Are Realtors days numbered?

Are Realtors days numbered?

Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 170 votes

I saw an interesting interview on CNBC today of Colony Capital CEO Tom Barrack whose firm has $34 billion under management. He spoke about the many changes in housing but touched on a real interesting point. He compared realtors fee`s to brokerage fees and said its days are numbered. He states that these fee's are the last of this type of fee left in the market place. I have to agree. I think its only a matter of time before this goes away. As a stock trader it would have been unheard of and impossible to have traded without a broker. Now you still have brokers but they are for a select few that need some hand holding or large portfolios. I can certainly see this evolving the same way with Zillow and Auction.com. I know the brokers went away kicking and screaming as all those good paying jobs went away. I would expect the same reaction here but times do change. Some may pop up oh we will need them to open the door and show the homes and all the other things a realtor does but again the same was said of brokers. I for one would like that 6% in my wallet. Some may feel different.

Here is the link to the video if you care to view it. 

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000311073

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Residential Real Estate Agent · Tierra Verde, FL · Member since 2013 · 276 posts · 130 votes
12y

Most Realtors do just 4-5 transactions per year and make about $20k. Many, including me, practice real estate in their spare time. My goal is to do 4-5 transaction per month. My goal is to provide a level of service that makes my clients feel comfortable, proud and grateful for choosing to use me as their Realtor. I think that goals separate the 4-5/year, just get by crowd from those that choose excellence. 

Many of my investor friends deride Realtors, sometimes even in good humor. The fact of the matter remains that 9 out of 10 houses are sold using Realtors. I don't see this changing any time soon. A good agent is more than just a robot that enters information in the MLS. A good agent can tell a tale of your home that will interest the internet viewer to want to come by and take a look. A good agent can take photos or hire a great photographer to highlight your homes best points. A good agent can steer you to deals, whether they are on the MLS or wholesale. A good agent looks out for your best interests before their own.

In a world where many folks are more and more overworked I don't see people wanting to take the time to show their home, or figure out contracts and disclosures. I don't see people relocating to new cities driving around aimlessly trying to find a good home in a good neighborhood.

As far as the fees I will just quote a friend of mine who introduced himself at a REIA meeting immediately after a $295 listing service guy, he said; "I am a Realtor and I charge 6%, because I am worth it.". If you don't value your Realtor's service, fire them.

Realtors are not essential, but neither is your car. You can buy a home without a Realtor just like you can get to work without your car but both will make the journey a whole lot easier. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    12y

    I believe there will always be a place for a good quality real estate agent. I will say that in my experience most real estate agents are not great. My standards are high and many might say that my expecations are not in line with their job duties. I expect a real estate agent to utilize the data available to determine an accurate value on a CMA. I expect and agent to answer the phone and/or return an e-mail promptly. I expect an agent to have a decent knowledge of construction and a property condition (this is the area I have found little to no satisfaction). I expect the agent to handle the paperwork flawlessly. I expect the agent to coordinate and keep all the parts to get to close on the move (coordinate with mortgage broker, title company, legal, seller/buyer, and anyone else and make sure everybody has what they need in order to get the transaction completely).

    I live in an area with a lot of older homes and this is why I expect an agent to have some grasp of repair costs or property issues. In such a market I believe it is neccessary.  I have seen so many errors and fumbling of the process by agents. Many lack experience, some can't properly manage their success and keep up with a large workload. 

    I do not use an agent but I have also not sold a property just purchased. I do see the value potential but i also feel that the costs can be excessive at times especially in an easy transaction. I would like to think that the best of the best will continue to thrive while the resr will continue to be a revolving door.As systems develop and market expectations evolve I see the need for agents will decrease but not by a ton.

  • Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 266 posts · 240 votes
    12y

    @Mark Ferguson 

    Define "many"...is that 5%, 25%, 85%?

    Your thinking is time  static. Technology is dynamic. Did I think I would be sitting here replying to a thread on an internet message board from a device that fits into the palm of my hand 10 years ago? 

    No. No, I did not.

    To suggest that technology cannot catch up with determining accurate property valuation is a bit naive I think.

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 170 votes
    12y

    @Sean Brooks 

    You wrote quote "

    "If Jay was a student of investing theory, he would realize that an invested interest is involved here."

    Sean I hope you read the original post. Its not about me or my opinion rather the person in the video and his take on the realtor as the last outpost of a brokerage type fee and how most others have changed or gone away. This is a smart guy in this and other industries and its obvious to him its certainly safe to say its on the radar of others in a position to bring about change.

    As I read thru these posts the groups that think ...."never"...that dangerous word never will realtors go away virtually all have the same argument. Its the personal touch and properties are all different.Well the exact same was said about stock brokerage. No two securites are the same and they all have a different story. A whole lot of people here are dumming down the stock process and thats a mistake. Its alot easier now because of the changes to it post broker. It takes a tremendous amount of work to vet a stock.  The next big point being hammered home is paperwork. My goodness are you kidding me. This is by far the easiest of the equation to replicate.

    In the end many profesions that used the words "never" have gone by the way side. Some big disrupters have emerged and changes the landscape forever. As I posted now most opinions are rooted in the here and now and its my opinion thats a big mistake. For example as these companies grow like Zillow they can do the basic transaction that now costs an average of 6 % for free. You may wonder how can they do it for free.  How does Twitter and Facebook and many others make billions yet offer no product ?They make it on advertising within their websites.

    The landscape does change. Online stock brokerage now has at least 90% of the market. I can see a similar thing in real estate but maybe the penetration is only 35-50% but believe me many will opt for the do it yourself route like stocks. Its not here yet but in my opinion its very clear its coming.

    After witnessing what happened in the 2008 recession my eyes are wide open to change. No need to fear it cause when one door closes more usually open. Some really great posts on this thread.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mark Creason:
    @Bill Gulley:

    Bill,

    I am in the process of changing my home owners insurance policy.  While talking to an All State agent, they mentioned that I have a swimming pool with my house.  Now I wish we had a pool, and I will probably add one at some point, but currently I do not have one.  The agent informed me they received the information from Zillow.  Zillow, Redfin, and Trulia are all good generic sites, but any seller would values his or her house based on a Zillow estimate is going to be giving away value.

    Mark

    Mark, just to clear this up a bit, your agent either doesn't know what he's talking about or just shooting the breeze, insurance has nothing to do with the market value of a home, the policy is based on the replacement cost, a square footage and quality standard of the improvements and amenities. No policy pays what you could sell the house for in the event of a loss. Labor and material costs in geographic areas as well as other relate construction costs are compiled nationally much like the blue book for vehicles, that is what they look to.

    These valuation sites are too far off to make any buying or selling decision on, plus or minus, valuations go both ways.

    I was going to mention too, that Warren Buffett seems to think the real estate brokerage business is in good shape and will be around, since he bought the largest brokerage.

    While someday as the population of RE clients becomes more adapt to technology it's use and applications will increase and become more acceptable. However, doing a walk through isn't just a virtual pictorial matter, as your drone flies through a room it's going to have to inspect floors, walls, ceilings, trim work, windows and doors, I don't see such detail. The drone is not going to sense a slopping floor or a weak joist. I doubt it can hear the bearings wearing out in a fan motor of the HVAC or smell carpet. I don't see people accepting a virtual world for reality and make a buy decision, at least for mommy and daddy.

    As to brokerage operations, I don't like the set up, the hype sold to new agents, the acceptance of anyone who can fog a mirror and pass a simple test that is spoon fed with a pool of test questions. The continuing education is a joke and structured as another business supported by legal requirements. There are many down sides as to how the MLS is a franchised operation with the Board of Realtors, it's driven as a monopoly with political clout. The system is a fine tuned machine however and it does function very well controlling its turf.

    Under that system, you have two agents involved supported by legal requirements or one agent without representation to one of the parties. 6% is pretty standardized since we have two commissions to pay. I've been around long enough to know that a transaction involving a $70K sale can be more complicated and a bigger time consuming pain the a $500K transaction, so the thinking of a commission based on a sale price doesn't really relate to the time, effort, knowledge or administration that an agent must employ. Brokers will tell agents that is all averages out, well, it doesn't and won't unless that agent has other skills to land $500K sales.

    I think what will become more popular will be the team approach by agents and broker-agents. A broker-agent under a broker/brokerage sets up their own company and hires agents into that company. When the broker-agent is successful they have a support team, new agents (or even older types) are fed deals through that sub-agency and at that point, those commissions can average out even though the agent's commission may be less, they are busier than if they were on their own.

    We aren't even touching the commercial side, commissions are generally 10% but larger transactions are certainly negotiable and they are negotiated.

    Real estate consultants surfaced in the late 70s, in fact it was questioned that such a consultant was required to have a license, today there are consultants who are not licensees or Realtors dealing in commercial properties. Wal-Mart may employ a consultant and negotiate a deal together with an attorney, many attorneys are consultants are of course an attorney is usually exempt from license requirements.

    I did consultation for about 7 years, it was an occasional thing and mostly in small commercial areas, while it was very profitable getting involved in various business ventures, the consultation was a time killer, at that time it was $120 an hour. Some attorneys were charging $90 an hour, but funny how their total billing was often more than mine (LOL). Guess I worked too quickly. And, going a consultation route means you have to adjust billing rates to the scope of work, some business sale that was running at $40K couldn't afford $125 an hour, if you want the work you need to be flexible and reasonable, then it gets to a point where you just can't do small deals as you're losing money.

    A flat fee approach is a good one I think, costs can be known and average the typical commission and you can devise a fee that is a better deal for owners of more expensive properties. And, while you can have deal in higher brackets that can be a pain, different types of pains, often they are easier and quicker than the scrub properties.

    I think most here agree, Realtors aren't going anywhere, technology will not replace them in this century. There will be stiff resistance to changing the system as big bucks are involved.

    So, to the future.... I advocate a Realtor type education to all dealing in RE regardless of what they think they know as an old dealer or a newbie, I only advise selling or listing as an agent in two instances, where you can save money on commissions in your business or if you know tons of people, if you can call 100 people on the phone and talk to them, then becoming a Realtor is a good option. If you know less than 100 people, it's not impossible but you'll need to work harder to overcome that advantage. That also includes being well known, if you were the quarterback at your local college or the basketball star in high school, people think they know you. 40 years ago, thousands in Springfield knew my name,  as time goes by you lose that notoriety quickly. Point is, Realtors will be around for a long time and the outlook for newbies can be good. :) 

  • Real Estate Lender and Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 966 posts · 500 votes
    12y
  • Homeowner · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 854 posts · 511 votes
    12y

    @Mark Creason 

    I am not an insurance agent or an expert on the topic, but my understanding of my policy matches what @Bill Gulley was saying.  My policy is based on what it would cost to rebuild the property from the ground up.  What you paid for the house and what it could sell for is not part of their formula. 

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Shop around! Yes all adjust premiums to risk assumed. They may look at descriptions and google pics in underwriting, but MV is not a factor. They all claim replacement is greater than reality, IMO.

    You might get a stated amount,  watch out for the 80% co-insurance clause.

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2013 · 225 posts · 91 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mark Ferguson:

    Please tell me how a computer can determine the value of a home when it does not know the condition of the subject or the comps?  

    What makes you say "a computer" doesn't know the comps? How do you think realtors do CMAs?

    Comps are easily and 100% quantifiable. You really think Zillow cannot know what homes have sold for how much in the past X months within .X miles and what the square footage of those homes was? What do you think the ZEstimate is anyway?

    The better points about Zillow's inaccuracies are the less quantifiable and less obvious additions/subtractions of value:  view, condition etc.

    As for inaccuacies from Zillow.. this is sometimes an issue of garbage in, garbage out. And realtors pull from the same garbage for their MLS listing. Square footage is a prime example (eg non-permitted addition or county screw up on a permitted one).

    If not, then why do realtors always put in their disclosure that figures are to the best of the realtor's knowledge and buyer should berify everything?

    One more thought... Zillow is really bad on non-homogonous properties eg. rural property. Realtors have the same problem. I dont know how many times I have had an agent tell me, "There just aren't many comps for this property..." (Their implied conclusion is: I have little or no idea what this property is really worth.)

  • Real Estate Lender and Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 966 posts · 500 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Mark Creason 

    I am not an insurance agent or an expert on the topic, but my understanding of my policy matches what @Bill Gulley was saying.  My policy is based on what it would cost to rebuild the property from the ground up.  What you paid for the house and what it could sell for is not part of their formula. 

    David,

    I could buy an exact model match of my home across the street from where I live for 75000 less than the insurance company wants to insure it.  That house is brand new, so a builder can build in this location with land costs, school fees, water tap fees, etc and still make a profit for significantly less than the insurance company adjustment.  You and Bill should also take into consideration that the insurance should not be covering the value of the land which in this location is worth 100,000.  If the house was destroyed and needed to be re-built, the cost would be less than the original build, as the water, sewer, and school fees have been paid.

    Mark

  • Henderson, NV · Member since 2014 · 111 posts · 163 votes
    12y

    I'm a relative newbie to RE investing but I did work briefly for Realtor.com many years ago and remember the contentious nature of the relationship between tech and agents.  That was over 10 years ago and . . . agents are still around and access to data for the public has increased dramatically.    

    I think in this BP circle of people, there are going to be many opinions that are on the fringe.  Someone buying 20 homes a year sees the value of an agent differently than someone who buys a home every 20 years.  And a large percentage of people who are buying and selling homes fall into the later group.    

    Maybe there's room for different levels of service and thus different fees.  For instance, like they do in the stock brokerage industry.  You have discount brokers who supply reduced fees and let investors manage their own portfolio and there are full service brokers who can create and manage a portfolio, do tax planning, and estate planning but charge considerably more.  

    The vast, vast majority of people do not want to learn about real estate.  They just want to buy a place to live.  They want someone to hold their hand and tell them which documents need signed and how to get a loan.  But there should also be an alternative for people who may know as much or more than the agent and simply need the purchase executed.  

    Different strokes for different folks.  

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    The only thing insurance covers as to land is the liability, I've never seen a lot destroyed by fire or land blow away in a tornado. 10% of the home value may be set aside for trees, shrubs and seeding destroyed but the land nor it's value is part of a homeowner's policy. Let's get back on topic. :)

  • Lender · Nat'l Commercial Mtg Lender - Round Rock, TX · Member since 2014 · 916 posts · 235 votes
    12y

    @Jay C.

    I agree with @ Mark Furguson,  a realtor protects the buyer and the seller.  To enter a contract without an a realtor ( or an attorney) could end up costing you way more than you could ever imagine.  

    Also there is a difference between a residential realtor and a commercial realtor.  If you ever buy commercial real estate, my recommendation would be to get a commercial realtor. Commercial properties, contract and negotiation are much more complex.  

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    I think it's great for Realtors that Realtors populate the MLS with sales data. Realtor sales. But probably not FSBO. Probably not Trustee sales. Maybe they are better about it now. But I once (years ago) had a Realtor tell me all about the property my company bought, as well as "comparables". I told her the data in her CMA was not totally correct (way too high), and she got very defensive. After all, she said, the data was from MLS and is 100% correct (her words). I said (paraphrased) 'But you aren't considering the foreclosures and a (distressed) FSBO. The foreclosures add future overhead supply to this market and the weak FSBO doesn't help.' She insisted they didn't exist. Further, she said something like 'I don't see any foreclosures in the neighborhood.' I gave her the Special Proceeding (SP) numbers, amounts, and sales dates. She was clueless. 'There are no bank properties for sale.' I said, 'I know. They are foreclosures. You know, courthouse sales... they will be REOs in a few months.' But she didn't know. She thought I was unconsciously incompetent in the same way I saw her as unconsciously incompetent.

    On my PC, I have 355,466 real estate records for my county. About 50 or so relevant fields for each property. All the data was free and from public record. With simple Linux shell commands I can 'see' all the data in about any way I want. Why don't RE agents/brokers/Realtors do what I do? Why doesn't MLS? Zillow and Trulia use the data. MLS... not so much.

    Case in point: My last purchase was on July 3, 2014. Zillow says "Sold: 07/03/14" Realtor.com says: "Sold for $64,000 on Nov 14, 2013." Zillow: "Zestimate®: $105,198" Realtor.com (under Homes Near XX DR.) ".. Willowdale Ct Recently Sold $725,000" Realtor.com at top of listing: "Baths 2 Full Bath" Public record: "Baths 1.5 Bath"

    Realtor.com data is not accurate. Neither is Zillow. That's just fact. My point is Realtor should integrate and merge data and get out of their realtor-only box... or they will quickly be in the Z/TRLA dust. My 2 cents.

  • Real Estate Investor · Brunswick, GA · Member since 2013 · 22 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    Im having a tough time finding a Realtor to work with in the busy Jacksonville Fla area Theyre not returning phone calls, not wanting to come across town to show me a listing of theirs (I was told to call a agent in the area, but they couldnt recommend one), saying its UC when its showing up as available and "refreshed within 15 minutes" on Realtor.com (which I know isnt THE most accurate, but better than Z or T I think), producing piss poor listings with virtually no info or pics of the house but a bunch of blah, blah blah disclaimers that have nothing to do with the actual home. How is it fair to the seller to not put as many pics and info as possible to help sell thier home? Also, as a listing agent I would think that I wouldnt like a bunch of phone calls &  questions asking the same questions over and over! When I sell on Craigslist or Ebay, I am very descriptive of the stuff I sell, and take a lot of pics so my phone doesnt interrupt my life needlessly!  By the time someone calls back (if they call back) the house is UC or I have to start all over the next day. I know being a Realtor can be a busy, hectic 24 hr 7 day a week job with a lot of tire kickers and deals that fall thru...or never get off the ground but something HAS to change! I call a realtor about some listings Im interested in, and might hear back in a couple days...thats a couple days Ive wasted, and the houses are gone and I have to start over. I keep being put off about back up contracts as well! Maybe there could be a card reader system implemented where the potential buyer signs up and is issued a card, and then theres a "honor system or ebay feedback system maybe on a smart phone that you report how the property looked, and if anything was missing. Everything else can be done online, probably with better representation and cheaper! Then the "listing" agent can be on call to answer questions and concerns of "their" listing! I can understand maybe needing a person to show a house if its occupied, but waiting around for someone to answer my call or questions, or schedule me to see a home is wasting MY time, and costing ME money! This has been very frustrating for me, as Im a investor whos trying to get into the market after a 7 year break. Any suggestions out there? Is there a experienced investor friendly realtor who is available in the Jacksonville Fla area?  

  • Involved In Real Estate · San Leandro, CA · Member since 2014 · 1 post · 0 votes
    12y

    I do not see any reason for the real estate agents to panic whenever a bright idea like this  one is floated around that their days are numbered because either the proposal is result of disenchantment with the supposed "high commission" that real estate agents charge or the proposal is just floated around as a wishful thinking.

    The real estate business, even if we focus on the limited act of buying and selling a single family home, is really a complex process from listing the home or searching for the desired home up to the time of closing the escrow. Ingrained in such complex process are the accepted practices of the business, the ethical considerations,  the local regulations, and State rules and laws which cannot be just understood by a person who has not undergone the same course study that every realtor is expected to learn and thereafter pass the state exam as required - at least in California. Additionally,  there is the element of negotiation with the opposite party which is something to be learned. A realtor has the specialized knowledge on the appreciation and understanding of the whole gamut of inspections, disclosures, and other reports generated during the process and such cannot be said for those who do not play the same role.

    Without any intention of belittling a seller, buyer or investor who is inclined to do the transaction on his or her own, I believe that the sale or investing process is fraught with technical and legal difficulties that could be avoided by the engagement of a knowledgeable real estate agents who will be a shining light on the whole process.  

  • Investor · Bartlesville, OK · Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 4 votes
    12y

    This has been a really interesting discussion.  I only have a few transactions under my belt but I've relied on my Realtor heavily.  This is coming from a buyers perspective so maybe the commissions don't come into play as much.  I just moved to a new state and wanted a personal home and rental properties quickly.  Using my Realtor's expertise, who had lived in the town most of his life, allowed me the time to plan renovations, look at schools and everything else.  So I think there are certainly situations where a Realtor can really help.

  • San Antonio, TX · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Definitely a very generalized statement where some (not all) will follow. Though, it's hard to say a whole industry built on service will go away when the majority of America is now turning towards a service oriented economy. 

    Will there be some "do-it-yourself" types? Sure, there will. Though, most of the successful folks out there get where they are because of a team - not a computer. The computer and the web are merely tools to help make our lives easier and more efficient. Though, it is not a replacement for people. 

    We still have to make the tough decisions. And, making these decisions are much easier when we have a panel of experts and advisors who are on our side. 

    Interesting topic for discussion. Just my thoughts! :) 

  • Bear, DE · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 65 votes
    12y

    @Jay

    Read my new forum I break down what Zillow and Trulia is from a Realtors view. Things that most don't do because they do not read, they only look at the pretty commercial.

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/148...

    Now I also get what your saying happen to your profession but it was the environment that caused the demise. The melt down in 2008 was caused by the stock market, see the stock brokers/firms found a way to introduce junk in the market what was called a derivative. See they bundled home loans from people that had a huge chance of defaulting with other products and sold it to people all over the world, which in the history of banking was never done. The value to the bank in the form of a loan, had a huge chance of being paid back. I knew people that didn't even have a job getting home loans. Arm's were being pushed, their design best for investors doing flips. See because the property was re-done before the loan would reset.

    See greed of a few groups destroyed it. They wanted to make more money, receive bigger bonus from something that was truly not there but made up. The stock market is about deception, I know a few of my family were brokers. Greed is evil not the love of money!

    You could look at wholesaling the same way, your signing a contract with a consumer to purchase but turn around and sell it to another investor to purchase. I would not sign a contract with anyone unless it states your purchasing because if the other investor doesn't you have a way out.

    See when we sell a home and a person agrees to purchase it, their bonded to purchase unless the home inspect fails, death, loss of job. It has to be a real reason. You don't want to purchase, the seller has the right to sue for losses. See this is the law aspect of Real Estate created by the state government to protect people

    That do whatever to generate profits on the stock market caused changes because regular hard working people were harmed in the process or people that should have never been given a loan.

    Now CNBC used to have a show called "How I made my millions". It's not on anymore. Figure out why. TV outlets are used to have people think various ways or not.

    Now if you remove the Realtor, your creating an open system where people will cheat and swindle people like previously in history. History tells you the future!


    From history. At first, people in this new world were peddling real estate from street corners (literally!). They would pass out fliers and entice buyers or sellers with their “expertise” – a.k.a swindle people out of as much money as they could. A few legit realtors were starting to pop up at this time, and they weren’t so thrilled to have these inexperienced swindlers taking advantage of people. They decided that, once again, there was safety in numbers, so they banned together and created the National Association of Real Estate Exchange on May 12, 1908.
    Now apart of being a real estate agent you accept the code of ethics which is taught in the pre-licensing courses and then taught again more in continuing education. This is the protection for the consumer.

    Your speaking from your eyes and believe what Tom Barrack because you do not want to pay the commission. You do not have to retain the services of a Realtor. But I do know this, the one that develops a team of experts in various areas will do me deals. See business is about people, the more on your team the more gets done. One man can not do it alone.

    It will always be items people truly do not want to pay for, example I do not want to pay for the bed and bed spring separately, I do not want to pay a waiter for delivering my food - but I do and I tip 20%, I do not want to pay for delivery of an item ordered online - I had to wait for it to come when back in the day I could get it from the store on my own. I can go on.

    Also for the group this goes to the investor. How much does the MLS charge per year for access? And is it based on group pricing or an individual charge to each agent?

    A little about Tom Barrack from this article -

    http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/21/news/newsmakers/barrack/?cnn=yes

    He said it was time to sell. Based on his strategy it would have been time to sell.

    His strategy is to buy classy but neglected properties anywhere in the world where prices are low. Then, he'll pour in capital to fix them up, and resell in them in five years of so with their pedigrees fully restored.

    Auction dot com is a classic real estate auction, real estate auction have been around for a long time. Only change here is their on the Internet.

    Also look at this line from auction dot com

    "Seller pays buyer's broker/agent commission of 1% or $400, whichever is greater".

    Pull up a property notice what it says under listing. It can be a Listing Agent, Broker, Law Firm, Company, or in a rare occasion a homeowner. These sites were not designed to get rid of us but help us!

    Under the Seller section why sell with us -

    "Compressed closing schedule reduces overall transaction cost"

    The closing process is changing across the board in the industry because of the fallout from the crash.

    Analyze an auction, it's a bidding war platform. Your trying to get people to over pay for a property (asset) that might not be worth it. If you watch "Flip or Flop" on HGTV the stars of the show are Real Estate Agents and they research the neighborhood pulling accurate comps, then they go to auctions and bid - not trying to overbid.

    Now this comes from BiggerPockets own Brandon Turner

    The Real Estate Agent’s Ultimate Guide to Working with Investors

    Who is on Your Team? (This is the investor)

    It’s a good idea to know who your investor is working with on their projects. Even if they are a one-man (or woman) operation, no investor can do it all together. It’s a good idea to see how prepared your investor is with:

    • General contractors
    • Lenders
    • Property Managers
    • Attorney
    • Insurance Agent
    • Accountant
    • Escrow/Title Representative
    • and more.
  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 307 posts · 170 votes
    12y

    @Sean Brooks 

    I dont know where to begin but let me leave you with a few thoughts. Most of your opinion as most here is rooted in the "here and now". Its has been proven over and over in nearly every buisness model that can be improved. Remember that and dont be trapped in the moment, In the end the real estate buisness is very simplistic and all facets of it can be easliy duplicated. The amount of time it takes to become a realtor is further proof the barrier to entry is very low.  It will go the direction Tom pointed out one day. It will take out all the inefficiency currently in place which would be a overhaul of the title experince on down.  You and I will be powerless to stop it. You would have laffed at me about cars that can park park themselves a few years ago but now you can buy one.

     Now onto the meltdown. My gosh we could fill a dozen pages on that but let me drop a few bombs on you. You stated quote"

    The melt down in 2008 was caused by the stock market, see the stock brokers/firms found a way to introduce junk in the market what was called a derivative."

    Sean you have only part of the story. You have the blame part down but the direction is a bit off. You see for those sub prime swaps to be put in place they needed the product. The stock market may have been the drug dealer but they needed the drug.  That drug was the bad loans from the banks. So BOOM right there I have seperated your stock market blame from the reality of your story. Now lets go deeper. You had investors. Investors the likes of what you see all to common here on Bigger Pockets and the show you mention Flip or Flop who are leveraged to the gills always borrowing from friends family and hard money loans. The two people on that show are a joke. These over leveraged investors share just as much of the blame as the banks do in my opinion. They never had a cushion for the downturn and took us into a recession. You see if these over leveraged folks had not gotten to deep and made their payments you have no sub prime swaps.  You see the investor was the junkie,the bank the drug dealer and the stock market was the cartel who sat back and watched the fools below implode. Scary thing is you can read pages of the same thing here on bigger pockets.

    I really appreciate your post. We see many things differently but from your post I do enjoy reading your passion and knowledge and a different point of view.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    @Schelley Stamps

    Here in Dallas, a lot of realtors don't like showing proprieties to investors because they don't like to provide a bank statement they have funds to close.


    Joe Gore

  • Investor | Syndicator | Instructor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2008 · 435 posts · 198 votes
    12y

    The internet has been a great equalizer in regards to real estate. Craigslist, FSBO, Trulia, Zillow, etc. But it still takes someone who knows how to market their property correctly. I see FSBOs all the time but they change to Realtors after 1 week because they didn't get any traffic and got scared. That's why Realtors are going away. But I do feel that the commission percentage may drop as the listing agent starts getting less money for simply listing the home. The power should be reserved for the selling agent. Cultivate buyers, not listings.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    12y

    Life is about choices and learning.

    People have a right to believe what they believe.

    I do agree that in residential the bar is very low. The churn rate is about 90% do not last the first year in the business. It's a numbers game for these brokerages. They train them up and know the majority will squeeze out one to three deals from family and friends before it dries up. The brokerage takes 50% of each commission and then the new agents flame out before the next year hits. This is why brokerages want to build up new agents and take 50% off of them.

    In commercial more of the brokers/agents are seasoned and trained properly. You still run across some where I am in amazement they are out there licensed. There is good and bad in every profession.

    This same discussion on here about the real estate sky is falling isn't  a new revelation. Go to agentsonline.net and look into the archives. This same opinions about redfox or whatever it was called and a ton of others was discussed a decade ago. Each time technology advances the  agents haven't become extinct.

    Business is never better and the opportunities are incredible. I do agree that brokers/agents that are not very good do not provide much value. The cream rises to the top in every business category. 

  • Investor · Great Falls, MT · Member since 2014 · 163 posts · 132 votes
    12y

    I think, as others have mentioned, there is a sliding scale here and the 80/20 rule applies. 20 percent of buyers are savvy enough to not need a RE agent. And 80 percent of agents are probably only any help to buyers who are quite unsophisticated. Like anywhere else though the cream of the crop is generally valuable to everyone.

    Most agents I've dealt with have been little help. But a solid agent is part marketing specialist, part experienced negotiator, part legal counselor, part market analyst, part appraiser, part well connected individuals with a contact list of solid contractors, bankers, investors, off-market properties, etc. An agent is unlikely to be an expert in every field but a solid agent is going to better than you in a number of them. And since real estate is very much a people business, networking is key.

    So, yes, technology is changing the industry but the internet is hardly a new sensation anymore and the earth shattering predictions haven't come to pass. The average buyer (especially younger ones these days) seem to see the size of a commission and being used to free access to unlimited info they have a knee jerk reaction against it. But it's an over-simplistic take. I see commissions coming down perhaps as people can handle more of the leg work themselves but most people simply aren't savvy buyers and will likely want to be represented in some fashion.   

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    I think once an investor mess up on paperwork, and the title company says a sign on the dotted line you are responsible for any errors when it is recorded and then if something goes wrong the investor will say where is a realtor, I need help and the title clerk will say all the investors put the realtors on a south bound greyhound.


    Joe Gore

  • Bear, DE · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 65 votes
    12y

    @Joel Owens 

    Your 100% correct. You have people that will say the sky is falling all the time.

    @Jay C. 

    I worked at another big financial institution during the time, I only provided some of the story because at the end of the day Greed took down the system and companies. A few made out big. The company I worked for took the sideline approach which positioned them well today. At the end of the day, your going to run your business your way.

    To the group read "The ultimate beginner's guide to real estate investing" written by BiggerPockets. This is the greatest forum online for Real Estate.

    If you go to chapter 4 and go to the section called "Assembling your team"

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/real-estate-investing...

    It talks about

    Teams and Systems - Clearly define your team and the systems you and they will use to delegate and automate tasks. Who will be on your team? Will you need an attorney, CPA, Etc? You don't necessarily need to know who those people are, simply what roles you will need on your team. More on this below.

    On the list he has several specialize roles.

    Realtor - An exceptional real estate agent is fundamental in your investing career. You or your spouse may even choose to become a real estate agent yourself to gain access to the incredible tools that agents have. Either way- having an agent that is punctual, a go-getter, and eager, is important. Real estate agents are paid from the commission when a property is sold. In other words – for the buyer, an agent is FREE. They can be an excellent resource for contract real estate work which may include the following activities: birddogging, referring buyers, showing properties, open houses, broker price opinions, etc.

    I love to work with investors that understand their and my role in the process. You can't do Real Estate alone, it's a whole punch of people.

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