TINY houses... Fad or here to stay??

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TINY houses... Fad or here to stay??

Joel OwensBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

Tiny houses

People are living in these 150 to 350 sq ft mobile houses. I think it's a lifestyle thing because mass America wouldn't live this way.

I would rather increase my income then have to live in such a small space. I like large spaces so this isn't for me but I will say it looks better than a dumpy trailer.

Here where I live you really wouldn't save anything. They have laws where you have to own 5 acres or more for a trailer etc. They do this because land would be about 150k or more for that in the suburban areas so it keeps the land from being littered with trailers everywhere.

I can see this being a trend in rural areas or the mountains.

Cost for one was said to about 35,000. For 300 sq ft it is about 117 a foot. Traveling in one of these as a rental might be interesting.  

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Douglas LarsonPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2008 · 410 posts · 337 votes
11y

I will attach my "Tiny House" photos at the bottom.

@Joel Owens  Tiny homes are fascinating to me. Over the last year I have been reading a lot about tiny houses and mini-cabins. It is becoming a very popular movement and I like the concept of minimal debt, getting rid of unnecessary stuff and a small environmental footprint. I think tiny homes work well with singles and couples but not so great with modern families for long-term housing. For about 6,000 years of recorded history, most families on earth have lived in what we now call "tiny homes" of about 300 sq. ft. or less. Now, we just have too much junk - part necessity and part fluff!

To indulge my tiny house fascination, I actually insulated and trimmed-out a 10 ft. x 12 ft. lofted garden shed to make a pretty nice, off-grid, mini-cabin to visit on weekends. I had to find just the right rural county about 90 minutes away from the Salt Lake City metro area that allows (or at least overlooks) such dwellings. We have spent many weekends out there but frankly, my kids get a little bored after a few days. For them, the simple life is fun to experience, but not permanently. They miss their friends, the wii, the trampoline and other conveniences. Also, my wife would leave me if we ever downsized so drastically! She actually created the floorplan for the cabin but her shoes alone would not all fit in the space! We do like our stuff....

Still, it's been a great family project to make our own little house and get "back to nature!" A lot of people have asked me how to make their own modified-shed tiny-house. I have seen some really cool ones on the Houzz app. They are used for guest quarters and writers' retreats (think Henry David Thoreau - Walden) and even permanent housing. Most cities have laws that allow for accessory structures of less than 200 sq. ft. but they cannot be used as a dwellings and cannot be the only structure on a parcel. Many people get around these rules by simply building the tiny house on wheels - making it a trailer.

One of these days I will write up the process I went through to make my mini-cabin. The total cost was about $4,000. The land was $15K, and it came with a stream ("Crik" as the locals say it). I've learned a lot and I may build another one soon.

Have Fun!

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  • Richard Dunlop
    Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 755 posts · 462 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Douglas Larson:

    I will attach my "Tiny House" photos at the bottom.

    @Joel Owens  Tiny homes are fascinating to me. 

    Cute!

    I could fit 18 of those in my basement.

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  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
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    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @K. Marie Poe for whatever reason my @mention doesn't work with your initial, etc. Anyway, how did your campground project turn out?  I've considered using something similar to tiny homes for a Bed and Breakfast type business on my 20 acres. Though, they would be more "cottages" and a little larger, maybe 500-700 sq. ft. I found these and just love them! Small cottage plans

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  • Donna Welschmeyer
    Agent/Investor · Gray Court, SC · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    I am fascinated by these tiny homes and love looking at the ways builders are incorporating the "essentials" into them. I have a file of space-saving techniques that I have seen in these, not that I intend to build or live in a tiny home, but that could be incorporated into larger dwellings to improve the use of space there. 

    As far as in-filling and backyard dwellings, I agree with what many have said regarding zoning and code restrictions. Particularly as back-yard dwellings, these will likely inspire some heated discussions at city council meetings! Maybe municipalities could take a look at what Grand Junction's requirements are; it sounds like they have put some thought into it.

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  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @James DeRoest:

    Has anyone ever thought about picking up old shotguns (10-12' wide), moving them to more desirable areas, and then refurbing them? Ok, a little bigger than a tiny home, but still minimalistic, but with a proper historic edge to them.

    The old shotguns have systems and construction not worth refurbishing.  Horrible siding and roofs and windows The best of the crappy ones are made of 1 x 3s, so you are starting with virtually nothing, other than I-beams, a hitch and a DMV trailer designation sticker.

    I worked on a resort campground project where we experimented with vintage airstreams.  They were the worst.  All they had going for them was their cool looking exterior shell.  which was far from bullet or leak proof.

     Are we talking about the same things? Shotgun houses made before the 1930s? 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Joel Owens

      just look at Tokyo they are way ahead of us in tiny homes they make and build them in all different configurations.

    One of my partners is building some on one of his subdivision in central ORegon.. about 5 of them will fit in our aircraft hanger he can build them there then move them on site.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    San Francisco tiny condos http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Home-small-...

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  • Brandon Hall
    CPA · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Joel Owens I think tiny homes are here to stay and will only grow in popularity, especially in large cities that are cramped for space as it is and need to handle a growing population. I have a few friends who are always talking about "the city of the future" and basically envision cities that are built "tall" utilizing micro apartments and tiny homes stacked on top of one another. 

    It's an interesting concept. I'd rather be building them or selling them rather than living in them.

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
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    It's cool that there is demand.

    I just like suburban areas born and raised.

    I only go into Atlanta for concerts, sports games etc. and have someone else drive us there. I do not like all the one way streets in Atlanta and then you end up in some really crap hole section if you do not know the way around.

    I just really like space. I am not talking about mega space that is not used but I am not going into 800 or 1,000 sq ft  where you can almost touch the walls around you.

    No doubt as the middle class gets eroded and you have the poor and the wealthy in bigger percentage then the small spaces will be needed more for the average worker to survive.

    I am glad I own a successful business. I was working out at the gym today and heard a lady that looked to be in her 40's say she worked at a doctor's office and held down two other jobs and it still wasn't enough for her to get by. For a majority of people it is really rough out there so I can see how living in a micro house for the price of almost a luxury car appeals to them. You can only cut so much. Having additional and higher income to invest and throw off more cash above what you need to live annually and stay comfortable is the key.  

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  • Rick Baggenstoss
    Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
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    I love the tiny house movement.  When I was much younger, I pursued living on a sailboat.  Not so easily done around Atlanta.  More feasible when I moved to Boston, but the weather was less conducive year around.  The idea was the same -- living well below your means, mobility, adventure, and thoughtful design. 

    @Joel Owens Ponce City Market rents 560-square-foot studio ($1,230 per month), but the ceilings are high so price per cubic foot isn't so bad.  You better hurry before they're all gone.

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  • Matthew Schroeder
    Investor · Carmel, IN · Member since 2014 · 332 posts · 245 votes
    11y

    I think the tiny "residence" concept is great, in specific situations & for certain customers.  I have seen some absolutely amazing 300-350 sf apartments in places such as New York, Hong Kong and Tokyo which have the functionality of apartments that are 700 - 900 sf.  In Hong Kong, a 350 sf apartment is not uncommon, and you can easily pay $1,200/month for it, depending on the location.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Rick Baggenstoss:

    I love the tiny house movement.  When I was much younger, I pursued living on a sailboat.  Not so easily done around Atlanta.  More feasible when I moved to Boston, but the weather was less conducive year around.  The idea was the same -- living well below your means, mobility, adventure, and thoughtful design. 

    @Joel Owens Ponce City Market rents 560-square-foot studio ($1,230 per month), but the ceilings are high so price per cubic foot isn't so bad.  You better hurry before they're all gone.

    I live in a harbor city and forgot all about the people I know living on their boats.  Slip leases are limited and it's hard to buy in,  but if you get one it's one of the great rental deals here.  We have friends that have a ranch 50 miles away and a city house.  When the kids were grown, they sold their city house and bought a boat, where they now spend half their time.  We have friends that needed to find an affordable solution in order to move their mother from CO and they bought her a tiny boat in the harbor.  Neither are boat people, they live there because it's beautiful and affordable.

    I think the tiny house and alternative living spaces are easier to manage in temperate places like Coastal CA.  No one is fighting any weather, hot or cold.  It's easy to extend the living space to the outdoors when the weather is so mellow.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @James DeRoest:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @James DeRoest:

    Has anyone ever thought about picking up old shotguns (10-12' wide), moving them to more desirable areas, and then refurbing them? Ok, a little bigger than a tiny home, but still minimalistic, but with a proper historic edge to them.

    The old shotguns have systems and construction not worth refurbishing.  Horrible siding and roofs and windows The best of the crappy ones are made of 1 x 3s, so you are starting with virtually nothing, other than I-beams, a hitch and a DMV trailer designation sticker.

    I worked on a resort campground project where we experimented with vintage airstreams.  They were the worst.  All they had going for them was their cool looking exterior shell.  which was far from bullet or leak proof.

     Are we talking about the same things? Shotgun houses made before the 1930s? 

    Around here, shotgun refers the room configuration (one room that leads to another, no hallways).  So I thought you were talking about older single wide mobiles, which are crap materials and construction.  

    Is there some kind of stick built pre 1930 house that can easily be moved?

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  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Is there some kind of stick built pre 1930 house that can easily be moved?

    Yes. It's where the term shotgun house originally came from.

    0Reply
  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @James DeRoest:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Is there some kind of stick built pre 1930 house that can easily be moved?

    Yes. It's where the term shotgun house originally came from.

     And here I thought it was the Talking Heads singing about a shot gun shack

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  • Eric L.
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2008 · 62 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    I live in a small (not that tiny, 500 sq/ft house) I bought for $19k in the Midwest in summer and I travel around in van style RV during winter. 

    The appeal to tiny houses is that there is way of living without being in debt. There's a mind shift change with today's youth that's important to understand.

    Most of the boomer's first experience with debt was probably a car payment. The car gave them freedom. They could get in the car every day and go to work. They enjoyed their car and in a few short years the car was paid off.

    Today's youth first experience with debt is a house payment in the form of a student loan. When they are out of college for a year, they can't touch it, but they can see the funds leaving their account and they can feel the burden. The burden for them lasts 20+ years.

    When the youth do get a job, it is more likely to be a temporary contracting position that may have good pay, but no security.

    The tiny house offers freedom from more debt and the freedom to survive between jobs that only last a year or two.  

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  • Charles Clinton
    Real Estate Lender · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 8 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:

    This generation is delaying marriage and children at a staggering rate.  They also prefer to measure their wealth in shared experiences with their friends, travel and memories than in "stuff".

    I think this is an interesting and astute point and one you often hear in articles about the new "shared economy" or tastes of the millennial generation. As a millennial myself I definitely think my values are different, in some ways, than my parent's generation and that the central nucleus of my life is a defined differently. That being said, because millennials are delaying marriage and children its almost too early to say how that will impact our goals and values. Its easy to place a trade less space for more freedom when the only person you're responsible for is yourself; as more millenials get married and start having kids I wonder if these patterns of consumption will begin to reflect their parents a bit more. 

    Getting back to tiny houses...I find their efficiency fascinating and I think there are absolutely niche uses for them that could develop into lasting trends - second homes, first homes for unmarried or recently married couples, student housing - but it seems hard to see them meeting the needs and desires of most american families long term.

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  • Paul Smythe
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2012 · 269 posts · 187 votes
    11y

    I have seriously considered a tiny house for myself in the past couple years. I don't want a lot of space (except for a yard) and a tiny house would be very cheap. It is just me and my dog, though. Anyone else would probably be harder in such a small place.

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  • Rob K.
    Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I've seen people building/buying these tiny homes at ridiculously high prices. I always wondwer why they don't just buy a travel trailer? It's way cheaper and ready to live in.

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  • Andy Robison
    Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2013 · 465 posts · 170 votes
    11y

    >< I know one gentleman that I work with has decided to put two tiny homes on a plot of land he owns by a lake, and rent them out long term and or weekly as a vacation spot. If he's successful he plans on adding up to twenty. Tiny homes surrounded by trees. I'd rent one for a weekend on the lake.

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  • Joseph M.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Rob K.:

    I've seen people building/buying these tiny homes at ridiculously high prices. I always wondwer why they don't just buy a travel trailer? It's way cheaper and ready to live in.

    Yeah that is a good point. Smaller doesn't always mean cheaper. 

    Article about 'tiny houses' from Forbes

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  • THANG BUI
    Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    I see the appeal in tiny houses. 

    I graduated from pharmacy school a few years ago and I seriously do not know how I would be able to save up for a down payment on a house in Southern California. I'm currently living with my parents but it's hard to pay down my loans AND save at the same time.

    One alternative is to someday move to a cheaper state. However, the thought of getting a tiny house sounds like a good fit for me.

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  • Douglas LarsonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2008 · 410 posts · 337 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Rob K.:

    I've seen people building/buying these tiny homes at ridiculously high prices. I always wonder why they don't just buy a travel trailer? It's way cheaper and ready to live in.

    Yeah, I've seen tiny homes on wheels sell for 50K, or people bragging they only spent 25K going the DIY route!  My converted shed (pics posted earlier in the thread) only cost me $4K, including the trailer but it took me 3 months of part-time work to do it.  A decent, used travel trailer can run 5-10K and it's probably perfect for anybody looking for occasional use.

    That said, a really nice, custom tiny home has exactly what the builder/buyer wants and includes far better insulation, plumbing, appliances, electrical, heating/AC and storage for those wanting to use it as everyday living space.

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  • Krysty Underwood
    Durant, OK · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    Tiny houses have been around for as long as han civilization. The majority of the world:s populationlives tiny already and always has. Its our western idea of excess tthat's the fad, and the younger post baby boomer generations are learning that. In all of american history, only the baby boomers and portions of the earliest gen x'ers believed that having this much excess space was "required" for normal living. More and more millennials and gen z'ers are seeing big living as a fad. Look at the older, pre-1940s homes for the middle class and you can trsttest this theory yourself. Small closets, small rooms, small sometimes detached kitchen, moreso the further back you go. Tiny homes are not a fad. They are the only way our planet is going to support a continuously growing population. 50 years from now you will see this as an absolute fact in the metro areas and spreading out. In places like China and Japan, it already is. In virtually every 3rd world country, same thing for their median income workers and lower. Doesn't mean America is turning 3rd world (in some ways it is with our poor health care, increasing morbidity and infant mortality rate but that's another discussion). It means that we're getting smarter and learning to fix some overcrowding problems thru better use of limited space. I don't think this is an example of american ingenuity as we did not "invent" tiny houses, although we will clam to have 50 years from now like the steam engine and light bulb. It is a great example of Americans utilizing fixes already out there to solve our own problems.

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  • Jenifer Levini
    Attorney · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 358 votes
    10y

    anyone still interested in this topic, please see my June 20, 2016 post
    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/517/topics/324006-funding-for-tiny-home-village-in-california

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