Is it helpful to be handy?

Is it helpful to be handy?

Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes

Lately I have entertained the idea that being handy might not be the best quality of a investor.

Obviously this depends on your investing goals..

But➡️

Here is the question.. how can a “handy” or “gifted” builder grow without getting in his or her own way?

Building a portfolio of great investments without loosing the joy of working with your hands and being a part of the day to day.

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Investor · Clatskanie, OR · Member since 2014 · 212 posts · 233 votes
7y

Our first 10 properties my wife and I did ourselves. We at least doubled up on each one. I believe this was the biggest part of our growth.  here is a big hint. We now hire most of the work out. I fired 10 guys for every one I kept.  so far all of the investors that I know who hire contractors, give up huge chunks of profit and they are way behind us. I mean ALL of them!

Now with that being said, if you can somehow make profits while paying contractor prices then go for it because anything is better than a W-2 job right?

But, if you are looking to  come up FAST, you better learn fast on how to remodel homes. This also eliminates a lot of risk by increasing your margin (ie Cash flow).

Also, I can spot a scam in less than a minute in most cases, just by what they say. You just know. I can't even explain it. 

Have you been quoted 10K for a new roof. Same roof cost me less than 3K and I hire it out. Learn how to do the work and you will learn how to hire workers and what to look for later on in the game. 

I have heard many say your time can be spent more wisely. I say, buy some knee pads and get them dirty. 

Your best education is not buying a pack of CD's from some famous person that sounds cool, it is buying a trashed house and making it look great. You will learn everything you need to know from doing that. All the numbers will become crystal clear. 

It's a HUGE DEAL.

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  • Developer · Point Pleasant Beach, NJ · Member since 2015 · 303 posts · 216 votes
    7y

    If you enjoy being handy, then you'll enjoy working on your own properties.  It can't be a bad thing.  Just be willing to give up some control as you grow.

  • Investor · Clatskanie, OR · Member since 2014 · 212 posts · 233 votes
    7y

    Yes it has Steve. I personally only use a contractor for Gutters because you have to have a gutter machine to make them seamless. There is nothing you cannot hire out yourself. Even electrical. Just post on Facebook, craigslist or where ever you prefer and start trying people out. Just be prepared to let most of them go once you find out they lied about there skills just to get a days pay so they can  run straight to there dealer to fill there meth pipes. 

    If you take the time to sort through them you will find a few good men. Guess what you just became, your a contractor now. Can even go get a license if you want to look cool. Maybe pass out some shiny cards. But better yet, you save 10's of thousands of dollars that would have went to contractors to do the same thing for you. 

    I'm not saying this is easy, but it is necessary to keep from bleeding out. 

    I think a lot of guys think they will just buy a messed up house and call 3 companies, hire one and there off and running. They night be getting that from TV or something, I am not sure but Make sure you have a lot of money and several check books before you try that. Contractors don't like credit cards. 

    Shawn Coverdell

    Homes in the Hood

  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I'm a very handy person. My wife and I do everything on our rehabs. By everything, I mean we don't hire anyone for anything. We have the tools, equipment and know how to do anything from the foundation to the roof. (which reminds me that a voicemail today informed me my roofing metal is ready to pick up)

    So yes, we're guilty of working "in" the business instead of "on" the business but we do all that too as we self manage, do our own taxes and whatnot. Our house rentals are our full time job and we work on some aspect of it every day except Sunday. (and then I'm on Bigger Pockets)

    I like doing what we do, being our own boss and preparing for the future. Could I do other activities and make more money? Yup. I could fly airplanes but I don't ever in my life want to wear another necktie. (and I like sleeping at home)

    I could work as an airplane or auto mechanic which would keep me home but I just don't want to. So we fix up houses. I like doing it and it buys our groceries so we'll just keep slogging along buying a house a year or so. We're slow on rehabs but we're also risk averse so moving forward slowly allows the use of no or little leverage.

    I have no desire to own 100 doors so "scaling" isn't my primary concern. Real estate investing is so diverse that everyone can choose their own style. Ours is most definitely DIY.

  • Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    7y

    I'm an investor and a General Contractor and I have found being handy is most useful in both knowing how to do something the right way or, in a pinch, being able to jump in and do it yourself.  If you know how to do something the right way then it will help save you from someone you hire doing it wrong because you'll spot it right away, or you can direct them to do things a certain way that will save time.  If you're in a jam and the individual you've hired for work can't make it, then you can step in yourself and do what needs to be done.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Shawn Coverdell:

    Yes it has Steve. I personally only use a contractor for Gutters because you have to have a gutter machine to make them seamless. There is nothing you cannot hire out yourself. Even electrical. Just post on Facebook, craigslist or where ever you prefer and start trying people out. Just be prepared to let most of them go once you find out they lied about there skills just to get a days pay so they can  run straight to there dealer to fill there meth pipes. 

    If you take the time to sort through them you will find a few good men. Guess what you just became, your a contractor now. Can even go get a license if you want to look cool. Maybe pass out some shiny cards. But better yet, you save 10's of thousands of dollars that would have went to contractors to do the same thing for you. 

    I'm not saying this is easy, but it is necessary to keep from bleeding out. 

    I think a lot of guys think they will just buy a messed up house and call 3 companies, hire one and there off and running. They night be getting that from TV or something, I am not sure but Make sure you have a lot of money and several check books before you try that. Contractors don't like credit cards. 

    Shawn Coverdell

    Homes in the Hood

    =================================================

    Absolutely, for some people this approach works just fine.  It really depends on the scope of work.  Where it can go off the rails is when you encounter advanced problems you have little experience with such as structural or foundation issues.  Or if you know a lot less than the person you've hired to do some work for you, how do you know you're not getting ripped off?  

    Here's an example...years ago I got a call from someone who had bought a 3 flat in Logan Square (a hot area in Chicago) and he was trying to be his own GC.  He hired an electrician from Craig's List to rewire the entire building.  The person he hired lied about being licensed, had no insurance and did not bother to pull a permit.  They did shoddy work, ran bare wires behind the walls and plastered over them so nobody would see, and ended up skipping out on the owner with $5,000 of his money.  I went in and fixed everything--my electrician is licensed and insured, as am I--but it cost the owner about $10,000 to do the repairs.  The issue was the owner did not know enough about doing electrical work to see the red flags the person he hired was putting up and by the time he figured it out it was too late.   

    The cool thing about construction is there's always something to learn.  Unfortunately learning can be a costly and frustrating process if you're trying to do it all yourself.  If you find a good GC to help manage your projects it can save you a lot of headache and time.  For smaller projects, one off things here and there, a good tradesperson is sufficient.  But for a $200,000+ gut rehab, or a ground up development, you're going to have to go with a GC and an architect.  Don't chance it.  

  • Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 663 posts · 512 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris

    The interesting part is that tenants appreciate the hard work I put towards my rental. They feel as though I care and take care and if my properties. I personally feel that the tenants love someone who takes care of the properties not somebody who’s passive aggressive.

  • Real Estate Agent · Central Florida · Member since 2013 · 118 posts · 102 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris I think it’s great to have these skills. YouTube was my go-to for my first deal. It was small enough that I was able to do a lot myself. My next deal was a duplex, and because of the work I did on my first deal I knew I was in over my head so I found my contractor. I also just wanted to save more time to spend with family. But it was a great learning experience. I now know what I’m good/fast at and I still find things to do on each deal that aren’t too involved. I also have a better idea of timelines and costs! Great topic thanks for posting it.

  • Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I do most of the rehab work myself on my properties. I sub contract out things such as electrical and roofing. I will be subbing out drywall work moving forward. I can do it, just think it takes to much of my time and I know there's people who can do it better than me. 

    I have been doing everything myself and have enjoyed it for almost 3 years. It's been great as I have grown with little to no leverage and I have learned a lot. I am now established enough to start scaling it up a bit so I will start to sub contract out more of the work. 

    Finishing up a 4BR/2BA right now. Was a 3BR that we converted. Almost 1,500 square feet. Took it down to the studs, new wiring, new plumbing, new roof, etc etc. Appraiser is coming tomorrow so the last week has been CRAZY for me. I spread 10 ton of gravel by hand, by myself in two days time. 7 tons the first day and 3 tons the next day. The driveway has concrete walls on each side which prevent the gravel trucks from delivering and spreading it for me, trust me, I didn't want to do this lol.

    Today was landscaping and some little things such as trim work and some work on natural gas pipes (putting on shut off valves, connecting the cook stove, etc.) Tomorrow is the big day though and I can not wait to find out how much sweat equity my wife and I have made on this project.

    We already have the place rented with our new tenants moving in this weekend. I'm excited to watch some college football, relax, enjoy the family, and of course sit down and see what things I need to sub contract out in the future, to make sure we can grow faster. At the same time, I'm a tight wad and want to make sure we are not wasting money on things we can do pretty easy/quick. I'm excited about the future. 

  • Halifax NS · Member since 2019 · 48 posts · 24 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris I think it is absolutely helpful. Especially when you just start out. You can do so much on your own and can get deals that you normally couldn't because you're not paying someone to do the work. Once you start scaling and getting a crew together or just hiring a contractor, you know if he is cutting corners or doing just a cr@p job or not. Don't think of your strengths as weakness. Just remember what your important role is for at the point where you are at.

    Maybe you might want to do a small flip for fun if you feel like swinging a hammer or something.

  • Rental Property Investor · Seal Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 115 posts · 85 votes
    7y
    You are building a business... are you trying to tell me that a ceo of a company wouldn’t have some sort of understanding of each Position? Try to do a remodel with 0 knowledge of how things need to be done. You won’t know if work is done correctly, if the quality of work is done well, if you are over paying and the list goes on. You have do do everything once, so you know how it is supposed to be done. You don’t have to be an expert.
  • Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Jim K.

    Lol yes there are many stinkier things than having the knowledge of how everything works.

    It can only get in your way if you let it. :D

  • Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Bjorn Ahlblad

    Ha ha, it sounds like you have a great thing going with your handy women. Lol

    Starting with less handy man knowledge isn’t always bad.

    In many ways it seems to help people scale faster. Not that being handy is bad but starting out “not handy” helps the process of hiring these jobs early on in the investing career.

  • Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Marquis L. Robbins

    I’m sure after a few deals the fun wears off 😜. But until it does enjoy it. Lol

  • Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Dustin P.

    This is perhaps the best part of “knowing your stuff!” You save all kinds of waist searching and save so much money when getting quotes done by builders!

    Thanks for your thoughts.

  • CA · Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 44 votes
    7y

    Being handy is super handy. Lots of great investors I know of have backgrounds in construction.

    The key for someone in your position -- to stay out of your own way as you put it -- is to learn how to delegate. You can't do this all on your own after all. :)

  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 325 posts · 253 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris I am handy and can do much of the work myself. It helped out tremendously when I was starting off. My first may be five but and hold, I did all myself but then I started hiring help and focused more on acquisition. Now, I work on properties myself when it’s need to be done now and handyman is hours or days away. Also after certain time you just have to factor in cost vs. opportunity but for any beginner, being handy is a blessing that helps you scale faster and cut your cost.

  • Realtor · Concord, NH · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 30 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris  Being handy is an asset to have in your tool belt. In the beginning of your investment career expect to be as handy as possible. Later on, as you have acquired more, I would lean back a bit and enjoy the fruits of your labor. You don't want to be doing everything forever.... Unless you do, then that's great too!

  • Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris this is a very helpful discussion! Thank you to everyone showing the insides of the business. I’m handy, and I kick myself every time I waist time on hiring someone to do work. Contractors are spoiled right now, and every time I’ve tried in TN where I’m flipping it’s been a HUGE waist of hope and time. Hoping someone will save you from doing the work takes you away from getting in the flow of how to schedule your time to do it yourself. When I plan for someone else to do something important on my flip it messed my flow up horribly when they don’t show, or fail to perform hardly anything. Big contractors are too far out on schedule to even consider.

  • Jared DeckerPro Member
    Property Manager · Tampa Bay, FL · Member since 2017 · 46 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    Extra knowledge and skills are never a bad thing. Can save you money on rehab/labor costs during a rehab or managing rentals.

    Of course, you want to be sure the work is quality work! But, just like everything else in life -- you aren't good at something until you do it!

    Good luck!

  • Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    Does anyone have any tips for learning how to be handy? I come from a farm background, so I am pretty good with my hands, and have done my fair share on construction work. However, knowledge of how to do stuff from start to finish is still limited. I just finished putting in windows in my house that I am am house hacking, and was able to help and watch the guy put the windows in, as he was a friend of my father. But I would like to expand my experience to many things such as plumbing, electrical, flooring, etc. 

    I enjoy working with my hands, and have no problem doing some work on my house. But if I hire someone to do some work, I feel they will just annoyed if I ask to help and watch them work. Any tips on how to approach a contractor, or another way that I can learn would be appreciated.

  • Investor · Searcy, AR · Member since 2018 · 52 posts · 39 votes
    7y

    Ezra, I am not a gifted handyman and I have a full time job. I have learned a lot from different sources. I have also learned through doing the repairs that sometimes it is good to do your own stuff and sometimes it is not. Time is money! What was taking me months to do was taking another guy a week. Yes it cost me money but it also got the property rented in a few weeks instead of months. I would say you have to look at the situation from both sides and see which way benefits you more. I learned my lesson on how I think it should be done by doing it myself and making mistakes. Mistakes are the greatest teaching tool ever. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2015 · 490 posts · 301 votes
    7y

    I recently estimated that i save at least $2,500 a year being handy between small repairs to my property and to my own home and it cost me nothing to learn those skills. So yeah its useful as long as you dont overestimate your talents and screw things up more before you have to call a professional. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Michael Haas

    Ha ha the w2 spouse is the best 😂.

    You get to live a more normal “loan” life because of them and you can still work for yourself.

    Thank you to all those w2 spouses out there!

  • Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Joe Splitrock

    Time is so valuable! Trading time at the beginning is the only option sometimes but once you get a few cash flowing properties under your belt you can start finding that “better” use of your time.

    I see it as reaching a new level in a game.

    Once you reach that level you have this new power to hire it out or do it yourself. 😃

  • Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Matthew Paul

    That’s the way to go!

    Having a list of qualified help, handle the things even when you are around is a smart idea.

    That way when you are gone you know your properties are in good hands.

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