I'm looking to network with other investors that own properties in the Great Smokey mountains. I'm an investor in Columbus, OH. I love the south and a recent visit to the mountains spraked some interest in that market. I'd like to start a dicussion with other investors that have invested in rental Cabins to see what their experience was like.
I closed on our first short term rental (ever) and in Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg in early December 2019. I looked all over the US for a property. We were doing a 1031 exchange from a long term rental. I didn't want to do Florida and the Gatlinburg area shows up as one of the top areas to invest. We have an outstanding, more than full-service Realtor, Crystal Johnson at the Jason White Team. She patiently worked with me long distance as I waited for the first property to sell, including sending videos of properties. Most importantly she understands my insistence on a good ROI and my exhaustive spreadsheet with ever possible expense accounted for. Which wasn't a problem as she owns her own rentals. She has contractors, and one of them was able to the required work done for us to get our short term rental permit in just two weeks. Our first renters arrive on 12/26. With the help of Crystal and the team at our property management company, TimberTops (as known as Amazin View Cabin Rentals), the cabin will be ready in time. TimberTops is a full-service management company that does take more than 20% but they have their own cleaning and maintenance staff with 24-hour guest support. They helped me set up the cabin by accepting furniture deliveries, installing TV's, meeting the cable guy, etc. They also do all of my marketing and set my nightly rates. Many of the listings here include verified income but for those that didn't, I had the property manager provide an estimate of gross income. My realtor has a friend who decorated the cabin for Christmas for me. It has been an amazing, crazy, exciting and exhausting month.
I just looked at some his past week. My realtor assured me it’s better than Orlando. There seems to be 20% + property management fees, I’m used to 10%. A home for 800k grossed 115k and netted 67k. Not great but not bad. I’m wondering if being 20 min away versus 10 from Gburg matters much.
We are closing on our first cabin next month- very excited! I plan to self-manage through Airbnb and VRBO from California and utilize a team of local maintenance and cleaning companies. The cabin we are buying is at 80k gross rents for 2019 (so about 40k net) but I think we can do a little better managing it ourself. Purchase price was 555k for a 4/4 with INCREDIBLE Mountain View’s and views of Dollywood roller coaster and fireworks! The biggest challenge in that market, in my opinion, if finding a good property because most are priced 100k over and there just aren’t many available to begin with. You have to work with a great realtor and be willing to put in an offer sight unseen when something good comes up. It took us 3 mos to find our cabin
@Jenn Rees, congratulations! I have a friend who just bought her 2nd cabin there. What is your average daily rent going to be? My friend's biggest challenge was finding reliable cleaning people. She says they often don't show up. She and her boyfriend are handling that themselves for now.
Diana we went with Matt and Annie Maloney- very happy with them! Aly we don’t take over our calendar until January 1 but I am already having trouble getting in touch with a cleaning company!
My friend says that because the area is booming with AirBnB's, many cleaners simply take on too many cabins. I'm considering going down there for a visit next month to scout it out. My husband and I own long term rentals in Florida, and are considering expanding into STRs. But the cleaning issue has me worried - we live in NJ.
Hello all, I own a property in Pigeon Forge area and yes cleaning companies are the biggest issue. Finding reliable people is hard, but returns so far were good. I've started renting out end of September and my calendar full through the end of December. Usually I have people check in and check out at the same day, those days are very nervous :) since I have to make sure cleaning is done on-time. Does anyone on this thread can share any contacts of good cleaning company or person?
@Ivan Solovyev if your housekeeper is making you nervous by all means fire them. There are hundreds of threads on the Short Term Rental forum about this market. Go do some searching you'll find all kinds of info.
We are closing on our first cabin next month- very excited! I plan to self-manage through Airbnb and VRBO from California and utilize a team of local maintenance and cleaning companies. The cabin we are buying is at 80k gross rents for 2019 (so about 40k net) but I think we can do a little better managing it ourself. Purchase price was 555k for a 4/4 with INCREDIBLE Mountain View’s and views of Dollywood roller coaster and fireworks! The biggest challenge in that market, in my opinion, if finding a good property because most are priced 100k over and there just aren’t many available to begin with. You have to work with a great realtor and be willing to put in an offer sight unseen when something good comes up. It took us 3 mos to find our cabin
Priced 100k higher than what exactly? Not sure what you mean by that. If a cabin (SFH) appraises for what the buyer is trying to pay for it then that is what is worth. There are 10,000+ cabins in the area there are plenty to pick from!
My friend says that because the area is booming with AirBnB's, many cleaners simply take on too many cabins. I'm considering going down there for a visit next month to scout it out. My husband and I own long term rentals in Florida, and are considering expanding into STRs. But the cleaning issue has me worried - we live in NJ.
This market is STR only. There are plenty of cleaners that have been doing this their entire lives. And so did their parents and their grandparents. It's no different than running any other type of business. Hire fast, fire faster.
@Jenn Rees, congratulations! I have a friend who just bought her 2nd cabin there. What is your average daily rent going to be? My friend's biggest challenge was finding reliable cleaning people. She says they often don't show up. She and her boyfriend are handling that themselves for now.
Rent greatly depends on sq ft and number of bedrooms. Check out airdna, beyond pricing, and your competition on airbnb to get a good idea on pricing.
Cleaners are easy to find if you know where to look and you treat them right.
I closed on our first short term rental (ever) and in Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg in early December 2019. I looked all over the US for a property. We were doing a 1031 exchange from a long term rental. I didn't want to do Florida and the Gatlinburg area shows up as one of the top areas to invest. We have an outstanding, more than full-service Realtor, Crystal Johnson at the Jason White Team. She patiently worked with me long distance as I waited for the first property to sell, including sending videos of properties. Most importantly she understands my insistence on a good ROI and my exhaustive spreadsheet with ever possible expense accounted for. Which wasn't a problem as she owns her own rentals. She has contractors, and one of them was able to the required work done for us to get our short term rental permit in just two weeks. Our first renters arrive on 12/26. With the help of Crystal and the team at our property management company, TimberTops (as known as Amazin View Cabin Rentals), the cabin will be ready in time. TimberTops is a full-service management company that does take more than 20% but they have their own cleaning and maintenance staff with 24-hour guest support. They helped me set up the cabin by accepting furniture deliveries, installing TV's, meeting the cable guy, etc. They also do all of my marketing and set my nightly rates. Many of the listings here include verified income but for those that didn't, I had the property manager provide an estimate of gross income. My realtor has a friend who decorated the cabin for Christmas for me. It has been an amazing, crazy, exciting and exhausting month.
@Doreen M ODonovan we generally find that anyone using a PM in this market, especially a local PM, doesn’t make any money. In fact they often write a check at the end of the month. Hopefully you have better luck! Can easily self manage remotely if you so desire down the road.
I have a friend who just bought her 3rd cabin there. She moved from CA to TN for a year to stabilize the operation, as reliable cleaning has been a big problem. She's often had to do it herself when the cleaning person didn't show up or couldn't take on any more jobs.
But the thought of paying more than 20% for a management company is shocking. My husband and I own long term rentals in FL, which we self manage from NJ (our contractor is in FL for repairs). I can't imagine a 20% fee on top of the usual expenses - and then you have the *un*usual expenses.
But congratulations @Doreen M ODonovan, I wish you the best and we are still considering the area. Looking forward to more information.
It s interesting how PM companies want 20% or more for management that is automated. When you ask a PM company to put their own skin in the game via a master lease with them at 10% they all decline. Makes one wonder if they are not confident in making a profit via a master lease agreement then why be confident in their ability in PM and marketing?
@Aly W. The numbers are so different with short term rentals. We are looking at $100,000 a year gross. We would never see that with a long term rental. And the manager’s responsibilities are constant, so worth a lot more. I plan to make 2-3 times what I made on the previous house with the same investment and the much higher expenses. Time will tell but our first two bookings are covering the first two months mortgage.
Does anyone know any reputable cleaners in the Gatlinburg area? We are having a hard time finding anyone. Does close on our cabin in the next two weeks. Thanks!
@Maria King There are a lot of good private individuals or couples that clean cabins, and I understand most do a decent job. if you want someone larger, check out Mountaineer Cleaning & Maintenance. I use them for some of mine.
About to close on my first 2 cabins in gatlinburg/pigeon forge. Picked up two 3/3 bath properties with good views. One was owner occupied and doesn’t have a hot tub. Does anyone have any recommendations for that? I live in Atlanta and found a good deal on an 8 person hot tub here and thought I could just rent a UHaul and bring it myself, but then wondered if the savings would be worth the hassle. Just wanted to check with you all to see if anyone has any hot tub referrals or any experience getting one.
There are a number of models sold locally There and most use common parts. Problem with bringing one in from elsewhere is that when you need local support, repair folks may not be familiar with it or parts could be different or harder to get. Especially if you will rely on a handyman or maintenance company.
I don’t think its worth the gamble, but its your call.
@Chuck Kramer Thanks Chuck. Does having one really increase the ST Occupancy or rates in your opinion? I’ve thought about not even putting one in, but if not having one detracts from the occupancy rate, I’ll grab one quick.