BRRRR with a 48-54 hour a week Full-Time Career

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BRRRR with a 48-54 hour a week Full-Time Career

Kyle Wagner
New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes

Good morning!

I am 25 years old, I work a full time career with a great company I plan on retiring with.  With that being said I just wanted to reach out and see what struggles people have came across with and how they overcame these struggles with working a full time job but also being able to manage a social life and being able to manage their own Real Estate goals.  The reason I am wanting to be in real estate is to be able to retire from the company ideally once I've hit my 25 years, to live financially comfortable within my means and to leave something for my family when I am gone.  With this being said things never go as planned, understandably so.

Looking at this I am not a fan of excuses and I am working on managing my time better to create more consistency with time blocking, I know it is possible to do this by working through your people you have put in place, but I am just here to learn from mistakes that other people may have made.  I am looking to build connections with people and learn from anyone I can so feel free to message me or reply to this post, any information or advice is appreciated!

Thank you,

Kyle

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Mike Dymski
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
4y

Most of us work demanding jobs and have busy families and real estate portfolios.  When I didn't have kids, it was a piece of cake.  After kids, I just wrote down what's important to me and only spend time on things in line those goals...and nothing else...all day, every day.

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  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    Most of us work demanding jobs and have busy families and real estate portfolios.  When I didn't have kids, it was a piece of cake.  After kids, I just wrote down what's important to me and only spend time on things in line those goals...and nothing else...all day, every day.

    16Reply
  • Taylor DaschBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Temple, TX · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 700 votes
    4y

    Love this question! My main struggle was that I did a LOT of reading investing books, as well as researching my market. I am a full time Firefighter as well as a Real Estate Agent. I am very comfortable with my market (ARV, competitive offers, and market rents in each area). However once I started getting into investing, I realized that I knew absolutely nothing about rehab costs as well as the time that it would take to actually find a GOOD contractor who was honest and did not try to charge you crazy labor costs, they say to get 3 quotes for each job but what if three quotes are all 75% above market rate for the job. I ended up getting around 5 quotes for my drywall job and ended up getting an amazing job for about a half of the cost of the next highest quote - some contractors will try to rip you off if they think that you are not knowledgeable on what it should cost. With just my last project(since we ended up doing a full rehab), I now have a decent idea of rehab costs.

    Also you can do as much research as you want but when you actually start taking action it is completely different IMO, you have to learn to negotiate, how to talk to people, and mainly how to help people/solve their problems. You are on a good path if you are getting in to REI at 25!

    [email protected]254-718-4249
    Taylor Dasch | EG Realty560 Reviews
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    8Reply
  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:

    Most of us work demanding jobs and have busy families and real estate portfolios.  When I didn't have kids, it was a piece of cake.  After kids, I just wrote down what's important to me and only spend time on things in line those goals...and nothing else...all day, every day.


     Was one of your biggest struggles starting out when you first started?  How did you overcome it?

    0Reply
  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Taylor Dasch:

    Love this question! My main struggle was that I did a LOT of reading investing books, as well as researching my market. I am a full time Firefighter as well as a Real Estate Agent. I am very comfortable with my market (ARV, competitive offers, and market rents in each area). However once I started getting into investing, I realized that I knew absolutely nothing about rehab costs as well as the time that it would take to actually find a GOOD contractor who was honest and did not try to charge you crazy labor costs, they say to get 3 quotes for each job but what if three quotes are all 75% above market rate for the job. I ended up getting around 5 quotes for my drywall job and ended up getting an amazing job for about a half of the cost of the next highest quote - some contractors will try to rip you off if they think that you are not knowledgeable on what it should cost. With just my last project(since we ended up doing a full rehab), I now have a decent idea of rehab costs.

    Also you can do as much research as you want but when you actually start taking action it is completely different IMO, you have to learn to negotiate, how to talk to people, and mainly how to help people/solve their problems. You are on a good path if you are getting in to REI at 25!


     Thank you for the advice!  Very helpful.

    1Reply
  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Kyle Wagner:
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:

    Most of us work demanding jobs and have busy families and real estate portfolios.  When I didn't have kids, it was a piece of cake.  After kids, I just wrote down what's important to me and only spend time on things in line those goals...and nothing else...all day, every day.


     Was one of your biggest struggles starting out when you first started?  How did you overcome it?

    I purchased a fixer for a primary residence (live in flip).  I put in some sweat equity and did some work myself, learned a little how to get rehab quoted and done, and sold tax free.

    1Reply
  • Tim DelaneyPro Member
    Buffalo, NY · Member since 2018 · 790 posts · 530 votes
    4y

    @Kyle Wagner depending on the nature of your job (do you need to be physically present at a workplace for 50hours/week?) and your income level, you may be better off with turnkey than BRRRR. Given your timeline of at least 20 years until you want to retire, even if you bought a turnkey house every other year or every year you'd have 10-20 properties.

    I think the struggle you will face with BRRRR and trying to balance a full time job and social life is time. The shortage of time is something that I always struggled with when I was getting started because of how much I worked on my other business and trying to spend as much time with my children as possible.

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  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Tim Delaney:

    @Kyle Wagner depending on the nature of your job (do you need to be physically present at a workplace for 50hours/week?) and your income level, you may be better off with turnkey than BRRRR. Given your timeline of at least 20 years until you want to retire, even if you bought a turnkey house every other year or every year you'd have 10-20 properties.

    I think the struggle you will face with BRRRR and trying to balance a full time job and social life is time. The shortage of time is something that I always struggled with when I was getting started because of how much I worked on my other business and trying to spend as much time with my children as possible.


     I appreciate the honesty.  I value my work, I truly enjoy being there and the process of it.  So in a sense of not having to be there I do not, that being said I enjoy it and typically am there 6am-6:30p sometimes 7.  I do not have kids and social life is my two days off.  I struggle with having a social life other than going to the gym.  It’s weird and has been a struggle to balance a social life, my fitness goals, and learning about real estate.  I’ve found that waking up earlier gets me a head start on the day to take advantage of time but by 9 I’m ready for bed.  It’s a weird balance already and I haven’t even gotten into any properties yet!  I will look into turn key and could really see how this is beneficial to my work/life balance.  Thank you

    0Reply
  • Jared HottleBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Cedar falls IA Waterloo, IA · Member since 2020 · 902 posts · 549 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Kyle Wagner:
    Quote from @Tim Delaney:

    @Kyle Wagner depending on the nature of your job (do you need to be physically present at a workplace for 50hours/week?) and your income level, you may be better off with turnkey than BRRRR. Given your timeline of at least 20 years until you want to retire, even if you bought a turnkey house every other year or every year you'd have 10-20 properties.

    I think the struggle you will face with BRRRR and trying to balance a full time job and social life is time. The shortage of time is something that I always struggled with when I was getting started because of how much I worked on my other business and trying to spend as much time with my children as possible.


     I appreciate the honesty.  I value my work, I truly enjoy being there and the process of it.  So in a sense of not having to be there I do not, that being said I enjoy it and typically am there 6am-6:30p sometimes 7.  I do not have kids and social life is my two days off.  I struggle with having a social life other than going to the gym.  It’s weird and has been a struggle to balance a social life, my fitness goals, and learning about real estate.  I’ve found that waking up earlier gets me a head start on the day to take advantage of time but by 9 I’m ready for bed.  It’s a weird balance already and I haven’t even gotten into any properties yet!  I will look into turn key and could really see how this is beneficial to my work/life balance.  Thank you

     @Kyle Wagner I feel you on the balancing act. I am in the same boat although I do not have kids lol so maybe not coming from the same perspective. I find my work is a little more seasonal (busier in summer) this winter I took on a few BRRR properties and we are finishing them up just in time for the busy rental season so that worked out well. Not sure if this would work for you but I noticed I had way less social life or social pressure during the winter because everyone has overspent for the holidays or its too cold to do anything. So maybe target a slower season in your W-2 for a BRRR.

    I have found I am way more productive when I wake up early, workout and follow a small morning routine and it really sets my day up nicely sounds like you are doing that but it is great. this also leads me to going to sleep earlier or working on less brain intensive tasks later in the day so there is a trade-off.

    I think having a job that takes that many hours can be taxing but see if you can flip it on its head. Is it required you work that much or are you putting those restraints on yourself? What competitive advantages does your w-2 provide (any co-workers who are handy that can assist in your BRRR for a wage? any building materials you can get free that are scrap or cheap? If you are front-end is there any relationships you have made you can leverage or can you get a chance to drive for dollars while on a sales call?)

    Lastly, can you sacrifice some social life now for freedom later. It does not have to be one or the other but if you give up 3 months of weekends you should be able to finish a BRRR in that time. Maybe just do 1 a year for now but that way you can make a sacrifice for the future but also live now. Hope that helps!

    [email protected]319-288-5382
    Jared Hottle Real Estate59 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Malcomb StapelPro Member
    Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2020 · 669 posts · 488 votes
    4y

    @Kyle Wagner  are you rehabbing the property yourself? If so, your going to burn both of your two days and two nights off a week working on that property. Also, sometimes you have to get way out of balance to push past obstacles and get what you want. The skill is being aware of it and returning to balance so as not to burn yourself out. 

    0Reply
  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Malcomb Stapel:

    @Kyle Wagner  are you rehabbing the property yourself? If so, your going to burn both of your two days and two nights off a week working on that property. Also, sometimes you have to get way out of balance to push past obstacles and get what you want. The skill is being aware of it and returning to balance so as not to burn yourself out. 


     My apologies I was not clear on my intent in this.. I currently do not have a property. I am looking to where people have struggled and where I can learn from before I do get into the process. I just have a few loose ends to tie before I do. I am highly considering not doing the rehab myself but I also understand the rising in costs during this time and how that could dip into equity quite a bit.  Although I will not fully understand until I take action and make mistakes along the way to learn from. Thank you for the advice on staying aware throughout the time . It will be a lot of give and take during the process and balancing I could imagine.

    0Reply
  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jared Hottle:
    Quote from @Kyle Wagner:
    Quote from @Tim Delaney:

    @Kyle Wagner depending on the nature of your job (do you need to be physically present at a workplace for 50hours/week?) and your income level, you may be better off with turnkey than BRRRR. Given your timeline of at least 20 years until you want to retire, even if you bought a turnkey house every other year or every year you'd have 10-20 properties.

    I think the struggle you will face with BRRRR and trying to balance a full time job and social life is time. The shortage of time is something that I always struggled with when I was getting started because of how much I worked on my other business and trying to spend as much time with my children as possible.


     I appreciate the honesty.  I value my work, I truly enjoy being there and the process of it.  So in a sense of not having to be there I do not, that being said I enjoy it and typically am there 6am-6:30p sometimes 7.  I do not have kids and social life is my two days off.  I struggle with having a social life other than going to the gym.  It’s weird and has been a struggle to balance a social life, my fitness goals, and learning about real estate.  I’ve found that waking up earlier gets me a head start on the day to take advantage of time but by 9 I’m ready for bed.  It’s a weird balance already and I haven’t even gotten into any properties yet!  I will look into turn key and could really see how this is beneficial to my work/life balance.  Thank you

     @Kyle Wagner I feel you on the balancing act. I am in the same boat although I do not have kids lol so maybe not coming from the same perspective. I find my work is a little more seasonal (busier in summer) this winter I took on a few BRRR properties and we are finishing them up just in time for the busy rental season so that worked out well. Not sure if this would work for you but I noticed I had way less social life or social pressure during the winter because everyone has overspent for the holidays or its too cold to do anything. So maybe target a slower season in your W-2 for a BRRR.

    I have found I am way more productive when I wake up early, workout and follow a small morning routine and it really sets my day up nicely sounds like you are doing that but it is great. this also leads me to going to sleep earlier or working on less brain intensive tasks later in the day so there is a trade-off.

    I think having a job that takes that many hours can be taxing but see if you can flip it on its head. Is it required you work that much or are you putting those restraints on yourself? What competitive advantages does your w-2 provide (any co-workers who are handy that can assist in your BRRR for a wage? any building materials you can get free that are scrap or cheap? If you are front-end is there any relationships you have made you can leverage or can you get a chance to drive for dollars while on a sales call?)

    Lastly, can you sacrifice some social life now for freedom later. It does not have to be one or the other but if you give up 3 months of weekends you should be able to finish a BRRR in that time. Maybe just do 1 a year for now but that way you can make a sacrifice for the future but also live now. Hope that helps!


     Wow!  Thank you so much.  Very helpful.

    0Reply
  • Jon KellyPro Member
    Investor · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2016 · 929 posts · 951 votes
    4y

    @Kyle Wagner There's no secret to this. You get 24 hours in a day or 168 hours in a week just like everyone else. You need to prioritize what's most important to you. You should write down your daily schedule to see how many hours you devote to each category. If your day/week is truly filled up then BRRRRing probably isn't for you at this time. You can consider other forms of passive real estate investing (e.g. becoming a limited partner in a syndication). 

    I would suggest creating goals and a more short-term plan. You mentioned you want to invest in real estate to be able to retire after 25 years... That's all great and admirable, but what does that actually mean? Reverse engineer your long-term plan into actionable steps you can take today. How much money do you want to live off of? What do you have to do now or within the next 3-5 years to be on track? 

    The best advice is start sooner than later. 

    2Reply
  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y

    That is awesome, I really like the passion behind what you said.  I need to be more specific within my goals.  Thank you for the advice!

    0Reply
  • Long DinhPro Member
    Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    You are way ahead of everyone else by thinking about retirement at 25.

    I'm a firefighter and planning on working for 20 years then retire. For me, real estate is a means to retire. 

    We all have 24 hours so don't waste them.

    Be humble.

    Pay people on time and what they are worth.

    1Reply
  • Joe Miller
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2021 · 203 posts · 247 votes
    4y

    I am by no means an expert- but what I have seen displayed for me through my mentor, team lead and broker is to build your core people. Screen them, test them, replace them when you must, but build those core four people(Finder,PM,Contractor and Lender) and stick with them.

    For some of us this is our full-time job so we will do the heavy lifting if you allow us.  

    2Reply
  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Kyle Wagner A more experienced investor told me once "Time is your friend, use it wisely." 

    You can start investing when you 27 or you can start at 47. Find the route that gives you MORE TIME. Find the route where you could crash and recover. Not everyone has that luxury. In my opinion most investors (not the Clayton Morris/ Bert Whalen's of the world) that struck it rich in REI earned it. They actively fix problems, see value when others don't, sacrifice so much free time, and add value to a core team including other investors, contractors, agents, lenders, wholesalers, etc. This is the hardest part in my opinion.

    Buying property in this market is brutal but who cares? That's only half the battle! Focus on the other half first and see what happens.

    0Reply
  • Stefan D.
    Park City, UT · Member since 2018 · 127 posts · 126 votes
    4y


    You can absolutely do it - but let me make a suggestion: Try working 35-40 hours a week instead.  It'll force you to be more efficient.  You'll say "no" more to projects that aren't valuable and start to think about the things that are important - the things that your boss will notice and will make a lasting impact at your company.  

    I made it to the level of Director, with a team of 10 by the age of 28 and I rarely worked more than 45 hours a week - probably averaged below 40 (9-5:30 with an hour for lunch).  In my experience, lots of people keep them selves busy (or just try to look busy) by answering emails all the time, and doing pointless tasks.  Focus on the big things and free up time for real estate and for your family.  

    0Reply
  • Patrick Villaviza
    Investor · Northridge, CA · Member since 2021 · 22 posts · 9 votes
    4y

    Definitely felt this dilemma about work-RE-life balance. First off, know that it's normal and you're not alone. I would recommend reading the book, "Atomic Habits" by James Clear. It helped me find that balance with life in general. You love your job but since you've already considered getting in to this game, you definitely need to set aside a time for it. Set up specific goals daily. For instance, reaching out to 10 agents. Then the following day would be reaching out to another 10. In this way you've accomplished creating a list of agents you can work with. Obviously, the following week would be a different goal. Also, while at work, you may want to start making time as well reaching out to agents, contractors, etc. because if you're only available during the weekends, not all people are going to be available since they want some fun time and relax too. But yeah, at least start with one goal to accomplish. Just keep putting in that 1% every day. Eventually, you'll be able to find the balance you're looking for. Also, remember that this is a long journey. Don't put a lot of pressure on yourself when you set up a goal. It should serve as guidance and motivation for you. Best of luck, man! You got this!

    1Reply
  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Kyle Wagner You have to be realistic and ask yourself what you're willing to give up. There's only so many hours in a day. Doing a BRRRR is very time intensive. Are you willing to give up some hours at work, sleep or social time? Something's got to give.

    0Reply
  • Tiffany Roberts
    Member since 2022 · 17 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    You work a lot so i would recommend hiring out everything if you want to have any sort of a life.  So start finding those people now if you can.  My struggles were and still are trying to do it all myself, the sooner you can get over that and just get people to do things for you, even if it costs more, the better of you'll be. 

    1Reply
  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Mike D'Arrigo:

    @Kyle Wagner You have to be realistic and ask yourself what you're willing to give up. There's only so many hours in a day. Doing a BRRRR is very time intensive. Are you willing to give up some hours at work, sleep or social time? Something's got to give.


     I understand it's a big give and take and there are times where things will be unequal through certain times throughout.  I give up hours of sleep and social time, which is easier for me because I do my best work on 5-6 hours of sleep anyways.  Time blocking as been a huge help to me to ensure I am focused on one thing only during certain periods throughout my day and being more specific on my timeline with small goals that are aligned with my big audacious goal.  

    0Reply
  • Dale Degagne
    Investor · Canada · Member since 2021 · 38 posts · 29 votes
    4y

    @Kyle Wagner sounds almost like your applying the wrong strategy to your goals. If you want to retire in 25 years comfortably and want to have work life balance between now and then, I would suggest you relook at turn key properties or partner with someone who does BRRRRs full time. Either that or let go of the work life balance thing...

    0Reply
  • Kyle Wagner
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Moore, OK · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Dale Degagne:

    @Kyle Wagner sounds almost like your applying the wrong strategy to your goals. If you want to retire in 25 years comfortably and want to have work life balance between now and then, I would suggest you relook at turn key properties or partner with someone who does BRRRRs full time. Either that or let go of the work life balance thing...


    Well my intent of the post was not to complain or gripe about work life but to understand where other people have struggled at because I truly understand the value of having both. In reality I know it will be unequal at times. My strategy is aligned with my goals seeing that time blocking throughout my day to set aside time to focus on small goals to affect my large goals. Through talking with other investors turnkey properties look like the investment may not be worth what is put into it. Now I truly do not know this because I am ignorant about the investment and have done little research on turnkey but if you have positive insight on turnkey I would love to hear about your successes from them. Though I like the idea of partnering with someone who does BRRRR full time and I appreciate the feedback it is something I will set aside time to look into myself because I do have people in my life that would probably love to but a partner in something like that.

    0Reply
  • Dave G.
    Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 349 posts · 418 votes
    4y

    @Kyle Wagner

    I think it is quite presumptuous, at age 25 or maybe any age, to think you'll be at the same company in 25 years. Or even the same career. Regardless, that's great that you're happy with where you work now.

    My wife and I did a remodel while we lived in it. BP Mindy does this with her husband I think. It can be a pain, but it makes it very "convenient" to work every night and day off on the property since you're in it. It will also seriously motivate you to keep on task with things. Ever have to do kitchen dishes in a bathroom sink or tub because your kitchen is torn up? You will not waste time in that environment.

    Or do house hack and remodel one side while living in the other, then switch. 

    I read a book a long time ago in the 1900s called "The Positive Workaholic". Not sure it is around anymore, even in used form. But it was an eye-opener as the author argued that most people could work 2 - 40 hr/week jobs in a sustained fashion if you live healthy, stay focused and don't waste time or let others waste your time. I never accomplished that, but it was enlightening to consider and strive for.

    Figure out how to not sleep. Ok, sounds flippant I know. But I've always envied people that sleep very little. I've always despised sleeping since it seems like such a waste of time....you're just lying there getting nothing done. The best I ever did was only sleep 5 hours a night during the week then a bit of catch up over the weekend (6.5 - 7 hours). Even still, that's 19 hours a day I was busting it. That's 3 more than someone who sleeps 8 hours a night, everything else equal. It adds up.

    1Reply
  • Haley Hickman
    Member since 2021 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    4y

    Hi! I am a very rookie investor (only two properties) and I am looking to learn more about scaling, managing properties, streamlining your business, etc. and I would love to assist an investor virtually. I am looking to work Part-Time: 2-3 hours per day or 15-20 hours per week. I am saving up for my third investment and could use the extra income to help get me to my next step. I have a lot of skills to offer as I manage four retail stores that net >$1M per month in sales, hire/screen candidates weekly, have excellent critical conversation/confrontational skills, and I am the personnel leader for more than 100 employees. I am flexible and work with integrity. Thanks in advance!

    0Reply
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