Those who can't succeed... teach?

113 Replies

Hey Guys I was on another forum and Tim Gordon posted something that really struck me. He said " At this stage of the market, those who can't succeed teach." This is something that I wholeheartedly agree with and something that really fires me up. I think it is morally wrong for these gurus to take advantage of newbies and people interested in real estate when they themselves are not truly masters or successful. Usually they know just enough to sound smart, and make it appear as though they are a master or real estate mogul. I remember I attended a real estate weekend boot camp and the guru showed us his 1099 to brag and show how he made 2 million the previous year. While others were gasping and drooling over this I was examining it and saw that he made over 1.3 million from his company that sold courses and offered coaching. This was my first encounter with a "guru" and really just opened my eyes because I had been ignorant up until that point. I don't want to start throwing out names but the first person that comes to my mind is Tai Lopez. These are the people who have literally become famous from these corny, sleezy ads where they rent nice cars and houses to impress and trick people. I was wanting you guys input/opinion on why you think they are so prevalent in today's world/market? It seems like there aren't any good guys fighting the good fight? What really upsets me the most about this, is that these gurus are the reason why REI have a bad name and are seen as con man and people trying to rob you blind. This has been something that has been on my mind lately and I'm wondering if I am the only crazy person that doesn't like them?

well i am going to take the contrarian stand here on your post.

I agree with some of those that sell wholesaling i see as bottom barrel guys simply because the way they teach it is illegal in many states.. 

but others that teach basic. flipping techniques they are all real its legal  and just because 400 people sign up and only about 20 will do anything with the data  .. but that's all things real estate.

1.. Just look at a 3 year old thread on BP you will not recognize hardly any names.. they all came and went and did nothing.. ( granted it was free or near free)

2. 50 to 70% those that try licensed real estate sales burn out in 1 to 3 years.. that's a fact.

3. 95% of those that take wholesaling how to course burn out and never do anything.. and probably 80% of those that buy direct mail and launch those themselves never do anything and that could be a low number.. I see it all the time on BP HELP i got a lead.. they do the mailing and have no clue as to how to close.

4. there are those that teach how to buy notes performing or  non performing.. Those are are for profit teachers as well.

Advanced training cost money.. whether its worth it to an individual is up to them.

Also keep in mind most of the BP audience is buying rentals.. as cash flow is all they want and they think being a landlord will get them to the promised land ( whatever that is) and buying rentals is about as easy as anything in real estate anyone who can fog a mirror can understand the concepts.. anyone with 20k in their pocket and a decent fico can get a loan now a days.. so yes that takes no special brain power or advanced training.

The reason there are so many is because there are so many people looking to get rich quick.

Nothing immoral about what they are doing. It is simply another method to make money. Some students probably do benefit, most do not because they do not have the drive to apply the information they have been provided. 

Difficult to have compassion for those looking to buy a short cut to success. Buyer beware. 

@Michael Guzik   also for whatever reason CAR's  exotics and big fancy houses seem to be something that many tag to being successful.

so the wholesaler guy has his add with his lambo his Rolls  thats about the extent of it.

this stuff is ALL based on MLM stuff that was devised in the 50 to 60s and morphed into real estate space. 

And for whatever reason many folks don't like to work for anyone and work in a cubical. 

its hard for me as i have been a licensed RE sales person since I was 18 so been on commission my entire life.. 

But i look at my daughter who has little to no interest in real estate is in Senior management at Intel works in her cub  but knocks down some major money at at 37 is basically set for life NO debt  great house nice family and loves her work.. Managing billions of dollars 

Real estate has been good to me of course its all I know but there are so many other things we can do for a living that are fruitful.. to me dealing with tenants for the rest of my life would be next to being in Prison.. HATE it.  but others thats all they want to do... so its all personal choice right ?

lastly the big guru's i know personally make 1 to 2 million per month.. they could care less what you or me or anyone on BP thinks of them  LOL..

Well, you know my stance but I wanted to chime in anyhow. I see new investors who buy these courses like the rare sea turtles my Mum helps watch on the beaches of North Carolina. Can they succeed? Yes. Are the odds good? Hell no. 

The folks who buy into these courses and succeed are 1 in 1000, like the sea turtle they must break past so many crazy obstacles that only the very fortunate makes it and the rest are fish food. For me, this is why I can't profit on selling a dream. It doesn't align with how I want to treat people or earn money. I don't want to win so they lose, I don't need the money that badly. 

These folks who are shifting into coaching are doing so because they have bills to pay. Their lifestyle needs supporting (also I speculate they want to stay relevant and successful on social media - EGO), many flipped like maniacs for years and didn't keep a single rental. If I didn't have significant monthly cashflow coming in I would be scrambling to figure out the next hustle too. 

Even BP is cashing in on this, probably more ethically but they're selling the same dream. Selling memberships and services. Where is the line in the sand on what is ethical and what isn't? I guess that's for us to decide. 

Ethical is subjective, every individual has a different standard.

The question that comes up for me is...if someone claims they are making millions on RE, why are they teaching? 

Like anything else in life time is money... I'm sure plenty of gurus have found it eaiser and more profitable to teach a course then hunt deals. They got people beating down the door to hand over some money...

With the ammount of posts I see people walking away from steady reliable income to become "investors" or chase a dream I'm not surprised the guru busniess is booming. 

Those who can, do. Those who can’t do, teach. Those who can’t teach, consult. 

@Michael Guzik While I agree with your sentiments, one should also point out that coaching is subject to the caveat emptor principle. A fool and his money are soon parted. 

It is particularly frustrating when I come across folks who promise to "double" your money in 1-2 years. Being a seasoned finance professional (CFA, M&A, the works), I laugh at such absurd claims BUT unlike the "gurus", I'm not the one making $1-2M/month (as pointed out by @Jay Hinrichs ) So who's the dummy now? ;)

A certain level of common sense is needed. If the general population is willing to stop using it, why blame the gurus (this is not a justification for outright scams or material misrepresentation)?

I guess we can't say too much about our guru's promising a dream and selling it. America falls for that pretty often

It’s everywhere frankly, it’s in real estate, tech, business startups.. What industry does not have “gurus” pitching classes for the clueless! A large percentage of people can’t funtion without someone telling them what to do or where to go, they need, want, hand holding. When that need is there, someone is going to fill it.

@Jay Hinrichs Hard to understand your first post but I think I understand what you are getting at. I agree that many people don't follow through when they realize how hard it really is like @Thomas S. said. They are looking for a get rich quick scheme and when they realize there isn't one they fall off. And as for the guru's of course they don't care because reputation and morals don't matter to them as I believe they should. Your reputation and business legacy is everything in my opinion.

@Tim Gordon Well put brother! The guru is always the winner while the investor/student is the loser. It should be a win/win but the sad truth is it isn't. I love that last question because it really does make people question their beliefs and views. My opinion is that what comes around goes around and eventually only those that are honest, reliable and ethical will be standing when all is said and done. With social media, yelp and the power a consumer has, you can only screw so many people over before you go broke and lose your customers. I never thought of BP like that but I get what you are saying. I believe that everyone knows what is right and wrong some just use the ends to justify the means and ignore their conscience. 

Originally posted by @Levi T. :

It’s everywhere frankly, it’s in real estate, tech, business startups.. What industry does not have “gurus” pitching classes for the clueless! A large percentage of people can’t funtion without someone telling them what to do or where to go, they need, want, hand holding. When that need is there, someone is going to fill it.

YUP  BP for whatever reason is anti any coaching.. most people I know in the industry some where some time paid for advanced training.

but when you have folks with Zero experience and who do not want to apprentice like many do and are willing to pay to get there..

Also I maybe the only one of those that posted here that has actually been to many of these events as an invited vendor.. ( I financed students purchase's of properties.)

its amazing really if you read this post you think its all a bunch of noobs doing this with no clue.

there are a large amount of veteran agents who buy these courses... I had a glass of wine with one couple a few years back he had just sold his business for multi millions and wanted to learn how to flip houses and thought the course would be the beset way to go about it.

but then there are those that run up credit cards to do it and I believe that's a fool hardy thing to do and if there is anything I disapprove of the teaching industry is how they encourage that.

but then I look at hewlit Packard  started with a 15k loan and a garage in Palo Alto..  so who are we to crush some folks dreams right ? 

@Thomas S. I think that's one of the many problems my friend ethical shouldn't be subjective. It usually is clear cut but today's media and society likes to muddy the waters and live in the grey area. Just because others say it's okay doesn't mean it is okay that's what my dad always told me and he's right.

@Eric James I agree brother! If they are so rich and successful why are they wasting their time with newbies? I guess it's because they have so much compassion for helping others and are doing it out of the kindness of their heart lol.

@Matt K. That is true with the increase in real estate investors there is an increase in demand for "teachers". 

@Josh Stack So very true my friend! I don't know who said that first but they were right on! I was trying to remember the exact quote for my post but I had a brain fart.

@Omar Khan I see your point brother. Kind of go's along the lines of if it ain't broke don't fix it. I agree though since they don't care about taking advantage of others what is there to stop them from being millionaire teachers?

@Michael Guzik   does not matter you can give the information away.. its never a win win.. some folks will never do well in real estate , again just look at all the wanna be 's on BP that will never do anything..  Other than buying a rental home which takes no particular skills.. 

you don't see guru's selling how to buy a rental home.. 

its wholesaler and flipping and notes etc etc.. that are little more complicated.

but look at BP one of the pod cast above.

NO time NO money NO game you too can do it.. BP does the very same thing as Tim pointed out.

@Levi T. I agree man. I had a good conversation with one of my friends about where this need/dependency on teachers comes from and was wondering your thoughts?

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Levi T.:

It’s everywhere frankly, it’s in real estate, tech, business startups.. What industry does not have “gurus” pitching classes for the clueless! A large percentage of people can’t funtion without someone telling them what to do or where to go, they need, want, hand holding. When that need is there, someone is going to fill it.

YUP  BP for whatever reason is anti any coaching.. most people I know in the industry some where some time paid for advanced training.

but when you have folks with Zero experience and who do not want to apprentice like many do and are willing to pay to get there..

Also I maybe the only one of those that posted here that has actually been to many of these events as an invited vendor.. ( I financed students purchase's of properties.)

its amazing really if you read this post you think its all a bunch of noobs doing this with no clue.

there are a large amount of veteran agents who buy these courses... I had a glass of wine with one couple a few years back he had just sold his business for multi millions and wanted to learn how to flip houses and thought the course would be the beset way to go about it.

but then there are those that run up credit cards to do it and I believe that's a fool hardy thing to do and if there is anything I disapprove of the teaching industry is how they encourage that.

but then I look at hewlit Packard  started with a 15k loan and a garage in Palo Alto..  so who are we to crush some folks dreams right ? 

 Dreams are like hobbies, everyone gots one! 

Some have the brains and drive to turn their dream into a reality, others just like taking courses because it’s something to do, I guess. Not my cup of tea, I like to choose my own adventure and forge my own way.

I sat through one of these guru seminars for the "free" session, and it was a hard sell. Not much useful information, but promises to give more if you buy into the next session. Of course, there was a next session, and next, and next. Though I did not know much at the time, something in me just did not feel right. Trust your instincts. 

I just went out there and did it on my own. Made a few mistakes and learned along the way. Bigger Pockets gives more than enough information for free. 

I saw Dean Cain as a spokes person for flipping homes the other night. If Superman, starts selling seminars, I think the market may have reached its peak. The term "euphoria" comes to mind when everyone starts getting into real estate. 

Terry

Originally posted by @Michael Guzik :

@Matt K. That is true with the increase in real estate investors there is an increase in demand for "teachers". 

@Josh Stack So very true my friend! I don't know who said that first but they were right on! I was trying to remember the exact quote for my post but I had a brain fart.

@Omar Khan I see your point brother. Kind of go's along the lines of if it ain't broke don't fix it. I agree though since they don't care about taking advantage of others what is there to stop them from being millionaire teachers?

 A level of personal responsibility and common sense must be exercised.

Liars, fake gurus and mentors should not given a pass. But neither should 40 year olds who pay 20-50k to get the "inside scoop" on all the "hot" deals. Frankly, if you're that old and that stupid, why blame a guru?

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Michael Guzik   does not matter you can give the information away.. its never a win win.. some folks will never do well in real estate , again just look at all the wanna be 's on BP that will never do anything..  Other than buying a rental home which takes no particular skills.. 

you don't see guru's selling how to buy a rental home.. 

And yet, people screw up buying rentals all the time. Overpaying, getting emotionally attached to a property, getting screwed by an out of state turnkey provider, etc. I hear there are even landlords who will let tenants with a sob story rent for free, lol.

Originally posted by @Eric James :
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Michael Guzik   does not matter you can give the information away.. its never a win win.. some folks will never do well in real estate , again just look at all the wanna be 's on BP that will never do anything..  Other than buying a rental home which takes no particular skills.. 

you don't see guru's selling how to buy a rental home.. 

And yet, people screw up buying rentals all the time. Overpaying, getting emotionally attached to a property, getting screwed by an out of state turnkey provider, etc. I hear there are even landlords who will let tenants with a sob story rent for free, lol.

 Touche ‘.  Difference is it does not affect my financial position. To me it’s just another form of charity.  Forgiving rent that is.  One of mr specialties 

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