Is it helpful to be handy?

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Is it helpful to be handy?

Ezra Harris
Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes

Lately I have entertained the idea that being handy might not be the best quality of a investor.

Obviously this depends on your investing goals..

But➡️

Here is the question.. how can a “handy” or “gifted” builder grow without getting in his or her own way?

Building a portfolio of great investments without loosing the joy of working with your hands and being a part of the day to day.

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Shawn Coverdell
Investor · Clatskanie, OR · Member since 2014 · 212 posts · 233 votes
7y

Our first 10 properties my wife and I did ourselves. We at least doubled up on each one. I believe this was the biggest part of our growth.  here is a big hint. We now hire most of the work out. I fired 10 guys for every one I kept.  so far all of the investors that I know who hire contractors, give up huge chunks of profit and they are way behind us. I mean ALL of them!

Now with that being said, if you can somehow make profits while paying contractor prices then go for it because anything is better than a W-2 job right?

But, if you are looking to  come up FAST, you better learn fast on how to remodel homes. This also eliminates a lot of risk by increasing your margin (ie Cash flow).

Also, I can spot a scam in less than a minute in most cases, just by what they say. You just know. I can't even explain it. 

Have you been quoted 10K for a new roof. Same roof cost me less than 3K and I hire it out. Learn how to do the work and you will learn how to hire workers and what to look for later on in the game. 

I have heard many say your time can be spent more wisely. I say, buy some knee pads and get them dirty. 

Your best education is not buying a pack of CD's from some famous person that sounds cool, it is buying a trashed house and making it look great. You will learn everything you need to know from doing that. All the numbers will become crystal clear. 

It's a HUGE DEAL.

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  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Matt M.

    You are so right!

    It is a time consuming job.

    Anyone can do it with allot of patience and coats of mud/ allot of sanding.. or you can hire a crew and move on. :)

    1Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Steve B.

    It can always be worth more.. right!? 😁

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Mindy Jensen

    Hey Mindy!

    Thanks for your thoughts!

    You made me laugh a few times while readying your reply. 😂

    It’s so true dry wall, roofing and gutters stink!!!

    Lol well I do them still but I agree!

    10x is definitely something you cant do to easily as a handy man/ handy women such as yourself but if the handy person is happy with the pace and the out come. There isn’t any reason he/she should do what they love.

    1Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Lee Bell

    Ha ha yes!!

    Your right it’s all about scaling and what your goals are. If you want a easy life with no debt then buy a few nicely cash flowing deals but if a jets on your bucket list.. hire it out till it hurts 😂.

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Christopher Lombardi

    In your opinion, how many units can a handy landlord reasonably handle by himself?

    0Reply
  • Luke Saglimbeni
    Rental Property Investor · East Longmeadow, MA · Member since 2019 · 154 posts · 64 votes
    7y

    Handy is my weakness and downfall, hiring this out can be a pain and eat into your profits.  Relying on other people is tough too, as I have trouble trusting others.  But once you are more established as others have said, putting your time in finding and creating deals will bring in more equity so to speak per rich dad poor dad.  

    1Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Shawn Coverdell

    Yes contractors can be your best friend or worst night mare. 😜

    Although the modern day contractor can easily take credit if they set themselves up right; I agree with the fact you should have as much money and as many checks as you can get.

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @John Teachout

    The way you go about your investing is one of the great options investors have!

    You listed a plethora of reasons why anyone would do what you and your wife do.

    Here’s my question for you..

    Even though you are happy now with how you run your business, if you could hire one thing out what would it be and could you make your life easier with just hiring out one thing?

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Steven Lowe

    Agreed! It’s basically a super power. 😜

    0Reply
  • Randall Weatherall
    Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 261 posts · 253 votes
    7y

    I would just ask 'is it more helpful not to be?' and realize that more knowledge in a closely-related field just can't hinder in any way.  If it is, then we're missing a piece of the puzzle, but the money you save by not dealing with bad workers is usually even worth learning to be handy to begin with!

    0Reply
  • Brian Ellis
    Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    For me, there is a sense of accomplishment when doing most of my own work, it keeps me going. If it were my day job prior to investing in real estate? I may have never had the motivation to begin with.

    Also, as a W2er, It is important for me to be handy. I don't have 50 hours a week to work on my houses, I have very little time to dedicate to it. So the time I do dedicate, is valuable. If I were hiring out work I wouldn't be able to 1. afford it & 2. get the jobs done in a timely manner. 

    Here is a hardwood floor I just finished up, probably saving me 10k in labor and materials (after preparing the floors, sanding and finishing them). Keep in mind the amount of equity that comes along with it:

    2Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Marcus Johnson

    Yes! Even though it’s your rental the tenants appreciate the work to maintain “their” property. :)

    Looking at it from a tenants view, they are spending allot of money each month. Hard earned money to live in a nice place. It’s our responsibility as a landlord to keep it up nice.

    I agree completely with tenants appreciate the work done on their home. :)

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Matt Pastier

    Thank you for your input!

    You tube is perhaps the best tool a investor can have in his tool belt lol.

    0Reply
  • Sherwin Gonzales
    Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 236 posts · 156 votes
    7y
    I think you can be has handy as you want to be. That's the beauty of real estate investing in that you have control of your own time. You can choose when you want to work, where you want to work, and whom you want to work with.

    I, personally, am not a very handy person and am best suited using my architectural background to manage contractors, specify finishes, design, etc. I do from time to time go to home depot to lug materials to my properties or do some manual landscaping here and there to put in my "sweat equity." Sure I can hire someone to do all those things since my time is valuable, but I choose to do that.

    As you mentioned, it depends on your investing goals. But if one day you're tired of looking at spreadsheets and analyzing deals, then go out into the field and swing a hammer! Real estate investing allows you to be the architect of your life!

    Good luck to you and I hope this helps!


    Originally posted by @Ezra Harris:

    Lately I have entertained the idea that being handy might not be the best quality of a investor.

    Obviously this depends on your investing goals..

    But➡️

    Here is the question.. how can a “handy” or “gifted” builder grow without getting in his or her own way?

    Building a portfolio of great investments without loosing the joy of working with your hands and being a part of the day to day.

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Derrick E.

    Wow congrats!!! That’s awesome!!!

    Sweat equity is the best!

    You are literally building your future.

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Brandon Ramsay

    Very true.

    Being handy is definitely not a weakness.

    Agreed, even if you are a Grant Cardone you can still flip a house if you wanted. He never would want to but you get the point 😂.

    1Reply
  • Axel Ragnarsson
    Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 436 votes
    7y

    I’m a huge proponent of outsourcing everything in a real estate business (management, rehabs, agent activities) and I still so badly wish I was more handy. Numerous people have said it but when you have work that continues to be delayed, you might actually save money doing it yourself (holding costs in real estate are so overlooked). I would have done this on so many projects if I knew how.

    3Reply
  • Rob B.
    Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 546 posts · 227 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Brian Ellis:

    For me, there is a sense of accomplishment when doing most of my own work, it keeps me going. If it were my day job prior to investing in real estate? I may have never had the motivation to begin with.

    Also, as a W2er, It is important for me to be handy. I don't have 50 hours a week to work on my houses, I have very little time to dedicate to it. So the time I do dedicate, is valuable. If I were hiring out work I wouldn't be able to 1. afford it & 2. get the jobs done in a timely manner. 

    Here is a hardwood floor I just finished up, probably saving me 10k in labor and materials (after preparing the floors, sanding and finishing them). Keep in mind the amount of equity that comes along with it:

    This is absolutely what I love most about DIY (that sense of personal fulfillment/accomplishment). I just helped with the rehab process for my family's long-term home and new floors was one of the things we had to tackle upstair (the downstairs wood flooring was done within the last 4 years and still in great condition). As my folks get ready to downsize to a smaller home, we had to think through the different projects we wanted to take on versus the ones that were simply too big. 

    When it comes down to it, only take on those things you feel comfortable with approaching; yes, push your skills, but not at the detriment of losing any type of equity/value in your home upon rehab completion. But again, I'm very pro DIY so maybe a bit of bias there lol most would say just leave it to the professionals. But nothing wrong with further developing a super helpful skillset for what your primary work in REI deals with.

    2Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Michael Kay

    Agreed there is aways time to work with your hands 😃.

    1Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Al Pat

    What would you hire out first if you could pick one thing that would save you the most time?

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Matthew Couto

    Being handy is definitely a great ability. Learning when and we’re to step back is a new challenge.

    But will help the scaling. :)

    0Reply
  • Ezra Harris
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Goshen, OH · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    @Jonathan Greer

    It sure is frustrating waiting on contractors and scheduling with any help that doesn’t keep you posted of the job or time frame.

    But the benefits of a good contractor / help can really speed things up. :)

    Where have you found your builders so far?

    0Reply
  • Michael Masterson
    Rental Property Investor · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2016 · 69 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris I think it helps out tremendously starting off. I spent about 5 years working with a local flipper on the side before I was able to pull the trigger on my first house hack, and it really came in handy (for lack of a better term) when doing things for cheap. Alternatively I knew all my strengths, and definitely my weaknesses. A lot of the work I sub out now, but if I'm tight on budget I know I can save big $$$ by knocking out a tile or flooring job on my own. Also I've found it really kicks your contractor in gear when they walk in the next morning and see you did a big project. 

    I've just made it a point to clear it with them a few days in advance so they haven't ordered materials. Nobody likes the unloading materials, especially twice. 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
    7y

    @Ezra Harris well you’re right that finding a good contractor can be very helpful, and let’s just say, the ideal would be that we could all find good deals and hire a sweet contractor to take care of all the work for a reasonable price. Regarding where I find good contractors, the only good ones I’ve found are the ones I’ve worked around on other’s jobs, rather than on my own. I’m out of state right now for a flip in eastern TN and here there’s a huge problem with contractors not showing up! Now there are no doubt some good ones here, but as sweet as the market is for them right now, I’d bust my budget to use them. I think you’re on to something, that being handy can get in the way of setting up teams. From my experience working for some very successful home flippers in San Diego, the good ones have their contractors they keep busy, and a contractor I worked for in the past never swung a hammer, but was good at driving his employees and subs. Of course he did a little time in the trades early on, but ultimately he stayed at it and built his teams over 10yrs.

    0Reply
  • Isaac S.
    Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    7y

    One more vote for being handy!!!

    My most recent example, is replacing a "fire rated" door to the roof of a five story apartment building. Got two quotes for $3800 and $4500. I bought a door with twice the rating and the jamb for under $500 and total supplies for about $600. Paid a carpenter $600 and was his helper for the day for the rough install and then had my regular painter/helper helped me do the stucco patch and he painted it. Total cost of parts and labor, not including my time, was about $1600... it was  3 days of my time, so, I paid myself about $700 per day to match the lower bid.

    BUT, I only own one building with 37 units, that I am 2 min away from. If i owned 370 units, or had the 37 SFR spread out over an entire MSA, it would very quickly be a non-productive return(or just impossible to do), after accounting for my travel time and/or lost rental time, all because I was being penny wise and dollar foolish.

    IMHO, the question could be rephrased: How does a handy person make the transition from a hands on investor to  mainly executive investor? What level of scale will you need to be able to transition away from hands-on? What techniques will you use or develop to find good trades people to replace you?

    I have a tenant that is an asset manager for a multi billion dollar REIT, and she said that in her experience there were two types of asset managers: one was like her, great accounting/finance/management skills and the second type, like me, great hands-on/trade skills. The REIT she works for obviously values both types, and hires and teams them up accordingly.

    You will need both types of skills! Will you be able to do both jobs when you are at your end goal portfolio size? How do you best add value to your business model? What do you enjoy doing most? How much time do you want to(or can) spend working on what part of your business? etc,etc,etc...

    Gotta run, but great thread and thanks to all that contributed to it!!!!

    1Reply
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