I spent $33,836 renovating this apartment unit.

Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes

I spent $33,836 renovating this unit.

Here's the breakdown:

-Quartz Countertops: $3,500
-Heat Pump System: $5,500
-SS Appliances: $1,773
-LVP 20 MIL Flooring: $4,406
-White Shaker Cabinets: $4,000
-Washer & Dyer: $400
-Bathroom accessories, ceiling fans, black matte fixtures, toilets, light fixtures, faucets, etc. : $2,347
-Paint, all new doors, plumbing fixtures, drywall work, garbage disposal, carpet, bathtub: $3,934
-Labor: $7,976

The previous owner did not do any updates to this unit for the last 25 years!

My goal here was to replace all major components and renovate to a premium level finish in order to charge market rent.

By installing high quality finishes, I am setting this property up to be a low maintenance long term hold 📈

What kind of renovation costs are you currently spending on your properties?

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Steve K.

Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes

Quote from @Sebastian Bennett:

@Shango Collier Why in the world do you want a referral on a contractor who clearly overcharged for the materials based on what was written in this post? Setting aside what you say is drama there should be a number of red flats regardless. Not one person has stepped in to confirm the pricing seems to be in line with industry expectations.

Pricing is on the high side for sure. The counter tops cost more than I just spent on counter tops for my own home. This looks like a 700 or 800 square foot apartment to me, not a million dollar home. $34k is a lot of $ to spend on a rental unit rehab.Whoever owns this property, (it's unclear if it's actually OP's or not from the comments...?) is going to lose a lot of money unless they can get rehab costs way down. Even if you can raise rents by $1,000/mo after this, it'll take 3 years just to break even on this "renovation". But there's no guarantee that the next set of tenants won't beat this place up all over again, sending the owner back to square one, which is why you don't spend $34k to turn an apartment. I probably would have spent $10-15k max on this unit turn. An 800ft2 unit rents for $2,500-5k/mo. in my market, so I could make the numbers work up to $15k. A good rule of thumb is a unit turn shouldn't cost more than 2-3 months rent, or you'll end up losing money over time for sure. The only way I'd be able to justify spending $34k for a unit turn would be if it was in a super high-end luxury market, renting for at least $10k/month. Perhaps the most classic beginner mistake we see in the biz is first-timers over-improving a rental property like crazy, putting in finishes that they'd like for their own home, “renovating" instead of rehabbing. Homeowner's fixing up a historical property for themselves to live in "renovate". Landlords and investors REHAB.

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Melanie P.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
2y
Quote from @Justin Goodin:

Quote from @Melanie P.:

Quote from @Justin Goodin:

Quote from @Sebastian Bennett:

@Justin Goodin It's not a matter of proving anything. I just find it odd you can't bring yourself to say you do or do not own certain properties. @Melanie P. Kudos to you for calling this out. There's no reason to mislead anyone on this website.

Do your due diligence then and expose me. What are you waiting for? Post your findings right here…
Thought so. Anyways, good luck on buying your first rental in 2024 😬

Quite a snarky response from someone who has their hand out here for investor dollars, but cannot rise to comment on what deals they actually were or were not involved in, what their involvement was in the deals they claim to be involved in (including in this very thread) and what properties on their company's "portfolio" page are actually owned by that company.
What we do know about you is that you and your firm claim credit for projects that appear to be the work of others. The project in THIS THREAD appears to be one of Kent Ritter's projects. I have reached out to Kent twice for his feedback on your involvement or lack thereof and he has provided none. You are unable to unwilling to clarify your role.
I wonder if anyone has sent you money, what they received for that money, given that neither you nor your firm have any verifiable real estate investments to your credit. Perhaps a thread should be started for those "investors" to share their experiences.

The lack of information and credibility you have is very comical. I wish you the best of luck and thanks for spending so much time following me! Thanks for the support!

You bet, Justin! Support is what this community is all about. When I'm not chatting here I'm working overtime to arrange complimentary transportation to get you to court and should you have pending business there secure lodging near the courthouse with complimentary shuttle service on any court dates!
I'm thankful you decided to bring yourself to my attention.
0 Reply
Justin Goodin
OP
Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes
2y

The lack of information and credibility you have is very comical. I wish you the best of luck and thanks for spending so much time following me! Thanks for the support!

You bet, Justin! Support is what this community is all about. When I'm not chatting here I'm working overtime to arrange complimentary transportation to get you to court and should you have pending business there secure lodging near the courthouse with complimentary shuttle service on any court dates!
I'm thankful you decided to bring yourself to my attention.

Sounds good! I’m glad you are my biggest fan.
Why don’t you come to Indianapolis and I’ll let you tour EVERY property on my website. And I’ll show you the ownership docs where it has my % of ownership on each. We will even sit down and do an in person interview where I will answer all of your questions live. Then we can post that video here to prove how stupid you really are. Do you accept my offer? Didn’t think so. You will continue to sit behind your keyboard, hide your last name, hide your profile pic, and make claims you know nothing about. If that’s not shady and being a coward, idk what is.
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Melanie P.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
2y
Quote from @Justin Goodin:

The lack of information and credibility you have is very comical. I wish you the best of luck and thanks for spending so much time following me! Thanks for the support!

You bet, Justin! Support is what this community is all about. When I'm not chatting here I'm working overtime to arrange complimentary transportation to get you to court and should you have pending business there secure lodging near the courthouse with complimentary shuttle service on any court dates!
I'm thankful you decided to bring yourself to my attention.

Sounds good! I’m glad you are my biggest fan.
Why don’t you come to Indianapolis and I’ll let you tour EVERY property on my website. And I’ll show you the ownership docs where it has my % of ownership on each. We will even sit down and do an in person interview where I will answer all of your questions live. Then we can post that video here to prove how stupid you really are. Do you accept my offer? Didn’t think so. You will continue to sit behind your keyboard, hide your last name, hide your profile pic, and make claims you know nothing about. If that’s not shady and being a coward, idk what is.

I'm not asking people here for money, or anything else. You use this as a lead source and have admitted BiggerPockets is in fact your largest lead source for new investor money on podcasts.

I commend you for finally admitting you own small percentages of properties you list on your company's "Portfolio" page and write about here. When you say "I spent," "we closed on," "my team," and create graphics that say "closed" and have your company logo as the ONLY logo on the CLOSED announcement it is to give the impression that you wholly own those properties or were at a minimum the "sponsor." The appropriate next step would be to update your website to reflect the percentages owned and whether those are as a LP or GP and were they from a capital investment or the "fees" you received for bundling/referring third party investors into those deals.

This thread deals with renovations at Windmill Apartments - what's your percentage there, how'd you acquire it, LP or GP?

Thank you for the invitation to Indianapolis. I may take you up on it.
2 Reply
Justin Goodin
OP
Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes
2y
Quote from @Melanie P.:

Quote from @Justin Goodin:

The lack of information and credibility you have is very comical. I wish you the best of luck and thanks for spending so much time following me! Thanks for the support!

You bet, Justin! Support is what this community is all about. When I'm not chatting here I'm working overtime to arrange complimentary transportation to get you to court and should you have pending business there secure lodging near the courthouse with complimentary shuttle service on any court dates!
I'm thankful you decided to bring yourself to my attention.

Sounds good! I’m glad you are my biggest fan.
Why don’t you come to Indianapolis and I’ll let you tour EVERY property on my website. And I’ll show you the ownership docs where it has my % of ownership on each. We will even sit down and do an in person interview where I will answer all of your questions live. Then we can post that video here to prove how stupid you really are. Do you accept my offer? Didn’t think so. You will continue to sit behind your keyboard, hide your last name, hide your profile pic, and make claims you know nothing about. If that’s not shady and being a coward, idk what is.

I'm not asking people here for money, or anything else. You use this as a lead source and have admitted BiggerPockets is in fact your largest lead source for new investor money on podcasts.
I commend you for finally admitting you own small percentages of properties you list on your company's "Portfolio" page and write about here. When you say "I spent," "we closed on," "my team," and create graphics that say "closed" and have your company logo as the ONLY logo on the CLOSED announcement it is to give the impression that you wholly own those properties or were at a minimum the "sponsor." I commend you for taking a major step and finally admitting that is not the case. The appropriate next step would be to update your website to reflect the percentages owned and whether those are as a LP or GP and were they from a capital investment or the "fees" you received for bundling/referring third party investors into those deals.
This thread deals with renovations at Windmill Apartments - what's your percentage there, how'd you acquire it, LP or GP?
Thank you for the invitation to Indianapolis. I may take you up on it.

Melanie you’re a coward. I’ve worked really hard to get to where I’m at.
I think your profile page is completely blank for a reason - You haven’t accomplished anything in your life. You sit behind your keyboard and make false accusations under a false name.
I’m not going to entertain your comments anymore. Let me know when you want to get on video and we can clear all of this up for good. 😊
0 Reply
Melanie P.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
2y
Quote from @Justin Goodin:

I think your profile page is completely blank for a reason - You haven’t accomplished anything in your life. You sit behind your keyboard and make false accusations under a false name.
I’m not going to entertain your comments anymore. Let me know when you want to get on video and we can clear all of this up for good. 😊
Justin, If people are recognizing you based on false and inflated statements you put out on the Internet are you really anywhere at all?
I appreciate that it is hard to get started in life and you are very young, but that does not excuse creating a false impression online to induce potential investors to "connect" with you. I suppose on some level you think you cannot share the true details because others will copy what you did instead of using you to invest their money. But the truth is very few to no potential investors could duplicate what you've put together, even on their best most motivated days.
The fact is that you do have much to be proud of - so why not tell the truth and see if you can raise just as much anyway? If you were merely inexperienced I might mention that, but it's not something to harp on. It's the continual dishonesty, which is illegal in your chosen field, and when you're caught the tendency to deflect and not answer reasonable questions which clarify something that is very material to the people you are actually here to reach.
This thread is supposed to be about Windmill Apartments. So let's have it - percentage owned? LP or GP? Obtained through capital investment or "bundling fees?" The best and fastest way to ensure nobody is misled is with a full and honest public disclosure in the same forum where the misstatements were transmitted. This is your opportunity to do that.
5 Reply
Sebastian Bennett
Investor · Bucks County · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 156 votes
2y
@Justin Goodin No body cares enough to come inspect physical copies of your partnership agreements and you know that. For all we know you are an LP who owns 1% of these properties ownership structures or you are someone who helped raise money for a GP and in return was awarded the "co-gp" title even though no bank will ever accept your signature because your balance sheet isn't sufficient. Nevertheless you go out of your way to create the impression you are more involved than you are and suspect you use this to raise money from investors. In my books that's misleading but you know how to use your words to neither deny or confirm what anyone suspects of you though these forums and that's your gift.
2 Reply
Shango Collier
Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 81 posts · 13 votes
2y
Aside from all the drama in the thread; may I ask who was the contractor for this project? You can inbox me. I’m a real person and would just like to know without being notified of this post pertaining to things I’m not interested in.
2 Reply
Justin Goodin
OP
Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes
2y
Quote from @Shango Collier:

Aside from all the drama in the thread; may I ask who was the contractor for this project? You can inbox me. I’m a real person and would just like to know without being notified of this post pertaining to things I’m not interested in.

Sure! Send me a DM. Happy to chat.
1 Reply
Sebastian Bennett
Investor · Bucks County · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 156 votes
2y
@Shango Collier Why in the world do you want a referral on a contractor who clearly overcharged for the materials based on what was written in this post? Setting aside what you say is drama there should be a number of red flats regardless. Not one person has stepped in to confirm the pricing seems to be in line with industry expectations.
4 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Justin Goodin:

Quote from @Shango Collier:

Aside from all the drama in the thread; may I ask who was the contractor for this project? You can inbox me. I’m a real person and would just like to know without being notified of this post pertaining to things I’m not interested in.

Sure! Send me a DM. Happy to chat.

Hi Justin I think folks just wanna know if one is GP,co-GP,LP or the contractor LOL

As of the cost being spent, I bet the cost is in higher side. So how is your actual T12 performing after the rehabs ? is there improvement on DSCR ? is the project cost following the sales pitch ?

One thing I don't understand in typical multifamily rehab is when you can rehab all properties all at once because it's occupied 90% at the same.
1 Reply
Kyle Poirier
Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 17 votes
2y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Justin Goodin:

Quote from @Shango Collier:

Aside from all the drama in the thread; may I ask who was the contractor for this project? You can inbox me. I’m a real person and would just like to know without being notified of this post pertaining to things I’m not interested in.

Sure! Send me a DM. Happy to chat.

Hi Justin I think folks just wanna know if one is GP,co-GP,LP or the contractor LOL

As of the cost being spent, I bet the cost is in higher side. So how is your actual T12 performing after the rehabs ? is there improvement on DSCR ? is the project cost following the sales pitch ?

One thing I don't understand in typical multifamily rehab is when you can rehab all properties all at once because it's occupied 90% at the same.
Carlos - if all units are renovated at once that means that the property is most-likey vacant. Most properties considered stabilized are at least 85% occupied. Renovations on stabilized properties are usually scheduled in-sync lease turnovers.
2 Reply
Steve K.
Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Sebastian Bennett:

@Shango Collier Why in the world do you want a referral on a contractor who clearly overcharged for the materials based on what was written in this post? Setting aside what you say is drama there should be a number of red flats regardless. Not one person has stepped in to confirm the pricing seems to be in line with industry expectations.

Pricing is on the high side for sure. The counter tops cost more than I just spent on counter tops for my own home. This looks like a 700 or 800 square foot apartment to me, not a million dollar home. $34k is a lot of $ to spend on a rental unit rehab.Whoever owns this property, (it's unclear if it's actually OP's or not from the comments...?) is going to lose a lot of money unless they can get rehab costs way down. Even if you can raise rents by $1,000/mo after this, it'll take 3 years just to break even on this "renovation". But there's no guarantee that the next set of tenants won't beat this place up all over again, sending the owner back to square one, which is why you don't spend $34k to turn an apartment. I probably would have spent $10-15k max on this unit turn. An 800ft2 unit rents for $2,500-5k/mo. in my market, so I could make the numbers work up to $15k. A good rule of thumb is a unit turn shouldn't cost more than 2-3 months rent, or you'll end up losing money over time for sure. The only way I'd be able to justify spending $34k for a unit turn would be if it was in a super high-end luxury market, renting for at least $10k/month. Perhaps the most classic beginner mistake we see in the biz is first-timers over-improving a rental property like crazy, putting in finishes that they'd like for their own home, “renovating" instead of rehabbing. Homeowner's fixing up a historical property for themselves to live in "renovate". Landlords and investors REHAB.
9 Reply
Jillian Bibbins
Member since 2022 · 3 posts · 7 votes
2y
@Steve K.
Do you have better numbers for what it should cost to renovate based on sqft? What would a 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom home cost. I know it would depends on the market but I would love to have a range just to get a better idea. I am extremely new and just trying to get better understanding numbers. Thanks in advance!
1 Reply
Evan Polaski
Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
@Steve K., while I clearly don't know your investment thesis, and I agree that nearly $34k/door, even for a fully classic unit is A LOT of money, I would argue that 2-3 month rent is generally not realistic in many markets, nor is that how I assess rehabs.
Personally, I look at potential rent increase, i.e. can I get $400/mo in additional rent by renovating this unit. $400*12 = $4,800/yr. I want 25% ROI on my money, so I can spend up to $19,200 per unit, on average.
Of course, this yield, while strong, may not move the needle enough if the overall basis on the initial acquisition is "too high", so there needs to be a current yield calculation on the whole property.

5 Reply
Melanie P.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
2y
Quote from @Jillian Bibbins:

Do you have better numbers for what it should cost to renovate based on sqft? What would a 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom home cost. I know it would depends on the market but I would love to have a range just to get a better idea. I am extremely new and just trying to get better understanding numbers. Thanks in advance!

Jillian - This is a hard nut to crack on a psf basis because every renovation has a different scope. The renovations discussed here were for small former-motel efficiency units. Not every renovation dollar is a dollar well spent. I would not have used these finishes for those units. They don't last. Many of these type tenants are very hard on the unit. Nobody expects their cheap efficiency rental in a converted motel to have quartz counter tops. Simply making it "nice builder grade" would have likely achieved the same rents.
7 Reply
Sebastian Bennett
Investor · Bucks County · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 156 votes
2y
I see this forum has been revived over the past week. Anyone find it interesting Justin has not been heard from since? For someone to have such a presence, suspicious for sure!
1 Reply
Shango Collier
Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 81 posts · 13 votes
2y
Quote from @Sebastian Bennett:

@Shango Collier Why in the world do you want a referral on a contractor who clearly overcharged for the materials based on what was written in this post? Setting aside what you say is drama there should be a number of red flats regardless. Not one person has stepped in to confirm the pricing seems to be in line with industry expectations.

I asked for my own research purposes. Why are you worried about my response?
1 Reply
Sebastian Bennett
Investor · Bucks County · Member since 2023 · 196 posts · 156 votes
2y
@Shango Collier Perhaps pick better BP forum participants to learn from! Especially those who have verifiable credential and track records!
0 Reply
Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2y
@Sebastian Bennett
I just got a price of $150k to renovate a 1100 sf home… needless to say I will not be posting pics of the renovation from that contractor here on BP
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Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Sebastian Bennett
I just got a price of $150k to renovate a 1100 sf home… needless to say I will not be posting pics of the renovation from that contractor here on BP

is this for insurance purpose ? lol
1 Reply
Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Sebastian Bennett
I just got a price of $150k to renovate a 1100 sf home… needless to say I will not be posting pics of the renovation from that contractor here on BP

is this for insurance purpose ? lol

haha I wish. my health insurance may be needed to take remove the 2x4 from a specific part of my body as that is what this contractor is trying to do to me
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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
2y
I’d be interested in finding out if the OP is raising money through a Reg D offering, relying on the general exemption for private offerings, or just raising capital and not caring about SEC compliance?
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Steve K.
Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jillian Bibbins:

@Steve K.
Do you have better numbers for what it should cost to renovate based on sqft? What would a 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom home cost. I know it would depends on the market but I would love to have a range just to get a better idea. I am extremely new and just trying to get better understanding numbers. Thanks in advance!

Sorry, just seeing this comment. There are way too many variables to answer this beyond just a wild ballpark, let’s say $10-75 per square foot but depending on the actual project, scope of work, choice of finishes etc. it could be well outside of that range on either end.
2 Reply
V.G JasonPro Member
Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
So this is a fraud, or am I missing something? Causing bragging about $35k for that makes me question it but for different reasons. This guy's always been a shmuck though, so glad Melanie is just calling out what needs to be called out. Too many charlatans on this board, and they take from the one's that are genuinely trying to make it out.
As for prices to renovate, maybe I'm lucky but $150k to renovate a 1100 sq ft home where is this? Only place I've seen such egregious, but even worse, is in SoCal and the Rockies. In other relatively bigger areas like Dallas, Houston, Raleigh, Nashville, etc, it's never that bad. ****, even Austin wasn't that bad. I just re-did a full 4/3 in Nashville back at the end of Jan--cost me $97k but it's just under 3000sq ft house. Did almost everything, besides foundation.
3 Reply
Craig Janet
Member since 2019 · 223 posts · 261 votes
2y
I don't understand the purpose of this OP. Was this to brag about the renovation cost? The place looks great but we need more information to know if it was a good investment. What was the condition before, what (if any) rent increases, before and after value, and many more. 35K on a small apartment in most situations is nothing to brag about.
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