I am now convinced.....

Karen Hurd · 2015-05-03T12:12:06-07:00

I am now convinced that It's not the wholesaler who is a hindrance, but the realtor. I have called roughly 25 realtors. I explain to them everything that I do, because in the state of New York you can assign a property. It's in the contract. I met with all except for 4 or 5. They all said the same thing...Yes, I would be happy to find distressed, motivated...etc...for you. Yes, I would be happy to throw you listings before they go up. Yes, I would be happy to run the comps for you. I go home feeling good. I call, I email...Nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is not on the weekends....I know that's when they are showing houses, but during the week when I have gone into their offices and noticed several realtors asleep at their desks. I finally find the right one. He's the broker too and runs the show. He spends 2 hours with me, we are talking and listening to each other and at the end of the conversation, we set up a day and a time to look at the perfect house for one of my cash buyers. He says he will call at noon. Nothing. I wait until 1:30pm, because I know how things come up, to call him...I leave a message. Nothing. At 2:45, I send him a text. Nothing. For the rest of the beautiful day, that my daughter was in New York and happened to be off....absolutely nothing. No jury would convict me. I think I'm going to give up and that's just not me, but I have worked morning, noon and night on this for 3 months. I have slept 4 hours a night because I am doing research on the computer, trying to find the right realtor, getting all my paperwork in order....just working so hard. I cannot remember the last time I felt this lugubrious and heavyhearted. I walked away from that meeting on cloud nine because he completely understood everything that I explained to him and how wholesaling worked. He loved the idea!! I'm not taking 50% of any wrongdoing , 85% or 99%. I blame him 100% for being selfish, discounteous, and uncaring with regards to someone's livelihood. And, If there is one thing that I cannot stand is a person messing with another persons livelihood,What a shame.

K Arnett

Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 7 votes

11y

I'm no expert but...Realtors don't know how to say NO and they don't know how to work with Investors. To get houses, I'd drive around looking for vacant houses and leaving notes on doors if no one is home. When someone calls, U figure out what to say and ask about the house. Do they need someone to take up payments? You can do that by moving in a tenant and paying the note for them.

Early on, I bought into a monthly database at $100/month. I dug around the data. I used to mail and call all the expired listings. 3 houses came to me that primitive way.

1 Reply

Jon Holdman

Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes

11y

Are you trying to wholesale? Off the MLS? I think that's a VERY tough route. Better to do your own marketing to find sellers. Anyone can see the listings on the MLS. A wholesaler who's just getting MLS properties under contract, marking them up, and passing them on is wasting everyone's time. Any investor could have bought those properties directly. The wholesaler adds no value.

Agents are looking for buyers. Not someone who's going to find a buyer. That's what the buyer's agent does. Many don't understand wholesaling at all. Those who do probably know you're going to consume a lot of time writing lowball offers that will go nowhere. And that you're not going to buy the property, only try to find a buyer. And if you don't the deal is going to fall apart.

An agents job is to help buyers buy and sellers sell.

15 Reply

Account Closed

San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes

11y

I don't know anything about wholesaling. But, I do know about negotiating. You need to offer the agent something he/she is going to want.

So, what's in it for the agent? And are you offering something that is legal for him to do? Won't get him in hot water with his boss or the owners or compromise his license? Be worth his time?

Pretend you are an agent. What would you want someone to offer you, who is a wholesaler, that would make you want to work with them?

Because it is about the agent's livelihood, too.

0 Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

11y

I have no problem TELLING people NO.

That broker to spend 2 hours with you frankly was over the top.

Commercial buyers contact me and I e-mail a liquidity and net worth statement. If they go through the steps we talk. If they do not go through the steps or want to wholesale or assign etc. it's a no go. I pull it out of them in a few seconds of communication. Time is money.

I think it is great that people want to better their lives and income. If they want an education of how people close deals then they need to pay for it. The problem is dealing with buyers directly is hard enough as they can be flaky even if they have money and are qualifed to do something. You start adding in a wholesaler and assigning to an unkown buyer and all that stuff and the chances of the closing failing are very high. If the whoelsaler wants to put up large non-refundable earnest money then great we have a chunk of cash if their end buyer or the wholesaler doesn't perform.

Most want to throw up 50 bucks or something crazy. It's just not worth a brokers time.

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3 Reply

Kevin Delaney

Investor · Feasterville Trevose, PA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 31 votes

11y

I must be missing something. Are you saying you want the Realtor to find properties for you to wholesale? Then they get nothing in return? Realtors pay for marketing like everyone else. I'm missing why they would pass on their deal for you to wholesale. Now, if you were marketing and found a lead that you couldn't make a deal work, it might be worth something for the Realtor to take the listing. The way I read it, it sounds like you want them to give you a steak for a smile.

3 Reply

Karen Hurd

OP

wholesale/assign/whatever · Levittown, NY · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 14 votes

11y

Okay, Thank you for your guidance and participation. For K Arnett, I am new at this and It's a learning process. You are absolutely right...realtors do not know how to say no, and they will tell you that they work with investors, but they really don't. My partner and I found a website today that describes your "early on primitive way" and we will use it immediately. Jon Holdman - We (I have a partner) are not trying off the MLS. We are self-taught and were also taught by a nice young man that learned Dean G's techniques which suck. We asked for listings before they went onto the MLS in exchange for -Sue Kelly,Kevin Delaney - The realtor would be getting the same exact % at the closing that they would get if it were a regular buyer.Kevin Delaney - I never asked a realtor to find me wholesale properties. I asked the realtor to find me motivated sellers, distressed...etc...I never asked her for anything that she would not be 100% involved in. I wouldn't do a closing without a realtor, even if I found the property on my own. I'm not stupid or greedy. I am well aware that a realtor has the attorneys and title companies, that they've been working with for years. I would never ask someone to do me a favor without repaying what's due to them. I don't work for free and I don't ever expect anyone else to either. In addition, I also never asked a realtor to do something that was unethical. I asked first if it was ethical, was told yes, and offered the realtor a list of properties that know one (not realtors, not mls, not Donald Trump,) knows about yet, (this list came to me from a close friend and it's useless to me. I need a realtor. We both would have done well with it.) and their bosses (brokers), would be more than happy to have it, in exchange for running comps for me because that's what I asked her for. She took the list and I never heard from her again. I called, emailed, texted, However....I didn't go down to her office because I didn't want to put her "Livlihood in danger....I was raised with excellent morals and values. Kevin Delaney -Both of my brothers are my cash buyers, are entrepreneurs and very rich, only they are not arrogant and live their lives without the haughtiness. I'm sorry a house fell on your sister. Joel Owens - Both my brothers are very rich and are cash buyers. I have nothing more to add. John Oitice - Thank you John for your extremely kind offer. If It's okay with you; I would like to send you and email as to what I am looking for. It was an extremely generous offer and I greatly appreciate it. I will certainly return the favor someday.

Thanks again,

Karen

0 Reply

Brent Coombs

Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes

11y

@Karen Hurd You said you "offered the realtor a list of properties that no-one (not realtors, not mls, not Donald Trump,) knows about yet, (this list came to me from a close friend and it's useless to me)", and yet your cash Buyers are not interested?

You "asked the realtor to find me motivated sellers", which indicates to me that the List you have does NOT include that criteria (so, would the Donald Trumps of this world REALLY be interested to have it)?

Anyway, unless that Agent contacts those owners to get exclusive rights, there is nothing stopping you from still trying to benefit from having it. Lesson learned?...

1 Reply

Randy E.

Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

@Karen Hurd, very rarely will anyone help you to the degree which you're seeking. YOU have to find the distressed homeowners. YOU have to convince the distressed homeowners to agree to sign with you. YOU have to build a database of investors who will be able to close quickly on any deals YOU discover.

YOU are the only person responsible for your ultimate success or failure in the real estate world.

BTW, it might be unethical for a Real Estate agent to sign a contract with a homeowner, learn about the homeowners personal situation, then alert you that the homeowner is a distressed seller who would be willing to sell for much less than the asking price. The RE agent is contractually obligated to represent the homeowner, and not obligated in any way to helping you make a profit.

Good luck in your efforts.

3 Reply

Kevin Delaney

Investor · Feasterville Trevose, PA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 31 votes

11y

It seems perhaps you were insulted by my confusion. For this, I apologize, A wholesaler doesn't really need a Realtor. You would.market your business to find those properties. You would negotiate a sales contract with those owners. Then you would sell your interest in that contract to your very rich brothers. A Realtor has a fiduciary obligation to their client. They should be doing what's in the best interest of their client. It would be a stretch to think that passing them to a wholesaler would be in their best interest. If they needed a quick sale, the Realtor most likely knows or has access to investors directly. Thereby saving your wholesale fee. It sounded to me like you want the Realtor to do your marketing. That's 80% of the wholesaler's job. I wish you the best of luck in your business.

1 Reply

Doug P.

Investor · Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

@Karen Hurd I gave up trying to work with agents 10+ years ago. What you have to understand is that very few agents make their living from selling real estate. For most it's a hobby. For the few top agents who actually treat it as a business, there is so much easy traditional sales to make, they don't need to work with investors.

The breaking point for me was when I ran an experiment. I had become suspicious that my offers were not making it to the sellers. So I gathered the contact info for 500 sellers of MLS-listed properties, then I contacted their listing agents and sent offers on all of them (this was over the course of several months). Every single time I was told by the agent that the seller had rejected my offer. So I contacted the sellers directly, and guess what I found? Only 1 had actually received my offer. ONE. Out of 500!

Ever since then I've marketed to sellers and had no problems finding more deals than I can close.

Good luck!

3 Reply

John HornerPro Member

Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes

11y

Realtors know there is a good chance you won't end up closing which makes them look bad and wastes their time. You need to get your license and do this yourself.

2 Reply

John HornerPro Member

Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes

11y

I should probably point out that this is not a good strategy for wholesaling either. You need to find unlisted properties. Marking up MLS deals you have in contract is worthless, where is the value if a buyer could just hop on the MLS and get the same deal?

0 Reply

Kevin Delaney

Investor · Feasterville Trevose, PA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 31 votes

11y

is she trying to mark up MLS deals? The way I understand it, She wants the Realtor to pass it to her before they even list it on the MLS.

0 Reply

Mark Elliott

Investor · west seneca, NY · Member since 2014 · 376 posts · 211 votes

11y

hi karen. you are in a tough market. sure, here in new york, i am in buffalo by the way, you can assign a house. thats cool for quick flips. finding them is another challenge. if you are not getting results from the method you are using, change the method. i drive around looking for distressed properties. i have gotten so good at it, i could spot them a mile away. you would be amazed how motivated most of these people are to sell these places. here is a little secret i stumbled upon last year. the feds put a stop to so many foreclosures hitting the market and hurting the market a few years ago. so, they limited the banks amount of foreclosures that they could market. consequently, the banks chose only the higher dollar deals they had on their desks. who wouldn't? so, the "low dollar" houses, what did they do with them??? THEY DROPPED THEM. thats right, they forgave the mortgage and gave them back to the owners. most of these owners do not even know this as the bank sends the letter to the last known address for the owner, which is the house they moved out of years ago. so the house sits, collects past due taxes, and never hits the MLS. in a short time, you have a distressed house that the county now owns and will auction at the next auction where you literally have hundreds of competition. stop the middle man. find that owner. offer to buy the house dirt cheap. they own it, they don't want it, you give them cash they never expected to have, and you now own a house free and clear for a little as you will ever pay for one. check with your local governing authority and do your homework to make sure the forgiven loan is the first loan and not an equity loan. you can do all of this by simply driving around. go see the code enforcement officer and ask for a list of any distressed houses that he knows of in the area. its a good start. i have personally done this twice last year and the most i gave for a house was $2250 plus took over back taxes at $4700. let me know if you need more help. get moving and forget the MLS and all the lazy realtors.

5 Reply

Michael Noto

Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

11y

Saying that realtors do not work well with investors is being way to general. What you are trying to pull off through the MLS with wholesaling is very difficult.

As a realtor, it takes very little effort to set up a search for someone through the MLS. At least up here in CT it is. I have no problem doing that for anyone who asks.

As a realtor once you actually go out and look at a property with someone, you can tell right away if they are for real or not.

1 Reply

Paul Ewing

Investor · Boyd, TX · Member since 2014 · 688 posts · 467 votes

11y

Asking a real estate agent if they work with investors when you are a wholesaler is meaningless. You are not an investor. You are working a job as a broker even if you can come up with ways to stay outside of the state RE commissions sights.

5 Reply

Richard C.

Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

It sounds like you have put in some considerable effort, time and money. Just think about where you would be if you had put the same effort, time and money into getting your license. You could have access to all of this information in your own right, and would be able to act as a buyer's agent for your brothers, finding them properties that meet their criteria, and collect significant commissions.

After a year or two (varies by state) of doing that, you can get a broker's license, set up shop on your own, and capture the full buyer's agent commission for every sale you make to your brothers. And anyone else. If they are as rich and eager to buy as you say, you could do very, very well with very little risk.

Getting a agent license in my state is a matter of about $1000 and a couple hundred hours.

But NOOOO, for some reason people feel the need to buy some guru's wholesaling "system." No wholesaler on here has ever given a good reason why they don't just take the class and get the license. The answers are always things along the lines of, "I'm more interested in the investment side" or "I want to be in the problem-solving business." Which I take as "I want to get rich quick, not get a job!" and "I've completely swallowed the guru kool-aid!" respectively.

Just get your license already.

7 Reply

Paul Ewing

Investor · Boyd, TX · Member since 2014 · 688 posts · 467 votes

11y

I think some of the ethics requirements that go along with a license and NAR membership would hinder a lot of wholesalers tactics.

2 Reply

Richard C.

Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @Paul Ewing:

I think some of the ethics requirements that go along with a license and NAR membership would hinder a lot of wholesalers tactics.

Well, there is that, plus the credit and criminal background checks. But a lot of them really are just looking to get rich quick, I think, but don't want to come right out and admit it.

0 Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

11y

The broker/agents with connections do not need wholesalers to do deals.

If a wholesaler really has a deal and they control it then maybe something can be done. Most of the time even if the deal is off market the wholesaler is passing around overpriced trash not worth anything.

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1 Reply

Karen Hurd

OP

wholesale/assign/whatever · Levittown, NY · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 14 votes

11y

Paul Ewing I love Boyd Texas!! I've been there many times!! Brent Coombs - Go back and read what I said about the list. Read it carefully. Randy E. - Great advice and info. I'm going to take it and look into the realtor thing in New York. Kevin Delaney - Still wrong, still arrogant, still haughty. Do you really believe your remarks are helping me? "How do you talk if you don't have a brain?"
Doug Pretorius - Thank you Doug for great info!! I never thought of it that way. You are absolutely correct. May I ask you a question? Since I am NOT becoming a realtor how do you get the real exact comps? Zillow says one thing, realtytrac another, trulia another..I was told that the only way I can get exact comps is through a realtor. If you could help me with this..It would make my day! John Horner - OMGosh, really? I'm not looking to mark up anything. I never asked a realtor to do anything of the kind. I ask for freaking real comps. I am well aware my biggest mistake was getting my masters in English Comp. But, there are some real benighted people on this site. Mark Elliott - Thank you Mark! The properties that I had mentioned in my earlier post....the ones that I was given.....Can I PM you later about them? They are the ones that I tried...very hard...to figure out how to get them on my own....but could not. I think that you could help me...and, if you can...I would be more than happy to split it 50/50. You could have your lawyer draw up a contract and I will sign it. Thanks again.!! Michael Noto - Thanks for that Michael. You actually read AND made sense of my post. I appreciate your input and will give it a lot of thought. Richard C. - Are you going to vote for Hillary too?? 1. I didn't pay one dime...for one class....not even a book from a so called "Guru". I ended up on Bigger Pockets because friend suggested that I go on to learn and they were right. 2. I believe that you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning, than you do getting rich quick. Once again....I wasn't raised that to think that way. 3. I don't owe you an answer with regards to getting my license and It's not because I'm not a people person, It's because I'm not a stupid people person. You remind me of a Slinky...remember those? Not really good for much except for being pushed down the stairs. Mark, I'm working...I'll PM you in a bit and thanks so much for your constructive information.

Cheers,

Karen

1 Reply

Kevin Delaney

Investor · Feasterville Trevose, PA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 31 votes

11y

Wow. Well, I'm still wrong, arrogant and haughty. I merely asked for clarification as to what you wanted. In fact, I apologized for you seeming offended by my earlier post. At least I'm not the only one at which you decided to throw insults. Is it just comps you want? Comps are simply comparable properties that have recently sold or are currently for sale. I would imagine you could get a pretty good idea from any number of the sights you mentioned. In your original post (the one where you only insulted Realtors and not other BP members), you mentioned the Realtors bringing you deals so you could take them to your rich brothers. That confused me and I'll explain why.

Let's say my mother would like to sell her home. As it sits the home is worth 150k. My mother needs a quick sale and needs at least 100k. I, as a Realtor, call you. You enter an assignable sales contract for 100k. You sell it to your brothers for 110k. You pocket the 10k, I pocket a 3k commission, and mom walks away with 97k. (numbers are for demonstration purposes only, not including closing costs, title fees etc..)

Now, scenario 2. Mom wants to sell her house. It's worth 150k. She needs a quick sale and wants at least 100k. I call any number of investors, but most likely my favorite one first (my favorite would be the one who uses me to sell the home after repairs). I offer him my mother's home for 110k. He purchases my mother's home. I make 3300 commission and Mom walks away with 106,700.

You see, I failed to see the value you were providing in your original post. I only asked for clarification. Your clarification was that the Realtor would receive the same commission. I hope in the above scenario, you would see that is not necessarily the case. There are lots of investors out there. If there wasn't, a site like this wouldn't be around. I wish you wouldn't take any of the members words as offensive or insulting. That's simply not the case. As far as comps go, I give free comps all the time. But I do so in the hope of generating leads. It would seem to me, you would like a Realtor to spend their time giving you comps and spend their money marketing for deals that you may be interested in selling to your rich brothers. I'm not seeing the plus side for the Realtor. Their commission is there with or without you, so what are you bringing to the table?

2 Reply

John HornerPro Member

Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Kevin Delaney:

is she trying to mark up MLS deals? The way I understand it, She wants the Realtor to pass it to her before they even list it on the MLS.

After re-reading I think you're right. So what is the benefit for the agent to pass her the deals?

Why would you really on other people to bring you deals?

An agent has an obligation to get their clients the most money for the property, passing it on to only you does not satisfy that obligation.

This strategy is worthless in my opinion. If you're not willing to put in the work to make yourself successful, why would someone else?

1 Reply

Karen Hurd

OP

wholesale/assign/whatever · Levittown, NY · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 14 votes

11y

John Horner - Kevin Delaney - Here is my answer....Each of my cash buyers( I'm going to refer to them as Investors, because I don't think that you guys like the cash buyers thing, though all of mine are 100% cash.) are attracted to different properties.

I don't know if you have heard about the "distressed, blighted, zombie" properties on Long Island or not....I have found, on my own, over 50 of these properties by driving around on my own and because I was once a very good Republian Girlfriend..to, well.....a very good Republican ex Boyfriend.... whom Is still a close friend..... I have a rough total of 125.....They are all different and occupy every single town on Long Island. Many of them are in the most gorgeous areas I've ever seen and are on huge pieces of beautiful land, in blue ribbon school districts and no sex offenders. I'm getting to the answer...just hang in there....

I have tons of investors....they are like ants; they are everywhere. I have assigned many of the properties to my Investors. Other investors have zero interest in them because 85% of the properties would require digging up Mel Blanc and having him blow them up with dynamite (total tear downs,) B. They have zero interest in building a 3/2 on 12 acres of gorgeous land.

I have many many many investors that have 100% zero interest...I'm dead pan serious... they wouldn't pick up the phone, on their own, at any point, in their entire lifetime, to call a realtor, seeking the property which requires their exact specs, formula...whatever you want to call it... This town, this block, these windows, this type of Church Bell, and have 300 bedrooms...I don't know, but I think you get my point. They text me.

THIS is where I come in as a wholesaler. While my Investor Tom, his wife, 2.3 kids (I never understood what that meant,) his Boat Manager, and Chef are on their private Yacht on their way to Bermuda... They text me what it is they are looking for..... and say....GO FETCH. There is absolutely nothing baleful or corrupt going on in my mind when I approach a realtor. I am not asking for special treatment, I am not asking for them to "mark up the MLS deal", which honestly; I never heard of before until today, when John mentioned it. I am simply asking the realtor to fill the needs of one of my investors and Oh...guess what?? If she or he has what the investor is looking for...I get to feed myself, and buy Laundry Detergent too!!!!

No peccadillo, but I have many investors that just don't like realtors. They like wholesalers a whole banana bunch better. I take at least 50 to 60 pics of the house inside and out, I find out about rehab, updates, taxes, the electrical system, are there tenants, floors, garages, central air, did anyone die in the house.....(yes, I was once asked.)...Blah, Blah, Blah...put it on a postlet, text them the link and get an answer....

To be quite dispassionate, one should consider the fact that I have roughly 40 to 55 houses, sitting there, with families of Raccoons living in them rent free, and are BBQing wabbits in their backyards.

I really really hope this bring some clarity to you guys because I gotta go. One of the Raccoons has invited me over for dinner.

Cheers,

Karen

0 Reply

Kevin Delaney

Investor · Feasterville Trevose, PA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 31 votes

11y

It brings lots of clarity. You don't need a Realtor. You have the houses. You have the investors. All you need to do is negotiate with the owner of record. You started this thread because Realtors weren't calling you back. Why are they suppose to be calling you? Maybe they were as confused as I was. I don't see where you need one. If you want e to locate a specific type of home for you so that you can sell it to one of your investors, I cant. I think that would be crossing the wholesale line and be more of brokering deal. Getting your Iicense is probably your best bet.

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I am now convinced.....

I am now convinced.....

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