I'm New, I Don't Know What to Do...Yet - Gurus and Gotchas

I'm New, I Don't Know What to Do...Yet - Gurus and Gotchas

Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 1 vote

Feel free to laugh with me (or at me, whichever) as I begin my journey into real estate investing...

So I went to a “free investment advice” session, found via Instagram. Must be legit. Doug Hopkins, star of the Discovery Channel's hit tv show Property Wars wants to make me rich.

I get it, I know the sales tactics and pitches. I, along with the founder of a fledgling social good technology startup hell-bent on changing the world raised a sizable seed round of equity financing from private investors in New York City, many of whom scared the daylights out of me and their employees on a minutely basis. The story we told was a compelling one, even for those hardened hedge fund boys. Needless to say, I know a good story when I hear one.

I listened to the smooth talking friend of Doug Hopkins tell us how we could create a brand new life for ourselves through their tried and true investment strategies, all we had to do was sign up and put down the investment in ourselves of $2000 (reduced from the normal $5000) required to attend the 3-day accelerator event that would tell us all we ever needed to know about real estate investing. They used all of the tactics (emotional appeal, cheap suits, bad cologne) to reel us in and guess what, I was hooked!

I'm not a slow person. I knew it was a sales pitch from the get-go (the session was free in a world where nothing is remember?), but that fact was trumped by the idea that these guys could connect me with lending partners that would put up 100% of the value of home and let me keep the profits. Not to mention that they had access to listings for REO and pre-foreclosure properties that don't show up on an MLS listing. I wanted those listings. This seemed like a plausible way to get them quickly.

After the emotions and thrill of the chase that the smooth talkers evoked in me subsided, I did what I should’ve done in the first place - looked. I looked online for other resources. Not one said - “Hey, paying for gurus is a great idea, well done!” I told my uncle about the event - he scolded me and said, “You better get your money back. Like now.” I agreed, so I did. No harm no foul. (As a side note, when I called to get my money back, the gentleman on the other end of line offered to reduce the price an additional $1000 for relocation costs - lesson learned, they can always go lower.)

The questions I have for the Bigger Pockets community are:

1) Was I wrong in thinking that access to lending partners willing to put up a high percentage of the property value (regardless of personal credit) was something to be valued? And if not, what channels are others using for access to capital (especially those that have student loan debt to choke down every month and few assets to their name)?

2) Is it worth it to pay for access to curated listings of pre-foreclosure and REO properties as a newbie who doesn't have the connections for access elsewhere? What methods are others using to gain access to these same listings without having to pay for them?

I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts...until next, time happy investing.

1Reply
19 views

Most Popular Reply

Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y

And to build on Christopher's reply:

1.  The way you find lenders is locally, not typically through online searches of National hard money lenders.  National guys have to rely on appraisals and other people's title companies, and must build in extra fees to compensate for their lack of knowledge of the local market. Attend REIAs and Real Estate meetups in your area and ask around.  You can find lenders local to you on directories such as the Bigger Pockets Hard Money lender directory, but be sure to ask around locally before you commit to them.  Real estate agents are not your best source of information, other real estate investors are.  

It is important to find someone reputable.  The hard money business is full of slick operators, and many times you don't know about fees until you show up at the closing table. Or your actual terms for that matter.  Once you have established a relationship and history with a local lender, your terms can improve.  Go for reputation above price.  

2.  Christopher is right, thousands of other investors are looking at those lists.  The skill of finding the deal is the holy grail of real estate investing.  You can learn or hire fixing it up, you can find money fairly easily, but finding the deal is the gold.  Study the forums on marketing, they will help you with marketing for deals.  

See this reply in the discussion

9 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor · Rockwall, TX · Member since 2015 · 891 posts · 701 votes
    10y

    1) There are literally tens of thousands of lenders out there, all offering various terms and willing to do different deals. I highly doubt they have lenders who are willing to finance a high % of the ARV and don't care about your personal credit. That's just bad business. If you don't have good credit or a favorable personal income, you need to find a good deal. There are many hard money lenders which will evaluate the deal and the deal alone. There are also many investors that would be happy to partner with you and bring the cash, if there is sufficient profit to be made. Based on my experience, getting money is easy, finding the deal is hard.

    2) No - you can buy lists of anything separately online from places like Realtytrac. The problem is, this same list is provided to thousands of other investors which are in a better financial position than you are. The best way to find a good deal is to find something off market that isn't on a list. Driving for dollars is time intensive, but is inexpensive and gives you access to properties that aren't on anyone's radar. Listsource can also provide specific lists which meet criteria you designate, but it isn't as inexpensive as driving for dollars.

    -Christopher

  • Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    And to build on Christopher's reply:

    1.  The way you find lenders is locally, not typically through online searches of National hard money lenders.  National guys have to rely on appraisals and other people's title companies, and must build in extra fees to compensate for their lack of knowledge of the local market. Attend REIAs and Real Estate meetups in your area and ask around.  You can find lenders local to you on directories such as the Bigger Pockets Hard Money lender directory, but be sure to ask around locally before you commit to them.  Real estate agents are not your best source of information, other real estate investors are.  

    It is important to find someone reputable.  The hard money business is full of slick operators, and many times you don't know about fees until you show up at the closing table. Or your actual terms for that matter.  Once you have established a relationship and history with a local lender, your terms can improve.  Go for reputation above price.  

    2.  Christopher is right, thousands of other investors are looking at those lists.  The skill of finding the deal is the holy grail of real estate investing.  You can learn or hire fixing it up, you can find money fairly easily, but finding the deal is the gold.  Study the forums on marketing, they will help you with marketing for deals.  

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Christopher, thank you much for your reply, this insight is extremely helpful. It's good to hear that lenders will be willing to evaluate a deal solely on the merits of its profitability. With your comments in mind, it is clear that my priority should be finding a solid deal and knowing that the money and buyers will follow (not without effort). Thank you!

    - Sam

    Originally posted by @Christopher Brainard:

    1) There are literally tens of thousands of lenders out there, all offering various terms and willing to do different deals. I highly doubt they have lenders who are willing to finance a high % of the ARV and don't care about your personal credit. That's just bad business. If you don't have good credit or a favorable personal income, you need to find a good deal. There are many hard money lenders which will evaluate the deal and the deal alone. There are also many investors that would be happy to partner with you and bring the cash, if there is sufficient profit to be made. Based on my experience, getting money is easy, finding the deal is hard.

    2) No - you can buy lists of anything separately online from places like Realtytrac. The problem is, this same list is provided to thousands of other investors which are in a better financial position than you are. The best way to find a good deal is to find something off market that isn't on a list. Driving for dollars is time intensive, but is inexpensive and gives you access to properties that aren't on anyone's radar. Listsource can also provide specific lists which meet criteria you designate, but it isn't as inexpensive as driving for dollars.

    -Christopher

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Ann, 

    Thank you for your incredible insight. Your tip on sticking to local lenders is a crucial one as I can only imagine that the fees paid to national lenders for their own risk management can add up very quickly. 

    I will be sure to look into the REIAs, as well as the meetups put on by folks in my area. It is easy for a beginner to jump at the first opportunities that come along so I will also bring a healthy skepticism to any deals I encounter and will lean on the knowledge of those in my area that have been there before.

    Thank you!

    - Sam

    Originally posted by @Ann Bellamy:

    And to build on Christopher's reply:

    1.  The way you find lenders is locally, not typically through online searches of National hard money lenders.  National guys have to rely on appraisals and other people's title companies, and must build in extra fees to compensate for their lack of knowledge of the local market. Attend REIAs and Real Estate meetups in your area and ask around.  You can find lenders local to you on directories such as the Bigger Pockets Hard Money lender directory, but be sure to ask around locally before you commit to them.  Real estate agents are not your best source of information, other real estate investors are.  

    It is important to find someone reputable.  The hard money business is full of slick operators, and many times you don't know about fees until you show up at the closing table. Or your actual terms for that matter.  Once you have established a relationship and history with a local lender, your terms can improve.  Go for reputation above price.  

    2.  Christopher is right, thousands of other investors are looking at those lists.  The skill of finding the deal is the holy grail of real estate investing.  You can learn or hire fixing it up, you can find money fairly easily, but finding the deal is the gold.  Study the forums on marketing, they will help you with marketing for deals.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Wareham, MA · Member since 2013 · 112 posts · 67 votes
    10y

    .

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Sam Hager  from my perspective .. .yes there are lenders that go on deal only.. but you will be hard pressed to find them.. and especially if you are just starting out.

    YOu would be so much better finding an equity partner to start with to build your experience up..

    A good place to kind of see how the market thinks of these deals in the form of risk is to simply pop on www.lendinghome.com and they have a matrix of what they charge based on experience level and equity.. now of course they won't I don't believe do any 100% LTV deals.. but they are pretty competitive for the experienced person.

    Many local HML once you have a few years of relationships may go 100% on something with significant equity.

    But what you will find at most paid training  be it the nationals or the more boutique trainers you will find on BP ( they are also paid if you want to higher them to train you) is that you will be looking for what's called gap funding which in essence is an equity partner.  I do a little of this here in PDX for my close knit guys.. so yes they are getting into deals with NO money out of pocket.. but they are giving me half the profit  :) and I watch em like a hawk.. so not really anything a bigger shop can do for you.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Sam Hager

    Speaking from someone who originally got sucked in via a "free" Fortune Builders event and had to get a refund, I will suggest that their list of "lenders" is precisely what Fortune Builders provides, which is really nothing more than a listing of Accredited Investors. As for the "curated" listing of REO's and foreclosures...speaking as someone who spent 20-years in large corporate banking...that list doesn't exist. They say it does, but it doesn't. They have the same information you can buy from a list source. Depending on your state, any list may be suspect. Fortune Builders as well as another software based service said they could get me a listing of pre-foreclosures in Texas. That's interesting, because Texas is a non-judicial foreclosure state. Nothing about foreclosure in Texas is actually public, until the auction notice is posted, and there's no requirement that it be posted far enough in advance to give you a serious opportunity to get anything done.

    REI is not a cookie cutter industry. You can't take a cookie cutter approach to it. It isn't McDonalds. There are activities within an REI business that you can take systems, which have been developed by others, and use them to systemize your business. But, your approach to REI, your market, your goals, etc. are just that...yours. You need to figure out what will work for you, within some more general guidelines of mistakes and successes already made and/or achieved by others.

    IMHO ;-)

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Christopher,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to post. I needed this balancing check on what I've heard thus far. Intuitively I believed that personal credit and finances do matter (how could they not after all?), and am glad that you gave it to me straight. I think I will begin spending my time and focus on figuring out how to source a hard to find deal - Good stuff!

    Much appreciated,

    Sam

    Originally posted by @Christopher Brainard:

    1) There are literally tens of thousands of lenders out there, all offering various terms and willing to do different deals. I highly doubt they have lenders who are willing to finance a high % of the ARV and don't care about your personal credit. That's just bad business. If you don't have good credit or a favorable personal income, you need to find a good deal. There are many hard money lenders which will evaluate the deal and the deal alone. There are also many investors that would be happy to partner with you and bring the cash, if there is sufficient profit to be made. Based on my experience, getting money is easy, finding the deal is hard.

    2) No - you can buy lists of anything separately online from places like Realtytrac. The problem is, this same list is provided to thousands of other investors which are in a better financial position than you are. The best way to find a good deal is to find something off market that isn't on a list. Driving for dollars is time intensive, but is inexpensive and gives you access to properties that aren't on anyone's radar. Listsource can also provide specific lists which meet criteria you designate, but it isn't as inexpensive as driving for dollars.

    -Christopher

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Hattie,

    I cannot say thank you enough for your honest opinion. This is exactly why I have written to the forum, to receive responses such as yours and from those who have also replied. 

    It's great to know that at least there is no secret key to listings and that I can be competitive if I put my nose and ear to the ground and do the work required to find unlisted properties. I like to hear that I have a fighting chance.

    I will certainly be keeping your advice in mind as I adopt pre-built systems to help increase efficiency with the knowledge that there is no secret sauce.

    Thank you for your effort and insight!

    All the best,

    Sam

    Originally posted by @Hattie Dizmond:

    @Sam Hager

    Speaking from someone who originally got sucked in via a "free" Fortune Builders event and had to get a refund, I will suggest that their list of "lenders" is precisely what Fortune Builders provides, which is really nothing more than a listing of Accredited Investors. As for the "curated" listing of REO's and foreclosures...speaking as someone who spent 20-years in large corporate banking...that list doesn't exist. They say it does, but it doesn't. They have the same information you can buy from a list source. Depending on your state, any list may be suspect. Fortune Builders as well as another software based service said they could get me a listing of pre-foreclosures in Texas. That's interesting, because Texas is a non-judicial foreclosure state. Nothing about foreclosure in Texas is actually public, until the auction notice is posted, and there's no requirement that it be posted far enough in advance to give you a serious opportunity to get anything done.

    REI is not a cookie cutter industry. You can't take a cookie cutter approach to it. It isn't McDonalds. There are activities within an REI business that you can take systems, which have been developed by others, and use them to systemize your business. But, your approach to REI, your market, your goals, etc. are just that...yours. You need to figure out what will work for you, within some more general guidelines of mistakes and successes already made and/or achieved by others.

    IMHO ;-)

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.