"Doors Syndrome" in Real Estate

Member since 2022 · 40 posts · 13 votes

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

When someone buys into a syndication of an apartment building with 100 doors for $1,000 they willl say they own 100 doors. It's like buying stock.

Don't worry about people who need an ego boost who are making false claims. I define "false" as information intentionally intended to deceive, kind of like the goverment and unemployment. ;-)

based the syndication model I have more doors than i can count LOL.. means nothing.

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Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
3y
My guess is it depends on the person. I wouldn't worry about how many doors someone has because not all homes are the same.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

When someone buys into a syndication of an apartment building with 100 doors for $1,000 they willl say they own 100 doors. It's like buying stock.

Don't worry about people who need an ego boost who are making false claims. I define "false" as information intentionally intended to deceive, kind of like the goverment and unemployment. ;-)
6 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

When someone buys into a syndication of an apartment building with 100 doors for $1,000 they willl say they own 100 doors. It's like buying stock.

Don't worry about people who need an ego boost who are making false claims. I define "false" as information intentionally intended to deceive, kind of like the goverment and unemployment. ;-)

based the syndication model I have more doors than i can count LOL.. means nothing.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
6 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

When someone buys into a syndication of an apartment building with 100 doors for $1,000 they willl say they own 100 doors. It's like buying stock.

Don't worry about people who need an ego boost who are making false claims. I define "false" as information intentionally intended to deceive, kind of like the goverment and unemployment. ;-)

yea , i saw it all the times lol this is very funny
also i dont understand some folks are so bragging that they own X door as GP but never mentioned the profit after all the costs :-)
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

When someone buys into a syndication of an apartment building with 100 doors for $1,000 they willl say they own 100 doors. It's like buying stock.

Don't worry about people who need an ego boost who are making false claims. I define "false" as information intentionally intended to deceive, kind of like the goverment and unemployment. ;-)

based the syndication model I have more doors than i can count LOL.. means nothing.

Hi Jay, this is related to other post (I don't remember which one) but related to this post.

So this guy is only having one house, but :

Today
Jan 18, 2023

Date
Listed (Active)
MLSListings #ML81916549

$2,098,000
Price

May 1972, Sold for $28,000
May 1, 1972

Date

Sold (Public Records)
Public Records

Price $28,000

So in half century, the return on investment is 75 times LOL.
Compare to someone that invest in S&P500 in 1972, the return is only 5 times the original investment.
0 Reply
Eric Bilderback
Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
My to tombstone will read,
"I did it for the doors baby"
6 Reply
Eric James
Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
Just look at all the BP interview videos "We went from 0 to 1000 units in a year." Almost everyone in BP interviews counts doors purchased with partners as "theirs".
5 Reply
Billy Daniel
Rental Property Investor · Russellville, AR · Member since 2014 · 688 posts · 509 votes
3y
If you're going to tell me about the number of doors you have, you better also tell me your personal profit/door. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe you made some bad purchases....

Maybe I'm a little too cynical?
1 Reply
Jon KellyPro Member
Investor · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2016 · 929 posts · 951 votes
3y
@James Sloan who cares? Are you basing your goals / decisions off of what other people are saying? If one person says they have 20 doors and another says 1,000 will you change your business plan accordingly?
The real answer is: most people will include all doors they are associated with whether they own 100% or 5%. It's about bragging rights, attention and promotion. Would you rather listen to someone with 20 doors or 1,000? Probably 1,000.
2 Reply
Sanat Bhandari
Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2021 · 244 posts · 163 votes
3y
@James Sloan Most people include partnerships or limited equity type situations when they're referring to the amount of doors they have

Doors is a fairly meaningless metric in my opinion. What's more impressive is the financials on those doors. Are all those doors cash flowing? Do they have low vacancy? What kind of properties are they? How good are the operations? Quality > Quantity is the key here

I know guys with lots of doors who bought subpar stuff and they generally pay for it one way or the other (bad tenants, losing money on liquidations etc) because, more often than not, emotion (As Jon Kelly said, fame of a 1000 doors > 20 doors) gets in the way

Being well capitalized (partners, LOCs etc) is great but what's even better is when you buy a deal with solid financials and fairly low, well-measured risk going into it
4 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Jon Kelly:

@James Sloan who cares? Are you basing your goals / decisions off of what other people are saying? If one person says they have 20 doors and another says 1,000 will you change your business plan accordingly?
The real answer is: most people will include all doors they are associated with whether they own 100% or 5%. It's about bragging rights, attention and promotion. Would you rather listen to someone with 20 doors or 1,000? Probably 1,000.

keep in mind unless they are paying cash they are in partnership with their lender LOL and or investors. to me the metric is I own X amount of doors free and clear with NO partners.
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2 Reply
Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
3y
Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.
Why not just ask the person (if it's something you really want to know).

Sometimes very large deals will have a few partners, and not everyone has the same percentage ownership.

People will just say what they say--"My family owns several apartments" "I'm a landlord" "We own cash flowing rental properties" "I own X doors", etc..

If you want more detail--ask the person.
Good Luck!
1 Reply
Scott E.
Contractor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
As others have stated, the # of doors you own is a meaningless metric.
You could own 100 doors in a D class neighborhood that 'cash flow' $10,000 per month but are riddled with turnover, vacancies, crime, delinquent tenants, evictions, repairs, maintenance, and lawsuit risk. Or you could own 30 doors in a B class neighborhood that 'cash flow' $10,000 per month with stable tenants, little to no headache, and minimal deferred maintenance.
Plus no matter what way you slice it, scaling to 100+ doors is very capital intensive. As much as we hear gurus preach ways to buy real estate with little or no money down, it doesn't work that way much in real life. This is why people bring on equity partners then advertise that they "own" a bunch of doors when in reality they "owe" a bunch of people money.
3 Reply
Paul De Luca
Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Unless you have a lot of capital on your own, most people with a lot of doors (say 100+) almost certainly have private money or equity partners. Which makes sense because by cooperating with other people you have way more leverage to accomplish more through increased knowledge, capital, systems, and network.
1 Reply
Sanat Bhandari
Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2021 · 244 posts · 163 votes
3y
To @Scott E.'s point, leverage is great and all but most gurus would never ask you to pay the loans down while true wealth is built by paying down debts on the collateralized assets + appreciation over time

Owning your assets free and clear is what will get you out of the rat race to a bajillion doors. That is the exact reason why I pay ~$100/mo from personal cash flows to pay down the principal faster

One of my banker buddies made this remark the other day, a ship with lots of gold will eventually either sink or be robbed
0 Reply
Travis BohlingBusiness Member
Property Manager · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2011 · 65 posts · 78 votes
3y
Property managers like to brag about doors under management as well. They often get quiet if you ask about profit/door.
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1 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
My primary residence alone has 25 doors in it.
2 Reply
Steve K.
Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
3y
I've got:

1 Dutch Door (which I count as 2 because the top and bottom operate independently)

1 French Door (which I also count as 2 because it's a double-door)

1 Saloon Door (which obviously counts as 2)

1 Barn Door (which is always open but still counts)

1 Revolving Door (this is going nowhere fast)

1 Sliding Door (which counts as 1-4 depending on your income)

1 Pocket Door (Not sure how I should count it, I can't get a handle on it)

and 1 Door that isn't a door when it's ajar.

3 Reply
Mike Dymski
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
3y
Those are marketing posts / advertisements...the forums are slam full of them right now.
1 Reply
John M.
Investor · Fairfax, VA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 801 votes
3y
I think the # of doors matter when you're underwriting the deal because you have to figure out if I make x improvements how will that impact my bottom line on each unit. A $300 increase in improvements/rent for each door x 100 doors is an extra $30K in your pocket each month.
0 Reply
Maksu Ize
Investor · Vancouver · Member since 2021 · 165 posts · 137 votes
3y
Never thought about the question OP asked.
It's funny because it makes me feel instantly better, that my doors are "mine" and not shared with 1-100 other people.
The bank has the final laugh although.
Reading future posts on this forum, with people boasting how they bought 20 units last month will be taken with a heavy dose of salt.
0 Reply
Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

When someone buys into a syndication of an apartment building with 100 doors for $1,000 they willl say they own 100 doors. It's like buying stock.

Don't worry about people who need an ego boost who are making false claims. I define "false" as information intentionally intended to deceive, kind of like the goverment and unemployment. ;-)

based the syndication model I have more doors than i can count LOL.. means nothing.

Hi Jay, this is related to other post (I don't remember which one) but related to this post.

So this guy is only having one house, but :

Today
Jan 18, 2023

Date
Listed (Active)
MLSListings #ML81916549

$2,098,000
Price

May 1972, Sold for $28,000
May 1, 1972

Date

Sold (Public Records)
Public Records

Price $28,000

So in half century, the return on investment is 75 times LOL.
Compare to someone that invest in S&P500 in 1972, the return is only 5 times the original investment.

In practice they likely did far better than the 75X return. They likely financed the property at purchase. If they owner occupied it at 90% LTV, the return would be 750x. If they refinanced is and extracted out their initial investment the return would increase further.
BTW the house my parents purchased in 1969 for $19.5K is worth ~$1m. Not quite as impressive as the property you referenced, but it does show what sort of return can be achieved via appreciation.
1 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.

When someone buys into a syndication of an apartment building with 100 doors for $1,000 they willl say they own 100 doors. It's like buying stock.

Don't worry about people who need an ego boost who are making false claims. I define "false" as information intentionally intended to deceive, kind of like the goverment and unemployment. ;-)

based the syndication model I have more doors than i can count LOL.. means nothing.

Hi Jay, this is related to other post (I don't remember which one) but related to this post.

So this guy is only having one house, but :

Today
Jan 18, 2023

Date
Listed (Active)
MLSListings #ML81916549

$2,098,000
Price

May 1972, Sold for $28,000
May 1, 1972

Date

Sold (Public Records)
Public Records

Price $28,000

So in half century, the return on investment is 75 times LOL.
Compare to someone that invest in S&P500 in 1972, the return is only 5 times the original investment.

In practice they likely did far better than the 75X return. They likely financed the property at purchase. If they owner occupied it at 90% LTV, the return would be 750x. If they refinanced is and extracted out their initial investment the return would increase further.
BTW the house my parents purchased in 1969 for $19.5K is worth ~$1m. Not quite as impressive as the property you referenced, but it does show what sort of return can be achieved via appreciation.

yeah, that particular zip code appreciation is amazing......btw 20k to 1m is normal nowadays I guess..
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Paul De Luca:

Unless you have a lot of capital on your own, most people with a lot of doors (say 100+) almost certainly have private money or equity partners. Which makes sense because by cooperating with other people you have way more leverage to accomplish more through increased knowledge, capital, systems, and network.

This is actually similar to Realtor bragging about their number too, something like this, oh my realtor had 20 million transactions last year hahaha
but then when you examine the time, that team has 100 members and only sells 20 houses with each priced as 100k.
why can't folks just become humble hahaha we know some realtors only had 3 transactions under your name for given year and you don't even met your cap so your comms is still 50%
sometimes, it's the contractor and handyman that made the most money and they never bragged their number.
0 Reply
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y
Quote from @James Sloan:

Out of curiosity, when investors says "I have X doors", are they including those they are in partnership with?

I have heard many say things like "I have purchased 15 properties this month", but I am never sure if he means they he did, or "they" did.

If the sole owner of said properties, that would be quite impressive.
The Doors haven’t mattered since Jim Morrison died.
Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
Website View Page
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