psycho contractor pours concrete down drains because he was fired

psycho contractor pours concrete down drains because he was fired

Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes

I had a rental house in Kansas City come vacant in January and hired a handyman ..in process of trying to become a contractor (he had recently formed an LLC company)... to replace some tiles and paint...simple job and nothing complicated. He came highly recommended as he had done good work for a couple people I respect & I had used him on smaller fixes and no problems. He also used to work at a large respected property mngt company that manages 1000 properties.

My job was suppose to be done end of February and we kept giving him extensions until finally we got super fed up & gave him a hard deadline of last week. We told him we'd pay him for whatever he could finish by then but he was off the job...fired basically. The work he did was extremely poor quality and mostly having to be redone. I suspect he might have fallen into hard drug use based on the work quality of what I saw & what the neighbors told me they saw of him when he did show up in the middle of the night. I did pay him partial payment and withheld funds to fix what wasn't done or done poorly...more than fair.  Although he let it be known that he thought he had done a perfect job & was completely delusional about it. 

I noticed the basement drain backing up on his final day after he had just left (and before he knew what he was going to get paid) but just thought it was the drain clogged and yesterday when my plumber came out he found there were rocks and cement that had been flushed down the sewage pipes which was causing the sewage to back up in the basement. There is even cement that was poured down the tub drain and cement over the drain in the basement..every plumbing hole he could find he poured cement in. My plumber said whoever did this spent a lot of time flushing rocks and he estimated about 80 pounds of cement down the sewer. He said it had to have been flushed down the toilet to get that far in the pipes & it was a crap ton of cement and whoever did it took A LOT of time to get that much rocks and cement down the pipes. I called the police and they told me that because I don't have him on video and no one saw him do it and because he had legal permission to be in the house working on it when this was done there was nothing they could do. They wouldn't even do a report. 

 No one else but him had keys/access to the house so clearly it was him or someone he brought in to work with but can't imagine why anyone but him would have a motive to do this & go to this much trouble. I feel he did it to get back at me for firing him. 

I am also afraid of what he is capable of doing if I publicly go after him too hard seeing how crazy he is but at the same time he's going to be out there possibly working for other investors or property management companies or homeowners etc and is a dangerous & super vindictive psychotic person. 

I am interested to hear what advice you guys have for me as I'm not sure what my next step to be. Feel free to PM me as well. 

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Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@Laura Williams

I'd back charge him for any rework, drain cleaning, and cost associated with changing the locks. Then I'd share this information with the people you respect that have used him in the past.

Don't think there is much to be gotten out of a civil action, so don't think I would pursue that.

Captain Hindsight, Never fire someone with notice. Clean breaks are way better. He should have found out he was off the job when he was off the job.

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  • Investor · NV and CA · Member since 2016 · 374 posts · 227 votes
    6y

    I'm so sorry to hear that, Laura.  Does your homeowners insurance have coverage for something like this?

  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    6y

    @Ryan Fox they might but guessing this would probably be under or at the deductible 🙄

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Laura Williams:

    I had a rental house in Kansas City come vacant in January and hired a handyman ..in process of trying to become a contractor (he had recently formed an LLC company)... to replace some tiles and paint...simple job and nothing complicated. He came highly recommended as he had done good work for a couple people I respect & I had used him on smaller fixes and no problems. He also used to work at a large respected property mngt company that manages 1000 properties.

    My job was suppose to be done end of February and we kept giving him extensions until finally we got super fed up & gave him a hard deadline of last week. We told him we'd pay him for whatever he could finish by then but he was off the job...fired basically. The work he did was extremely poor quality and mostly having to be redone. I suspect he might have fallen into hard drug use based on the work quality of what I saw & what the neighbors told me they saw of him when he did show up in the middle of the night. I did pay him partial payment and withheld funds to fix what wasn't done or done poorly...more than fair.  Although he let it be known that he thought he had done a perfect job & was completely delusional about it. 

    I noticed the basement drain backing up on his final day after he had just left (and before he knew what he was going to get paid) but just thought it was the drain clogged and yesterday when my plumber came out he found there were rocks and cement that had been flushed down the sewage pipes which was causing the sewage to back up in the basement. There is even cement that was poured down the tub drain and cement over the drain in the basement..every plumbing hole he could find he poured cement in. My plumber said whoever did this spent a lot of time flushing rocks and he estimated about 80 pounds of cement down the sewer. He said it had to have been flushed down the toilet to get that far in the pipes & it was a crap ton of cement and whoever did it took A LOT of time to get that much rocks and cement down the pipes. I called the police and they told me that because I don't have him on video and no one saw him do it and because he had legal permission to be in the house working on it when this was done there was nothing they could do. They wouldn't even do a report. 

     No one else but him had keys/access to the house so clearly it was him or someone he brought in to work with but can't imagine why anyone but him would have a motive to do this & go to this much trouble. I feel he did it to get back at me for firing him. 

    I am also afraid of what he is capable of doing if I publicly go after him too hard seeing how crazy he is but at the same time he's going to be out there possibly working for other investors or property management companies or homeowners etc and is a dangerous & super vindictive psychotic person. 

    I am interested to hear what advice you guys have for me as I'm not sure what my next step to be. Feel free to PM me as well. 

     Oh man brutal.....Contractor from Hell!

  • Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Laura Williams

    I'd back charge him for any rework, drain cleaning, and cost associated with changing the locks. Then I'd share this information with the people you respect that have used him in the past.

    Don't think there is much to be gotten out of a civil action, so don't think I would pursue that.

    Captain Hindsight, Never fire someone with notice. Clean breaks are way better. He should have found out he was off the job when he was off the job.

  • Tim JacobPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2016 · 520 posts · 379 votes
    6y

    This is far and away the most expensive catastrophe Ive heard of from someone directly.  Second place was a little different.  Someone decided not to pay their contractor everything owed at the end of the job.  After he realized he wasn't getting paid he went back there went to the upstairs bedroom cut a section of drywall after which he cut a section of waterline out and then drywalled and painted the hole he made.  The water was left on for a week and when she came back her basement was submerged upto a foot.  I knew the guy who cleaned it.  

    Worse yet for you the clog goes below the slab outside I just hope it doesnt get to the municipal main and clog there where you could be held liable.  Outside of arson or a natural disaster like a twister this is horrible.  

    I guess the thing is to realize that you cant end things abruptly.  I have had plenty of bad contractors but it never has gotten to swearing and threats

  • Real Estate Broker · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 749 posts · 399 votes
    6y

    @Laura Williams, wow. Sorry, that happened. We have done a lot of flips and BRRRs for OOS investors. It is rare but unfortunately, you come across people like that.  Change your locks, if he had a check or the combo lockbox at a minimum. If you leave there, great. If it is vacant, SimpliSafe is a good security system. Personally, I would professionally fight back. I found contractors like that don't respond to reason.  Be careful.  Feel free to DM me if you want to talk about more options or need help. We are local here in KC.  

  • Gordon CuffePro Member
    Investor · Roseville, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 584 votes
    6y

    @Laura WilliamsThat is the worse thing I have ever heard a so called contractor do. I hope you dm me his name so that I can avoid him. I own properties in the Kansas City market so I would hate to accidently hire him. 

  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    6y

    @Todd Rasmussen @Tim Jacob there wasn’t an abrupt firing or any bad words said or temper going. This guy was saying up until the last minute he was going to be 100% finished by the deadline and not to worry. and we said great but there was a deadline and this was the final deadline ...cause we had given him multiple chances to finish. That’s part of the reason it’s so upsetting and I feel he’s a complete psycho to do something like this. I might could even understand it more if it was a tenant that I was evicting but this was someone I was nice to and had recommended and given work to that worked on my PM’s own personal house. 

    @Dan Krupa thank you. 

  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    6y

    @Gordon Cuffe I will do that. Thank you. 

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    I would love to hear the contractors side to this event . To go to those lengths there is more to this story . 

  • Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    6y

    If he is licensed, as is probably required in NY....you should absolutely report him to the licensing board, go after his bond and/or liability insurance. you may win a ruling or may not, but, it will be a bad mark on his license history, at least. If he's not licensed, you are probably just a liable for hiring him as he is for doing the job, but check with your attorney.


    In CA you can do $500 or $600 total job value(i forget which) or less, without a license.

    You may be in for a real rude awakening, as it would not surprise me if the only way to fix that damage, is an extensive and/or complete drain re-pipe...will cost some thousands, if not tens of thousands.

    Sorry for your loss!

  • Investor · NJ · Member since 2018 · 869 posts · 921 votes
    6y

    Did you have a contract drawn up with the guy? If so talk to your lawyer. Maybe he didn't fulfill his end of the contract and you can sue for damages. To be honest though if the guys a druggie you'll never see a cent. 

    If he doesnt have the proper licensing and didn't have a written contract with you, it's a great lesson for the future to only hire licensed legitimate contractors. If he doesnt have the proper licensing talk to your local licensing board and explain to them the situation.

    All too often people talk about screening tennats but you should also be screening your contractors. Cheap handyman and contractors always come with issues like this and give the whole industry a bad rep. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Clovis, CA · Member since 2014 · 195 posts · 194 votes
    6y

    @Laura Williams

    I bought a REO once that had cement in the drains. Apparently the previous owner had done it on his way out. Luckily we had a wood subfloor and a decent crawl space and we were able to easily cut out and replace pipes once we figured out the problem. Yours seems much worse! I think I would fix the problem and move on. There's no telling what this guy might do if things escalate. Good luck!

  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    6y

    @George W. yes we had a written contract so it was easy to figure out what was owed or not owed. The job was pretty simple and mostly painting and laying some tile which doesn’t require a license in Missouri. 

    He was recommended by the vice-president of a property mngt company that manages 1k properties that worked for him for a couple years and he did a good job with another friend of mines kitchen he renovated. He wasn’t someone I found on Craigslist. Not sure how better to vet someone but lesson learned. 

    @Matthew Paul I’m sure if you asked him he would lie and say he didn’t do it. I have invoice & text messages from him (after he poured cement in the drain) asking to get paid in full ASAP  & that he has ‘kids’ and needs to get paid. 

    @Mark Freeman you’re probably right. Lol. It just feels like such a violation. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I would try and get a police report. They're not going to arrest him but it'd be nice to plop that paper down in front of the judge when you sue the guy. Was he dumb enough to leave the empty bag of concrete there? If so, keep it as his prints and only his prints would be on it. 

    If the guy has a review page (Yelp, Google+, Homeadvisor, Angie's List, etc.) I would write factual reviews on all sites about what happened with photos of what he did. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Laura Williams:

    @Todd Rasmussen  there wasn’t an abrupt firing or any bad words said or temper going. This guy was saying up until the last minute he was going to be 100% finished by the deadline and not to worry. and we said great but there was a deadline and this was the final deadline ...cause we had given him multiple chances to finish. That’s part of the reason it’s so upsetting and I feel he’s a complete psycho to do something like this. I might could even understand it more if it was a tenant that I was evicting but this was someone I was nice to and had recommended and given work to that worked on my PM’s own personal house. 

    If you told me, "After next friday you are off this job and whatever you finish by then I'll write you a check for."

    I'd translate that, "You are fired next Friday, so you'd better finish."

    Rationally, yeah that means move your a$$ and get it done, but in this case he went out to the jobsite resentful and spent his time messing with your property.

    To me, at the point that you had that conversation is the point to cut ties. I get the last chance mentality but he doesn't need to know he's on the edge and if that's what it takes to get performance, you need a new vendor anyways.

    Hindsight is 20/20, and the biggest factor in all this is that this guy is a lunatic so I definitely don't think you have any reason to beat yourself up, just be careful, he's not the only one out there.

  • Investor · NJ · Member since 2018 · 869 posts · 921 votes
    6y

    Theres a lot of ways to vet a contractor just by talking to the guy for 5 minutes. I'm on small to large jobs as a plumber all the time and have met all different kinds of subcontractors over the years and honestly the ones who are hacks all have the same stories:

    #1 they can always start a large project right away. Major red flag. That usually means they are desperate for quick cash.

    #2 they always have stories about how they used to be a big time hot shot building new big $$$ custom houses until "insert excuse". Usually that excuse is that their ex wives screwed them over, an ex-business partner stole their equipment, they got locked up for child support etc. That list is endless. 

    #3 they can never physically show you any jobs that they just finished up in the area or refuse to give you references of jobs they just did.

    #4 you recognize their truck and realize that where you've noticed it is that it's always at your local bar. 

    #5 not saying everyone who's ever been to jail is a bad person but alot of these hacks have been in and out jail a few times. 

    #6 people tend to hire employees that are alot like themselves. If their employees are dirtbags usually the apple dont fall far from the tree. Try to meet their Forman and a worker before they start. 

    #7 they refuse to pull any permits because "insert excuse". Usually that excuse is that "the local inspector is out to get me"  

    #8 they show up to look at the job for an estimate and look horrible. Now i can understand being a little dirty because the last job was a little messy but coming to the job late, smelling like the inside of an A-hole wearing a bud light tee shirt and having overgrown hair and face tattoos says alot about the kind of business you run. A professional shows up to estimates presentable. Its not a fashion show but first impressions and got feelings shouldn't be totally ignored. 

    #9 "they're licensed" but when you ask for their license number they wont give it to you or they dont have it on their business card. Most places if your advertising your contracting business you legally have to disclose your lic# and name. If they acutally have a lic# and you look it up you can see if its active and has had any actions against it. 

    #10 the salesman. Promises you the world when they come to look at the job but when you ask them any technical questions about your job they change the subject or bs. 

  • Crown Point, IN · Member since 2018 · 56 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    Wow. I have had contractors that had underwhelming competence but nothing malicious like this.

  • Rental Property Investor · Elkhart, IN · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 52 votes
    6y

    @Laura Williams

    @Laura Williams

    This is definitely a first, sorry to hear about this.

    You did the right thing by getting a reference from a trusted source, but I guess this really emphasizes the point around having a good team/contacts which is something I have struggled with throughout my handful of years experience. That said I am going to start working building my team on right away as a result of this post. Sorry to learn a lesson at your expense.

    From a response perspective I would suggest reporting his newly formed LLC to the Better Business Bureau and writing a review on whatever websites possible. Hopefully that prevents something like this from happening to someone else.

  • Realtor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    @Laura Williams If this contractor was a licensed by the state then you should be able to go to the State Licensing Authority and report this contractor and be able to recoup any losses and back charges. In the state of Maryland you can recoup up to $20,000 / contractor. Hope this helps .Best of Luck

  • Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Not much mention of this, but I'd 100% go to the police. That's crazy-town, could cost you a fortune both now and with potential future problems, and people honestly can't just go around and do things like that. It's straight-up vandalism. If you stay quiet out of fear of what he'll do, he'll keep doing things like that to people and you'll be the one on the hook for paying to fix it- insurance or not. I'm not even sure your insurance company would cover that... it wasn't an accident? Either way, at a minimum they'd need a police report anyway.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Trey Williams He wasnt a licensed contractor , she says he was a Handyman ( not licensed ) . And if this were in Maryland the fund doesnt pay for loses from unlicensed individuals . ( they may procute though) . And backcharges are unenforcable .     ( I hold a MHIC license in Md )

  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    6y

    @Ali Boone that’s the first thing I did was call the police. They came out and wouldn’t even write up a report because they said when he poured the concrete down the drain he had permission to be there as he was ‘working’ ....he poured it probably on his last day of work there and I actually have a photo if it clogged and time stamped although I didn’t realize at the time it was clogged because he poured cement down it. 

    They told me if he had broken back in after he was fired then they could do a report and it would be criminal. But in any case they told me without someone seeing him actually do it or video of it that it doesn’t hold up in court either civally (to sue him) or criminally. Even though he was the only one who had access and keys to the house during the time it was done. I changed the locks the second he was out of there so there is no way it wasn’t him or one of his people. I’ve left a message for my lawyer but it’s just so messed up someone can legally get away with this & police do nothing. 

  • Broadus, MT · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    @Laura Williams

    Wow that's awful. Vandalism coverage from your insurance policy should apply. Might only be out the deductible, time and hassle.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Matthew Paul. "I would love to hear the contractors side to this event . To go to those lengths there is more to this story"

    Ya? What would the contractor need to say for you to think any of this was ok?

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