Our first flip flopped. Now what?

Our first flip flopped. Now what?

Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Hello BP! I need some consolation, wisdom, and maybe pizza.

My dad just completed his first flip. After all was said and done, he lost over $3k. We're not white collar people, so $3k is a lot to us. I tried telling him that $3k is a small price for the education he received, but all he can see right now is how hard he worked to lose $3k. He's discouraged and upset, and I'm both sad and annoyed that he's not seeing any of the positives. 

He's made comments about what he'll do differently for "the next one," but as convinced as I am that REI is the future for both of us, I don't know that flipping is wise for him. He took a risk and can't seem to accept that loss is part of the risk. His capital is limited, and now its been reduced. I believe it's around $40-45k now. He's getting older (54), his job isn't viable in the long term (he hauls trailers and campers. It's unhealthy, not rewarding, unsteady, and the expenses make it barely profitable) he's trying to find some magic path to high reward, low risk.

Obviously, he made a lot of mistakes that he knows not to repeat. In addition, I'm now active on BP; I wasn't when he first started. But I won't know how to deal with him if he tries again and loses more. Maybe our market isn't right for flips. I don't know what we do from here other than spend some time on BP, learn about different ways to get into REI, and find out if there's a better one out there. I'd love for him to help me with my long term plan (become a full-time landlord through SFH, MFH, and vacation rentals primarily through buy and holds, using rental profits to save up for more downpayments on more houses, then bring him on as property manager).

Sorry if this is jumbled; I feel jumbled. I will say that the stress of having this off our shoulders and not have to hear him stressing out about it every single day is almost worth the $3k to me. 

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Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 48 votes
9y

The deal is not the problem. The problem is you are only running numbers for 1 exit strategy which is selling on MLS. As a rental, you could have $7K a year from the rents. With seller financing (10,10,10), you could have $6K per year from P&I. Land contract would net even more. You could sell the debt in 12 months for 85 cents on the dollar and get your capital out. Multiple exit options help turn coal into diamonds. No doubt your next deal will go smoother, but until you learn your options on the finance side of RE, your options are limited.

Yes, the $3k he lost was worth more than $10K in guru training.  He took action where others buy training and do nothing with it.  Tell your Dad to listen to Earl nightingale "the strangest secret" every day for one month.  Also read cash flow quadrant.  "Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal"

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  • Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Michael Plante I don't think a person should break even either, but that's not a bad result for a first-timer. I sure wish we were breaking even. Expecting to profit $30k is, in my non-expert opinion, unrealistic. It's like walking up to the plate and expecting to hit a home run when you've never held a bat before. If we made $30k off of one project, we'd be almost doubling our entire bank account. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. This isn't a wealthy area. The average home cost here is $50-60k. We'd be THRILLED making $5k off of a flip starting out.

    @Sam Shueh I need to learn more about REIT mutual funds.

  • Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Michael Noto That's the realization I've come to, and I'm trying figure out another direction to push him towards, but he's really set on this. 

    @John Colburn You just summed it up perfectly. Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. 

    @Luc Boiron I've already signed up for several REIA groups on meetup.com. I'm very eager to meet local investors that I can put him in contact with.

    @Gay Lloyd I would absolutely love to learn about your rehab schedule! I will be sending you a colleague request!

  • Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    what do you think a property like this would go for fixed up with nice looking horse fence and small red and white run in shelter?

    I don't know the area so don't know if this is a good deal or not 

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/43800-Bell-Rd-Lisbon-OH-44432/82319432_zpid

  • Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    We have an ICBM loaded ready from Asia aim. Whether it is a hydrogen or helium filled ballon coming this way many people think the great economy will go on forever. 

    Most of the flip money even in NYC or pricy Silicon Valley is already made. Those buying at the peak can count on low or negative margin return.  Location is the key and one needs to refrain from over doing the improvement.  Just spend as little and keep the price low.  I operate on $250 an hour basis.  If I have to get involved in a flip, supervision, permits, Home Depot I need to know if it is worth my time.  Rental is based on local cap rate. Over 5-10% can be found in some parts of US.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 463 posts · 220 votes
    9y

    @Nicole Heasley Beitenman- Sorry to hear about your dad's loss on this flip! I belong to the Mahoning Valley REIA and know some people in the area who are flipping in Struthers and some of the nicer areas around Youngstown. I'd be happy to share the contact info I have with you.

    One thing that one of the flippers in the group told me some time ago is that they have much more luck (higher price, more potential buyers) doing rent-to-own than selling outright. I know you said your dad needs his capital back as buffer for winter, but it's something to consider. He would get at least a small lump sum at the beginning (the down payment) as well as a monthly check. It might even sit better with him, since he is technically selling!

  • Rental Property Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 911 votes
    9y

    Nicole. 

    Analyze what you did wrong and keep moving forward. We all lose on deals, some of us lose on our first deal, some of us lost on our last deal. It is bound to happen. Learn from it and analyze the deal in the right way before you make the jump. 

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