality tv show is pretty much garbage IMO.

@Michael Guzik For the record, these guru guys you refer to really and deeply understand the human brain and how the flashy stuff gets attention. Most people in my generation [millenials] craves this shiny lifestyle (sadly or not [depending on your philosophy]). I challenge anyone reading this post to go on YouTube and offer a free real estate course without the shiny Lambo at the back with pretty girls and watch your video GO NOT VIRAL! 😲 The honest truth is most people love to "aspire" to that flashy lifestyle, giving them some hope and/or consolation. I mean how else do we explain the success of these Internet gurus. People love to be gassed (urban dictionary that, lol)! Frankly, the gurus are preying on human nature to make money just as politicians do to earn a vote, both tricksters do it scientifically well. Not surprisingly, there are equally a lot of people who can discern the noise and go after what they want and understand that nothing is free in life. People reach out to me all day about how they want to get started in real estate and those calls can take long (Note: I have a wife and baby who also needs my FaceTime). Are there some great educators [not gurus] out there charging for their time? Hmmm, yes! Professors in colleges and some really good real estate teachers charge for their time (and why not?!!). For those wondering what the difference between a real estate educator and a real estate guru is [just one (others can add to the list)]: • EDUCATOR: Actively engages and invests in real estate activities • GURUS: Flashes their successes to entice to take a specific action [buying their courses] If I go to a seminar and drop 10k with the hope that I would magically wake up the next year in a lambo with a pretty girl then I don't deserve the lambo (but maybe I deserve the girl). To conclude, I'm not sure the gurus are the only ones to be blamed here, but I think those who shell out thousands and never do anything are equally to be blamed. Ironically, all the "technical" knowledge is out here on the Internet and it is free. But free has never been sexy 🤗 NB | (I do not sell or have never sold any courses, ever)

Those who can't succeed... teach?

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

8y

well i am going to take the contrarian stand here on your post.

I agree with some of those that sell wholesaling i see as bottom barrel guys simply because the way they teach it is illegal in many states..

but others that teach basic. flipping techniques they are all real its legal and just because 400 people sign up and only about 20 will do anything with the data .. but that's all things real estate.

1.. Just look at a 3 year old thread on BP you will not recognize hardly any names.. they all came and went and did nothing.. ( granted it was free or near free)

2. 50 to 70% those that try licensed real estate sales burn out in 1 to 3 years.. that's a fact.

3. 95% of those that take wholesaling how to course burn out and never do anything.. and probably 80% of those that buy direct mail and launch those themselves never do anything and that could be a low number.. I see it all the time on BP HELP i got a lead.. they do the mailing and have no clue as to how to close.

4. there are those that teach how to buy notes performing or non performing.. Those are are for profit teachers as well.

Advanced training cost money.. whether its worth it to an individual is up to them.

Also keep in mind most of the BP audience is buying rentals.. as cash flow is all they want and they think being a landlord will get them to the promised land ( whatever that is) and buying rentals is about as easy as anything in real estate anyone who can fog a mirror can understand the concepts.. anyone with 20k in their pocket and a decent fico can get a loan now a days.. so yes that takes no special brain power or advanced training.

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Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

8y

The reason there are so many is because there are so many people looking to get rich quick.

Nothing immoral about what they are doing. It is simply another method to make money. Some students probably do benefit, most do not because they do not have the drive to apply the information they have been provided.

Difficult to have compassion for those looking to buy a short cut to success. Buyer beware.

6 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

8y

@Michael Guzik also for whatever reason CAR's exotics and big fancy houses seem to be something that many tag to being successful.

so the wholesaler guy has his add with his lambo his Rolls thats about the extent of it.

this stuff is ALL based on MLM stuff that was devised in the 50 to 60s and morphed into real estate space.

And for whatever reason many folks don't like to work for anyone and work in a cubical.

its hard for me as i have been a licensed RE sales person since I was 18 so been on commission my entire life..

But i look at my daughter who has little to no interest in real estate is in Senior management at Intel works in her cub but knocks down some major money at at 37 is basically set for life NO debt great house nice family and loves her work.. Managing billions of dollars

Real estate has been good to me of course its all I know but there are so many other things we can do for a living that are fruitful.. to me dealing with tenants for the rest of my life would be next to being in Prison.. HATE it. but others thats all they want to do... so its all personal choice right ?

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

8y

lastly the big guru's i know personally make 1 to 2 million per month.. they could care less what you or me or anyone on BP thinks of them LOL..

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Tim G.

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Well, you know my stance but I wanted to chime in anyhow. I see new investors who buy these courses like the rare sea turtles my Mum helps watch on the beaches of North Carolina. Can they succeed? Yes. Are the odds good? Hell no.

The folks who buy into these courses and succeed are 1 in 1000, like the sea turtle they must break past so many crazy obstacles that only the very fortunate makes it and the rest are fish food. For me, this is why I can't profit on selling a dream. It doesn't align with how I want to treat people or earn money. I don't want to win so they lose, I don't need the money that badly.

These folks who are shifting into coaching are doing so because they have bills to pay. Their lifestyle needs supporting (also I speculate they want to stay relevant and successful on social media - EGO), many flipped like maniacs for years and didn't keep a single rental. If I didn't have significant monthly cashflow coming in I would be scrambling to figure out the next hustle too.

Even BP is cashing in on this, probably more ethically but they're selling the same dream. Selling memberships and services. Where is the line in the sand on what is ethical and what isn't? I guess that's for us to decide.

19 Reply

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

8y

Ethical is subjective, every individual has a different standard.

2 Reply

Eric James

Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

The question that comes up for me is...if someone claims they are making millions on RE, why are they teaching?

9 Reply

Matt K.

Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

Like anything else in life time is money... I'm sure plenty of gurus have found it eaiser and more profitable to teach a course then hunt deals. They got people beating down the door to hand over some money...

With the ammount of posts I see people walking away from steady reliable income to become "investors" or chase a dream I'm not surprised the guru busniess is booming.

2 Reply

Josh Stack

Investor · Cramerton, NC · Member since 2017 · 336 posts · 198 votes

8y

Those who can, do. Those who can’t do, teach. Those who can’t teach, consult.

7 Reply

Omar Khan

Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

@Michael Guzik While I agree with your sentiments, one should also point out that coaching is subject to the caveat emptor principle. A fool and his money are soon parted.

It is particularly frustrating when I come across folks who promise to "double" your money in 1-2 years. Being a seasoned finance professional (CFA, M&A, the works), I laugh at such absurd claims BUT unlike the "gurus", I'm not the one making $1-2M/month (as pointed out by @Jay Hinrichs) So who's the dummy now? ;)

A certain level of common sense is needed. If the general population is willing to stop using it, why blame the gurus (this is not a justification for outright scams or material misrepresentation)?

4 Reply

Tim G.

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

I guess we can't say too much about our guru's promising a dream and selling it. America falls for that pretty often

2 Reply

Levi T.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

It’s everywhere frankly, it’s in real estate, tech, business startups.. What industry does not have “gurus” pitching classes for the clueless! A large percentage of people can’t funtion without someone telling them what to do or where to go, they need, want, hand holding. When that need is there, someone is going to fill it.

4 Reply

Michael Guzik

OP

Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes

8y

@Jay Hinrichs Hard to understand your first post but I think I understand what you are getting at. I agree that many people don't follow through when they realize how hard it really is like @Thomas S. said. They are looking for a get rich quick scheme and when they realize there isn't one they fall off. And as for the guru's of course they don't care because reputation and morals don't matter to them as I believe they should. Your reputation and business legacy is everything in my opinion.

1 Reply

Michael Guzik

OP

Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes

8y

@Tim G. Well put brother! The guru is always the winner while the investor/student is the loser. It should be a win/win but the sad truth is it isn't. I love that last question because it really does make people question their beliefs and views. My opinion is that what comes around goes around and eventually only those that are honest, reliable and ethical will be standing when all is said and done. With social media, yelp and the power a consumer has, you can only screw so many people over before you go broke and lose your customers. I never thought of BP like that but I get what you are saying. I believe that everyone knows what is right and wrong some just use the ends to justify the means and ignore their conscience.

1 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Levi T.:

It’s everywhere frankly, it’s in real estate, tech, business startups.. What industry does not have “gurus” pitching classes for the clueless! A large percentage of people can’t funtion without someone telling them what to do or where to go, they need, want, hand holding. When that need is there, someone is going to fill it.

YUP BP for whatever reason is anti any coaching.. most people I know in the industry some where some time paid for advanced training.

but when you have folks with Zero experience and who do not want to apprentice like many do and are willing to pay to get there..

Also I maybe the only one of those that posted here that has actually been to many of these events as an invited vendor.. ( I financed students purchase's of properties.)

its amazing really if you read this post you think its all a bunch of noobs doing this with no clue.

there are a large amount of veteran agents who buy these courses... I had a glass of wine with one couple a few years back he had just sold his business for multi millions and wanted to learn how to flip houses and thought the course would be the beset way to go about it.

but then there are those that run up credit cards to do it and I believe that's a fool hardy thing to do and if there is anything I disapprove of the teaching industry is how they encourage that.

but then I look at hewlit Packard started with a 15k loan and a garage in Palo Alto.. so who are we to crush some folks dreams right ?

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Michael Guzik

OP

Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes

8y

@Thomas S. I think that's one of the many problems my friend ethical shouldn't be subjective. It usually is clear cut but today's media and society likes to muddy the waters and live in the grey area. Just because others say it's okay doesn't mean it is okay that's what my dad always told me and he's right.

@Eric James I agree brother! If they are so rich and successful why are they wasting their time with newbies? I guess it's because they have so much compassion for helping others and are doing it out of the kindness of their heart lol.

1 Reply

Michael Guzik

OP

Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes

8y

@Matt K. That is true with the increase in real estate investors there is an increase in demand for "teachers".

@Josh Stack So very true my friend! I don't know who said that first but they were right on! I was trying to remember the exact quote for my post but I had a brain fart.

@Omar Khan I see your point brother. Kind of go's along the lines of if it ain't broke don't fix it. I agree though since they don't care about taking advantage of others what is there to stop them from being millionaire teachers?

0 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

8y

@Michael Guzik does not matter you can give the information away.. its never a win win.. some folks will never do well in real estate , again just look at all the wanna be 's on BP that will never do anything.. Other than buying a rental home which takes no particular skills..

you don't see guru's selling how to buy a rental home..

its wholesaler and flipping and notes etc etc.. that are little more complicated.

but look at BP one of the pod cast above.

NO time NO money NO game you too can do it.. BP does the very same thing as Tim pointed out.

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Michael Guzik

OP

Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes

8y

@Levi T. I agree man. I had a good conversation with one of my friends about where this need/dependency on teachers comes from and was wondering your thoughts?

1 Reply

Levi T.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs: