Low Entry market? Cleveland or Columbus for cash flow??
New to Real Estate · Long Island, NY · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 15 votes
Low Entry market? Cleveland or Columbus for cash flow??
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Member since 2019 · 104 posts · 72 votes
3yAvoid Cleveland, at least Cleveland proper; the city is a nightmare to deal with, the applicant base is terrible and the housing court will drag your evictions out longer than literally any place in the entire state of Ohio, and find any reason to delay your case (date in the "wrong" place... there's no actual rule about that, but ask me how I know). Columbus is good, and most suburbs in CLE are good. Suffice to say, Cleveland is cheap for a reason...
19 Replies
- Member since 2019 · 104 posts · 72 votes3y
Avoid Cleveland, at least Cleveland proper; the city is a nightmare to deal with, the applicant base is terrible and the housing court will drag your evictions out longer than literally any place in the entire state of Ohio, and find any reason to delay your case (date in the "wrong" place... there's no actual rule about that, but ask me how I know). Columbus is good, and most suburbs in CLE are good. Suffice to say, Cleveland is cheap for a reason...
- New to Real Estate · Long Island, NY · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 15 votes3y
Quote from @Jason Allen:
Avoid Cleveland, at least Cleveland proper; the city is a nightmare to deal with, the applicant base is terrible and the housing court will drag your evictions out longer than literally any place in the entire state of Ohio, and find any reason to delay your case (date in the "wrong" place... there's no actual rule about that, but ask me how I know). Columbus is good, and most suburbs in CLE are good. Suffice to say, Cleveland is cheap for a reason...
Wow, Thank you for this insight, its good to know!
- Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Mavely, if you're looking at those markets you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not also looking at Detroit.
That's where I operate with 12-doors and a lot of other activity.
It's the "under the radar" Cleveland IMO. Still cash flows with today's rates, it's not on everyone's FOMO list yet, and there's a ton of revitalization that's been happening in the city for years.
Mark my words, BP will be all over Detroit in 2-3 years.
- 3yKerlous TadresBusiness MemberRealtor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Columbus, Ohio is a great market to pick up rental properties because of the lower home prices and demand from renters. JPMorgan Chase, Nationwide, Honda, L Brands, Huntington, and Amazon are just a few of the many companies that have thousands of jobs in the city.
New Albany is home to several major data centers including ones operated by Amazon, Google and Facebook, whose parent company, Meta, announced plans in the spring to expand its New Albany campus.
Strategy wise I would look for multifamily properties so you can start cashflow. I would recommend networking with realtors and seeing what they have to offer to help you out while looking for great investment opportunities!
Happy to connect to discuss more!
Kerlous Tadres | Reafco Real Estate540 Reviews - 3yRobert EllisBusiness MemberDeveloper · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Mavely Pazmino:
Hi all, Need some insight into these two markets.
Im from NY and looking to invest out of state for obvious reasons. Read a few forums about the same topic but they're from about 4+ years ago... My dilemma is deciding which market for cash flow with a low entry: Cleveland versus Columbus markets for buy & hold, duplexes or SFH in B/C class neighborhoods with a low entry. Much of the research ive been doing has been pointing me towards Cleveland for 'low-cost' entry and good cash flow for a duplex, but not much appreciation here and a declining population. However Columbus has much higher job market, great appreciation but an 'okay' cash flow [unless I decide on a SFH], and a much higher price point for entry,
My criteria: Turnkey, Either a Duplex in Cleveland OR a Single family in Columbus, $100K for Single Family, or $160K for duplex, interested in Cash flow.
- Are there specific B/C-class neighborhoods i should look into or avoid?
- Pros/Cons to either city?
- Is $160K turnkey for a duplex reasonable in Cleveland? or $100K for a SFH in Columbus?- Repairs in these houses since i know a lot of them are old?
- What are average returns as far as CoC and Capex in either city?
Absolutely, focusing on Columbus is a wise choice. It's a dynamic market with a growing economy and various investment opportunities. If you have any specific questions or need advice about investing in Columbus, feel free to ask!
Section 8 Launch52 Reviews - 3yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
don't. invest locally.
- Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
Quote from @Mavely Pazmino:
Hi all, Need some insight into these two markets.
Im from NY and looking to invest out of state for obvious reasons. Read a few forums about the same topic but they're from about 4+ years ago... My dilemma is deciding which market for cash flow with a low entry: Cleveland versus Columbus markets for buy & hold, duplexes or SFH in B/C class neighborhoods with a low entry. Much of the research ive been doing has been pointing me towards Cleveland for 'low-cost' entry and good cash flow for a duplex, but not much appreciation here and a declining population. However Columbus has much higher job market, great appreciation but an 'okay' cash flow [unless I decide on a SFH], and a much higher price point for entry,
My criteria: Turnkey, Either a Duplex in Cleveland OR a Single family in Columbus, $100K for Single Family, or $160K for duplex, interested in Cash flow.
- Are there specific B/C-class neighborhoods i should look into or avoid?
- Pros/Cons to either city?
- Is $160K turnkey for a duplex reasonable in Cleveland? or $100K for a SFH in Columbus?- Repairs in these houses since i know a lot of them are old?
- What are average returns as far as CoC and Capex in either city?
I am from LI did about 20 deals there, but it was just too expensive. I started doing business in the Cleveland markets about 10 years ago. Well 500, yes 500 deals later, I have learned it all. Happy to chat with you and guide you in the right direction. All my personals are about 20% net cap based on cash purchase. Used to be 30%++ but pricing has doubled tripled or more. Also, I am very aware of the Columbus markets as well.
160k for a duplex, Sure in UH, no need to go to that price point. I pick up SF all in 80k with 1300 in rents all the time. Duplex's all in 100kish, with 1800 in rent. Do not even think about doing anything there without a team in place, it will not end well. Happy to guide you.
All the best
- Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
Quote from @Jason Allen:
Avoid Cleveland, at least Cleveland proper; the city is a nightmare to deal with, the applicant base is terrible and the housing court will drag your evictions out longer than literally any place in the entire state of Ohio, and find any reason to delay your case (date in the "wrong" place... there's no actual rule about that, but ask me how I know). Columbus is good, and most suburbs in CLE are good. Suffice to say, Cleveland is cheap for a reason...
HMM we do evictions in about 40 days, ITS ALL about knowledge and your team. Love Lee Harvard area, and N Collinwood. Pricing has tripled over the last 8 years. We are now buying as much as we can in PARTS of East Cleveland, YEP East, we know what's coming as do others, that's why no inventory.
All the best
All the best
- Member since 2019 · 104 posts · 72 votes3yWe just got the WRIT on the 3rd, and it's almost 40 days until set out. More than 5 weeks. Apparently the bailiffs are backed up. I have never seen an eviction take as short as 40 days in Cleveland, even if you were measuring from the initial court date, and not the filing. Has 40 days been your experience recently? or 8 or 9 years ago when Cleveland had good judges? If it's recently, please give me your lawyer's number, because they are doing something right (and apparently all my lawyers all these years are doing something very wrong...)
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Jason Allen:
Avoid Cleveland, at least Cleveland proper; the city is a nightmare to deal with, the applicant base is terrible and the housing court will drag your evictions out longer than literally any place in the entire state of Ohio, and find any reason to delay your case (date in the "wrong" place... there's no actual rule about that, but ask me how I know). Columbus is good, and most suburbs in CLE are good. Suffice to say, Cleveland is cheap for a reason...
HMM we do evictions in about 40 days, ITS ALL about knowledge and your team. Love Lee Harvard area, and N Collinwood. Pricing has tripled over the last 8 years. We are now buying as much as we can in PARTS of East Cleveland, YEP East, we know what's coming as do others, that's why no inventory.
All the best
All the best
- 3yJimmy LieuBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votesHi Mavely, I personally love Columbus Ohio and as someone who works with a lot of out of state investors - there's so many catalysts for why you should invest here. Specifically, there's job growth (Intel, Honda, Amazon, Nationwide, etc) and the population is growing (unlike Cleveland or Cincy). I really see Columbus Ohio as an extremely safe bet for the next 10-20 years. Plus, there's still so many positive cash flowing and 1% deals here in Columbus Ohio. As a local investor and agent here in Columbus, let me know if you have any questions or want to connect!
Quote from @Mavely Pazmino:
Hi all, Need some insight into these two markets.
Im from NY and looking to invest out of state for obvious reasons. Read a few forums about the same topic but they're from about 4+ years ago... My dilemma is deciding which market for cash flow with a low entry: Cleveland versus Columbus markets for buy & hold, duplexes or SFH in B/C class neighborhoods with a low entry. Much of the research ive been doing has been pointing me towards Cleveland for 'low-cost' entry and good cash flow for a duplex, but not much appreciation here and a declining population. However Columbus has much higher job market, great appreciation but an 'okay' cash flow [unless I decide on a SFH], and a much higher price point for entry,
My criteria: Turnkey, Either a Duplex in Cleveland OR a Single family in Columbus, $100K for Single Family, or $160K for duplex, interested in Cash flow.
- Are there specific B/C-class neighborhoods i should look into or avoid?
- Pros/Cons to either city?
- Is $160K turnkey for a duplex reasonable in Cleveland? or $100K for a SFH in Columbus?- Repairs in these houses since i know a lot of them are old?
- What are average returns as far as CoC and Capex in either city?
Jimmy Lieu, Red 1 Realty4.9120 Reviews - Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
Quote from @Jason Allen:
We just got the WRIT on the 3rd, and it's almost 40 days until set out. More than 5 weeks. Apparently the bailiffs are backed up. I have never seen an eviction take as short as 40 days in Cleveland, even if you were measuring from the initial court date, and not the filing. Has 40 days been your experience recently? or 8 or 9 years ago when Cleveland had good judges? If it's recently, please give me your lawyer's number, because they are doing something right (and apparently all my lawyers all these years are doing something very wrong...)Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Jason Allen:
Avoid Cleveland, at least Cleveland proper; the city is a nightmare to deal with, the applicant base is terrible and the housing court will drag your evictions out longer than literally any place in the entire state of Ohio, and find any reason to delay your case (date in the "wrong" place... there's no actual rule about that, but ask me how I know). Columbus is good, and most suburbs in CLE are good. Suffice to say, Cleveland is cheap for a reason...
HMM we do evictions in about 40 days, ITS ALL about knowledge and your team. Love Lee Harvard area, and N Collinwood. Pricing has tripled over the last 8 years. We are now buying as much as we can in PARTS of East Cleveland, YEP East, we know what's coming as do others, that's why no inventory.
All the best
All the best
Wow, so I just hung up with our attorney, Yes Cleveland is about 2 months or so. I do not handle the day to day, ( PM about 600 doors) The suburbs are standard, 45 days or so. Well, this is why we do 90% govt program tenant's, its all about screening. However, we are still buying everything we can in Cleveland :)
All the best
- 3ySam McCormackBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH/NKY · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 833 votes
I can't speak for Columbus or Cleveland, but something you may want to hear about Cincinnati because you like both those cities. 160k won't get you turnkey duplex but more around 220-280k. But these are ones that cash flow and aren't in terrible areas. There are many more possibilities than just that and opportunities but I just wanted to reach out and let you know
Sam McCormack Realtor - Investor · Member since 2022 · 235 posts · 127 votes3y
@Mavely Pazmino happy to trade notes sometime on small multi-family investing in the Ohio area.
- 3yRobert EllisBusiness MemberDeveloper · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Sam McCormack:
I can't speak for Columbus or Cleveland, but something you may want to hear about Cincinnati because you like both those cities. 160k won't get you turnkey duplex but more around 220-280k. But these are ones that cash flow and aren't in terrible areas. There are many more possibilities than just that and opportunities but I just wanted to reach out and let you know
I would say columbus it isn't hard to find 1% rule cash flow duplexes plus appreciation for under $200k. that is also common in single family because there are 20x the single family for sale than multifamily like any market.
Section 8 Launch52 Reviews - 3yRaju BalakrishnanPro MemberRental Property Investor · Santa Clara, CA · Member since 2016 · 223 posts · 112 votes
Broadly, Cleveland is Higher cash flow, but more likely tenant issues and lower growth. Columbus is lower cash flow, lower likely tenant issues and better growth. Choice is yours. But real estate is hyper local, and it may vary from block to block in a given city. In my opinion, choise depends on your goals. Rest depends on analyzing, being patient to find the right property, and knowing what you are buying.
- 3yMarc RiceBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Mavely Pazmino:
Hi all, Need some insight into these two markets.
Im from NY and looking to invest out of state for obvious reasons. Read a few forums about the same topic but they're from about 4+ years ago... My dilemma is deciding which market for cash flow with a low entry: Cleveland versus Columbus markets for buy & hold, duplexes or SFH in B/C class neighborhoods with a low entry. Much of the research ive been doing has been pointing me towards Cleveland for 'low-cost' entry and good cash flow for a duplex, but not much appreciation here and a declining population. However Columbus has much higher job market, great appreciation but an 'okay' cash flow [unless I decide on a SFH], and a much higher price point for entry,
My criteria: Turnkey, Either a Duplex in Cleveland OR a Single family in Columbus, $100K for Single Family, or $160K for duplex, interested in Cash flow.
- Are there specific B/C-class neighborhoods i should look into or avoid?
- Pros/Cons to either city?
- Is $160K turnkey for a duplex reasonable in Cleveland? or $100K for a SFH in Columbus?- Repairs in these houses since i know a lot of them are old?
- What are average returns as far as CoC and Capex in either city?
$100k single family in Columbus will either need some cosmetic work as a 2bd/1ba or be a total junker otherwise needing fixed up. And this will only get you C+/C/C-, not B-.
Marc Rice | Investor Friendly Agent at Reafco Tailwind Team574 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
Quote from @Mavely Pazmino:
Hi all, Need some insight into these two markets.
Im from NY and looking to invest out of state for obvious reasons. Read a few forums about the same topic but they're from about 4+ years ago... My dilemma is deciding which market for cash flow with a low entry: Cleveland versus Columbus markets for buy & hold, duplexes or SFH in B/C class neighborhoods with a low entry. Much of the research ive been doing has been pointing me towards Cleveland for 'low-cost' entry and good cash flow for a duplex, but not much appreciation here and a declining population. However Columbus has much higher job market, great appreciation but an 'okay' cash flow [unless I decide on a SFH], and a much higher price point for entry,
My criteria: Turnkey, Either a Duplex in Cleveland OR a Single family in Columbus, $100K for Single Family, or $160K for duplex, interested in Cash flow.
- Are there specific B/C-class neighborhoods i should look into or avoid?
- Pros/Cons to either city?
- Is $160K turnkey for a duplex reasonable in Cleveland? or $100K for a SFH in Columbus?- Repairs in these houses since i know a lot of them are old?
- What are average returns as far as CoC and Capex in either city?
If you're looking for affordability and good cashflow stick to Cleveland, Akron, Dayton. These will be your best bets in the ohio market. You can watch videos at ohiorem.com to see more markets and the pro's and con's of each. Columbus and Cincinnati tend to be more expensive and more of an appreciation play.
- 2yRobert EllisBusiness MemberDeveloper · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Mavely Pazmino:
Hi all, Need some insight into these two markets.
Im from NY and looking to invest out of state for obvious reasons. Read a few forums about the same topic but they're from about 4+ years ago... My dilemma is deciding which market for cash flow with a low entry: Cleveland versus Columbus markets for buy & hold, duplexes or SFH in B/C class neighborhoods with a low entry. Much of the research ive been doing has been pointing me towards Cleveland for 'low-cost' entry and good cash flow for a duplex, but not much appreciation here and a declining population. However Columbus has much higher job market, great appreciation but an 'okay' cash flow [unless I decide on a SFH], and a much higher price point for entry,
My criteria: Turnkey, Either a Duplex in Cleveland OR a Single family in Columbus, $100K for Single Family, or $160K for duplex, interested in Cash flow.
- Are there specific B/C-class neighborhoods i should look into or avoid?
- Pros/Cons to either city?
- Is $160K turnkey for a duplex reasonable in Cleveland? or $100K for a SFH in Columbus?- Repairs in these houses since i know a lot of them are old?
- What are average returns as far as CoC and Capex in either city?
I posted this in another forum but for Columbus a good starting point is to look at zips that sell less than 100k houses which from highest to lowest for central ohio MLS are the following (this data is less than 30 days old):
43302 - 128
43211 - 101
43130 - 62
43223 - 61
43204 - 55
43207 - 49
43055 - 48
43224 - 45
43160 - 33
43050 - 29
43219 - 29
43701 - 28
43138 - 26
43113 - 23
43123 - 21
43228 - 20Multifamily will follow the same zips maybe some different patterns but price per unit is a good starting point. I'd look at the same numbers across the board. SFRs are easier to get because there are about 20x more in our market than multifamily at any given time on the market.
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