Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 41 posts · 65 votes
I know this one might get a bit controversial, but I think it's important to have this discussion. I started out investing a bit over a year ago and it was just recently I started experiencing some discrimination once I moved outside the city in Atlanta. It's something I've come to live with in the south in general but I'm really curious to see if anyone has experienced any discrimination when it comes to securing seed capital from lenders, if any of y'all have seen negotiations hurt just by racism or if it's more of a one-off occurrence. Ran an experiment having my wife do the negotiating (she's white) and I swear she's either either memorized the Art of the Deal or I'm being hurt by unconscious bias.
Derrick, I find I get what I focus on...if you think you're being treated differently, that's what you'll find. If you expect otherwise, that is also what you will get.
Let your confidence, and knowledge be what guides you. With that being said, racism or not, your wife is closing deals, then let her. Eventually you'll be in a position where you won't need a bank.
@Karen Margrave Sorry to hear about your husband passing... that can be tough. So you are a GC? Way to spin this into a gender discrimination issue by the way? What a spin :) may be you should consider working for ABC, Fox or the Times :)
@David Weintraub Hmm... I wasn't aware a history lesson was going to be necessary for this but apparently it is.
Not very long ago, you would be amazed just what was legal and normal conduct in society... just because the law says it is wrong on the books today and they took the signs down, doesn't mean the general spirit that inspired these totally ridiculous practices just died or disappeared. We aren't talking ancient practices either.
This is the South we are talking about... again this is just for educational purposes and not to incite a riot but what would possess a man and move him to even think like this?
Anyone ever travel Greyhound?
Public Laundry
I guess he wasn't qualified
And guess who's enforcing?
This was just not a HOA thing
and someone has the nerve to think this is just some sort of abstract idea or talk about UFO's
I believe it is a REAL issue. But I also know that I've felt I was being biased against when in fact I was not. It's often very very hard to know whether you are or not. Keeping pushing forward and you'll get where you want to go. Think of your goals and don't let people get you down...
Your comment is so ludicrous I can't even believe you wrote it with serious intent.
Simply, you're stating a person can't know if something is real unless they themselves had first hand experience. That being a witness to wouldn't suffice?
I had a roommate in college ask me if I had horns.
I had a man in Charleston, who is in fact in real estate, tell me just 2 weeks ago 'we try and get along with THE blacks....'
Don't be ignorant. I've stood on NYC streets and watched taxis not stop for black people but when I walked up they come to a screeching halt.
Think before you speak.
"But if you can't see the relative privilege you possess, especially in the south, then you may not understand what ignorance is"
1.You've never been to the south
2.you are not a black man
So no friend, it is you that needs to think before you speak. Don't speak from a person or groups perspective when you're not in their shoes. Don't stereotype an entire region of our ountry and the people within it when you haven't even been there. Talk about hypocritical! You want to sit here and crucify other people in the name of equality but in the same breath pass judgement onto others based on your stereotypical opinion of them. Is that how equality works?
I also don't give a damn about what you think you've seen on the streets of New York City,heard from a friend, or read in newspapers. Those experiences don't allow you to act like you've worn their shoes and can preach down to others. There's a difference between being sympathetic and empathetic dude.
Yup, it's real and you're not enlightening the world about anything. Discrimination has always been in our country and in every culture since the beginning of man. So why did you think nobody already knew this? Is it maybe because you are an elitist jerk?
Why are you discriminating against southerners? I bet you think us dumb, redneck, and racist southerners walk around with corn cob pipes and no shoes? Is there anything else you highly cultured northern genius' can educate us southerns on? I heard we were going to the moon, for real?
I've experienced discrimination first hand numerous times myself in addition to yours here by being associated with a man of different color. My closest friend growing up and college roommates was black, I've seen it all. When you're the one white man in a group of people a racist won't treat you any differently, ask me how I know that one. Where was my privilege then,huh?
Even though I've witnessed and even experienced discrimination many times through my life it doesn't validate me passing the same type of judgement to others. What you see in new york does not warrant you to make what is the VERY definition of an ignorant statement.
It's not about it being real, we all know that already guy. It's about people like you and the op screaming discrimination and privilege while in the same breath demonstrating the very same discrimination towards others and a privileged attitude with a hint of entitlement.
I have no desire to further engage in such a conversation so am leaving this topic, good luck to you all.
Can't believe this nonsense thread is still going.
We live in a society where it's in style to claim victim status and many groups even battle it out to see who is the bigger victim group. Its also a huge racket with lots of money to be made...... Unfortunately it doesn't transfer over to real estate investing where numbers are more important than skin color.
There's no "good" answer here, discrimination is real and it takes a 100 idiotic forms even in real estate. As @Deshawn Lewis puts it "life isn't fair" and, well, he's right:
I'm sure women could argue contractors don't respect them or try to gouge them.
Out-of-state investors get discriminated against by local realtors who don't call them back.
Realtors talk more to me than my wife when we both go to look at a property.
Young investors get discriminated against because people assume they don't have money.
I'd bet in certain cities someone with a Jewish surname would be discriminated against.
Realtors discriminate against people without proof-of-funds.
I'm sure I could think off 100 more examples if I thought about it...
Now morally you might find yourself with various degrees of "outrage" towards each of those scenarios. It's great to talk about on a forum but the reality is that forum posts and virtue-signaling on Twitter get you nowhere in the real world. Life isn't fair and in the real world you can't wait 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, etc. for society to change and life to become "less unfair".
If you want to want to go down the "check your privilege" road and attack the person instead of their suggestion then ramble on down the road of venting. There's nothing wrong with venting, people need an outlet, the issue is racism is real estate is real, but you should just say you want to vent. If you want to raise awareness from your anecdote, go for it.
However, I can't come crashing down on someone like @Tracy D. for saying that his wife might have a better talent for build rapport with lenders. If Derrick had conversations with 20 lenders trying to raise seed capital, I have my doubts that 20 out of 20 are rampant racists. Maybe they are, I don't know, ATL might be hell-on-earth, but it strikes me as unlikely. If Derrick is 0/20 and his wife is 4/5 in having successful lender conversations I'd lean towards thinking the factors in play involve more than race.
Would my opinion matter more to you if I were to show my skin color is a shade darker than white?
Racist much?
You can't fight perceived racism with more racism of your own. Seems like you have some inner demons of your own to face first. I wish you well on your journey good sir.
man continues thread he can't believe is still going. man doesn't believe racism is real in real estate but then makes assumption that man in real estate is racist.
Would my opinion matter more to you if I were to show my skin color is a shade darker than white?
Racist much?
You can't fight perceived racism with more racism of your own. Seems like you have some inner demons of your own to face first. I wish you well on your journey good sir.
He doesn't have the brain capacity to understand what you are saying. This and his level of immaturity is made clear in his posts. It's unfortunate that some people just want to push their agenda vs having a reasonable conversation with someone.
I wish the mods would shut this hread down. It provides no value to this forum.
@Karen Margrave Sorry to hear about your husband passing... that can be tough. So you are a GC? Way to spin this into a gender discrimination issue by the way? What a spin :) may be you should consider working for ABC, Fox or the Times :)
WOW, apparently I missed what I wrote that made you take that leap. Did I say anywhere that anyone ever discriminated against me? Have I had experiences where someone didn't want to work with a woman, definitely. I didn't call it discrimination but considered it personal preferences. He felt more comfortable dealing with my husband. Rather than taking offense, I ignored it and did what I needed to do in order to do the deal, which I still was a part of. I know there are people that will like me and some that won't. I expect to be held to the same standard as any other GC no matter their gender, race, sexual orientation, religion or the host of other things people use. The majority of the time when something happens, someone doesn't want to work with you, etc. it's based on the conditions of the deal and whether or not they think it's a good deal, or if it's in their wheelhouse, your experience, etc. Does racisim, sexism, etc happen? Of course it does. However; the fact someone is a certain race, gender, religion, etc. and someone doesn't do something with you, doesn't mean that is the basis for their not wanting to work with you. Sometimes, it is. The question still is, how are you going to react and deal with it? We are only in control of ourselves and whether or not we let others opinions influence our self worth is up to us. Also, we might need to reflect on how we handled things, presented the deal, what we could have done to make it a stronger deal, or shore up our experience in some way,, etc. Then, move on!
This article mentions OneUnited Bank and Citizen's Trust Bank, give them a try if you haven't already. Getting funding will always be a challenge. Best of luck to you.
@Karen Margrave Leap? These were your words from a previous post:
"...There are all types of biases out there. I am a female, general contractor, that builds spec new construction. Many times over the years when we were doing deals it was obvious that someone didn't want to deal with me because I was a woman....Yes, there are racists, sexists, and everything else in the world. You aren't going to change that..."
Urrr... sounds like some suggestion of having experienced gender based discrimination... if thats not what you meant, its good to know society finally cured the gender discrimination issue..
So maybe the race based issue can get fixed soon so buddy here can get some deals done if that was indeed what has been affecting him. But you seem to think that can never be changed.
@Account Closed once again, I don't think that's discrimination, I think people can have a preference with who they may feel more comfortable working with and there's nothing wrong with that. In the case of the poster, he is assuming it's because of his race, when it could be the deal wasn't strong enough, it wasn't the type of project they were lending on, they wanted more experience or different type of experience in a partner or a host of other things. It could be personalities, because like it or not, people like working with people they feel comfortable with. If as a woman every time something doesn't go how I would like I assume it's because it's my gender, I will never get anything accomplished. I've learned in this business when someone tells you, "you're crazy, you're never going to get that deal financed" you can quit, or as I did once say "you may not be the one to finance it, but I will get it financed" and I went on to do that. Now had I thought the lender didn't want to finance the deal because I am a woman I could have been too intimidated to approach another man for funding. But, I kept going until I found a lender to do the deal because it was a good project; and I didn't give a minutes thought to the motivation of the other lender. The point is, all of us have challenges in doing deals at times for a variety of different reasons. It's a tough business, but I'm sure you'll agree that this business isn't meant for those with thin skin, and we have to keep pushing on.
@Account Closed once again, I don't think that's discrimination, I think people can have a preference with who they may feel more comfortable working with and there's nothing wrong with that...
@Karen Margrave oh boy! Just when I thought we finally got this figured out... I really have to pull out the dictionary to define discrimination? What does this sound like?
"...the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex..."
This is okay for you Karen? So if say whites feel comfortable only working with whites, prefer only working with whites or only living around whites and engage in all sorts of discriminatory practices to achieve this preference or comfort as you mentioned, this is supposed to be okay from your point of view?
Your rationale then is if someone prefers not to work with blacks, you can unjustly deny the app. They try to move into a certain neighborhood, then don't let them, because you don't feel comfortable around them. Right?