Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for your answers!
My wife and I are just getting started in REI, and want to make sure we are off to a solid start. We're planning to form an LLC, taxed as an S-Corp. to that end, we're looking at various CPA's and attorneys in the area to help us get started. (Raleigh, NC)
My question for y’all is what questions should we be asking them? What are some good ways you know of to tell if a CPA is going to be a good fit? We have looked specifically for CPA’s that focus on real estate.
Finally, is there any validity to going with a Nevada or Wyoming LLC, specifically for a two person team aiming for 3-5 rehabs a year, starting out? It seems like more trouble than it's worth at this point.
Thanks, looking forward to your thoughts!
Aaron
Questions for an experienced, trustworthy tax accountant:
Selecting an (Asset Protection) Attorney:
@Aaron Montgomery Not sure what you plan on investing in, but my advice is to make sure that you drill down very hard on whether these professionals have experience with exactly the kind of assets you plan to buy, the debt you plan to get, etc.
Make sure that they don't just have some experience with these kinds of assets, but that they have substantial experience. Preferably, this is what they make their money on, but I would want them to derive at least 30% or more of their income from the kinds of deals you want to do.
As for LLC's the reason that some states are more preferable than others is that they are good for the managers of the LLC versus their investors. If you are just using this for asset protection, and so that you are doing business in the market through an entity rather than your personal selves (a good idea, by the way), just incorporate in your own state. You will likely save money that way. But, to be sure, you should ask your CPA what he/she thinks on the question, since they will have more familiarity with the issues in your state.
@Jonathan Twombly thanks for the reply! Great advice, especially the part about them deriving a significant portion of their income from that specific sector. I’ll try to find someone that already has several active investors on the area.
@Jonathan Twombly thanks for the reply! Great advice, especially the part about them deriving a significant portion of their income from that specific sector. I’ll try to find someone that already has several active investors on the area.
Speaking as a former lawyer, you don't want these professionals learning on your dime. Someone who already does it can do it much more efficiently and better than someone who has to learn it from scratch.
@Aaron Montgomery I recommend you reach out to Tom Smith or Brandon Hall (both located in Raleigh). Both focus on REI, and I know them both personally. Plenty of attorneys can provide advice. I use Joe Diab for entity consultations (also in Raleigh), whom I have known for years.
Questions for an experienced, trustworthy tax accountant:
Selecting an (Asset Protection) Attorney:
And here is the reasoning behind a few of the questions:
What licenses or designations do you have and how do you maintain them?
How long have you been in the tax business?
What are your fees? What is your fee schedule?
Will you represent me before the IRS?
@Adam Schneider Thanks, I'll get in touch with them about a consultation. Do you have any experience with Robert Gomez? He's also a REI focused CPA in Raleigh, seems to be well reviewed.
@Costin I. Thanks for the great, in-depth answer!
@Aaron Montgomery The only person I know named Gomez is the one on the Addams Family.
@Aaron Montgomery Sounds like the start of a very exciting REI adventure. Wish you the best of luck. Regarding LLC formation for asset protection (a must), something you may be interested in reading about is a Series LLC. It offers compartmentalization to separate your assets, pass through taxes and fees, and anonymity through land trusts. You can read more about it in a few articles I have posted here and here.
Again, best of luck!
More info on this subject - forum posts about questions to ask CPA.
I spoke with wealthbuildingcpa and she is 1 CPA who has 695 clients. Her office has interns and she seems to shift some of the 'tasks' to others in the office.
I am new to investing and looking to find a good CPA who can help me get set up, but am worried maybe she's overbooked.
So some questions:
-Is this normal for a CPA to have almost 700 clients for just one CPA?
-Whats a normal rate for a CPA to be available for consultation and questions throughout the year ( given mainly itll be the up front tax strategy planning/ entity selection)
-I've spoken to Andersen Advisors (https://andersonadvisors.com/) - Has anyone used them?
-Also looking into Scott Royal Smith- these both seem sharp and aggressive so if anyone else has spoken to both would love to know your pros/cons and experiences. Both are Texas based.
-I'll be doing AirBNB/short term rentals so would need some good asset protection as well as savvy tax strategizing given its a high cash flow business and would need to reduce down the income however possible (retirement accounts/ W2 employees/ etc).
Would love to hear any thoughts by the experts out there.
Thanks!
I have compiled a list of questions that you can select which are most pertinent to your situation:
What was the most recent CE course you took and when?
What subject is/are your academic degree(s) in?
What is your specialty (tax accounting, tax representation, etc.)
How long have you been practicing?
How many clients do you have?
What percentage of your practice today is in real estate?
Have you represented clients in front of the IRA, and what is your success rate?
Will you share a reference(s) from your current client who runs a business similar to mine?
Will you share a reference who can speak to your representation before the IRA?
How can you or your professional network help me with entity structuring, retirement/estate planning, business analysis, etc.?
Help you define the appropriate business structures, both from a legal protection and from a financial/tax perspective
Help you create a tax strategy for your business that will allow you to legally keep as much money as you possibly can
Help you make smart decisions with respect to your individual real estate investments
Prepare your annual tax returns
Recommend other team members (attorney, insurance agent, real estate agent, etc) who can help make your business a success
What are your credentials?
What services do you offer?
What areas of tax and accounting do you specialize in?
What is your background and do you personally own real estate?
How would I be able to communicate with you? Can I get questions answered by email?
Given my circumstances, what business structure(s) do you recommend? Why?
Can you register the business structures for us?
How can you help in the various phases of real estate investing (acquisition through sale)?
Do you specialize in tax strategy? Specifically geared towards real estate?
How aggressive will you be in helping us keep as much money as possible?
What tax strategies/issues should I be aware of upfront?
How often would you suggest we meet to review our progress/plan?
Do you do tax preparation?
What software do you use (and expect me to use) to do our accounting?
Can you help me find other team members (attorney, insurance agents, real estate agents, etc)?
What is your schedule of fees?
Do you have references?
Some of the questions are duplicated in here for the reason of asking them a different way for a different response.
Also here is a link to another similar discussion we had on this topic (it is some very good reading): http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/51/topics/6367...
Hey @Alex M., you spoke with the head of a tax firm, not with your future CPA. At 695 clients, the only wealth building going on is for the CPA - there are 2080 working hours in a year, divided by 695, that's 2.99 hours per client per year. I think a 1040EZ will take longer than that, nevermind a complex return with multiple investments, properties and deductions. Most likely you'll be passed to an "intern"- the answer to these questions should tell you everything you need:
The normal rate for a CPA to be available is a direct relation to how much you are willing to pay for his time. A good one will give you answers to short questions (email or phone) that will not take more 15min of his time for free. Anything more than that and you'll be charged their hourly rate. If you are lucky, if they don't know the answer, you'll not be charged for them to do the research (basically, you'll not have to pay for their education).
Andersen Advisors are very expensive. Search the forums for Andersen Advisors and Coon and you'll find plenty of mentions about interfacing with them and how that interaction went.
@Scott Smith is an asset protection lawyer - knowledgeable and fast, but not a CPA. We worked with Scott and recommend him. He might have a referral for a good CPA.
Another couple things, IMO:
I'm very curious what are the thoughts and experiences of other investors in this matter, if they agree with the above or contrary.
Hey @Alex M. is an asset protection lawyer - knowledgeable and fast, but not a CPA. We worked with Scott and recommend him. He might have a referral for a good CPA.
Another couple things, IMO:
I'm very curious what are the thoughts and experiences of other investors in this matter, if they agree with the above or contrary.
The way most accounting firms operate is that the "preparation" of the return is done by a junior employee in the firm(those with 0-4 years of experience). The return is then reviewed by a more senior person in the firm(5-15 years of experience). Then the return is reviewed again by the signing CPA/Enrolled agent.
The reviewer/signing partner should be able to catch all mistakes(if any) before it goes out to the client.
This keeps overall costs low. It would be too expensive to have a CPA with 15+ experience to prepare the return and another CPA with 15+years experience to review the return.
The CPA should save her time from preparing the return to focus on reading on new tax strategies, reading up on tax law changes, communicating with clients and getting new business.
@Basit Siddiqi - makes sense, but even then I want to know who signs my return and speak with the person who prepares my taxes. I want my CPA to be familiar (if not downright intimately familiar) with my situation, my finances, my domain of activity and my goals. Will you get that kind of attention from someone handling 695 clients? Or even 100 clients? If every year there are different people preparing my taxes, would I get "continuity" in tax strategy?
Maybe I have too high expectations and we are talking here only about tax filing preparation - like the difference between the CPA helping you improve the bottom line of your business activity and just saving you the few hours time to figure out the IRS forms in April. In which case, I still refer to "CPA is just a tool, you need to learn to use it". Or pay a lot for the convenience of ignorance.
@Basit Siddiqi - makes sense, but even then I want to know who signs my return and speak with the person who prepares my taxes. I want my CPA to be familiar (if not downright intimately familiar) with my situation, my finances, my domain of activity and my goals. Will you get that kind of attention from someone handling 695 clients? Or even 100 clients? If every year there are different people preparing my taxes, would I get "continuity" in tax strategy?
Maybe I have too high expectations and we are talking here only about tax filing preparation - like the difference between the CPA helping you improve the bottom line of your business activity and just saving you the few hours time to figure out the IRS forms in April. In which case, I still refer to "CPA is just a tool, you need to learn to use it". Or pay a lot for the convenience of ignorance.
695 clients may sound like a lot; but it ultimately depends on several factors
1) complexity of tax situations. Are they all simple clients(W-2 with no tax consulting involved or are they real estate investors who are looking for calls throughout the year).
2) Has the firm put support in place to leverage the amount of returns you can do. Is it a CPA with 1 employee with 1 year of experience working with him or does the CPA have a team of 4-5 accountants with multiple years of experience with CPA/EA credentials.
Ultimately - the amount of relation/connection you have with your CPA will depend significantly on your billings to the firm. If the firm generates 1 million in fees and your return is only $200 compared to others who are $2000+; you may get less attention(sucks but its the truth). You may benefit from working with a firm just starting out. There are actually many CPA's on BP who work with real estate investors.
Thanks for the comments.
I also feel like when I'm asked to pay an up front consultation fee before even sharing any of my information, that this is a bit unreasonable. I believe in paying for expert advice, but asking for money right off the bat before even speaking to someone in the firm to see if it's a good fit seems excessive. thoughts?
Andersen at least did not ask for my credit card information right off the bat--- even though expensive at a few grand, if they are making themselves available throughout the year and cover both CPA + Legal aspect (mostly when I speak to a CPA there's always the "well you should speak to a lawyer first" conversation) then it seems like a good deal. Their specialty in using C-Corps to create anonymity and provide the highest legal protection also appeals to me since i am doing short-term rentals which naturally have higher liability.
I like Scott Smith's group for the specialty in the Series LLC which could reduce overhead as I build the portfolio, but would be interested in hearing others' thoughts.
I plan to speak with Taylor Brugna from the Real Estate CPA this week. I only have one person who has worked with this group in the past, and it wasn't the best review because I think they ramped up really fast and maybe didn't have enough time for the individual. As I am just starting out, and @Costin I. completely agree with you that you need to do your homework and ask the right questions ( I always do this- and its great learning ) , i will definitely need a firm/ CPA who can provide the personal touch and who will build a relationship. That said, perhaps the Real Estate CPA has since taken on more staff and is able to provide this. I will see... Any other recommendations would be great. Really appreciate the comments.
I will also look around on the forums for Andersen and see what has been said.
Thanks for the comments.
I also feel like when I'm asked to pay an up front consultation fee before even sharing any of my information, that this is a bit unreasonable. I believe in paying for expert advice, but asking for money right off the bat before even speaking to someone in the firm to see if it's a good fit seems excessive. thoughts?
Andersen at least did not ask for my credit card information right off the bat--- even though expensive at a few grand, if they are making themselves available throughout the year and cover both CPA + Legal aspect (mostly when I speak to a CPA there's always the "well you should speak to a lawyer first" conversation) then it seems like a good deal. Their specialty in using C-Corps to create anonymity and provide the highest legal protection also appeals to me since i am doing short-term rentals which naturally have higher liability.
I like Scott Smith's group for the specialty in the Series LLC which could reduce overhead as I build the portfolio, but would be interested in hearing others' thoughts.
I plan to speak with Taylor Brugna from the Real Estate CPA this week. I only have one person who has worked with this group in the past, and it wasn't the best review because I think they ramped up really fast and maybe didn't have enough time for the individual. As I am just starting out, and @Costin I. completely agree with you that you need to do your homework and ask the right questions ( I always do this- and its great learning ) , i will definitely need a firm/ CPA who can provide the personal touch and who will build a relationship. That said, perhaps the Real Estate CPA has since taken on more staff and is able to provide this. I will see... Any other recommendations would be great. Really appreciate the comments.
I will also look around on the forums for Andersen and see what has been said.
Noah,
Please note this is NOT directed at you.
I would completely disagree. As an accountant, this time of year is EXTREMELY busy not just for tax returns but payroll quarterlies, adjustments entity changes and plenty more. That charge means it weeds out the tire kickers so we can spend more time focusing on our existing clients than those who want a few questions asked. I work with my clients extremely regularly and in my case I do charge a consultation fee this time of year. I apply it to their tax return charges if we continue the relationship; however, I personally am not going to waste my time answering questions for someone who is not truly interested in engaging. I would rather have 400 clients I work with regularly than to have clients I see once per year. I answer plenty here on BP and always have. A great deal of my clients come from this source. Inquire about who you want to hire in October-December. NOT in February or March that shows a lack of consideration and planning. And let me tell you people do it ALL THE TIME. But by making this change, I can thoroughly give a client some strategy information rather than half a sales pitch. There is definitely truth to "You get what you pay for". That said most of my new clientele either find me via referral or through BP where I answer a great deal of question make myself quite accessible.
Now that my rant is over. I can completely understand; however, time is money especially in my busy where I have a product that expires and has a deadline.
If someone tells you they specialize in Series LLCs I can't help but laugh. They are no different than any other LLC. Each one is treated as its own entity unless you elect to stack them via common ownership. Example A parent entity that holds 5 subsidiaries in 5 different states. You might have 6 LLCs, the parent and one for each state. They would file one tax return due to the common ownership.
@Steven Hamilton II That is great advice: "Inquire about who you want to hire in October-December. NOT in February or March that shows a lack of consideration and planning." A good CPA will be extremely busy in that Feb-April period.
The Series-LLC are no different from any other LLC from a taxation/CPA/IRS perspective. But as a legal entity, from the lawyer perspective, they are much different and require a carefully crafted formation document (not a DIY). And some lawyers don't know about Series-LLC, and I met some that bash them despite the fact they know very little about them. Noah mentioned a lawyer specialized in Series-LLC, not a CPA.
@Steven Hamilton II That is great advice: "Inquire about who you want to hire in October-December. NOT in February or March that shows a lack of consideration and planning." A good CPA will be extremely busy in that Feb-April period.
The Series-LLC are no different from any other LLC from a taxation/CPA/IRS perspective. But as a legal entity, from the lawyer perspective, they are much different and require a carefully crafted formation document (not a DIY). And some lawyers don't know about Series-LLC, and I met some that bash them despite the fact they know very little about them. Noah mentioned a lawyer specialized in Series-LLC, not a CPA.
The legal side of the series LLC will depend upon the state involved. As an example Illinois is actually quite clear on theirs. That said, some other states not so much.
Look for a CPA who is doing what you want to do.
You CPA, make sure they have a significant part of their practice dealing with REI. If not, then they will not be up to speed on all the write-offs and strategies. Just like different lawyers and doctors, you will have different CPA who focus on different sectors. Make sure they deal heavily with REI's. Different states have different operation and management requirements, and tax advantages. Talk to your CPA about tax benefits of each state to know your financial situation, BUT, also talk to you attorney about your overall plan and asset protection plan. Each state has requirements and different states offer more asset protection and options then others. For example a select few states, only 12, allow Series LLC's such as (Delaware, Nevada, Texas). They offer great asset protection and tax benefits, It really will depend on not just your now, but your growth rate and plan, and that MUST be discussed with your CPA and Lawyer before you decide. And make sure your asset protection lawyer focuses on Real Estate Investors, NOT just an estate planning attorney. Very different. Best of luck. Wish I saw this post earlier.
Hello and thank you for reading my ( weird) question. :)
I am European and I live and work as an English teacher in China. While I was living in the US ( around 3 months at the beginning of 2016) I opened a bank account in Bank of America. After I came back to China I start doing a lot of full time and part time jobs and I am saving a lot of money here. Together with my brother who is a green card holder in the US, we start investing into real estate, we bought our first duplex in Indy and we are in the procedure of searching for the second property and there is a problem.
China has very strict regulations about foreigners sending the money outside of China, we are allowed to send only 500 dollars per a day, so for example if I want to send 4000 dollars from China to my bank of America I would have to go to the bank 8 times, in 8 different days and to pay the transfer fee 8 times.
So the only way to send the money is to put for example 4000 dollars into my Chinese friend bank of China account and then he will send from his Bank of China to my Bank of America. But I am wondering what will IRS think about this transaction? I am non-resident and according to everything that I've read I shouldn't pay any tax, but this will not look like if i send the money to myself, but different Chinese people will be sending the money to me, 2000, 3000, 4000 dollars, depending how much money I was able to save and send.
So my, hopefully, interesting question for you is- is all of this ok, according to the law ? Will IRS have any problem with me depositing my money this way? And when I start investing this money, because I am working and saving and sending this money to my BoA so that I can invest into real estate together with my brother, can we have any problems with this? Can anybody from the IRS think that this is money laundering or anything like that?
Sorry for the long post and thanks again for reading.
Nikki :)
Hi Nikki, I'm an American based in Shanghai also investing in US properties from here. I'm going through some similar experiences. There is a way to send more than $500 per day, but you need to provide documents to prove your employment and taxes paid. Feel free to connect with me here on BP and WeChat (ID- troy7845) and I can share more info.