Out of State Investor Ready for First Purchase - Forest for the Trees… help?

Out of State Investor Ready for First Purchase - Forest for the Trees… help?

Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 8 votes

Hello,

I currently live in California and am looking to buy my first rental and trying to decide which state and strategy I should pursue to start.

A little about me:

-W2 (remote) - not sure how long will last, so trying to purchase as many props with this stability loan officers like to see

-up to 100k cash to invest without touching retirement accounts

-currently saving $3k/ mo to go towards RE, can push higher

-I would like to be work optional ( build a real estate portfolio) in the next few years so decided to rent to stay more flexible and keep expenses low, well as low as you can for California. I currently bring in 60% of the household income but after my nearly 30% tax bill my partner (1099) brings in just about the same. Ideally would like to live off of my partner's income plus some passive income from real estate investments. But this will affect our savings rate for sure, and I don't see us being able to get conventional loans with my partner's reported SE income right away.

Moreover, I would like to start a family in the next year or two and be fully present.

Areas considering:

Texas - I was born and raised here, lived in all areas along I 35, and experienced the growth firsthand before moving from DFW to California in 2019. I thought as a way to help lower my tax bill I could buy a ‘primary residence’ here … and then rent it out…

Feel like something that I know these areas, they are no longer in my backyard per se but if I were to ever move back in the future I'd have some property there…

I'm not sure if my sentiments are clouding my judgment here, but I'm seeing props with 1% LTR and in areas that will be/are booming (hello new Universal Theme Park), duplexes in other/less desirable areas, etc. The SFR are a little higher 400-500k and I'm seeing duplexes I can get for less than that… I've canceled out lower-income areas but some are in okay/urban/potential MTR areas.

Tennesse - recommended by a tax strategist (as a STR play put 50k in renovations open under LLC to relieve some of my tax burden). Knoxville area, no state tax, lower prop tax, I've cross-referenced the props I was presented with furnished finder Airbnb and pulled some rental comps in the area to see from all angles MTR, STR, and potential LTR. Maybe a little less than the Texas homes but know nothing firsthand of the state/area beyond the internet and what the agent tells me.

California - feels like a joke for this new investor. After reading David’s book I thought I wanted to househack in California but just couldn’t seem to make the numbers work here in South Orange County, I even got my RE license when I first moved here in hopes of finding a good mentor/broker and eventually use commissions towards a purchase. Was approved for a loan (800+ cr score), just didn’t want to feel “house-poor” and could not make the lack of space make sense after coming from a place like Texas.

After getting prequalified again and changing my strategy to out-of-state, I was out on a trip to Texas this spring visiting a lot of the new builds in the Rockwall area; I flew back through Ontario and saw some of the same builders here advertising homes starting in the 300s here. I grabbed my checkbook and headed to Riverside County that weekend, all to be told I had to get on a list, none were available at the time and they didn’t know when they’d be releasing more. Also taking into consideration CA being a tenant-friendlier state, I’d hate for my first experience to be a bad one. California seems like a distant dream or I’d need to lower my standards considerably.

Initial Goals before becoming disheartened/burned out this spring:

  1. 1) LT buy & hold out of state (Newer build/low maintenance, 3-4 bed, good school district)
  2. 2) Break into CA market. Prop w ADU or casita, the dream would be a cash-flowing multifamily

I'm now getting hung up on SFR v Duplex, LTR v MTR I'd even be willing to dip my toe into the STR for some of these that I've come across that are already set up on Airbnb

If you’re still here thanks for reading what’s basically my life story, but where I’m trying to seek clarity/mentorship is where to start…

area, buy one prop under the first strategy, buy two, don't buy an SFR go straight to duplex, buy out of state conventionally, then use an FHA for a CA prop, most important figures: cap rate, 1% rule, cashflow, etc etc…

I know I will learn a lot along the way and I’m afraid my analysis paralysis is getting the better of me, but for those seasoned investors, I’m pretty sure you have some wisdom/perspective on what I shared above.

Any thoughts would be most helpful. Thank you

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Nicholas L.Pro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y

@Sarah Lacy

happy to dialogue on all of your questions but I cannot recommend strongly enough being willing to either:

(1) invest closer to home - possibly a lower cost market in CA, or NV?  or

(2) spend time in person in the OOS market you choose.

with interest rates where they are, the days of shopping on Zillow, buying a random property, and easily netting several hundred dollars a month are over.  there are actually tons of forum threads by investors in HCOL markets like CA who buy a property in Ohio and Tennessee - and then get absolutely crushed by a tenant turnover, deferred maintenance, or both.  like these two.  easy to search for and find.  just examples!

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/1010977-12-00...

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/524155-averag...

I like that you have a personal connection to Texas.  can you make 3, 4, 6, 12 trips there over the next 12-18 months?  can you invest in NV closer to where you live?

And I also wouldn't give up on house hacking in CA.

See this reply in the discussion

27 Replies

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @Sarah Lacy

    happy to dialogue on all of your questions but I cannot recommend strongly enough being willing to either:

    (1) invest closer to home - possibly a lower cost market in CA, or NV?  or

    (2) spend time in person in the OOS market you choose.

    with interest rates where they are, the days of shopping on Zillow, buying a random property, and easily netting several hundred dollars a month are over.  there are actually tons of forum threads by investors in HCOL markets like CA who buy a property in Ohio and Tennessee - and then get absolutely crushed by a tenant turnover, deferred maintenance, or both.  like these two.  easy to search for and find.  just examples!

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/1010977-12-00...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/524155-averag...

    I like that you have a personal connection to Texas.  can you make 3, 4, 6, 12 trips there over the next 12-18 months?  can you invest in NV closer to where you live?

    And I also wouldn't give up on house hacking in CA.

  • Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Sarah, we have a lot of parallels here and I'd be happy to talk through what I've done.

    My wife and I were in the SF Bay Area (Walnut Creek after being in SF proper for ~8 years) but relocated to Metro Detroit in 2017. We were there for 5 years total. During 2.5 of those years we aggressively built a rental portfolio with the goal of moving back to CA without my wife having to go back to getting a W2.

    We moved back (now on the Central Coast) in mid-2022. And... we're now building and ADU (literally started work today) that we'll operate as a STR.

    The states you listed likely will not get you to a work-optional lifestyle any time soon. You're going to need a heavier cash flowing market. Even then, it will likely be 5+ years before you really start feeling the cash flow moving the needle for you.

    I'm not trying to discourage you, quite the opposite! The best time to start is now but I don't think the areas you're targeting make the most sense given your goals.

  • Joe HammelBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit, MI · Member since 2018 · 614 posts · 666 votes
    2y

    Starting out with $100k is such a great position. Obviously I'm biased, but have you looked in to cash flowing markets? I make $100k a year off 16 properties in the Metro Detroit area..and with $100k you could buy 2-3 of these and get a nice start.

    Here is an outline...

    Purchase: $80k-$130k

    Rent: $1100-$1500 (no rent control in MI)

    1% rule: 1%-1.4% rule deals

    ROI: 10-14%

    Cash flow: $150-$300/door (after all expenses and budgeting for maint, capex, vacancy)

    Appreciation: 3-10%+ (has been double digit for a decade)

    Location: C+, B-

    Tennesse has caught my attention as well...but when things aren't broken it's hard to change... following along to hear what other have to say...

    Here is a pic of my portfolio if you want see examples..

    FIRE Realty Team - Keller Williams5380 Reviews
  • Real Estate Agent · Yorba Linda CA · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 12 votes
    2y

    Hey Sarah, if you did stay local how far are you willing to go outside of South OC to house hack or find a property with an ADU? I saw you said you briefly looked in Riverside which would really be one of the only markets that make sense to do that in right now so if you are willing to go that direction you can find places for $500,000-$600,000 that have some potential.

  • Jimmy LieuBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sarah Lacy:

    Hello,

    I currently live in California and am looking to buy my first rental and trying to decide which state and strategy I should pursue to start.

    A little about me:

    -W2 (remote) - not sure how long will last, so trying to purchase as many props with this stability loan officers like to see

    -up to 100k cash to invest without touching retirement accounts

    -currently saving $3k/ mo to go towards RE, can push higher

    -I would like to be work optional ( build a real estate portfolio) in the next few years so decided to rent to stay more flexible and keep expenses low, well as low as you can for California. I currently bring in 60% of the household income but after my nearly 30% tax bill my partner (1099) brings in just about the same. Ideally would like to live off of my partner's income plus some passive income from real estate investments. But this will affect our savings rate for sure, and I don't see us being able to get conventional loans with my partner's reported SE income right away.

    Moreover, I would like to start a family in the next year or two and be fully present.

    Areas considering:

    Texas - I was born and raised here, lived in all areas along I 35, and experienced the growth firsthand before moving from DFW to California in 2019. I thought as a way to help lower my tax bill I could buy a ‘primary residence’ here … and then rent it out…

    Feel like something that I know these areas, they are no longer in my backyard per se but if I were to ever move back in the future I'd have some property there…

    I'm not sure if my sentiments are clouding my judgment here, but I'm seeing props with 1% LTR and in areas that will be/are booming (hello new Universal Theme Park), duplexes in other/less desirable areas, etc. The SFR are a little higher 400-500k and I'm seeing duplexes I can get for less than that… I've canceled out lower-income areas but some are in okay/urban/potential MTR areas.

    Tennesse - recommended by a tax strategist (as a STR play put 50k in renovations open under LLC to relieve some of my tax burden). Knoxville area, no state tax, lower prop tax, I've cross-referenced the props I was presented with furnished finder Airbnb and pulled some rental comps in the area to see from all angles MTR, STR, and potential LTR. Maybe a little less than the Texas homes but know nothing firsthand of the state/area beyond the internet and what the agent tells me.

    California - feels like a joke for this new investor. After reading David’s book I thought I wanted to househack in California but just couldn’t seem to make the numbers work here in South Orange County, I even got my RE license when I first moved here in hopes of finding a good mentor/broker and eventually use commissions towards a purchase. Was approved for a loan (800+ cr score), just didn’t want to feel “house-poor” and could not make the lack of space make sense after coming from a place like Texas.

    After getting prequalified again and changing my strategy to out-of-state, I was out on a trip to Texas this spring visiting a lot of the new builds in the Rockwall area; I flew back through Ontario and saw some of the same builders here advertising homes starting in the 300s here. I grabbed my checkbook and headed to Riverside County that weekend, all to be told I had to get on a list, none were available at the time and they didn’t know when they’d be releasing more. Also taking into consideration CA being a tenant-friendlier state, I’d hate for my first experience to be a bad one. California seems like a distant dream or I’d need to lower my standards considerably.

    Initial Goals before becoming disheartened/burned out this spring:

    1. 1) LT buy & hold out of state (Newer build/low maintenance, 3-4 bed, good school district)
    2. 2) Break into CA market. Prop w ADU or casita, the dream would be a cash-flowing multifamily

    I'm now getting hung up on SFR v Duplex, LTR v MTR I'd even be willing to dip my toe into the STR for some of these that I've come across that are already set up on Airbnb

    If you’re still here thanks for reading what’s basically my life story, but where I’m trying to seek clarity/mentorship is where to start…

    area, buy one prop under the first strategy, buy two, don't buy an SFR go straight to duplex, buy out of state conventionally, then use an FHA for a CA prop, most important figures: cap rate, 1% rule, cashflow, etc etc…

    I know I will learn a lot along the way and I’m afraid my analysis paralysis is getting the better of me, but for those seasoned investors, I’m pretty sure you have some wisdom/perspective on what I shared above.

    Any thoughts would be most helpful. Thank you

    Hi Sarah, I personally love Columbus Ohio and as someone who works with a lot of out of state investors - there's so many catalysts for why you should invest here. Specifically, there's job growth (Intel, Honda, Amazon, Nationwide, etc) and the population is growing (unlike Cleveland or Cincy). I really see Columbus Ohio as an extremely safe bet for the next 10-20 years. Plus, there's still so many positive cash flowing and 1% deals here in Columbus Ohio. As a local investor and agent here in Columbus, let me know if you have any questions or want to connect!
  • Nate MeekerBusiness Member
    Real Estate CPA | California · Member since 2020 · 544 posts · 251 votes
    2y

    @Sarah Lacy - I think it all depends on lifestyle. If you want to stay in CA long term, first start now with a house hack... even if it doesn't cash flow now, it will most likely be your best investment in the future. 

    Second, grow your cash flow portfolio out of state.

    Third, upgrade your primary in CA and fully rent out the original house hack.

    It's a 5-10 year plan, but it works if your main goal is to stay in CA forever... this is what I did. 

    The CPA Realtor 573 Reviews
  • Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

    Sarah, we have a lot of parallels here and I'd be happy to talk through what I've done.

    My wife and I were in the SF Bay Area (Walnut Creek after being in SF proper for ~8 years) but relocated to Metro Detroit in 2017. We were there for 5 years total. During 2.5 of those years we aggressively built a rental portfolio with the goal of moving back to CA without my wife having to go back to getting a W2.

    We moved back (now on the Central Coast) in mid-2022. And... we're now building and ADU (literally started work today) that we'll operate as a STR.

    The states you listed likely will not get you to a work-optional lifestyle any time soon. You're going to need a heavier cash flowing market. Even then, it will likely be 5+ years before you really start feeling the cash flow moving the needle for you.

    I'm not trying to discourage you, quite the opposite! The best time to start is now but I don't think the areas you're targeting make the most sense given your goals.


    Hi Travis, wow that's awesome. Thank you for sharing your honest feedback! It does give me some food for thought.. I don't mind 5+ year timeline granted I have a thought-out plan ahead of me, or even moving temporarily per se.. however, it must be considered that will reduce the household income and cash that can be used to invest in real estate. My income is remote, my partners not so much. 

    "heavier cash flowing market".. could you give me some more color here? does that mean lower income, up-and-coming areas, is there a number I should have in mind? Maybe even using one of  the theoretical examples below as I'm a visual learner... (these were TX props)..

  • Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nate Meeker:

    @Sarah Lacy - I think it all depends on lifestyle. If you want to stay in CA long term, first start now with a house hack... even if it doesn't cash flow now, it will most likely be your best investment in the future. 

    Second, grow your cash flow portfolio out of state.

    Third, upgrade your primary in CA and fully rent out the original house hack.

    It's a 5-10 year plan, but it works if your main goal is to stay in CA forever... this is what I did. 


    Hi Nathan, thanks for your response! Sage advice. This thread has helped me gain clarity around asking the question that if CA is where I'm going to be/want to be I should get aggressive on having something here (and get in on the appreciation as soon as I can). Even if I have to trade "down" to eventually trade up. But I also know 100k won't get me there in the coastal cities, so I'd probably have to give some serious thought to relocating.. 

     It seems we have some of the same designations (I'm a licensed TX CPA and CA realtor) (= 

  • Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Sarah Lacy

    happy to dialogue on all of your questions but I cannot recommend strongly enough being willing to either:

    (1) invest closer to home - possibly a lower cost market in CA, or NV?  or

    (2) spend time in person in the OOS market you choose.

    with interest rates where they are, the days of shopping on Zillow, buying a random property, and easily netting several hundred dollars a month are over.  there are actually tons of forum threads by investors in HCOL markets like CA who buy a property in Ohio and Tennessee - and then get absolutely crushed by a tenant turnover, deferred maintenance, or both.  like these two.  easy to search for and find.  just examples!

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/1010977-12-00...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/524155-averag...

    I like that you have a personal connection to Texas.  can you make 3, 4, 6, 12 trips there over the next 12-18 months?  can you invest in NV closer to where you live?

    And I also wouldn't give up on house hacking in CA.


     Hi Nicholas, thanks for your speedy reply and recommendations! 

    Geez the turnover costs cited in these forums are bananas! 

    I'd love to invest closer to home (which is now CA), I think that without it I'm missing the opportunity to get hands-on learning. I'm also willing spend some time in TX, specifically the DFW metro because getting around is fairly easier the way the airport is situated. But as I mentioned in another reply, this thread is helping me gain clarity that I do want to break into the CA market, one of the reasons i moved here,  but I'd need considerably more cash to do so. Perhaps I just continue to save and search...

    thanks again!

  • Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Josh Alexander:

    Hey Sarah, if you did stay local how far are you willing to go outside of South OC to house hack or find a property with an ADU? I saw you said you briefly looked in Riverside which would really be one of the only markets that make sense to do that in right now so if you are willing to go that direction you can find places for $500,000-$600,000 that have some potential.


     Hey Josh, thanks for your reply. I can go anywhere, but my partner would be commuting.. but I'd be willing to go to coto de caza, RSM? :)

    In all seriousness,  this is where I get hung up. I love my lifestyle here in CA (i'm at the beach and hiking weekly, if not daily) and riverside... well it's dusty & hot! I moved from Tx after all; so then i look at the numbers and see I can't make anything work here in south OC and then go back to out-of-state investing as my solution until I can get into something here... 

    it's a horrible mind game.. and the best time to start is now.. 

  • Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sarah Lacy:
    Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

    Sarah, we have a lot of parallels here and I'd be happy to talk through what I've done.

    My wife and I were in the SF Bay Area (Walnut Creek after being in SF proper for ~8 years) but relocated to Metro Detroit in 2017. We were there for 5 years total. During 2.5 of those years we aggressively built a rental portfolio with the goal of moving back to CA without my wife having to go back to getting a W2.

    We moved back (now on the Central Coast) in mid-2022. And... we're now building and ADU (literally started work today) that we'll operate as a STR.

    The states you listed likely will not get you to a work-optional lifestyle any time soon. You're going to need a heavier cash flowing market. Even then, it will likely be 5+ years before you really start feeling the cash flow moving the needle for you.

    I'm not trying to discourage you, quite the opposite! The best time to start is now but I don't think the areas you're targeting make the most sense given your goals.


    Hi Travis, wow that's awesome. Thank you for sharing your honest feedback! It does give me some food for thought.. I don't mind 5+ year timeline granted I have a thought-out plan ahead of me, or even moving temporarily per se.. however, it must be considered that will reduce the household income and cash that can be used to invest in real estate. My income is remote, my partners not so much. 

    "heavier cash flowing market".. could you give me some more color here? does that mean lower income, up-and-coming areas, is there a number I should have in mind? Maybe even using one of  the theoretical examples below as I'm a visual learner... (these were TX props)..


     Sure, by "higher cash flowing market" I'm generally referring to the midwest. Yes, homes tend to be lower priced. 

    These examples you're showing... whoever is providing you these is selling you hopes and dreams. 

    The biggest red flag here is your maintenance and capex lines items. There is ZERO chance these stay true to reality. I don't care if this house is newly renovated or even new construction. You have to put some money away for these items.

    Usually, I'm assigning 20% of gross rents to capex/repairs/vacancy as a bucket line item. That's probably a bit high but I like to be conservative. I don't usually see folks going below 15% here. 

    For reference, your first example is assigning about 7% gross rents to that bucket. 

    The other thing I don't like is that they are showing some return values that include principal pay down. There's really no reason to do this unless they are trying to distract from the actual (low) CoC returns.

  • Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Travis Biziorek:
    Quote from @Sarah Lacy:
    Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

    Sarah, we have a lot of parallels here and I'd be happy to talk through what I've done.

    My wife and I were in the SF Bay Area (Walnut Creek after being in SF proper for ~8 years) but relocated to Metro Detroit in 2017. We were there for 5 years total. During 2.5 of those years we aggressively built a rental portfolio with the goal of moving back to CA without my wife having to go back to getting a W2.

    We moved back (now on the Central Coast) in mid-2022. And... we're now building and ADU (literally started work today) that we'll operate as a STR.

    The states you listed likely will not get you to a work-optional lifestyle any time soon. You're going to need a heavier cash flowing market. Even then, it will likely be 5+ years before you really start feeling the cash flow moving the needle for you.

    I'm not trying to discourage you, quite the opposite! The best time to start is now but I don't think the areas you're targeting make the most sense given your goals.


    Hi Travis, wow that's awesome. Thank you for sharing your honest feedback! It does give me some food for thought.. I don't mind 5+ year timeline granted I have a thought-out plan ahead of me, or even moving temporarily per se.. however, it must be considered that will reduce the household income and cash that can be used to invest in real estate. My income is remote, my partners not so much. 

    "heavier cash flowing market".. could you give me some more color here? does that mean lower income, up-and-coming areas, is there a number I should have in mind? Maybe even using one of  the theoretical examples below as I'm a visual learner... (these were TX props)..


     Sure, by "higher cash flowing market" I'm generally referring to the midwest. Yes, homes tend to be lower priced. 

    These examples you're showing... whoever is providing you these is selling you hopes and dreams. 

    The biggest red flag here is your maintenance and capex lines items. There is ZERO chance these stay true to reality. I don't care if this house is newly renovated or even new construction. You have to put some money away for these items.

    Usually, I'm assigning 20% of gross rents to capex/repairs/vacancy as a bucket line item. That's probably a bit high but I like to be conservative. I don't usually see folks going below 15% here. 

    For reference, your first example is assigning about 7% gross rents to that bucket. 

    The other thing I don't like is that they are showing some return values that include principal pay down. There's really no reason to do this unless they are trying to distract from the actual (low) CoC returns.


     HA! love it, thanks Travis very helpful! :)

  • Bonnie LowPro Member
    Lender · Asheville, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    You're definitely stuck in analysis paralysis, which is common. You have a lot going for you, so don't hesitate to take advantage of it. I think one of the things holding you back is that you're wanting to make sure you make the right decision and I get that. I'm like that, too. But there is no one right decision. There are just options. As a fellow CA investor I completely understand the challenges of investing here. There are some lower cost areas in this enormous state (like far norther CA or the Central Valley) but I'd stay away from any exceptionally tenant-friendly cities like many of the Bay Area cities. It is entirely possible to buy your first property out of state and do well with it. And it doesn't really matter all that much which state you buy in. If you look around, you'll find someone doing well pretty much anywhere - even in some of the most unlikely places. You just have to buy it right and put the right strategy in place. Look into the midwest to get your feet wet. You can find sub-$200k properties that will cash flow, especially if you implement MTR, STR or a hybrid MTR/STR strategy. Start small, get comfortable. But whatever you do, spend some time in the area before you buy so you can get to know it. There are a lot of people who get seduced by low costs and "cash cow" properties advertised by Realtors and wholesalers only to be duped into buying something that is in a D neighborhood or right next to it. Ultimately, those properties end up costing you money and can be hard to offload. For someone with your resources it should be easy to narrow it down to a couple of markets, go visit them, meet with a few local Realtors, go to a few meetups and get a feel for the area so you know that what you're buying is solid.

  • Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bonnie Low:

    You're definitely stuck in analysis paralysis, which is common. You have a lot going for you, so don't hesitate to take advantage of it. I think one of the things holding you back is that you're wanting to make sure you make the right decision and I get that. I'm like that, too. But there is no one right decision. There are just options. As a fellow CA investor I completely understand the challenges of investing here. There are some lower cost areas in this enormous state (like far norther CA or the Central Valley) but I'd stay away from any exceptionally tenant-friendly cities like many of the Bay Area cities. It is entirely possible to buy your first property out of state and do well with it. And it doesn't really matter all that much which state you buy in. If you look around, you'll find someone doing well pretty much anywhere - even in some of the most unlikely places. You just have to buy it right and put the right strategy in place. Look into the midwest to get your feet wet. You can find sub-$200k properties that will cash flow, especially if you implement MTR, STR or a hybrid MTR/STR strategy. Start small, get comfortable. But whatever you do, spend some time in the area before you buy so you can get to know it. There are a lot of people who get seduced by low costs and "cash cow" properties advertised by Realtors and wholesalers only to be duped into buying something that is in a D neighborhood or right next to it. Ultimately, those properties end up costing you money and can be hard to offload. For someone with your resources it should be easy to narrow it down to a couple of markets, go visit them, meet with a few local Realtors, go to a few meetups and get a feel for the area so you know that what you're buying is solid.

    @Bonnie Low solid sound advice. thank you :)

  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @Sarah Lacy

    a fresh post from a west coast investor getting crushed.  more of what not to do.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/1157124-remot...

  • Damond MatthewsPro Member
    Member since 2023 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    2y

    It sounds like you have given a lot of thought to your real estate investment strategy and have several factors to consider. Here are some suggestions and perspectives that might help you in making your decision:

    1. Prioritizing Stability and Flexibility: Given your situation, it’s wise to prioritize investments that offer both stability and flexibility. Since you’re considering starting a family soon and your partner's income is variable, choosing investments that provide consistent cash flow would be beneficial.

    2. Texas as an Investment Location: Your familiarity with Texas, combined with your firsthand experience of its growth, is a significant advantage. Investing in areas you know well can reduce some risks associated with real estate investment. The idea of buying a primary residence in Texas and then renting it out could work, but be sure to understand the legal and tax implications of this strategy.

    3. Tennessee as an Alternative: The strategy suggested by your tax strategist for Tennessee involves renovating and renting properties, potentially as short-term rentals (STRs). While this could be lucrative, it also requires more active management. Ensure you're comfortable with the additional effort and risks associated with STRs, especially in an area you’re not familiar with.

    4. California Real Estate Market: It’s clear that the high prices and tenant-friendly laws in California are major concerns for you. While house hacking might be challenging in South Orange County, exploring other areas in California where the numbers might work better could be an option. However, balancing the desire to invest in California with the realities of the market is crucial.

    5. Investment Property Type: The decision between single-family residences (SFRs) and duplexes largely depends on your investment goals and risk tolerance. Duplexes can offer higher rental income but might come with more management challenges. SFRs, on the other hand, tend to attract longer-term tenants.

    6. Financing Strategies: Using an FHA loan for a California property is a good strategy, as it allows for a lower down payment. You could potentially use conventional loans for out-of-state properties. However, be aware of the lending criteria for non-owner-occupied properties.

    7. Key Investment Metrics: Focus on the most important figures for your situation, such as cash flow, cap rate, and the 1% rule. These metrics will help you evaluate properties based on your financial goals and risk profile.

    8. Overcoming Analysis Paralysis: Since you have a tendency towards analysis paralysis, setting clear, achievable goals can help. Perhaps start with one property that meets your criteria and learn from that experience. This step-by-step approach can build your confidence and knowledge in real estate investing.

    9. Seeking Mentorship: Finding a mentor or joining a real estate investment group can provide valuable insights and support. Learning from others’ experiences can be incredibly beneficial, especially when starting out.

    10. Long-Term Perspective: Remember that real estate investing is a long-term venture. While immediate cash flow is important, also consider the potential for property appreciation and portfolio diversification.

    Given your goals and current situation, starting with a single property in a familiar market like Texas might be a wise choice. This allows you to leverage your knowledge of the area while managing the risks associated with out-of-state investing. As you gain experience and confidence, you can then expand your portfolio and explore other markets and property types.

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Sarah Lacy

    a fresh post from a west coast investor getting crushed.  more of what not to do.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/1157124-remot...


     I'm glad you brought that thread up because every day we see posts like this on here, along with posts like Sarah's asking where to invest. The irony of it all. OP, definitely read that thread and all the other similar ones on here over the years. Investments are priced for risk. I'd say wherever you invest don't buy the cheapest property, go for at least the median. Having a great team in place is probably just as important as picking a market with good underlying fundamentals (a diverse JOBS market (ideally recession-resistant jobs like in govt., education, healthcare, defense), population growth, desirability, affordability, favorable weather and landlord/tenant laws). Starting off investing is hard enough if you live in the property (house hacking is probably the best and safest way to learn actually), and even harder and higher risk when doing it remotely. I make sure all my new purchases are within 30-45 minutes of my house and within 1 mile or two max from a hardware store. 

  • Jake AndronicoBusiness Member
    Realtor · Reno, NV · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 938 votes
    2y

    @Sarah Lacy

    Congrats!! What an amazing place to be. Good for you. 

    I'm obviously bias, but you may want to consider Reno, NV as well. My family and I are from Cali and have most of our net worth in RE investments here now. 

    I was invested long before becoming an agent here. 

    Cali investors are typically attracted because of: 

    - No state income tax

    - 3rd lowest property taxes in the Nation (and they don't reassess on the sale)

    - Landlord friendly

    - Stable job growth, population growth, and more tech consistently coming to the area

    - High appreciation/higher rents

    - World class vacation destination right over the hill (Lake Tahoe)

    - Close to Cali and only a drive/short flight away

    No place will feel perfect. Balancing making the best financial, emotional, and lifestyle decision is always difficult. 

    No matter what/where you decide, I wish you the best of luck!!

  • Member since 2021 · 376 posts · 242 votes
    2y

    @Sarah Lacy

    Since you are a remote worker that is currently renting; you have a lot of freedom in terms of mobility which you can really use to your advantage. I would say the best starting strategy I would offer is house-hacking. As you have mentioned, house hacking in CA is proving difficult for you since the prices there are very high. Since you have mobility options; you can use this as an opportunity to move somewhere new and house hack in a market with lower entry cost. Pick an area you would personally want to live in, and then see how the cost, tenant-landlord laws, and other factors are in that market. I am personally house hacking in New Orleans at the moment. Although it took a long time to find a property where the numbers worked, there are still areas where this can be a very lucrative entry strategy that can pay dividends in the long run and also allow you to get a foot in the door to both gain experience and build equity with real estate. 

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sarah Lacy:

    Hello,

    I currently live in California and am looking to buy my first rental and trying to decide which state and strategy I should pursue to start.

    just househack in Riverside for beginning, nothing beats that strategy.

    Worst strategy is renting in CA and have CF OOS.

  • Rental Property Investor · Queens, NY · Member since 2021 · 35 posts · 6 votes
    2y

    @Sarah Lacy

    First and foremost congratulations for putting yourself out there and swinging for the fences! Fear can paralyze you or fuel you! A lot to consider!

    -mentors who are actually in the business and active.

    -creating a team for out of state investing

    (Attorney/property management/title company/inspector/contractor/handyman/ insurance company) etc

    -master the numbers! YouTube 1% rule or 50% rule basic fundamental formulas used for cashflow calculation

    I own real estate out of state in MI, AL and now NY. I have long term tenants some of which are on programs and mid term tenants who are travel professionals. Feel free to message me and we can talk further to create a solid game plan! Well wishes.

  • Kerry Noble JrPro Member
    Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Keep Central IN on your radar also

  • Member since 2023 · 1 post · 0 votes
    2y

    Hello, I am also from SoCal, new to this forum and trying to dip my toes into REI. This thread has been very helpful to me as well! (sorry for lurking) Sounds like house hacking here in CA is the way to go. Would probably have to add an ADU on my backyward to do this. Thank you for the insights.

  • Andrew W.Pro Member
    Investor · CT · Member since 2023 · 30 posts · 9 votes
    2y

    @Sarah Lacy

    I spent the first 40 years of my life in OC, next 8 in SD and now I live in CT. The one thing that I feel many investors overlook in SoCal in particular is the appreciation factor. Obviously this will very but it's a much different consideration than in many markets. It's easy to look out of state and find a SFR you can pay cash for with your $100k. But what's the best case scenario you earn a few hundred a month? That's fine of course but you would need what 40 of these to live comfortably in OC (maybe 80 to live in Coto :) ) I would seriously consider investing locally. From a long term appreciation standpoint it's hard to beat. I bought my first home in Irvine (new construction) in 99 for 287k. It recently sold for $1.2 million (I sold it in 04 for $660k). I have other personal similar examples. The inland empire might be a consideration due to lower prices. Also Carlsbad, Camp Pendleton area are great rental markets and growing like crazy. SoCal is a unique market (OC in particular). I think it would take a significant amount of capital to generate sufficient monthly passive income to live on, but if you are looking to get into real estate investing, I think it is an excellent market.

  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    You need to just start doing your homework and understanding how you want to move, depending on how you define your end goal. All these posts really do is just get people to pitch their city to you, or lenders pitching you for their help-- which maybe that's the attention you want I don't know.

    This forum has tons, and tons, of excellent information. Do your homework, and no, you don't need to read the dumb books, listen to podcasts, etc. You just need to more or less define your goal and kind  of work backwards; that'll create your forward moving strategy. The givens though in any quest are the same-- be in position to hold for 10 years or longer(ideally) and keep ample dry powder. If you're not committing to those two, don't bother entering this "investment". 

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