Be Careful! Personal Safety.

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Be Careful! Personal Safety.

Timothy W.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I got a call from a friend of mine today who does rentals in another part of the country in a "nice" town. While inspecting potential deals he walked in on a dead rape victim.

Folks, when you're inspecting property - especially vacant property - you need to take care of yourself. Never forget that no matter how nice a town you are in, you are operating "behind closed doors". No matter how pretty, wealthy, or "nice" they are - people behave one way in public and hide their secrets "behind closed doors". When you go there, you leave the safety of the public eye and familliar territory. You are in someone else's territory and need to have a heightened level of awareness. I am a 6'3, 260 lb martial arts practitioner and I never go into vacant property alone and I always have a 3' maglight and a "tactical" grade folding knife with me at minimum. I have never needed either yet and would frankly prefer to run like hell than ever get into a fight in someone else's territory (and not just for legal concerns) but the reality of the world is that there are bad people out there who are not governed by reason and must therefore be governed by other means.

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    18y

    Great advice, Tim. I don't think people think of the dangers that exist out there. Thanks for reiterating the need to be cautious when going into other people's turf.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
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  • Account Closed
    OR · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 845 votes
    18y

    It's not just that some people are different in private.

    No matter how nice the neighborhood, the bad guys have cars. They don't just operate in their own neighborhood, or even in their own town.

    In fact, if they are going out doing home invasions or other crimes, they are going to get into their car and go to where it is more porfitable.

    Just because they don't live in nice neigborhoods, doesn't mean they don't rob and murder in nice neighborhoods.

    In addition, the populatoion just seems to be getting nuttier all the time.

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  • Mark N.A
    Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
    18y

    I am going to let my partner/fiance read your post, Tim. As much as I warn her, she still likes wandering around and inside vacant properties.

    The last time I wandered with her I was on the second story of a vacant house. I decided to look inside a closet. When I pulled on the door it pulled back. I still have a pucker mark on my undewear.

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  • Sue In Denver
    Real Estate Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2008 · 64 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    Oh my gosh! I'm glad for this reminder....I go through 20-30 properties a week! Yes they are in good neighborhoods but I'd be looking for a new line of work if I saw a dead mouse, much less a dead body! Eeeeek!

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  • Jason Hanson
    Real Estate Coach · Oakton, VA · Member since 2008 · 695 posts · 43 votes
    18y

    Tim,

    Great post. Everytime I go into a vacant property I bring a knife with me and also a big Mag flashlight.

    Of course you always need to trust your gut. If something doesn't feel right, then get the hell out of there.

    This also applies when meeting with a seller. I have been in situations where a person invited me into their house (one instance was several large men who lived together) and I declined, because something didn't feel right.

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  • Account Closed
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2008 · 691 posts · 12 votes
    18y

    I think it was Tim who once said in a post that a person who owns fly-over properties can leave a Glock in a safety deposit box, fly in , pick it up, and then visit your properties. Not a bad idea... :rock:

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  • Timothy W.
    OP
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    18y

    It wasn't me but I do remember that post. I do like that idea.

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  • Account Closed
    Tucson, AZ · Member since 2008 · 945 posts · 45 votes
    18y

    My agent said they get classes, safety tips, and reminders at various seminars here about that very thing. It didn't occur to me to, but maybe I'll carry, when I go looking. I've never gone into someplace alone, but have gone to check the exterior and the neighborhood.

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  • Tom C
    Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 86 votes
    18y

    I am not sure about other states but Ohio has a affirmative defense, called "Prudent Man going Armed". Even if you do not have a conceal carry license, you can still carry a hand gun, if you carry large sums of cash or value items during the course of your travels. Which would qualify a landlord. Being a former cop and knowing the risks of walking into a vacant home. I would never search a vacant home without my weapon. More for my agents protection then for my own.

    You can check your state laws on affirmative defenses easily by checking your Revised Code online. Keep in mind, this doesn't prevent you from being charged, it's only a legal defense as to why you were carrying a gun.

    On the same note, I have been in some vacant homes are just plain and simple death traps. So it's not only the crackhead you have to worry about.

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  • Michael Rossi
    Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    18y

    Most states now have concealed carry laws and I highly encourage anyone in this business to get their concealed carry license. I force myself to carry my handgun at all times when working. In fact, my wife always asks me if I have my handgun before I leave the house.

    The fact is that in this business, we not only have the chance of meeting a criminal by accident in a vacant property, but we also meet criminals on a daily basis in the rental business (they are called applicants). Not every low income person is a criminal, but nearly all criminals live in low income rentals! Just today, I ran two druggies off my property (my latest apartment building). They were there to get drugs from the drug dealer that I evicted a month ago! (they must not have gotten an address change memo from the dealer)

    In addition to all that, if you're in this business, it's very easy to accumulate a bunch of enemies and you never know when they're going to go postal. People tend to take it personally when you evict them; turn them down for a rental; have their Section 8 cancelled; have them arrested for drug activity; etc. It can take months or years for their anger to build to the point that they go postal!

    So, my advice is to be prepared to defend yourself at all times. You have a constitutional right to carry a gun and I suggest exercising it!

    Mike

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  • Matthew Gil
    Real Estate Investor · Member since 2008 · 340 posts · 34 votes
    18y

    Learned this one from my best friend, who also happens to be a real estate appraiser...

    When entering an abandoned property I "announce" (shout) myself before I enter the property.

    Gives the crack head or squatter a chance to bolt out the backdoor.

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  • Matthew Gil
    Real Estate Investor · Member since 2008 · 340 posts · 34 votes
    18y

    What sucks is that I live in the People's Republic of Illinois and we can't carry and conceal.

    Now, having said that, when I have gone into more "challenged" neighborhoods, I have brought a "deterrent" with me. Since, the police won't escort me through a crappy property.

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  • Michael Juve
    Real Estate Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2008 · 68 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    I can't carry a gun with me. But if I piss someone off and they know where to find me there are things around here that go bang in the night.

    But I'm nto getting into rentals so I won't worry about that. :wink:

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  • Anna NA
    Real Estate Investor · The Northeast, NH · Member since 2008 · 46 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    This makes me feel so much better, and confirms I'm not a paranoid freak for bringing a weapon with me when I went to look at properties.

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  • Rich Urban
    Real Estate Coach · Jensen Beach, FL · Member since 2008 · 45 posts · 5 votes
    18y

    Ya, you should be careful. Considering that my "Investor Key" is a crowbar..I feel rather armed..:)

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  • Robin Vidovich
    Real Estate Investor · Reading, PA · Member since 2008 · 227 posts · 7 votes
    18y

    Typerider,
    Thanks for the laugh. Shared your story with my husband. We laughed for quite a while but you made a very good point. You never know. As a woman doing the investing (husband really loves his day job) I am quite aware of my surroundings. Have been fortunate so far but know that my husban worries about my safety.

    Does any one know if you need a permit to carry a taser or stun gun?

    Thanks.

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  • Michael Rossi
    Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    18y

    Here is a chart of the state laws regarding Tasers:

    http://taser.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Controlled%20Documents/Legal/7-2007%20State%20Statute%20Chart.pdf

    Good Luck,

    Mike

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  • Rajendra Mackinley
    Commercial Real Estate Agent · San francisco, CA · Member since 2008 · 50 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    thanks for the advice Tim..another thing it's hard to trust someone, when inspecting you should have friends or a family member with you...

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  • David F.
    Ontario · Member since 2008 · 30 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Hi all,

    For the longest time, I have wanted to invest in real estate. I have the drive, passion, creativity, and persistence and I know how to effectively leverage my resources. 3 years later...I am still a talker and not a doer. My greatest fear with real estate is exactly what this thread is dealing with. The fact is, is that you are walking behind closed doors and anything can happen and that scares the living !@!#!#!@!# (radio edit) out of me and has prevented me from pursuing this great industry. Reading about guns, and knives..I just don't know....

    I don't know what I'm looking for; maybe I need someone to quell my fears. I can imagine that a lot of these issues come up when inspecting vacant houses. But scarier still are these issues that pop up in "normal houses" in "normal communiites". For every house I go to do I need to bring someone else, and we are both armed?

    I would really appreciate any advice.

    THE HUN.

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  • Justin W
    Renter · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2008 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Sweet zombie jesus on a pogo stick! A dead rape victim? That's insane. Crap like that is the kind of thing that haunts dreams forever.

    Man, I was just in a gun shop the other day, and now I'm REALLY interested in getting a pistol (and fitting my lady with one too... :( )

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  • Michael Rossi
    Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    18y

    With a name like "The Hun", you shouldn't have any fears, especially if your first name is Atilla. In all seriousness, I'm not sure that fear is warranted, but caution and vigilance certainly is. I never take anyone with me when I meet applicants or tenants. I have contact with convicted felons; drug dealers; and drug addicts on a daily basis and have not had a serious incident yet.

    However, yesterday, I did get into an uncomfortable situation. It was toward the end of the day and I had several thousand dollars in cash (rent money) in my pocket. Someone called me about looking at a 2 bedroom house. I didn't especially like the looks of them and felt a little uncomfortable while I was showing them the basement of the house. I kept a few extra feet separation from them and kept them in front of me at all times. Of course, I was prepared to defend my self if necessary.

    Anyway, caution is warranted, but fear is probably not.

    Good Luck,

    Mike

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  • Timothy W.
    OP
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    18y

    "It was toward the end of the day and I had several thousand dollars in cash (rent money) in my pocket."

    Mike,
    A friend of mine had a false bottom made for the center console of his car. He stores rent cash under it. Was very cheaply made and it let him store his cash somewhere other than the pocket.

    Tim

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  • Donald M.
    Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2008 · 102 posts · 10 votes
    18y

    I just moved to a new city and was planning on going alone to meet with sellers, see their property, and discuss offers. I don't really know anyone here. Reading this thread has made me somewhat nervous. Any advice on how to find someone to go with me to these places?

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  • Michael Rossi
    Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    18y

    Ask a friend of family member.

    Mike

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  • Rita Temple
    Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 46 posts · 3 votes
    18y

    OMG ! That is an aweful story! I could never imagine such a thing, nor do I want to! :shock: :oops: It would definately be nice to beable to carry a concealed weapon, some cities are just hard to get a permit. I'm looking in to getting a stun gun, maybe as an alternative. The worst I've seen so far is while looking at foreclosures is sleeping bags and people poo in the back yard.

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