TINY houses... Fad or here to stay??
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
People are living in these 150 to 350 sq ft mobile houses. I think it's a lifestyle thing because mass America wouldn't live this way.
I would rather increase my income then have to live in such a small space. I like large spaces so this isn't for me but I will say it looks better than a dumpy trailer.
Here where I live you really wouldn't save anything. They have laws where you have to own 5 acres or more for a trailer etc. They do this because land would be about 150k or more for that in the suburban areas so it keeps the land from being littered with trailers everywhere.
I can see this being a trend in rural areas or the mountains.
Cost for one was said to about 35,000. For 300 sq ft it is about 117 a foot. Traveling in one of these as a rental might be interesting.
I will attach my "Tiny House" photos at the bottom.
@Joel Owens Tiny homes are fascinating to me. Over the last year I have been reading a lot about tiny houses and mini-cabins. It is becoming a very popular movement and I like the concept of minimal debt, getting rid of unnecessary stuff and a small environmental footprint. I think tiny homes work well with singles and couples but not so great with modern families for long-term housing. For about 6,000 years of recorded history, most families on earth have lived in what we now call "tiny homes" of about 300 sq. ft. or less. Now, we just have too much junk - part necessity and part fluff!
To indulge my tiny house fascination, I actually insulated and trimmed-out a 10 ft. x 12 ft. lofted garden shed to make a pretty nice, off-grid, mini-cabin to visit on weekends. I had to find just the right rural county about 90 minutes away from the Salt Lake City metro area that allows (or at least overlooks) such dwellings. We have spent many weekends out there but frankly, my kids get a little bored after a few days. For them, the simple life is fun to experience, but not permanently. They miss their friends, the wii, the trampoline and other conveniences. Also, my wife would leave me if we ever downsized so drastically! She actually created the floorplan for the cabin but her shoes alone would not all fit in the space! We do like our stuff....
Still, it's been a great family project to make our own little house and get "back to nature!" A lot of people have asked me how to make their own modified-shed tiny-house. I have seen some really cool ones on the Houzz app. They are used for guest quarters and writers' retreats (think Henry David Thoreau - Walden) and even permanent housing. Most cities have laws that allow for accessory structures of less than 200 sq. ft. but they cannot be used as a dwellings and cannot be the only structure on a parcel. Many people get around these rules by simply building the tiny house on wheels - making it a trailer.
One of these days I will write up the process I went through to make my mini-cabin. The total cost was about $4,000. The land was $15K, and it came with a stream ("Crik" as the locals say it). I've learned a lot and I may build another one soon.
Have Fun!
I think the tiny house movement is awesome. The tiny house itself is just one part of the movement, its more about the lifestyle than the tiny house itself. When you say "I would rather increase my income then have to live in such a small space." your not grasping the whole concept of the movement. Its a debt free lifestyle, that allows them to enjoy a freedom in life that very few understand.
Im not saying I could ever live in such a small place, I couldn't. Being a home builder I have seen so many young people spend ridiculous money on McMansions they don't need, and can't afford. Then came 2008.......
I don't think this movement will ever succeed on a grand scale. The majority of people are convinced its ok to have mountains of debt they can never payoff as long as they can keep up with the Jones's. But I do believe there will be niche markets that will thrive by offering places around the country for people to live in these tiny homes. There is even a tiny home hotel in Portland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7njaiLK-lw
My wife gets nervous overtime I watch tiny house videos on you tube LOL.
I think the tiny house movement is a niche that will have some staying power.
What I think COULD be a sign of shifting tastes is more and more young people buying smaller first houses or even downsizing.
My wife and I rented out our 2300sf house in a great houston suburb, and purchased a 1000sf house for twice as much closer to town and have not missed it one bit. My friends have been making similar choices as well.
In fill development in Houston has been doing great the last few years as more people elect to live in bungalows and 3 story town houses on zero lot lines close to town vs suburbs. However that doesnt mean that our suburb development is slowing down...its not. But as more young people enter the market it will be interesting to see if the numbers show smaller houses becoming more popular.
Sensible people will trend toward smaller houses as they continue to possess less "stuff." Where we once had a record/CD collection, VHS/DVD collection, library, video game consoles, and giant stereos with huge speakers, we now have a notepad, ear buds and a wire coming out of the wall. Ditto kids and their piles of unused toys.
Formal dining rooms and "bonus" spaces are so last century.
Where we once chose to test the limits of the planet's resources by (quote the pope here) "breeding like rabbits," we now limit our offspring and thus need fewer bedrooms.
Where most of us once had giant SUVs taking up space in a big garage so that we could burn expensive fuel and hours of each day commuting into downtown from the 'burbs (the only place where we could fit all of these toys), we now own bicycles, bus passes and own/share sensible small electric vehicles... Oh wait, none of this last bit has happened yet with gas prices plummeting.
For now, it's a lifestyle choice of some. In the future (think decades/generations), it may be much more common.
It's interesting to see how the size of American homes has ballooned over the last 50 years.
The house I grew up in back in the 60's was a 3BR ranch with 1100 SF. We had four, sometimes five people living there depending on who was away at school.
The house I own today is a 3BR ranch with 1100 SF. I live here alone and it feels cramped.
I will attach my "Tiny House" photos at the bottom.
@Joel Owens Tiny homes are fascinating to me. Over the last year I have been reading a lot about tiny houses and mini-cabins. It is becoming a very popular movement and I like the concept of minimal debt, getting rid of unnecessary stuff and a small environmental footprint. I think tiny homes work well with singles and couples but not so great with modern families for long-term housing. For about 6,000 years of recorded history, most families on earth have lived in what we now call "tiny homes" of about 300 sq. ft. or less. Now, we just have too much junk - part necessity and part fluff!
To indulge my tiny house fascination, I actually insulated and trimmed-out a 10 ft. x 12 ft. lofted garden shed to make a pretty nice, off-grid, mini-cabin to visit on weekends. I had to find just the right rural county about 90 minutes away from the Salt Lake City metro area that allows (or at least overlooks) such dwellings. We have spent many weekends out there but frankly, my kids get a little bored after a few days. For them, the simple life is fun to experience, but not permanently. They miss their friends, the wii, the trampoline and other conveniences. Also, my wife would leave me if we ever downsized so drastically! She actually created the floorplan for the cabin but her shoes alone would not all fit in the space! We do like our stuff....
Still, it's been a great family project to make our own little house and get "back to nature!" A lot of people have asked me how to make their own modified-shed tiny-house. I have seen some really cool ones on the Houzz app. They are used for guest quarters and writers' retreats (think Henry David Thoreau - Walden) and even permanent housing. Most cities have laws that allow for accessory structures of less than 200 sq. ft. but they cannot be used as a dwellings and cannot be the only structure on a parcel. Many people get around these rules by simply building the tiny house on wheels - making it a trailer.
One of these days I will write up the process I went through to make my mini-cabin. The total cost was about $4,000. The land was $15K, and it came with a stream ("Crik" as the locals say it). I've learned a lot and I may build another one soon.
Have Fun!
Many people in the western world would argue that the opposite is true. It is actually easier to just make more money. I agree with that but must add that simply spending less can make you more free!
My idea of a great property
Somehow "garage to house ratio" in my GF's head is some kinda inverse
I think they are here to stay for a certain sub-section of the population. Having a tiny footprint makes sense, but not to everyone, just as tattoos make sense to some people but not others.
I live in a 950 square foot house (3 bedrooms) and it's more than enough room for me. But as the other poster said above, their house is 1,100 square feet and it's too small for them. Everyone has their preferences.
On a serious note. I think they are great for summer homes in the mountains, hunting lodges, or a place behind your business to get a shower, eat and take a nap.
I just don't see living in one. Although it worked for Dick Proenneke (A diesel mechanic from Alaska)
I don't think these are going to be the preferred housing for many. However I think it is a niche that may end up having some staying power.
Where I think the tiny houses will gain a lot of market share is as second homes. They make a ton of sense for that application/especially for a seasonal home.
While manufactured housing has come a long way - I think these may be an easier sell for new affordable housing that a "trailer park". I also think these could be popular additions to lots with an existing SFH - both for "boomerang children" and an aging parent.
I think currently the biggest hurdle is the zoning restrictions - in areas where they get loosened up, I think they will be relatively popular.
Has anyone ever thought about picking up old shotguns (10-12' wide), moving them to more desirable areas, and then refurbing them? Ok, a little bigger than a tiny home, but still minimalistic, but with a proper historic edge to them.
I have another longer comment on a different Tiny House thred regarding what I am currently doing with an "in-fill" concept. However, I think one area regarding Tiny Houses that many are overlooking is the "affordable housing" component. It is one thing to have a second home or build a tiny house to create financial freedom. However, there is a huge need in virtually every community for affordable housing. The average social security payment is less than $1200 per month - and millions of baby boomers are retiring every year with little or no other income available. Young people are coming out of college with huge loan debts and not a lot of money to afford rent. I agree that you probably aren't going to put your 3 kids in a 200 square foot house - but there are tons of people that don't fit that demographic. By adding tiny houses to unused backyards and tiny lots you can create an additional source of income for the owner and an affordable housing option for someone who otherwise might have to spend 50% or more of their income on a place to live.
I don't think you can compare tiny homes to mobile homes. I say that based on the type of asset classes we are talking about here. This was discussed heavily in Podcast 111. I could see going from Tiny Home to Mobile Home to SFH.
With that said, this conversation has come up in my circle of colleagues and I always ask, how many people do you know that live in one? I don't know anyone, nor does anyone I ask.
I tend to agree that this would be ideal for seasonal or vacation homes. To me the lack of equity long term is unattractive but as was also stated, everyone has different desires and different investing strategies.
As affordable homes for those that are on the low end of the income scales, they may make sense. However; the biggest thing will be zoning ordinances allowing them for primary residences. I don't think the teeny tiny homes are going to survive as they're impractical long term, but I do think a trend of smaller homes that use less energy, take up less space, and are easier to maintain etc. will hold.
Myself, I moved from a 4400 sq. ft. house on 20 acres where I always had LOTS of people, kids, etc. in and out, to a 2/2 apartment in Orange County. I still have my house, but when I moved, I sold basically everything and downsized. I still have some of my things in storage at the house, but haven't really missed it, and probably will not be going back to get it.
I think tiny houses are fashionable, but not a fad. They are growing in popularity with the millennial generation. This is a generation that was trying to get educated and get their first professional jobs during the worst downturn in the economy since the 30s. They've grown up during a time where more and more information is becoming known about the devastating impact of humans on the planet, where scarcity of resources is a reality and conservation has been taught to them from a very early age. This is a generation that disapproves of conspicuous consumption, "prairie palaces" and the such. They are also struggling under the worst load of student loan debt ever.
This generation is delaying marriage and children at a staggering rate. They also prefer to measure their wealth in shared experiences with their friends, travel and memories than in "stuff".
Because this is an ingrained mindset, not just a trend, I think that tiny houses will be in favor for a long time to come.
It is interesting and there definitely seems to be a "buzz" around them. I agree with others that zoning restrictions would likely come into play in most areas. Where a tiny house would be most beneficial ..a high cost city like Los Angeles. I am pretty sure they aren't allowed.
Also with land values so high it would only make sense if you had a bunch of tiny houses on one lot.
If you are already in a rural area, you could possibly buy an existing house that is larger in size anyways for less than the cost to build a tiny house.
If the tiny houses in practice allow one to buy a house cash and live a low cost lifestyle , then that's great. I just think for most of the people in high cost cities it won't be practical because of zoning .
I think for many they are doing it to 'prove a point' either to themselves or others that they aren't consumers , or aren't big consumers more so than wanting to save money.
As far as frugality, I feel it is important, but one can only save so much money while the potential to earn money is practically limitless. Bill, Carlos and Warren are still earning.
Speaking of Carlos and real estate and the exact opposite of tiny houses..looks like he's trying to shatter the record in NYC for most expensive townhouse ever sold .
Carlos Slim 80 million dollar townhouse
He picked it up for $44million(chump change for him) in 2010....not too bad of a flip..and certainly NOT a tiny house.
At 20,000 sq feet I wonder what the rent would be on this thing...Maybe somebody on here could buy it and live in one room and rent out the others on AirBNB, lol. Do you think Carlos would owner finance?
Househacking Billionaire Style.
Teri S just made the invaluable point about baby boomers that I was waiting to toss into this forum. I think this market is here to stay for now. I think a lot of Americans are becoming tired of the American way of overconsumption/gross consumerism. People are catching on to the value of simplicity and I can say I'm not hating it.
Has anyone ever thought about picking up old shotguns (10-12' wide), moving them to more desirable areas, and then refurbing them? Ok, a little bigger than a tiny home, but still minimalistic, but with a proper historic edge to them.
The old shotguns have systems and construction not worth refurbishing. Horrible siding and roofs and windows The best of the crappy ones are made of 1 x 3s, so you are starting with virtually nothing, other than I-beams, a hitch and a DMV trailer designation sticker.
I worked on a resort campground project where we experimented with vintage airstreams. They were the worst. All they had going for them was their cool looking exterior shell. which was far from bullet or leak proof.
Does anyone know the zoning requirements to add a "tiny house" to the back of a property as Teri mentioned? Is that even possible? I'm hearing conflicting zoning rules in this forum. I know every area has its own but just wondering if there's a general rule. If it was that easy it would be a great option for some people who want to create that "mother in law suite" concept with more simplicity.
I think you are on the right path. I see fixed income baby boomers using this as a viable option, with echo boomers to follow. Student housing and recent graduates without kids could also benefit from it. I believe its a stay, and a growing market. I see baby boomers in my area living in travel trailers. Lower cost, more privacy and freedom than a studio apartment.
Price wise the smaller the house figure a higher cost per square foot. Appliance cost and such will be a fixed cost spread out over less sf.
I don't think you can compare tiny homes to mobile homes. I say that based on the type of asset classes we are talking about here. This was discussed heavily in Podcast 111. I could see going from Tiny Home to Mobile Home to SFH.
With that said, this conversation has come up in my circle of colleagues and I always ask, how many people do you know that live in one? I don't know anyone, nor does anyone I ask.
I tend to agree that this would be ideal for seasonal or vacation homes. To me the lack of equity long term is unattractive but as was also stated, everyone has different desires and different investing strategies.
We have neighbors (in an urban neighborhood) who live in a fully permitted 24' diameter yurt on property they own. And they have a 3 and 5 yr old. They built a separate bath house, and have a trailer for a guest house. I know people living in custom tiny Cavco cabins, which are permitted trailers, installed on rural properties. I know lots of people renting old trailers on mostly rural/ranch properties. Housing is costly here so people pay $750 - 1200 to rent an alternative type living space, with only 200 hundred sf. I know people who have lived for decades in tiny converted garages or carriage houses. We have one neighbor who has lived in their tiny back house (300sf) on the alley for the last 10 years, all the while renting out the front 2BDR for $2500/mo.
It's not something you're going to see anywhere where there is plenty of space and low cost housing/land.
@K. Marie Poe - thank you for sharing. That is really interesting and I haD nkt haD much exposure oit side of a couple of this thread and a couple of documentaries. I have heard of a tiny house village in Downtown DC as well. At some point I will do a drive by.
Here is what I wrote on the other tiny house forum post: I am in Mesa County (Grand Junction) Colorado. County regs here don't require houses to be a certain size (although some subdivisions do). All homes must have: bathing space, sleeping space, cooking space. R-8 zoning allows you to split off as little as 3000 sq feet to create a new lot. However, what I have done is find existing homes with extra, accessible lot space. Our City allows you to build what they call Accessory Dwelling Units in backyards! I am currently converting a 3/2 with an odd floorplan into a 2/1 AND a "tiny house" apartment (180 sq ft). The lot is large so I am also splitting some off and plan to build a cottage (500-600 sq ft) with a tiny house (240 sq ft) behind it. In theory, the lot is "free" - although there are most definitely costs involved in the process and I have seen comments about this that are dead-on: you don't get a break just because you are building a small house. The cost for a sewer tap, etc. is the same. I can only make this work because I am working with a run down house in a cheap neighborhood. But there are places like this all over town. The next month or so will tell - the "duplex" will hit the market and I will see whether I have proof of concept or not. In our market the tiny apartment would pay 50% of the overall housing cost. If someone chose to live in the tiny side and rent the larger, then they would have FREE housing...
I don't think you will find a set standard. Every state and municipality have different codes and ordinances they adopt. Then every neighborhoods have covenants that would need to be reviewed, that can cover minimum square footages, what can be parked in the yard, what fences can be built out of, etc... For instance my home has a 2 bedroom home in the backyard I rent out. Historically it was challenged, but the covenants allow for a care takers quarters, and that was its original purpose.
Auburn University's architectural students have something called rural studio. They build structures out of recycled materials in a poor community. They also have a what they call a super shed. Its one big roof with student dwelling sectioned off.
