Verifying Members: How can BP help you more safely connect?

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Verifying Members: How can BP help you more safely connect?

Joshua D.Pro Member
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes

One of the challenges that we all face today, I believe, is coming to know and trust people that we meet online.

This is an incredibly difficult task for everyone, and is why doing your due diligence on deals and people is paramount these days.

We've been brainstorming for some time how to come up with a way to help you with this task and have come up with some ideas.

Before we proceed with anything, I wanted to get your feedback, as I think it will help us find our path forward.

Q1: If You're Going to Do Business with Someone, how much information would you want from them to identify that they are who they say they are?

In other words, what would I need someone to show me to prove that they are who they say they are?

Q2: Beyond a drivers license or passport match, are there other methods that would help you feel confident that someone is who they claim to be?

Q3: In order to make yourself more "credible," would you be willing to pay some fee (TBD) for BiggerPockets to "verify" that you (the person you claim to be on your BP profile) are who you really are.

I've spoken with several members who believe that having some means to verify your ID is a great step in the right direction. They felt that by our "verifying" their identity, it would give them more legitimacy and would help them stand out amongst those people here (and elsewhere online) who use fake names/identities.

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Personally, I think it also lends more legitimacy, and hope that you agree. We're also exploring ideas about verifying that a member has done the deals/business that they claim . . . more about this another time.

This is an extremely important subject and I'm looking forward to your feedback.

Thanks!

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Brad B.
Contractor · Arcade, NY · Member since 2011 · 44 posts · 31 votes
15y

I think this is an interesting issue and I'm glad to see it addressed in this forum.

The first thing I would say is that BP should probably not act as the verifying agent. Taking money and issuing a verified-by certification based on BP management evaluation for someone's profile is asking for trouble. I think a few litigators just wet themselves in excitement thinking about it.

If I owned BP, I would keep as far out of the mix as possible except to provide a central directory. I would look to act simply as a broker or a trusted middle man. Take the money to cover a background / identity check and then pass that off to a reputable vendor. If everything comes back good, then issue the avatar or whatever device to show the person is reasonably believed to be who they say they are.

This model does offer up quite an opportunity for enhanced checks. See if the vendor is willing to do a simple check for some low amount covered within the price of a pro account membership. That would be a good entry level. If a member wants a more thorough validation, say if they were doing more deals via the site, then offer an enhanced background through the vendor. It may be a good marketing expense for the member.

The big thing is to not have BP make the final determination on who is trustworthy and who isn't. Base the data on the analysis of a company specially designed to absorb the risks associated.

My day job doesn't specifically do backgrounds, but I deal with it quite a bit. Generally, we see basic checks being done reasonably - a couple hundred dollars - which if you could negotiate a volume deal with a vendor, you could probably negotiate that price down to something manageable for a membership upsell. A good due-diligence check for someone in an important position normally runs a few thousand, which again could be negotiated as an upsell.

After that we start seeing big dollars. A corporate board member investigation could run into the $100k+ range depending on the company. Your typical top secret bg investigation would be somewhere in that range as well. My rambling point is that even at those top levels, no one can be 100%. It becomes about acceptable risk.

I would hate to see BP go away because someone trusted someone else in a deal gone bad because of a determination made solely by BP management and the lawyers came out to play. I think the idea is great, as long as it's executed correctly.

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Jake Kucheck:
    I think Bryan is asking if he could continue to be BryanA or if he would need to be Bryan Alenky in your proposed verification system.

    Jake - That is what I was thinking, but wanted to be sure. Actually, we will be completely eliminating the use of usernames across the site in the coming weeks/months. Frankly, it is impersonal and is reminiscent of the early days of online networking. It is also silly, given the fact that anyone can follow the link to your profile to find your posted first/last name.

    So, to answer the question, eventually the only use of a username will be for the location of your profile URL.

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y

    Great points Brad and Bill. I don't think it is the responsibility of BP to do people's DD for them, but I do think that we can assist our members.

    Twitter has had "Verified" accounts for some time. They aren't verifying whether someone is a scammer or anything like that -- just that the profile of the user is the actual profile of the user. They use it on profiles of celebrities mostly, but it makes sense to do something similar on our site for the same essential purpose.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Ok, can you make a list of what you would have to have from me to verify what I have posted? What do I need to do?

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    Ok, can you make a list of what you would have to have from me to verify what I have posted? What do I need to do?

    I don't understand what you're asking? Can you clarify?

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  • Nick J.
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:

    Jake - That is what I was thinking, but wanted to be sure. Actually, we will be completely eliminating the use of usernames across the site in the coming weeks/months.

    Whoa!!! Please tell me you can't be serious?

    The term Motiv8td is something I've used and I what I consider 'Branded' to me.

    When I'm 'googled' many of my BP posts/threads etc.. show up at the or toward the top of my search results.

    This is really bad news for someone like me :cry: Especially coming at a time where I was planning on increasing my activity on BP in the coming weeks/months as I progress in my new(er) activities.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    Ok, can you make a list of what you would have to have from me to verify what I have posted? What do I need to do?

    I don't understand what you're asking? Can you clarify?

    If you would like to verify my name and my experience as listed in my profile, what information would you want from me in order to do so?

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y

    Nick - I'm very serious. I don't have a date (we haven't started working on it yet), but this is something that will happen. If your username is Motiv8td, then when people google you, they will still find your profile - http://www.biggerpockets.com/users/Motiv8td

    The "branding" of that username won't go away. What will change is that when people go to the forum, instead of seeing Motiv8td next to your posts, they will see "Nick J."

    Of course, you can still use it in your signature if you'd like.

    With 230,000 monthly users of this site, we're never going to please everyone, but this step - which, as I said isn't imminent - is an important one for elevating the quality of our site and the networking that takes place on it.

    If you want to talk about it more, please start a new thread . . . I'm happy to discuss.

    Thanks.

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:

    If you would like to verify my name and my experience as listed in my profile, what information would you want from me in order to do so?

    Bill - The first part of your question is the very reason for this thread. That's what I was asking you guys1 ;)

    As for verifying your experience, we'll save that for another discussion . . . . right now, we're only toying with the idea of sorting out how best to "verify" someone is who they claim they are.

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  • Conrad Z.
    Investor · chino hills, CA · Member since 2008 · 13 posts · 5 votes
    15y

    HI Josh, site rocks as usual. How about deleting users that have been inactive for a year or more.
    I know you dont like the membership numbers to go down but it would make for alot less clutter in the members area. I've tried to get in touch with a few people my zip code and never received responses. Just a suggestion and once again this site is by far the best!!

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  • Nick J.
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:

    The "branding" of that username won't go away. What will change is that when people go to the forum, instead of seeing Motiv8td next to your posts, they will see "Nick J."

    Thanks.

    Whew! I was skurd for a second.

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y

    Hey Conrad - It is an interesting suggestion and one that I and other social site folks are torn with. If Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc, all closed old accounts, their numbers would surely be FAR less impressive. We do delete spam accounts every day - in fact, we delete on the scale of 20-30 now.

    If you look on a profile, you can see the last times someone logged in. I definitely recommend using that feature before you try to connect. If they haven't been around in years, the odds that they will be responsive are much less, clearly.

    Perhaps we could add a filter in the user search where we allowed you to see "all users" who match your criteria OR those who are active within (6 mos, 1 year, 2 yrs).... something to think about...

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  • Kobus De Villiers
    Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 44 posts · 12 votes
    15y

    I think as other people has stated a verification that includes driver license is probably a safe choice. The address might be slightly different since I use my business address here rather than personal address, but it is in the same city.

    As a new member I would probably have been scared off by having to enter my drivers license when registering for the first time. Now that I know the community here better I'll feel comfortable with it. As long as this verification remains an option it should be fine.

    My last name does have a space in some gov databases and others cannot contain a space and cause some confusion. IRS spelling is different from drivers license so it is something that should be considered.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Josh, my question as to what would you want from me was not so much as to giving me a list of veriications, but rather have you think about how difficult it would be to verify my deals, what I have done and just general experience. If you want verifications to that extent from someone like myself, do you have any idea how much time, effort and materials would be involved? Tons of stuff!

    If my posts can't be examined on their own merit, which is what people should be doing, then this concept misses the mark IMO.

    I'm not so technologically advanced we will say, but what I see is that going the name route seems to tie into other systems, twitter maybe, facebook and the like.

    I don't really care if John Smith is using the name Joe Shmuck, it makes no difference in anything presented by Joe. Not until I get into some business relationship with Joe do I need to know it's a user name and I should put John on the documents. If he does not tell me he is John, then we may have a case of fruad. None of that concerns BP unless you're just personally concerned in looking out for the welfare of members, admirable thought, but you're not endorsing any business here.

    While I don't have a business relationship tied to Financexaminer, I would not want to lose that "brand" either, as Nick mentioned, but, whatever, my name is front and center anyway.

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  • Account Closed
    Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Conrad Z.:
    HI Josh, site rocks as usual. How about deleting users that have been inactive for a year or more.
    I know you dont like the membership numbers to go down but it would make for alot less clutter in the members area. I've tried to get in touch with a few people my zip code and never received responses. Just a suggestion and once again this site is by far the best!!

    I think that a better search function when searching for potential network contents could go a long way in solving this. Perhaps a filter could be applied that allows the user to only see those that have been active in the last several months, days, year whatever.

    0Reply
  • Aaron Mazzrillo
    Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    15y

    I think you should do an annual event or even better would be a cruise. Have a few guest speakers, some networking events. Could be a really great time. Maybe east coast on the even years, west coast the odd years.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Aaron, that's in the works, I think.

    Josh, again, I'll make it shorter this time;

    Why do you think BP should be the intemediary to veryify what should be accomplished by and between memebers? You have no liability in this. If you take that step, why not endorse or disqualify systems, programs or strategies that are learned on BP that may be incorrect or even illegal in some states? I think by BP doing any verification of such issues actually opens the door to an implied reliance on BP and thereby creating a laibility issue.

    0Reply
  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y

    Bill - Just looking to help our membership.... all I'm talking about right now -- is confirming that the person whose name is on your profile, is the same as you -- the person authorizing the account. We aren't in the business of validating people or anything like that -- simply confirming that when someone looks up your profile and sees a name, that name is the same as yours.

    It is a small, but I believe, important first step.

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