To spend $3,600 dollars on coaching?
Developer · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 80 posts · 53 votes
To spend $3,600 dollars on coaching?
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
7yWhat are you getting for the money? I suspect you can learn everything they offer by reading BP and some good books.
116 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Gulf Breeze, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 733 votes7y
@Shane Elias-Calles - what did you decide?
- Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes7y
Use the 3600 dollars to put a down payment on a 100k duplex using an FHA loan. Live in one side and house hack. You'll learn a ton about rental property and being a landlord while you live for free and build equity.
- Realtor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2017 · 541 posts · 442 votes7y
I would rather spend that money on lead generation and start reading and learning all the information out there for free. Network with other investors, agents, contractors, and search for your first deal
Do a flip after you find a deal that meets your criteria. IMO you will learn a lot more from taking a property full circle than you will from a coach/mentor/guru. If you break even, it's a free education. If you make money, icing on the cake!
Even if you lose money you'll learn more than if you were to spend the $3600 anyway
Remember - Everyone always has something to sell
- Detroit, MI · Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 7 votes7y
@Chris Mason
The only ones that need coaches aren't self starters and need someone to kick them in the behind to get started? Or it could possibly be because they don't have a huge amount of money and fear making detrimental mistakes. Maybe those people know what it's like to be piss poor and would rather have mentor to mitigate the risks. Just a thought.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes7y
You have to LOVE coaching to do it for 3,600 a person. The time and hours spent with someone ground up from scratch is A LOT. 100 hours at 3,600 is a whopping 36 bucks an hour! That's nothing.
As an example I have high net worth to ultra high net worth clients that are buyers that do not know the retail space but want to buy shopping centers or freestanding single tenant properties. I spend lots of time with them as a client but the commission is usually 6 figures per deal for my time.
I can't imagine having 100 students to mentor at 3,600 a pop with 10,000 hours of instruction for 360,000 income. I know some trainers will say with systems they do not spend that amount of time with a student blah,blah,blah. Are we in the real estate investing business or the coaching business? When deals flow dries up a lot of so called mentors move to teach for income and push deals of the past as easy replicatable today.
What's great about bigger pockets is someone can post knowledge and it tends to be available to read by thousands or more people at their leisure.
You can already see by a lot of the posts the starter investors think 3,600 is a ton of money and the mentor Is being overpaid etc.
Folks there is likely some GOLD in these forums if the potential investor takes the time to read. Also look at books and podcasts to learn. Be a constant learner searching for hopefully the right and accurate information . It is unrealistic to think someone who Is a multi-millionaire will put all this free time into a person who wants to learn real estate. I have seen it before but it is extremely rare and usually someone local that is retired and they see in someone a huge desire and no excuse attitude to win which is like maybe 3% of the population. Others typically want fast and easy with little to no drive to succeed. In their mind they have good drive and work ethic but when it is measured against what is actually needed it falls way short in reality.
In the beginning people tend to have no money but a lot of time. Then as people become more knowledgable and hopefully successful they tend to have more money and less time. The time becomes more TREASURED and how it is spent and what is the return for the effort given.
- Professional · Parsippany, NJ · Member since 2013 · 384 posts · 262 votes7y
Sorry but I am NOT a fan of "mentors" like this. I believe anybody thats making real cash FROM rental income should not need to shake DOWN new rookie investors for money. I make A few dollars a month off of my rental income and just started mentoring someone for no cost. He buys me lunch here and there and I teach him the ropes. I would not normally not mentor in general but he has been an agent for a few years and has his mind and money in place. Being that he is serious I felt it was my duty to help him like my mentor helped me. My mentor has over 2,000 Units and never asked me for a dollar. First ask yourself if you are dead serious about this and that it won't be a hobby. Purchase books from Bigger Pockets and start reading. Next study the hell out of the market you want to invest in, yes literally study the real estate market like the back of your hand. Go to local classes and seminars which should not cost much. I know they just had a class near me for $15. You will have to spend some money but to hand someone 3600 is ridiculous. I mean someday I would like to teach seminars for a small fee just to make a little something for the day, but to ask someone for that amount is just crazy
- Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Thomas J Allen:
@Chris Mason
The only ones that need coaches aren't self starters and need someone to kick them in the behind to get started? Or it could possibly be because they don't have a huge amount of money and fear making detrimental mistakes. Maybe those people know what it's like to be piss poor and would rather have mentor to mitigate the risks. Just a thought.
I think you drastically mistook my meaning. I was living in the trailer park when I shipped off to Marine Corps boot camp at the age of 17 right before 9/11. First college grad in the family, all that sort of jazz.
- 7yLuke CarlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
@Shane Elias-Calles First thing that comes to my mind is he’s not retired. When I get to the point where I’m done I won’t be looking for people to hire me as a guru. I’ll be on the beach. I could be now but I’m only 39 so I’m planning for a better beach.
- Princeton, NJ · Member since 2019 · 45 posts · 114 votes7y
@Shane Elias-Calles
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a mentor in the field. You will get to learn first hand on things you may not even know exists out there.
I agree, BP and other forums, or even YouTube has an entire library of curriculum that you can learn for free, but what he can offer are things or ways you wouldn’t even have imagined. You can take parts of his ways and mix them with yours...don’t lose yourself in this, for sure.
Just mix it up and take yourself to the next step.
Why do you think NBA players still have coaches? Because they still need guidance in some ways. So, I don’t think anyone should turn down advice (even paid ones).
- Flipper/Rehabber · St. Louis · Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote7y
I am a proponent of proper education as well as having someone who can keep you accountable. Your first mistake can cost more than $2,000, $3,600, $8,000, $20,000, if a proper education can help you save that it is well worth it!
- Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, NC · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 21 votes7y
Hello Shane,
Brother, we don't know exactly what this guy is offering with his coaching course. I know you said he retire in 10 years with rentals, to be honest, that's not really impressive not to talk down his success but in reality, we don't know what amount of passive income he is generating.
if you have $3600 to do that, then I suggest that you upgrade to Pro for $320.... from there you will have access to more content Biggerpocket has video webinars, etc.
- Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes7y
The question I always ask is this? How do they help you with the funding? Do they finance you? Do they connect you with their lenders or investors? Most don't. They leave you to the wolves. They can teach you how to find properties and get them under contract? Can they help you fund those deals?
I only know of a few mentors/ coaching programs that are run by lenders who can fund your deals as well.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Nate Marshall:
The question I always ask is this? How do they help you with the funding? Do they finance you? Do they connect you with their lenders or investors? Most don't. They leave you to the wolves. They can teach you how to find properties and get them under contract? Can they help you fund those deals?
I only know of a few mentors/ coaching programs that are run by lenders who can fund your deals as well.
have to be careful with those that promise funding.. many times the newbie can never get the deal good enough to get the funding. and its still takes MONEY to get a HML.. they don't come with nothing out of pocket..
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:
@Shane Elias-Calles I am going to pick apart @Alexander Felice’s comment because I think it is a very common belief that I see over and over again here on BiggerPockets. His words are in italics. My words are bolded.
How much are you networking locally? How much time have you spent learning yet.
I am in agreement with these questions. There are a lot of things that you can do to start learning and networking so that the time you spend with a mentor or coach can be the most effective and efficient as possible. If you have the greatest mentor and coach at baseball in the world but you don't know anything about the sport then you will be taking that mentor/coaches time to first teach you the basics that you could have easily learned on your own or by watching some baseball games or joining a local league; and that is probably not the the best use of the mentor/coach's time.
Networking is also invaluable. getting to know other people who are doing what you want to do is, in my opinion, one of the greatest ways to become more familiar with it and learn the language of the trade.
There is a big ramp up in education before you feel comfortable with real estate, but it's NOT complicated.
Just like in most any profession, there is a lot to learn in real estate before you get comfortable with it and at the basic levels it is not complicated. But just like college courses in math, the upper levels become much more complicated. If you want to buy a rental off the MLS at market value and put 25% down (because it is an investment property) and hope that you screen the tenant well enough to get a good one who will not trash your investment, and hope that you have done the numbers well enough to get at least an 8-12% return that won't be eaten up by every turn over or by capital expenses over time, and you want to take a few years of trying to figure all of that out, then yes, it is not that complicated.
However, if you want to use more advanced strategies that require much less of your own money but have much greater returns such as 1) subject to, 2) lease options, 3) trading properties, or 4) buying a 3-acre property where there is a manufactured home on it where the seller does not have a title to it so you are getting it for 40% of the value and then getting a bonded title and putting 15k in to fixing it up and creating 120k value within a short period of time, then yes you will need education (preferably someone to walk you through the process) to be successful at these types of strategies.
There is no secret to real estate, there is very little a coach can teach you that you can't learn for free online. Most people just want it to go FAST and they get lured into these programs. Unfortunately real estate is kind of a slow game for pretty much everyone.
I agree that there is no secret to real estate. But just as I experienced when I took calculus at the university, there is an entire world of math out there that I didn't even know existed. And just because I have been using math my whole life, I had no idea that numbers could get so complicated and if I didn't understand these advanced concepts than I would fail at that high level.
Also, many people do want real estate to be a faster vehicle to wealth than what they are doing currently. Otherwise they would just follow the Dave Ramsey approach and live on rice and beans for years and years and save their way to financial peace by the time they are 65 or 70 so they can finally live "like no one else." Real estate can be a much faster vehicle which is why I think people choose it over other things. And it definitely does not need to be a slow process.
I would spend a lot of time meeting your local investors first, and spending time networking on BP and exhaust the free resources as much as you can. These paid-for guru's wouldn't be selling these programs if they were making real money in RE.
If their real estate was going so well they would spend time on it making money, instead they prey on the naivety of beginners
I agree, I think it will be super helpful to get familiar with real estate through networking or attending meetups in your area. However, besides the forums, podcasts, and webinars here on BP and other websites, youtube, and podcast platforms, all of the other things I know of have costs associated with them (books, audiobooks, the large REI meetings and meetups).
The last comment is very common, yet very incorrect. There are gurus that I know that have millions and millions of dollars in real estate, they write books, they speak at seminars, they create charities, etc. And they are gurus. One in particular that comes to mind is Robert Shemin who wrote the book How Come That Idiot's Rich and I'm Not? He owns millions of dollars in real estate and he is a guru and an awesome speaker and presenter. He is very good and knowledgeable about real estate and about mindset and helping people move from a stuck position to an unstuck position to make goals for themselves that are much higher than they originally thought they could achieve. Being around him is motivating.
Over the last year of acquiring properties we had to slow down our personal purchases because the bank wanted to see next year's tax returns before continuing to give us loans. So instead of continuing to just buy properties for ourselves and risk becoming over leveraged until the bank loans come through, we started to help people in our private money lending group acquire under market properties themselves, help them rehab the properties with our subcontractors, set them up with tenants on lease options using forms prepared by lawyers to make sure everything is done correctly legally, and we walked them through the whole process for a fee. @Ali Boone calls this the BRRRRkey model. These investors are able to get a property that is tenanted, cash flowing at higher than average market rates, and they are able to step into 10-15% equity right off the bat increasing their net worth. We have done this a handful of time for a 5-6k fee. The investors are happy with it, We are happy with it because we are able to continue to use our system that generates good deals rather than just stopping and waiting 4 or 5 months for the bank to come around, and the new tenants are happy because they get a house to set down roots and work towards home ownership.
So here is a very clear example as to why someone who is doing well with their own real estate would start to coach others in real estate.
(By the way, this is not an offer that I am hiding in this post for people to reach out to me and ask me to coach them in real estate. We have a group of investors who lend us money on our deals and earn interest on their money while they get to learn our process of investing. Those are the people we coach through how to do this if they want to learn, but not anyone outside that group).
In my opinion, the top performers have mentors and coaches.
For these reasons and nice Post Shiloh explaining some of your recent deals in detail.. I have clients that have been doing turn key light for years.. its not bad way for everyone involved.. one of them has built a 50 plus home portfolio for a LA based client over the years.
its a long slog to just buy rentals and retire.. you need to do what your doing and force equity if you really really want to get somewhere big in short time.. just buying cash flow wont cut it.. it will cut it for a 20 to 30 year retirement program.. but for all of these younger folks on this site with the common theme of Hey I want to quit my job in 5 years and live on passive income.. that's a tough one.. can it happen in certain parts of the country and with someone fully hands on and they don't need much to live on like maybe 5k a month or 10k a month and they are happy for life.. but most cant live the rest of their life on such meager earnings.. as you age your bills can really go up. as you have children your bills go up.. things are more expensive. etc etc.
this is why I am a big proponent of the value add strategy.. you can build a pyramid with maybe rentals as a base but you need to make the big hits like your talking about.. I just bought into a company the first one real estate related that will help investors.. Its such a powerful software system that its patent pending I have been using it for over a year myself to make sure it is enterprise ready before I invested and put my name on it.. and just last week I closed on two deals in Portland right off of MLS that will make more than 150 to 200k Each in 6 months or so.. this software is going to cost less than half of what this guy is talking about .. and come with full instruction videos and access to myself and others.. WE will help fund the deals all the stuff I do in my day job.. but instead of just mentoring the software finds the deals DAY ONE.. the rest is easily learned.. and of course you cant be broke you have to have some means to buy the properties.. just like you need some means to buy a rental.. So like how excited you are on your different models that you learned about and replicated we are really looking forward to the roll out once out of beta.. and for a price Everyone can afford.. and even with that I know right now that only maybe 20% of those that buy it will even do anything with it.. that's just human nature but there are going to be folks across the country with a very distinct advantage over their competition ..what everyone does that send direct mail to the same the lists of properties that are easily found and easily marketed to along with 500k other investors.. WE are mining for gold nuggets not gold dust... Plus like I said a majority of what we buy is right off MLS.. we just use our software to find what we need to see if its worth making an offer on.. instead of writing and spending 10k a month on mail outs..
- Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes7y
None of the lenders or funds that offer education or coaching guarantee funding. They just off a higher degree of access and a more educated and ready borrower.
- San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 56 posts · 10 votes7y
@Shane Elias-Calles I would not pay $3600 for someone's course. In my experience those courses are offering the fundamentals you can find clearly outlined online, in books, and by reaching out to people. Experience is the best teacher. In the real world, even if someone is bringing you deal flow, they wouldn't ask for cash up front. They would expect a commission from the sale.
The reason these information products work so well is because of the majority held belief that getting "rich / successful" is an event. Becoming successful (whatever your definition may be) is not an event. It is a by product of your process. It just takes time and persistence. I learned about this in the Millionaire Fast Lane, which is a must read for any aspiring entrepreneur.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Nate Marshall:
None of the lenders or funds that offer education or coaching guarantee funding. They just off a higher degree of access and a more educated and ready borrower.
Its all in the message just like the guru who says you find it I fund it.. and we split profit up to the first 500k.. and OH yea pay me 25k to be one of my chosen few.. :) that's real and out there today.. cant recall the name but you probably know of it..
PS I understand I have been the preferred lender at a few guru events.. Montalongo and Vertucci to name a few.. probably did 300 plus deals with those two as in I mean funding their students.
- 7yLee RipmaPro MemberRental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Shane Elias-Calles
You can learn this yourself through BP, books, podcasts, etc. However, if you can shave some time off that learning curve coaching might be worth it. If it’ll save you a year and a costly mistake, you have more than paid for it. I never had coaching and I made some mistakes when I started. I recovered and learned and I’m fine with the mistakes - I could afford the time and money they cost me. The other thing about a coach is that it might force you to be accountable and take action. So I think you should do whatever will get you to take action. If you’ll do it alone, great. If this will accelerate you, awesome. At the end of the day 3600 really won’t matter that much. What will matter is how much action you took.
- Developer · Closter, NJ · Member since 2016 · 392 posts · 109 votes7y
@Shane Elias-Calles
This guy sounds like he is hungry for money. Never pay an investor to learn. Always make an effort for an investor
- Rental Property Investor · Charlotte NC · Member since 2019 · 306 posts · 183 votes7y
@Shane Elias-Calles
Shane, I hired a coach at $25k. Sit down with yourself and figure what are your goals and what you want to achieve.
Then pick a coach that has the same goal and mindset you have!
- Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 0 votes7y
@Mario Am I would love the list of 10 books or so the you would recommend for RE.
- Real Estate Broker · Ontario CA · Member since 2015 · 161 posts · 71 votes7y
Easy answer: It depends.
tldr: Worth it if you have the money AND the mentor is qualified and experienced to teach.
Everyone pays to learn, either in time or money or a combination of both. If you have an abundance of time then save the money, if you have a lack of time and an abundance of money then invest in yourself.
Information on being fit is online for free, but people still hire personal trainers and nutritionists. This is to cut down the learning curve time. Same reason engineers go to school, they pay for the education. They can learn it from a book but paying (and here is the catch) an experienced, qualified teacher cuts the time to learn.
- Developer · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 80 posts · 53 votes7y
@Thomas J Allen
Several of my mentors run 100million dollar a year companies, and have business coaches...
I’m playing devils advocate here but to say anyone who uses a coach isn’t a self starter is a bit naive
- Detroit, MI · Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 7 votes7y
@Shane Elias-Calles
Exactly. If you look, I was responding to a previous comment where someone said that. I completely understand why someone would want a mentor/coach. I am actually looking for a mentor because I think it would help mitigate the risks.
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