Start with SFH or Wait for MFH

Start with SFH or Wait for MFH

Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes

I have an opportunity to purchase a SFH for below market value in a good area with a lake view. I have a motivated seller (a relative of mine) in my network who is going to be ready to sell when I'm ready to buy.

My initial plan was to house hack a multifamily but I would need to wait at least a year longer to get into a deal like that given my situation. I'm getting married first and can't afford a multifamily in my area anywhere near as soon as I'd be able to afford this property. 

I'll be able to get into the property with relatively low money down because: 

1) I know the seller 

2) The seller already agreed to fix anything that needs fixed in the property before they depart 

3) I have contact with a local lender who offers a loan for 0-5% down on a SFH or a duplex with no PMI

I didn't really want to get started with a single family but I can rent out the other room for a year and then turn into a full time rental once we move out. 

Does it make more sense to wait to buy a MFH in likely 2025 or pursue this opportunity? 

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Kevin PaulkPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 219 posts · 174 votes
2y

@Benjamin Sulka

"Opportunity knocks only once. You never know if you'll get another opportunity."

See this reply in the discussion

20 Replies

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  • Alecia LovelessPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Benjamin Sulka I'd buy the SFH now and start building your portfolio. If you can rent one room and house hack try to save as much extra money as possible to be able to buy that multi family in a year or two like you've planned and perhaps consider moving into one of its units upon purchase so you can again utilize an owner occupied low down payment loan to purchase that next property as well.

    That way you’ll have the house rented and the multi and have a nice start to your real estate portfolio.

    If you’re house hacking the first property while you live there be sure to start developing your systems with a formal lease agreement and by having a separate bank account for rent, keep expenses separate and claim the portion of the house the tenant uses on your taxes.

    This is a great way to begin getting some write offs if your accountant will allow it. I’ve found it’s worth it to

    Spend $2-400 to get a basic H&R Block or local accountant and especially so as my portfolio continues to grow.

    Even though the bank most likely won’t consider that rent as income towards your next property purchase they might consider that you now have some experience especially if you use a local bank for your accounts and your mortgages. (Assuming they have competitive rates).

  • Kevin PaulkPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 219 posts · 174 votes
    2y

    @Benjamin Sulka

    "Opportunity knocks only once. You never know if you'll get another opportunity."

  • Real Estate Consultant · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2022 · 466 posts · 257 votes
    2y

    Hi Ben-

    Congratulations on getting started and great question.

    Personally, I think it is better to cut your teeth with single-family before scaling with multi-family.

    Additionally, I recommend using a property management company to handle the leases and tenant issues even if you rent rooms out in a single-family rental.

    The reason for this is they will know local and federal housing laws and keep you out of the weeds and out of trouble.

    Additionally, it provides a shied from awkward moments in the house or with a tenant over unpaid rent or difficult behavior. You can act like just another tenant and can call the property manager to deal with it.

    Also, your future self with thank you because using a property manager makes owning real estate more passive and that is what you want. I common reason people do not stay in business is the hassle of property management. Pick a solid local property management company and let them help you run your properties well to reduce tenant turnover so you can get on with your life.

    This will help you scale your portfolio over time as well.

    To Your success! 

  • Investor · Member since 2022 · 235 posts · 127 votes
    2y

    My general take is jump on an opportunity when you can. One question that will also help - if you were to look ahead to 2025 or 2026 can you rent this subject SFH property for at or above what you would be paying in PITI? as in will it make a nice little addition to your portfolio if/when you move on to the next home/MFH?

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alecia Loveless:

    @Benjamin Sulka I'd buy the SFH now and start building your portfolio. If you can rent one room and house hack try to save as much extra money as possible to be able to buy that multi family in a year or two like you've planned and perhaps consider moving into one of its units upon purchase so you can again utilize an owner occupied low down payment loan to purchase that next property as well.

    That way you’ll have the house rented and the multi and have a nice start to your real estate portfolio.

    If you’re house hacking the first property while you live there be sure to start developing your systems with a formal lease agreement and by having a separate bank account for rent, keep expenses separate and claim the portion of the house the tenant uses on your taxes.

    This is a great way to begin getting some write offs if your accountant will allow it. I’ve found it’s worth it to

    Spend $2-400 to get a basic H&R Block or local accountant and especially so as my portfolio continues to grow.

    Even though the bank most likely won’t consider that rent as income towards your next property purchase they might consider that you now have some experience especially if you use a local bank for your accounts and your mortgages. (Assuming they have competitive rates).


     Alecia, 

    I really appreciate your response. This is very very insightful. If the numbers work on the SFH, I'm going to go for it.

    Definitely going to owner occ my next property as well. 

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jeff Roth:

    Hi Ben-

    Congratulations on getting started and great question.

    Personally, I think it is better to cut your teeth with single-family before scaling with multi-family.

    Additionally, I recommend using a property management company to handle the leases and tenant issues even if you rent rooms out in a single-family rental.

    The reason for this is they will know local and federal housing laws and keep you out of the weeds and out of trouble.

    Additionally, it provides a shied from awkward moments in the house or with a tenant over unpaid rent or difficult behavior. You can act like just another tenant and can call the property manager to deal with it.

    Also, your future self with thank you because using a property manager makes owning real estate more passive and that is what you want. I common reason people do not stay in business is the hassle of property management. Pick a solid local property management company and let them help you run your properties well to reduce tenant turnover so you can get on with your life.

    This will help you scale your portfolio over time as well.

    To Your success! 


     Jeff, 

    Thanks for the response! A lot of great stuff to consider in your post. 

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Ali Nichols:

    My general take is jump on an opportunity when you can. One question that will also help - if you were to look ahead to 2025 or 2026 can you rent this subject SFH property for at or above what you would be paying in PITI? as in will it make a nice little addition to your portfolio if/when you move on to the next home/MFH?


     Ali, 

    Grateful for your response and that's what this is going to come down to. Obviously not going to jump on the deal if the numbers don't work when I move out. 

    Trying to get a good idea of what my PITI is going to be and the respective rents as well to make an informed decision.

    Thanks!

  • Investor · Member since 2022 · 235 posts · 127 votes
    2y

    Best of luck @Benjamin Sulka!

  • Dominic RosatoBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2022 · 82 posts · 61 votes
    2y

    I’d say ditch the analysis paralysis and jump in! Seems like you have a nice opportunity here to house hack in a good area.

    Say you decide to wait to buy a multi family- What happens if next year rolls around and interest rates kept rising, while properties kept appreciating? Would you wait another year? 

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dominic Rosato:

    I’d say ditch the analysis paralysis and jump in! Seems like you have a nice opportunity here to house hack in a good area.

    Say you decide to wait to buy a multi family- What happens if next year rolls around and interest rates kept rising, while properties kept appreciating? Would you wait another year? 


     Dominic, 

    Great points. I just want to get actual numbers from a lender on what my monthly payment would be and get more solid advice on how much properties rent for in this area. I see similar 2/1s renting for 1300-1500 but locations can be so micro that it may be different. 

    I can't get out of my lease until June of 2024 but the seller is willing to wait until then to sell me the property. 

  • Lender · Fort Lauderdale, FL (Lending in FL CT GA MI PA) · Member since 2022 · 470 posts · 349 votes
    2y

    Sounds like you have a good deal in front of you, go for it! 

  • John MorganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    I'd definitely jump on this deal. I have 21 SFR and love them! Don't knock the single family world. Less turnovers, drama and better returns.

  • Dominic RosatoBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2022 · 82 posts · 61 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Benjamin Sulka:
    Quote from @Dominic Rosato:

    I’d say ditch the analysis paralysis and jump in! Seems like you have a nice opportunity here to house hack in a good area.

    Say you decide to wait to buy a multi family- What happens if next year rolls around and interest rates kept rising, while properties kept appreciating? Would you wait another year? 


     Dominic, 

    Great points. I just want to get actual numbers from a lender on what my monthly payment would be and get more solid advice on how much properties rent for in this area. I see similar 2/1s renting for 1300-1500 but locations can be so micro that it may be different. 

    I can't get out of my lease until June of 2024 but the seller is willing to wait until then to sell me the property. 


     Yeah, it's good to know what you're walking into. Good luck with everything, I look forward to hearing how it goes!

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Ash Hegde:

    Sounds like you have a good deal in front of you, go for it! 


     Ash, 

    Thanks for the encouragement!

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @John Morgan:

    I'd definitely jump on this deal. I have 21 SFR and love them! Don't knock the single family world. Less turnovers, drama and better returns.


     John,

    Do you use a property manager to help manager all your different units? 

  • John MorganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Benjamin Sulka:
    Quote from @John Morgan:

    I'd definitely jump on this deal. I have 21 SFR and love them! Don't knock the single family world. Less turnovers, drama and better returns.


     John,

    Do you use a property manager to help manager all your different units? 

    No. But they’re easy to self manage so far. I just text a handyman or someone to go fix them when they break. 
  • Eric FernwoodBusiness Member
    Realtor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 997 posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Hello @Benjamin Sulka,

    Just because you can buy a property below market does not necessarily make it a good investment property. Here is the problem.

    You buy a rental property to have a reliable rental income. However, the only way to have a reliable income is if a reliable tenant continuously occupies your property. A reliable tenant stays many years, always pays the rent on schedule, and cares for the property. Reliable tenants are the exception, not the norm. And, over the years that you will own the property, you will need multiple reliable tenants.

    To maximize the odds of always having a reliable tenant, buy a property that attracts a tenant demographic with a high concentration of reliable tenants.

    You can identify a tenant segment with a high concentration of reliable tenants through property manager interviews. If you or anyone would like sample interview questions, let me know.

    Once you identify your target segment, determine what and where they rent today. You can create a property profile based on where and what they rent today. A property profile contains at least four elements:

    • Location - The locations where significant percentages of the target segment are renting today.
    • Property type - What type of properties are they renting today? Condo, high rise, multi-family, single family?
    • Rent range - What the segment is willing and able to pay.
    • Configuration - Two bedrooms, three-car garage, large back yard, single-story, two stories?

    Let the target tenant segment you want to occupy your rental property make all the property decisions. For example, the map below shows where most of our client's properties are located.


    I did not select the property type, rent range, configuration, or location. I determined where the segment we targeted was willing and able to rent; the tenant segment effectively made all decisions.

    This is how a retail store chooses a location. A retail store identifies its target customer demographic and chooses a location based on where that demographic lives. They then stock the store with what that demographic is willing and able to buy. Companies that do not listen to their demographic lose a lot of money.

    If you feel pressed to consider the lake house, I would ask multiple property managers questions like the following:

    • Would you buy this property for use as a rental?
    • What is the average length of time tenants would stay in this property?
    • How long will it take to rent this property?
    • What changes are necessary to maximize income while minimizing renovation costs?
    • What is a reasonable rental rate for the property?
    • Do you have experience managing this type of property?
    • Will you be able to rent the property throughout the year, or will it be more seasonal?

    After you ask the same questions of multiple property managers, you will have a good idea of the rent, time to rent, and length of tenant stay. Now is the time to use a spreadsheet to determine if the property makes financial sense.

    Benjamin, I hope this helps. 

    ...Eric

    FERNWOOD Team, KW VIP Realty520 Reviews
  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y

    Eric, 

    This is incredibly helpful and I'm beyond grateful you took the time to write this out. 

    A fantastic way of looking at it. Just like in any business, if you can't get your product to the customers that are willing to pay for it, then it doesn't matter how good your product is. Loved the retail store example that you provided. 

    I'm absolutely going to start talking to PM's in this area. @Eric Fernwood - How will I know if a PM isn't just blowing smoke up my you-know-what to encourage me to use them? 

    Appreciatively,

    Ben

  • Eric FernwoodBusiness Member
    Realtor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 997 posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Hello @Benjamin Sulka,

    We’ve operated a one-stop investor services business in Las Vegas for over 15 years. To provide all the necessary services, we assembled a team of experts in addition to our four core team members. Our expanded team includes:

    • Property manager
    • Renovation company
    • property inspector
    • Multiple trades like roofers and plumbers, which we call upon as needed
    • Lenders

    Not Just Rent Collectors

    If your only expectation of a property manager is rent collection, you have extremely low expectations.

    We expected the property manager to become integral to our core team. For example, the property manager we work with plays a key part in our property evaluation, in addition to managing our clients’ properties. See the diagram below.

    Our core team manages everything until the renovation is complete. After renovation, the property manager takes over. She then does the most important task a property manager provides: markets the property and finds a reliable tenant. Our average tenant stay is over five years, while most other property manager tenants stay for two years or less. This is the difference a good property manager makes.

    Our current property manager is our 5th. When property managers’ performance declined, we replaced them. After the first two replacements, being engineers, we developed a process for finding a property manager with the needed skills. This post contains an overview of this process. If anyone would like a free copy of the full guide, DM me.

    List Your Requirements

    “If you don’t know what you want, you will likely get something else.” paraphrased from Yogi Berra.

    Start by listing the capabilities and services the property manager must have. Below are some of our requirements:

    • Highly skilled at selecting reliable tenants
    • They already manage many similar properties in the areas where our current and future properties are located.
    • Already fully automated and has an owner portal.
    • Will evaluate potential investment properties and provide estimated rent, time to rent, and renovation items in a timely manner.
    • Will handle payment to the HOA and resolve issues between the tenant and the HOA.
    • Practively manage property maintenance to keep maintenance costs low.
    • Does NOT have an internal repair department. More on this later.

    There are several more requirements, but these will give you a start on yours.

    Once you have a list of requirements, it is time to find candidate property managers.

    Finding Candidates

    Search Engines

    If you Google something like "Las Vegas Nevada property management companies," you may get too many hits to be practical. Also, ranking high on Google is more of a popularity/marketing contest than any measure of quality of service.

    Yelp Reviews

    Yelp and similar websites do not include reviews from individuals who benefit from a business's success, such as restaurant owners.

    For property managers, other property owners are the clients, not tenants. However, only tenant reviews are typically included. A positive review from a tenant can be a negative review to the property owner.

    Some examples.

    • "The property manager agreed to replace all the faucets with better-looking ones at no charge!" - Including labor, faucets are about $150 each.
    • "They let us stay an extra two weeks at no charge." - Our average rent is $2,200/Mo. Two weeks is $1,100.
    • "They gave us back our entire security deposit despite our dog's damage to the rug.” Failing to deduct carpet damage from the security deposit takes money out of the owner’s pocket.

    A negative tenant review can be a positive owner review:

    • "I lost my job, and I asked the property manager for a couple of free months to find another job. They said no! XXX is a terrible property management company." The property manager did their job by protecting the owner from months of no income.

    Always read property manager reviews through the eyes of the owner, not the tenant.

    Networking

    Reach out to people in your location on sites like Biggerpockets.com and others. Important: just because someone tells you that XXX is a great management company does not mean they will be a great management company for you. Do your due diligence.

    Narrowing the Candidate List

    Visit each candidate's website. If a website says they specialize in commercial properties and you want to buy residential, cross them off your list. Spending a few minutes on each website before the interviews will save you time.

    Interview Questions

    Select the best 5 or 10 property managers for an initial phone screen. Prepare 5 to 7 questions. I use one sheet of paper for each interview to take notes. After the interviews, I compared their responses. This helps me identify who knew what they were doing and who was guessing.

    First Interview

    Consider the chemistry between you and the property manager and their answers to your questions.

    Below is a list of possible questions. Many more questions are listed in the guide.

    • How long have you been exclusively managing properties? (No part-timers)
    • How many properties are you currently managing?
    • What is your mix of properties (single-family, condos, commercial, etc.)?
    • What geographical area do you service?
    • Do you have an internal maintenance department?
    • Do you have a staff? How many are full-time?
    • What are your fees?

    Remove all property managers who did not perform well.

    Second Interview

    Select 5 to 7 additional questions that build on the initial questions. Again, record all answers for later comparison. Some important questions for this interview include:

    • What is the average length of time your tenants stay in a property?
    • What is your typical time-to-rent?
    • How do you keep owners informed? (monthly statements, website, etc.)

    A complete list of interview questions is in the full guide.

    Based on this meeting, narrow the list to one or two property managers.

    Third Interview

    Hold the third meeting via Zoom. Use your previous meetings to guide your questions. Focus on any remaining important issues.

    After this meeting, you should have a good property manager.

    Additional Considerations

    • Choosing the cheapest property manager may cost you more in the long run. A single tenant who doesn't pay rent or causes other problems can be more expensive than the slightly higher cost of a more experienced manager. Focus on the value you get, not just the lowest price.
    • Never work with a property manager with an in-house repair staff. They often earn more from repairs than rent collection. Your unplanned maintenance costs shouldn't be another person's primary source of profit. The property managers we work with use services from independent providers for maintenance.
    • Do not expect investment advice from a property manager. I've worked with many property managers, and none knew how to analyze a property. The best source of such analysis is an investment realtor (NOT an "investor friendly" realtor).

    Summary

    Your financial success hinges on your property manager's skills.

    FERNWOOD Team, KW VIP Realty520 Reviews
  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 826 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Eric Fernwood:

    Hello @Benjamin Sulka,

    We’ve operated a one-stop investor services business in Las Vegas for over 15 years. To provide all the necessary services, we assembled a team of experts in addition to our four core team members. Our expanded team includes:

    • Property manager
    • Renovation company
    • property inspector
    • Multiple trades like roofers and plumbers, which we call upon as needed
    • Lenders

    Not Just Rent Collectors

    If your only expectation of a property manager is rent collection, you have extremely low expectations.

    We expected the property manager to become integral to our core team. For example, the property manager we work with plays a key part in our property evaluation, in addition to managing our clients’ properties. See the diagram below.

    Our core team manages everything until the renovation is complete. After renovation, the property manager takes over. She then does the most important task a property manager provides: markets the property and finds a reliable tenant. Our average tenant stay is over five years, while most other property manager tenants stay for two years or less. This is the difference a good property manager makes.

    Our current property manager is our 5th. When property managers’ performance declined, we replaced them. After the first two replacements, being engineers, we developed a process for finding a property manager with the needed skills. This post contains an overview of this process. If anyone would like a free copy of the full guide, DM me.

    List Your Requirements

    “If you don’t know what you want, you will likely get something else.” paraphrased from Yogi Berra.

    Start by listing the capabilities and services the property manager must have. Below are some of our requirements:

    • Highly skilled at selecting reliable tenants
    • They already manage many similar properties in the areas where our current and future properties are located.
    • Already fully automated and has an owner portal.
    • Will evaluate potential investment properties and provide estimated rent, time to rent, and renovation items in a timely manner.
    • Will handle payment to the HOA and resolve issues between the tenant and the HOA.
    • Practively manage property maintenance to keep maintenance costs low.
    • Does NOT have an internal repair department. More on this later.

    There are several more requirements, but these will give you a start on yours.

    Once you have a list of requirements, it is time to find candidate property managers.

    Finding Candidates

    Search Engines

    If you Google something like "Las Vegas Nevada property management companies," you may get too many hits to be practical. Also, ranking high on Google is more of a popularity/marketing contest than any measure of quality of service.

    Yelp Reviews

    Yelp and similar websites do not include reviews from individuals who benefit from a business's success, such as restaurant owners.

    For property managers, other property owners are the clients, not tenants. However, only tenant reviews are typically included. A positive review from a tenant can be a negative review to the property owner.

    Some examples.

    • "The property manager agreed to replace all the faucets with better-looking ones at no charge!" - Including labor, faucets are about $150 each.
    • "They let us stay an extra two weeks at no charge." - Our average rent is $2,200/Mo. Two weeks is $1,100.
    • "They gave us back our entire security deposit despite our dog's damage to the rug.” Failing to deduct carpet damage from the security deposit takes money out of the owner’s pocket.

    A negative tenant review can be a positive owner review:

    • "I lost my job, and I asked the property manager for a couple of free months to find another job. They said no! XXX is a terrible property management company." The property manager did their job by protecting the owner from months of no income.

    Always read property manager reviews through the eyes of the owner, not the tenant.

    Networking

    Reach out to people in your location on sites like Biggerpockets.com and others. Important: just because someone tells you that XXX is a great management company does not mean they will be a great management company for you. Do your due diligence.

    Narrowing the Candidate List

    Visit each candidate's website. If a website says they specialize in commercial properties and you want to buy residential, cross them off your list. Spending a few minutes on each website before the interviews will save you time.

    Interview Questions

    Select the best 5 or 10 property managers for an initial phone screen. Prepare 5 to 7 questions. I use one sheet of paper for each interview to take notes. After the interviews, I compared their responses. This helps me identify who knew what they were doing and who was guessing.

    First Interview

    Consider the chemistry between you and the property manager and their answers to your questions.

    Below is a list of possible questions. Many more questions are listed in the guide.

    • How long have you been exclusively managing properties? (No part-timers)
    • How many properties are you currently managing?
    • What is your mix of properties (single-family, condos, commercial, etc.)?
    • What geographical area do you service?
    • Do you have an internal maintenance department?
    • Do you have a staff? How many are full-time?
    • What are your fees?

    Remove all property managers who did not perform well.

    Second Interview

    Select 5 to 7 additional questions that build on the initial questions. Again, record all answers for later comparison. Some important questions for this interview include:

    • What is the average length of time your tenants stay in a property?
    • What is your typical time-to-rent?
    • How do you keep owners informed? (monthly statements, website, etc.)

    A complete list of interview questions is in the full guide.

    Based on this meeting, narrow the list to one or two property managers.

    Third Interview

    Hold the third meeting via Zoom. Use your previous meetings to guide your questions. Focus on any remaining important issues.

    After this meeting, you should have a good property manager.

    Additional Considerations

    • Choosing the cheapest property manager may cost you more in the long run. A single tenant who doesn't pay rent or causes other problems can be more expensive than the slightly higher cost of a more experienced manager. Focus on the value you get, not just the lowest price.
    • Never work with a property manager with an in-house repair staff. They often earn more from repairs than rent collection. Your unplanned maintenance costs shouldn't be another person's primary source of profit. The property managers we work with use services from independent providers for maintenance.
    • Do not expect investment advice from a property manager. I've worked with many property managers, and none knew how to analyze a property. The best source of such analysis is an investment realtor (NOT an "investor friendly" realtor).

    Summary

    Your financial success hinges on your property manager's skills.


     Eric, this was fantastic. I love the amount of detail that went into this. 

    The point about positive and negative tenant reviews on sites like Yelp was insightful. 

    Will definitely refer back to this as I scale my real estate business. 

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