Here's why all our plans fail

Here's why all our plans fail

Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 997 votes

To those starting out I have a word of warning, trust no one. Every single person you think is working for you or with you or in your best interest, is working in their best interest. This is America. Nobody cares about actually doing a good job. It's about doing just enough so you don't get sued and just enough so that you don't get a real nasty review on Yelp.

The worst offenders are real estate agents. When I was a real estate agent I genuinely tried my best every single time with every client no matter what. Maybe it was how I was raised maybe it was the environment in which I grew up, not sure but nobody does that down here in the United states. Or at least, so few people that they're so spread out I've never met them!   

Attorneys are pretty atrocious as well. You think you have a hedge against your bets by suing someone if they did something wrong to you? Try suing someone? See how difficult it is. See how nearly impossible it is to get a fat lazy lawyer off their fat lazy *** to write a two paragraph letter for $500. Then tell me you're legally hedged.

property managers are way up there as well. That's quite the racket. I wish I owned a business that could just take money from others whenever I wanted. At least though these guys are required to perform some duties even if they're of exceedingly little value. at least they make the paperwork easy when you're counting up how much money they've lost you.

the only people out there who could actually be trusted are home inspectors and appraisers. they perform a service and receive a flat fee. This is really how it should be. As soon as you start adding percentages you incentivize gross inequalities that will exacerbate over time and eventually result in full scale cultural divisions. You wouldn't know anything about cultural divisions, would you Uncle Sam?

So to all those who have got these elaborate plans like I did six or seven years ago with the intention of building a real estate empire: Don't bother. buy a house in your local neighborhood or even better, just do it all a really really rich people do, buy Google and Amazon and sit back and wait.  

Trust me, the pain and hassle and stress and sleepless nights are really not worth it. And whatever your expectations are of any level of performance by anybody in the real estate business, divide that by three or four and I think you will be disappointed a lot less.

Real estate is a great investment, it's just too bad there are so many people able to screw it up.  

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Patrick Britton:

I'm seeing a pattern and it's not these professions.

I know plenty of good real estate agents. I know good property managers. I even know a couple good, honest attorneys (they are definitely in the minority). 

Your complaints remind me of the people that will never invest in real estate because there are too many bad tenants. There are a lot of bad tenants, but a smart investor learns how to screen them out. There are bad REALTORS, Property Managers, attorneys, and even appraisers. Taking time to educate yourself and then screen can make all the difference.j

I've seen a lot of crooked, incompetent appraisers in my time. You know what the difference is between appraisers and the other three groups? I don't get to screen and choose my appraiser!

Your "woe is me" attitude won't help you succeed in life and it's not helpful to other investors.

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  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    3y

    A little surprised this is from Patrick.  I remember him as an agent in the PNW with solid, no-nonense info to share.

    I hopped on this to see if the listed common cause or denominator of fails is what I've seen over the years I've been yacking on here or not. 

    The most common denominator (aside from over-leveraging) I've seen is depending too much on somebody or something besides yourself you shouldn't have.  "I thought title or my agent or my PM would catch that. Now I'm up a..."

    I guess it's similar.  My someone is another's everyone.  Vet, screen, verify and oversee important processes. 

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2010 · 11 posts · 8 votes
    3y

    I 1000% believe in the maxim that you get from this world whatever you give to it. So, I humbly suggest you consider what energy you are putting out to the world. I have only recently learned this connection and it has changed so many relationships for the better for me.

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Patrick Britton,

    If you always hire the cheapest/lowest end, of course, you should expect your experience.   I remember hearing "If you think a good lawyer is expensive, try a bad one"  and it's so true.. if anything is the cheapest-- they are going for volume, not quality.     People are all out for their own best interest, in any profession.   Humans are humans-- self-serving.   It is interesting how you are an appraiser, and say they are the best--- I've had good ones, and bad ones, hard workers and lazy ones-- just like with any other profession.

    People will charge you what they think you can pay.    I had a trash guy give me a $8500 quote to gut a duplex, meanwhile another trash guy gave me a $900 quote.  I wish that was a made-up story, but it's reality.

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    @Patrick Britton there’s a ton of great people in real estate, you just have to find them.

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    @Patrick Britton like any profession. More good than bad though.

  • Jay ThomasPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 715 votes
    3y

    Don't give up! When faced with obstacles, try to find new ways to approach the situation. You may never know what could have worked if you don't take that extra step and explore all your options. Believe in yourself - if you believe that your plans will not fail, then keep on going until you reach success. With a positive and determined mindset, you can find a way to make it happen! Good luck!

    And remember: sometimes our plans don't go as expected but that doesn't mean they always have to fail. Things may not always end up the way we wanted them to be and that's okay. Be flexible in your approach and you will eventually get to where you want to be. Never give up!

  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Patrick Britton what state were you investing in where property managers could just take money from you whenever they wanted?

    Markets decide what business’s exist, are needed, and are relevant, not surely individuals.

    There are agents, property managers, and attorneys in every state. Some very successful, some run a racket. Classifying them all as dishonest is juvenile.

    If a property management company is managing over 500 doors and get all new business from referrals have they provided no value? Why are they growing? Why are current clients referring them? It’s all because they don’t know they are being robbed? Or is it possible some investors out there make money while using professional management?

    The reason to use a team of professionals is to have all bases covered and to get independent options from industry professionals. By the time you buy a property you should have an agent, a property manager, an attorney, a home inspector, an appraiser and an insurance broker all agree it’s a fair deal, or at least they client is getting what they think.

    Where I have seen people get into trouble is when they know better than everyone of the above professionals. They chase high cash on cash returns and see spread sheets turn into dollar signs. They get so distracted counting their spreadsheet dollars they forget to quantity risk, what neighborhood they are buying in, or if their agent is recommending they pay more for a house to get into a better area, in order to decrease risk.

    Instead of painting an entire industry of professionals as crooks, what would be helpful is if you provided examples of the investments you made. I have seen plenty of people buy F class properties then blame the management company for telling them the truth.

    What state did you buy in and what did you pay for the investment? Let’s see how much risk you took on. Maybe you went after high risk properties…

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  • Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes
    3y

    It is certainly not that everyone everywhere is inept. This certainly is not true. Successful people are successful because they rise above the norm both in their actions and the expectations they set for others.

    I do understand Patrick's frustration however. Mediocrity has crept into every aspect of business and society.

    In the 70's, when I was a young adult, excellent service was expected, appreciated and compensated. The local hardware store was manned by an owner whose livelihood depended on his personal attention to detail and the service he provided.  Now a big box store has taken over and most of the clerks are as apathetic as can be. Yes, we save a few bucks. Is it worth it? To me the answer is no.

    Throw in phones that don't get answered by real people and being put on hold for 30 minutes after inputting all your personal info only to not have your problem fixed by a person who can barely speak English and you end up reminiscing about the good ole days when the Ma Bell still existed.

    Pretty frustrating for sure.

    Gary

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    I feel your frustration. I knew that you was going to get creamed when you said that the only ones you could trust were appraisers and Inspector‘s. Lol.

    Wish you well and merry Christmas. :-)

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    3y

    Most plans fail because people look for shortcuts without fully understanding the downside of that.

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