Man charged with breaking into foreclosed home he bought

Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I had to read this two or three times to see if the arrested man's claim "Everything that occurred with this house was lawful" was really the case. In my opinion, the above statement is not correct, given just the facts as presented in the story.

The follow on questions for the BP community is 'What would you do if you were in exactly the same position as this guy?' and 'What would you do differently?' I'll save my commentary for later.

I'd also be curious to know how many BPers have been in the same (or similar) position WRT legal authorities.

Story credit (name removed): http://www.wral.com/man-charged-with-breaking-into-foreclosed-wake-forest-home-he-bought/13729867/

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Joel OwensBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

12y

"When officers arrived, an irritated X ordered them to leave his property and refused to hand over his identification or his copy of the deed to prove his ownership of the house."

That says it all.

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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12y
"When officers arrived, an irritated X ordered them to leave his property and refused to hand over his identification or his copy of the deed to prove his ownership of the house."

That says it all.
Podcast Guest on Show #47
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Website View Page
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Chris M.
FL · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 2 votes
12y
yeah he certaintly was not doing himself any favors by not identifying himself properly.
0 Reply
Michael Jobe
Real Estate Broker · Triangle Area, NC · Member since 2012 · 587 posts · 214 votes
12y
What would you do if you were in exactly the same position as this guy?
I would have kept calm and placed my hands where they could see them while politely explaining my situation to the officers. I would have simultaneously presented them my photo ID as well as the deed. If they told me I had to leave then I'd have gotten into my car, fastened my seat belt, and pulled off like grandma leaving the grocery store; nice & slow! I would have then contacted the appropriate person(s) to be able to gain access to my property without the police being called.
'What would you do differently?
I would have tried to contact the person whom had possession of the place before me to see about obtaining door keys, garage openers, etc. rather than showing up with my power tools trying to drill through the front door. If that didn't work, then I would have made sure there was no disputing that I was the rightful owner of the house and called up the locksmith.
The irony of this story is that my girlfriend & I are actually under contract to purchase a foreclosure in Durham with closing set for the end of next month. Thankfully you posted this story Chris so now I know what NOT to do! Being irritable and unruly with the police usually results in a pair of shiny silver bracelets and a free ride to the station...you're going to jail!
8 Reply
Sylvia B.
Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
From the link:
"The Heritage Wake Forest Homeowners Association foreclosed on the home when the previous owners failed to keep up with their monthly HOA dues and auctioned the home to settle its lien.
[...]
A foreclosure attorney not involved with the home said Earquhart might not be able to keep the home, noting the bank that holds the previous owner's mortgage could foreclose on the property if it can't reach an agreement with Earquhart on assuming the mortgage."
Sounds to me like he didn't do his due diligence. If there is a mortgage on the property, then he doesn't have clear title and his $3800 didn't actually purchase the property. His beef with the police may be the least of his worries.
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Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
Changing the subject slightly, but what about these guys that go and do trash-outs and lock changes on REOs? I mean, once the bank gets a house back, they have to send someone out to the place to change the locks. That usually involves beating the hell out of the lock on the front door to gain entry. Why doesn't anyone ever call the law on these guys?
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Account Closed
CA · Member since 2011 · 762 posts · 182 votes
12y
I agree with Joel that his refusal to show ID and the deed says it all.
Interesting that the police felt qualified to determine occupancy rights from the register of deeds. Maybe in addition to being qualified as police they were also qualified to practice law.
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Chris Martin
OP
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Sylvia B.:
From the link:

...Sounds to me like he didn't do his due diligence. If there is a mortgage on the property, then he doesn't have clear title and his $3800 didn't actually purchase the property. His beef with the police may be the least of his worries.

Indeed. The deed of trust recorded in the county records has an original amount of $297,987. And by assignment (not recorded as a typical substitute trustee document (S-TR)) this deed of trust has been assigned to a new trustee as of 3/11/14, recorded 4/21/14. I'm not familiar with this trustee (JM). Reference for those keeping score at home...: BP 15635-158. If I have time, I'll pull the SP file next time I'm at the courthouse.
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Matt Laird
Real Estate Investor · Elk City, OK · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 27 votes
12y
This guy sounds like an Idiot to me.. I would give it to the police, they were attempting to do their jobs. If someone was breaking into one of my houses I would appreciate the police arresting them on the spot. If I were to refuse to identify myself I'd expect to receive the same treatment..
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Chris Martin
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Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I agree with Joel that his refusal to show ID and the deed says it all.

Interesting that the police felt qualified to determine occupancy rights from the register of deeds. Maybe in addition to being qualified as police they were also qualified to practice law.

!!

They are qualified to enforce law. Public record is the standard when determining real property ownership. From a legal perspective, the police did exactly what is required. (Hint: his ownership rights were not recorded.)
1 Reply
Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Would this have even happened if the person drilling out the locks had been a white man or an attractive white female?
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John H.
Massachusetts, MA · Member since 2009 · 144 posts · 31 votes
12y
I looked at their deeds site, but I couldn't find a mortgage. That's quite a score if its his for only 3800, can anyone else find a mortgage?

I also couldn't find his deed, but zillow seems to be able to, maybe I'm using the deeds site wrong.
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Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

I agree with Joel that his refusal to show ID and the deed says it all.
Interesting that the police felt qualified to determine occupancy rights from the register of deeds. Maybe in addition to being qualified as police they were also qualified to practice law.
This got my attention too. No CA police dept. I know of has any ability or knowledge about deeded ownership. And they have the good sense to know what they don't know. Someone could have deed that's been delivered but not recorded. Someone could have a lease. Someone could be a lender with rights in the mortgage doc to secure the property. None of that is reflected in the last recorded deed or tax collector ownership records.
The police here always say it's a civil matter, because it is.
2 Reply
Chris Martin
OP
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @John H.:
I looked at their deeds site, but I couldn't find a mortgage. That's quite a score if its his for only 3800, can anyone else find a mortgage?

I also couldn't find his deed, but zillow seems to be able to, maybe I'm using the deeds site wrong.

Please see my post at 4:28PM. It's at Book and Page 15635-158 in the county recorders office. (another hint: I think this dude is clueless.) This property is mortgaged to the gills. Unconsciously incompetent. More to follow as another of my company managers apparently has info on this case.
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Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Bryan L.:

Changing the subject slightly, but what about these guys that go and do trash-outs and lock changes on REOs? I mean, once the bank gets a house back, they have to send someone out to the place to change the locks. That usually involves beating the hell out of the lock on the front door to gain entry. Why doesn't anyone ever call the law on these guys?
The lock guys I use are two partners that look like ZZ Top meets Duck Dynasty. I'm sure it helps that their van says locksmith on it, but they both carry guns.
1 Reply
Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
@Account Closed
- What do you get when you cross ZZ top and Duck Dynasty? And throw in some guns? I don't know, but they sound like my kind of guys.
2 Reply
Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
I can't remember the exact details, but on one of the REOs that I bought last year, I had to climb in through a back window at one point to gain access. Just act like you are supposed to be doing that. Don't be looking around to see if anyone is watching. Just go ahead and do it. A lot of times in life, if you act like you are supposed to be there, or you act like you know what you are doing, no one will question you.
5 Reply
Rob K.
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
I've had the police called on me two different times when going into vacant houses. Sometimes neighbors keep an eye on a house and call the police when they see somone go inside. You just need to explain why you are there and present your I.D. No big deal. This guy should be happy that he's buying in an area where people watch out for "his" house.

In this case, the police wopuld have no way of knowing who he is or if he owns the house. He should have presented I.D. The 911 operator probably asked the caller a bunch of questions. One of them being, "Have you ever seen this guy before?"

For him to sue the police separtment is ridiculous. They should bill him for their time.
3 Reply
Chris Martin
OP
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
It ultimately, if you are like the guy in the article, comes down to a legal statutory codification or to applicable state case law. This guy did 100% not what I would do... I should say have done.

Another hint, @Michael Jobe had a very good response. If you are in this position and the law shows up, keep in mind they are there "to protect and serve". They are human, yes but don't bean A^& H&^@ and they will reciprocate.

More to follow...
0 Reply
Chris Martin
OP
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:
Would this have even happened if the person drilling out the locks had been a white man or an attractive white female?

ABC bike experiment

Short answer is 'yes'. And I an not 'an attractive white female';) I am a white man, and yes, I did not behave like the guy in question. I was glad they inquired. I told them that. I had a copy of the deed in my van and I told them that as well, and offered to get it. Interesting, they didn't inquire further. Nice guys.., Raleigh PD... , and that was that.
2 Reply
Daniel I.
Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 180 posts · 72 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:

Would this have even happened if the person drilling out the locks had been a white man or an attractive white female?
ABC bike experiment
I feel like the subject in this article probably felt he was profiled, but he did not do anything to help his cause. I believe the act itself is suspicious enough to warrant a call to the police regardless of appearance. Neighbors generally know who lives next door to them.
0 Reply
Tom Dupree
Investor · Apex, NC · Member since 2013 · 22 posts · 4 votes
12y
I saw this story when it was originally aired on the news. The story definitely appeared to be one sided and lacked much research.

@Chris Martin has already done 10 times the research than was done for the original story.
1 Reply
Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
12y
Yep, the guy is a self defeating idiot, and the police did Exactly what they should have done, with the lack of info from the said idiot. As to being an idiot for buying a HOA foreclosure that's over mortgaged....not necessarily, as depending on how long the total foreclosure process takes, he can collect $10-$20k in rent before it's done. Popular strategy here, even though I believe they're bidding too much, generally.
1 Reply
Stephen S.
Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
12y
That man is a fool - with an apparent chip on his shoulder. I think he got exactly what he deserved. The police were working in and for his best interests. Someone was breaking into His property - and they were there to protect His property from damage and trespass.

"There was no law stating that I had to do that (show ID)"

True enough sir - but in a civilized society gracious behavior should be a standard operating procedure. And doing otherwise often invites unwelcome reciprocity.

And yes; that exact same thing has happened to me. But in my cases I grinned at the officers, introduced myself, shook their hands, thanked them for getting out so quickly, and asked them to keep up the good work - saying how much I appreciated them keeping an eye on my house. I produced my ID and the HUD-1 sheet from the settlement to prove who I was and why I was working on my house. They apologized and I declined it: thanking them again and saying that I really did appreciate them doing their jobs so well.

I don't want to go head-to-head in a fight I can't win. And with the police - you are not going to win that kind of fight. The man in this article is a arrogant fool for thinking otherwise.

The police like me. Building inspectors like me. Licensing people like me. Building permit people like me. I get along smooth with everybody who isn't trying to hit me, steal from me, and with those I cannot beat in a fair fight. And I like it that way.

stephen
-----------

Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

I had to read this two or three times to see if the arrested man's claim "Everything that occurred with this house was lawful" was really the case. In my opinion, the above statement is not correct, given just the facts as presented in the story.
The follow on questions for the BP community is 'What would you do if you were in exactly the same position as this guy?' and 'What would you do differently?' I'll save my commentary for later.
I'd also be curious to know how many BPers have been in the same (or similar) position WRT legal authorities.

Story credit (name removed): http://www.wral.com/man-charged-with-breaking-into-foreclosed-wake-forest-home-he-bought/13729867/
"A Raleigh man said he plans to sue the Wake Forest Police Department after officers arrested him last month and charged him with trying to break into a house he had just purchased.
X received the deed to 928 Coral Bell Drive on May 16 after buying the home at a foreclosure auction and immediately went to the home and started drilling out the lock on the front door to get inside.
"You see someone trying to break into the house, and one of our neighbors called police," neighbor E.J. Stern said.
When officers arrived, an irritated X ordered them to leave his property and refused to hand over his identification or his copy of the deed to prove his ownership of the house.
"Mr. X said he was the owner of the property, but when we checked on the register of deeds (website), it did not indicate that he was the rightful owner," said Bill Crabtree, Wake Forest police spokesman. "At that point, with Mr. X's continued refusal to cooperate, they had no choice but to arrest him."
In addition to breaking and entering, he was charged with possession of burglary tools, injury to personal property and resisting a public officer.
..."
2 Reply
Stephen S.
Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
12y
You do understand that "profiling" is the very essence of good solid police work, right? <g>

stephen
------------

Originally posted by @Daniel I.:

Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:
Would this have even happened if the person drilling out the locks had been a white man or an attractive white female?
ABC bike experiment
I feel like the subject in this article probably felt he was profiled, but he did not do anything to help his cause. I believe the act itself is suspicious enough to warrant a call to the police regardless of appearance. Neighbors generally know who lives next door to them.
1 Reply
Robert Davidson
Corte Madera, CA · Member since 2011 · 59 posts · 38 votes
12y
First, in California there is a law that people are required to carry identification. Failure to show it to police officials is grounds to be arrested. Think what would happen if you are pulled over for speeding and refuse to show the officer your ID. It wouldn't be pretty.

As to looking like breaking and entering, if a house has been vacated, even if not in foreclosure, a lender has the legal right to break the lock, enter, change the locks, and secure the house to prevent damage and vandalism. Including winterizing to prevent water damage. Thus, protecting their interest.
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