Best Place to House Hack for Software Engineer?

Best Place to House Hack for Software Engineer?

New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes

Hi All,

I'd like to start by saying thank you to anyone taking the time to read this post and reply! This is my first post on BiggerPockets. I've been reading financial books on real estate and stock investing. I just finished reading Set For Life, and I'm extremely inspired to take control of my financial future. I'm currently going to be interning at Amazon and NVIDIA during the second half of 2021 in Software Engineering.

Looking further ahead, since I'll be making around 150k before taxes, I want to make sure that 15-20k doesn't get eaten so I can reduce rent expenses. However, the Bay Area, where I currently live, has crazy high house prices. 

Therefore, I'm looking into Seattle, Austin, and Raleigh-Durham to move into after college and house-hack. These markets also seem to be pretty tough to pull off a house hack in, but the midwest properties (which seem to be more house-hack friendly) don't have tech hubs that are nearly as booming.

Which city should I be looking into as a new grad in Software Engineering to start my real estate journey?

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Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2020 · 44 posts · 71 votes
5y

Hi, @Kamil Kisielewicz!

Now is a really great time to house hack as a software engineer. I assume that with your profession you can work remotely, which means that you should go after the most profitable (and affordable) market for real estate investing. For the cities which you've listed, I would recommend that you look into Raleigh-Durham. The PwC and Urban Land Institute 2021 Emerging Trends in Real Estate: US and Canada report (which is a very prestigious and trusted publication in the real estate investing industry) ranked Raleigh-Durham as the #1 market for overall real estate perspectives in the coming year.

Our analysis of the most recent data shows that property prices are relatively affordable in Raleigh with a median value of $447k. Affordability is an important factor for someone who is just getting started in real estate, like you. Moreover, according to our data, the average cap rate for traditional properties in Raleigh is 2.2%. I know that this doesn't like a lot, but when compared to nationwide city averages and the average values in other top markets for long-term rental properties, it is actually one of the highest values across the nation. This is just an average city-level metric which indicates that Raleigh overall is a great place to invest in real estate at the moment. Of course, when choosing a specific property, you have to conduct detailed investment property analysis to optimize your return while staying within your budget.

If you are open to other locations, I can make a few suggestions as we've recently looked at the best locations for investing in small multifamily properties which is what you will be looking at for house hacking. Some top markets for buying a duplex or trplex to rent out on a long term basis at the moment include: Manchester, NJ; Napes, FL; Cincinnati, OH; Fort Wayne, IN; Detroit, MI; Baltimore, MD; Cleveland, OH, Syracuse, NY; Akron, OH; and Rochester, NY. These are the locations which offer the highest return for small multifamily properties.

Please feel free to ask any questions you might have about these markets or anything else.

Good luck with your first investment!

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  • Real Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 715 posts · 527 votes
    5y

    I vote Austin :)

  • Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    5y

    I'm looking at doing this myself. I checked some of the tech cities minus Raleigh and House hacking in the traditional sense with multi families looks tough but not impossible. If you do the traditional SFH and rent out rooms seems more doable but a little less privacy. I'm looking at Austin because my better half likes the oops in TX. Raleigh may be less inflated at this juncture if your ok with NC.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 75 posts · 47 votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz

    I'm a bit biased and agree with @Neil Narayan, Austin is an amazing city. My career was spent in tech and moving to Austin was one of the best decisions my wife and I made for our careers.

    Recently I walked away from the industry to focus full time on my companies and real estate. Being here gives me the flexibility to work across Texas and the entire southwest, plus leverage my past life/career.

    Candidly you can house hack anywhere, why not do it somewhere that you can W2 with incredible tech companies and live in and amazing city + there is no state income tax.

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Thomas Milas I'm definitely leaning towards the SFH route since I'm still single so I can take the tradeoff of the lack of privacy. Are you currently located in the Bay Area as well? I'd love to hear your story and experiences :)

  • Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Your salary outside SFBA is likely to be lower in lower cost of living cities. This is not to say Austin is an affordable place to call it home. Not cheap anymore.

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Paul Sedillo Out of all of the cities I've been looking at, Austin is definitely my favorite. I have a few really good friends who live and go to school there, so I've visited a few times. 

    The lack of income tax is very enticing, but the property tax isn't as much. From what I've read, Austin's advantages in RE tend to be more towards appreciation, which I don't want to bank on (please correct me if I'm wrong though). Are there ways to get around that to close the gap and get rentals/house-hacks to be at least cash-flow neutral?

    Also, congrats on leaving the W2! I would love to hear more about your experiences and what guided the flip to RE as opposed to other tech-related ventures. 

    Thanks again for the reply :) 

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Sam Shueh Thank you for the insight. As someone in tune with the SFBA real estate market, how would you recommend I proceed?

  • Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    Come to Dallas....plenty of tech here....and the homes probably more affordable than the other cities you mentioned.

    People forget about Dallas, but perhaps we are the birthplace of some tech.....companies like TI started the IC revolution here....and also Ross Perot and EDS from the old days is now Perot Systems....SABRE for Airlines and SABRE Decision Technologies for Operations Management Science.....and we have companies like Deloitte, Accenture, Solera, Uber, Amazon, AT&T, and plenty others.  Financial companies like Liberty Mutual, State Farm, Robinhood, Schwab, TD Ameritrade, Chase, and more.

    What's your specialty?

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Bruce Lynn I actually was born in Dallas and live there until I moved to the Bay around 12 years ago (Plano to be exact)! I wasn't aware of the presence of too many Tech companies in DFW, but I'll look into it further.

    My main specialty is in AI/Deep Learning, Computer Vision to be specific. Hopefully Dallas has some AI roles?

  • Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz   There's a pretty big meetup group now at https://www.meetup.com/Dallas-...   and UTD has a center of excellence for AI/Deep Learning.

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    Thank you so much @Bruce Lynn! I'll definitely do some more digging into Dallas opportunities; I'd love to connect with you to chat more about Dallas in the future.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2020 · 44 posts · 71 votes
    5y

    Hi, @Kamil Kisielewicz!

    Now is a really great time to house hack as a software engineer. I assume that with your profession you can work remotely, which means that you should go after the most profitable (and affordable) market for real estate investing. For the cities which you've listed, I would recommend that you look into Raleigh-Durham. The PwC and Urban Land Institute 2021 Emerging Trends in Real Estate: US and Canada report (which is a very prestigious and trusted publication in the real estate investing industry) ranked Raleigh-Durham as the #1 market for overall real estate perspectives in the coming year.

    Our analysis of the most recent data shows that property prices are relatively affordable in Raleigh with a median value of $447k. Affordability is an important factor for someone who is just getting started in real estate, like you. Moreover, according to our data, the average cap rate for traditional properties in Raleigh is 2.2%. I know that this doesn't like a lot, but when compared to nationwide city averages and the average values in other top markets for long-term rental properties, it is actually one of the highest values across the nation. This is just an average city-level metric which indicates that Raleigh overall is a great place to invest in real estate at the moment. Of course, when choosing a specific property, you have to conduct detailed investment property analysis to optimize your return while staying within your budget.

    If you are open to other locations, I can make a few suggestions as we've recently looked at the best locations for investing in small multifamily properties which is what you will be looking at for house hacking. Some top markets for buying a duplex or trplex to rent out on a long term basis at the moment include: Manchester, NJ; Napes, FL; Cincinnati, OH; Fort Wayne, IN; Detroit, MI; Baltimore, MD; Cleveland, OH, Syracuse, NY; Akron, OH; and Rochester, NY. These are the locations which offer the highest return for small multifamily properties.

    Please feel free to ask any questions you might have about these markets or anything else.

    Good luck with your first investment!

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2018 · 335 posts · 251 votes
    5y

    Come to Hawaii!! For quality of life, Hawaii is a great place to live. For the cost of living and saving, it's terrible though. 

    I'd suggest Indianapolis personally. Lots of opportunities to house hack with great average price to rent ratios. And you get a bustling up and coming city with lots of sports, bars, and things to do and see. 

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 304 posts · 185 votes
    5y

    Kamil, you are in a great position being a software engineer. The southeast Michigan / Detroit area is a software and engineering hub... the big 3 are hiring thousands of software engineers currently for electric cars. You are in demand. Not only are the big 3 here, but also suppliers to them and supporting industries. And new car companies like Rivian, Lordship motors are here because they positioned themselves to be close by (economies of scale).

    The local economy here is different than 2008. Now there's more diversification with mortgage, medical, hospital, etc industries.

    I house hack in metro Detroit which is not the city. It's the suburbs. It has low prices, great returns, and a large rental population. 

    https://media.gm.com/media/us/...

  • Investor · Cincinnati/Fort Thomas, KY · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 183 votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz My husband and I are in tech, also. Great careers to combine with real estate!

    Huntsville,

    AL is where my son is. Rated a top place to start a tech career. It is about 15 min from Tennessee with similar topography. NASA Marshall Flight Center is there, Dept of Defense Redstone Arsenal AND all suppliers (SpaceX, blue origin, Lockheed martin, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, etc.). Our friend that moved there last year is a TV producer and has lived all over . She says so many companies are moving people there. The town is all IT, engineers, military and medical people from all over the world. Plus great access to large Guntersville lake, Tennessee River and 90 min from Nashville. Good luck on your adventures!

  • Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz I've enjoyed househacking in Austin so far myself! I like to buy rehab projects and increase the value of them.

  • Rental Property Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 493 posts · 386 votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz

    I vote Raleigh but which ever city you pick you should visit before making final decision..

    I like your approach too many young investors want to skip U or leave their W2 but in reality if you have a high income W2 will make it easier to start your RE journey.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz wherever you go I'd consider doing an FHA loan with 3.5% down payment. I think you should expect appreciation in your property but not depend on it. Be ready to stay at least 5 years in your first house or more if somehow RE prices went down(unlikely). Also you'll have a hard time getting approved with a bank if you don't have 2 years of employment history so you may need to get patient. If you have a family in Dallas I'd move with your parents if possible and save a ton for the next 2 years and then buy a duplex or triplex...

    On a different note, I’m a software engineer in LA, I’m starting a cool AI/ML project, let me know if you have bandwidth and want a side project ;-)

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Aliso Viejo, CA · Member since 2020 · 29 posts · 32 votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz

    Orange County is where I got my start! Professionals are willing to pay $1200/mo and upward for nice rooms! I’m a broker here if you want to explore.

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz I think you'll find the same problem in Seattle as the Bay Area. 

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Daniela Andreevska Thank you so much for the advice! Funnily enough, my consultant friend from UNC sent me a screenshot of the PwC Emerging Trends, but I wasn't aware that it was so highly respected. Would it be wise to consider out of state investment in any of the markets you mentioned (especially since I lack experience)? Is the CoC return in Raleigh-Durham positive, or is it more of an appreciation market like Austin?

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Daniel Kong Hawaii seems awesome but I don't think there are too many tech jobs at the big firms in that area. Maybe when I have more capital... Indianapolis seems interesting, I used to watch the Colts games back when Andrew Luck was QB because I was a huge Stanford fan. I'll definitely look into it more.

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Andrew Powers Detroit REALLY intrigued me after I listened to the podcast episode where a lady was discussing their low prices. How did you end up in Detroit? Are you also a Software Engineer?

  • Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2020 · 44 posts · 71 votes
    5y

    @Kamil Kisielewicz You are very welcome!

    After the publication of the PwC report, my team conducted analysis of the top 10 markets for overall real estate perspectives based on our data. Our analysis is focused on the performance of traditional rental properties, looking at monthly rental income for long-term rental rentals, city-average CoC return, price to rent ratio, etc. The city-average CoC return for Raleigh is 2.2% at the moment. While this doesn't sound like a lot, when compared to the city averages for other top locations, it's really good. Of course, you can find individual properties with a significantly higher return, but this is one of the best indicators for how profitable a market is overall.

    I would definitely recommend looking into Raleigh as you can make money in the short run through rental income, not only in the long term through appreciation.

    Investing out of state is a great option in this case. After all, you have to look for the best location and the best opportunity, even if it is not where you are located. By hiring a professional property management company, you can definitely get into out of state investing, even as a beginner.

  • New to Real Estate · San Jose, CA · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Sandra Morrison I'm considering Nashville since it seems VERY similar to Austin, but I wasn't aware there was so much Space and Government Tech going on near the area as well! Thank you for your reply :)

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