Blockchain real estate brainstorm
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Levi T.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votesWe are seeing a lot of hype around using blockchain on stuff that does not need it, but if those startups want to be hot and sexy, you need blockchain in the game to turn heads. ICOs are the new IPOs for all startups. There is a reckoning coming for all those altcoins that are launching with zero value as a business that backing it.
As for what blockchain will do for real estate, counties that adopt it can stop dealing with clouded titles as blockchain will let us insure the owner on record is the owner, once a property is recorded to the blockchain. It wont be hard for them to adopt, it's basically a centralized BC ran by the county. It will also mean faster transfer and recoding.
I only see 2 futures for crypto:
As Currency: It lets people move money freely, cheaper, and it also provides them an exit out of their countries currency without a stock broker. When it comes to the currency side of things, the rest of the world will come first before America as my country is not like Grease or Zimbabwe in that respect yet. This market won’t have a lot of players, we don’t need 1,000 crypto currencies, only 2-3 really. I think our currency players are already defined in this respect, they just need time to stabilize more.
As Technology: On the other side of things, people are issuing coins for startup capital, if they are successful then your coin is worth more, this is what’s driving the value of these coins., from there you can buy or sell it on a open exchange, or maybe you can trade it in for stock at some point if they make the leap to a publicly traded company (I'm speculating on that last bit). It allows everyday people to get in on public offering without having to be a millionaire, it also allows companies to stay private and avoid all the regulation and red tape. Hopefully the SEC does not stomp on that and cut us out of the ICO market. Lots of regulation is headed our way in 2018 for America.
Right now we are is massive speculation mode, people are tossing whatever they can get to stick to the ICO market. There will come a shakedown at some point, that’s when we will see which tech companies emerge as the next Amazon or Facebooks of the world.
My top picks are BTC and ETH for currency. ICO alts are XRP, POWR, TRX, and RED (Launching in a few days). I'll be HODLing those till the end of time. I'm hoping BTC gets segwit2x implemented. It cost to much now of days to transfer, and it's slow as mud. If BTC fails to fix that issue, it's done for as a currency coin.
177 Replies
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Jon Q. I suppose what will happen is its just another consultant I hire.. just like I hire someone to do my tax's I will need someone to explain how all this works..
No, Not solely that. This will fundamentally change the way you conduct your business. Imagine when you buy a property having no middleman but the parties can transact and you can watch as the closing progresses through the block chain. Imagine taking payments directly from tenants using crypto currency with money being received (note waiting to be “posted”) within 4 seconds, no banks involved and little to no fees. Imagine when you are developing properties you don’t need to go to a lender to raise debt or equity capital, but you raise capital through an initial coin offering, similar to crowdfunding, where small investors globally can invest very small amounts because it is so cheap to facilitate the transaction (no lender to drive up fees).
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Jon Q. well jon I don't have tenants but we have about 1500 notes out at servicing company so I can see the benefit in that.. and I have 8 figures in construction loans with banks.. I can see the benefit of having 8 million coin investors at 1 dollar each they each make good % return and they are well diversified.
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
This is happening now!
Initial Coin Offering
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_coin_offering
ICO funding hit a record $800 million in Q2 2017https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/07/ico-report-q2-coindesk/amp/
- Investor · Morrisville, NC · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 673 votes8y
@Jon Q. We discussed Blockchain a few weeks ago extensively in other threads. You can do a quick search and you will find many references. I posted a good number of them in the thread. RealMLS (REX) is also a startup based in NJ/Australia that is quite involved with a roadmap. I'm also involved in a few initiatives in this area.
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Jon Q. well jon I don't have tenants but we have about 1500 notes out at servicing company so I can see the benefit in that.. and I have 8 figures in construction loans with banks.. I can see the benefit of having 8 million coin investors at 1 dollar each they each make good % return and they are well diversified.
Yes, I think you may want to consider an ICO or token sale if you have a suitable project...
Here’s a list of upcoming ICOs: https://tokenmarket.net/ico-calendar/upcoming
This IS the way new startups are raising capital here in the Bay Area. Particularly appropriate, when you’re Trying to build a large following of smaller investors.
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Henri Meli:
@Jon Q. We discussed Blockchain a few weeks ago extensively in other threads. You can do a quick search and you will find many references. I posted a good number of them in the thread. RealMLS (REX) is also a startup based in NJ/Australia that is quite involved with a roadmap. I'm also involved in a few initiatives in this area.
Sounds interesting. I’ll check out your postings. Thx!
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Jon Q. what about SEC rules like doing PPM's and stuff with this put crowdfunders who broker deals out of business.. And will this be a boon to syndicators they don't have to spend 60k on PPM docs and will this put attornies who specialize in syndications and PPM's out of business.
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Jon Q. well jon I don't have tenants but we have about 1500 notes out at servicing company so I can see the benefit in that.. and I have 8 figures in construction loans with banks.. I can see the benefit of having 8 million coin investors at 1 dollar each they each make good % return and they are well diversified.
Ex. Propy raised over $15M in a few days!
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Jon Q. well instead of helping my clients buy performing first notes that are hard to find as it is.. AT least to the quality of my stuff.. I could just keep them all.. ???? I would not need help others just keep them all to myself.
Also the turn key guys selling SFRs for cash flow.. they just keep them all.. Heck half the people that question turnkey wonder why the guys don't keep them all here is a avenue to let them do that ????? Am I on track with this. ??
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Jon Q. what about SEC rules like doing PPM's and stuff with this put crowdfunders who broker deals out of business.. And will this be a boon to syndicators they don't have to spend 60k on PPM docs and will this put attornies who specialize in syndications and PPM's out of business.
You should consult an attorney specializing in ICOs and token sales, but yes, I believe there are significant cost savings.
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Jon Q. well instead of helping my clients buy performing first notes that are hard to find as it is.. AT least to the quality of my stuff.. I could just keep them all.. ???? I would not need help others just keep them all to myself.
Also the turn key guys selling SFRs for cash flow.. they just keep them all.. Heck half the people that question turnkey wonder why the guys don't keep them all here is a avenue to let them do that ????? Am I on track with this. ??
I’m not exactly sure what you are asking. Can you be more specific?
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Jon Q. what about SEC rules like doing PPM's and stuff with this put crowdfunders who broker deals out of business.. And will this be a boon to syndicators they don't have to spend 60k on PPM docs and will this put attornies who specialize in syndications and PPM's out of business.
Yes, websites will eventually likely take the place of brokers and others playing a matchmaking or middle man role, but the space is still evolving...
Also, FYI raising crypto currency enables you to more easily raise capital worldwide... that said, the governments of some countries will undoubtably try to pass greater regulation...
Right now, I can send a litecoin to anyone in the world in 4 seconds with little to no fee and no banking regulation.
Try moving your USD to Canada, which I’ve looked into, and see how much fees you’ll pay for that and how long.
- Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Jon Q.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Jon Q. I suppose what will happen is its just another consultant I hire.. just like I hire someone to do my tax's I will need someone to explain how all this works..
No, Not solely that. This will fundamentally change the way you conduct your business. Imagine when you buy a property having no middleman but the parties can transact and you can watch as the closing progresses through the block chain. Imagine taking payments directly from tenants using crypto currency with money being received (note waiting to be “posted”) within 4 seconds, no banks involved and little to no fees. Imagine when you are developing properties you don’t need to go to a lender to raise debt or equity capital, but you raise capital through an initial coin offering, similar to crowdfunding, where small investors globally can invest very small amounts because it is so cheap to facilitate the transaction (no lender to drive up fees).
Well, I look forward to watching it evolve. My son is invested and believes in its future, although he does see the abuse rising where everyone is trying to find an angle in every facet of existing business to take advantage of the craze. While I see the benefit for crowdfunding or other group investment, I think actual property sales and collecting rents are still a long ways off. Exchanges seem to have frequent Withdrawal or Deposit delays. And, at least right now, there is no stable value, so if I accept rent now in ETH, it could be worth half that amount in $US in 3 hours. That would need to be solved before I would accept rent in cryptocurrency. And maybe they will be able to close a property without a middleman, real estate agent or closing attorney, but I've learned over the years that most people cannot sell their own homes as they will destroy a sale over the simplest things, and half my job is saving them from themselves and getting the deal done. And those title issues I was talking about, like where a neighbor is contesting a property line or a widow saying she has rights to the home even though she's not on the deed, make it very difficult to transfer property without assistance. It will be interesting to see where it all leads, but it's definitely going to change things.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes8yThe American banker article talks about A blockchain could also facilitate crowdsourced mortgages. Instead of taking out a $200,000 loan from one lender, a borrower could get $2,000 each from 1,000 investors - yeah and how would that work for lien position. I would love to be in position #999 or 1,000. For this to be implemented it would need to be regulated very strongly which means the US government would need to write up the regulations. How long do you think that would take? While it appears to look like a great idea, I still think it’s over a decade away. Flying cars would be great too and we have talked about them for 25 years and where are we with them Some businesses yes blockchain may be functional and efficient but I have severe doubts on getting the lending industry and local jurisdictions doing this. Counties just started allowing electronic assignment recordings never mind moving to something this advanced Not saying it’s not a great technology as I don’t know enough about it- but it has a ton of hurdles
7e investments53 Reviews - 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Chris Seveney:
The American banker article talks about
A blockchain could also facilitate crowdsourced mortgages. Instead of taking out a $200,000 loan from one lender, a borrower could get $2,000 each from 1,000 investors
- yeah and how would that work for lien position. I would love to be in position #999 or 1,000.
For this to be implemented it would need to be regulated very strongly which means the US government would need to write up the regulations. How long do you think that would take?
While it appears to look like a great idea, I still think it’s over a decade away. Flying cars would be great too and we have talked about them for 25 years and where are we with them
Some businesses yes blockchain may be functional and efficient but I have severe doubts on getting the lending industry and local jurisdictions doing this. Counties just started allowing electronic assignment recordings never mind moving to something this advanced
Not saying it’s not a great technology as I don’t know enough about it- but it has a ton of hurdles
Not as far off as you might think...
http://abcnews.go.com/International/real-life-iron-man-breaks-world-record-fastest/story?id=51045141
- Investor · Morrisville, NC · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 673 votes8y
The greatest thing about it is ... it is not regulated. In theory, No government intervention, consensus rules.
The biggest issue with this thing is ... it is not regulated. Just imagine a few wealthy and ill-intentioned powerful people (or even governments via third parties) discover a flaw in the system or "buy" enough control to manipulate it one way or another (yes, it is possible).
- 8yIan IppolitoBusiness MemberInvestor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
This sounds like a pitch from a cyber currency promoter. All of this is really far removed from anything that is even close to possible today, or in the near future and very well may never be possible.
1) "loan and invest in cyber currency": Cyber currencies always have been and continue to be too volatile to use as real money. No developer is going to take out a loan on a property in cyber currency when there's a great chance that the dollar value of what they owe at the end might be 1000-3000% more than it was today because of speculators. So no investor is going to loan money on a property in cyber currency, when it's possible the money they get back might be 40% less than what they thought it was because of a flash crash at the wrong time. Real currencies have central banks that do things to remove the volatility. By definition, cyber currencies never will.
2) "collect money from tenants in cyber currency": Same problem. The average Joe tenant is not going to put his money into cyber coins today, when it might go down 40% by the time he pays his rent tomorrow. This is not a minor problem, even though several currency promoters have been claiming for years that it's "just about to be fixed". It's kind of like the people that always claim that nuclear fission and unlimited energy is always just 10 years away. We've been waiting on both for a long time.
3) "Do it all online easily": in reality, it's a million times more convenient to use my credit card than bitcoin. Due to all the security holes, this supposedly online money can't even be *kept* online or someone will steal it from you. You have to store on USB drive to keep it safe… Really? And it seems we can go a week without another company getting hacked and losing millions of dollars that can never be recovered. And these are companies with the most technically knowledgeable security experts. They can't keep their cyber coin safe and yet the average Joe is expected to be able to do so?
3) "no fees": Bitcoin was sold to us for years as being frictionless, instant and free. But now that a significant number of people people are actually using it, suddenly the transaction costs of buying or selling anything in bitcoin has risen to $26 a transaction because all the computer power to run the blockchain is not free. Not exactly free... In fact prohibitively expensive. And this is just with a fraction of the planet using it and supposedly everyone is going to be in the future? Plus, it's only as "cheap" as it is right now because there's a glut of Chinese power plants not doing anything else. The government plans to divert these, and when it does, transaction costs will skyrocket.
4) "ICO's to raise money for everything": the idea behind ICO is that it's an unregulated way to raise money. This has turned out exactly as bad as it sounds. Pump and dump schemes similar to the Wolf of Wall Street, where investors are getting fleeced. Companies raising money and then disappearing with it. Companies creating vaporware and never doing anything with the money that they were supposed to, Etc. The SEC has warned ICO's that the party is over, and that they are going to start "enforcing" (i.e. putting people into jail) for these abuses.
The Real Estate Crowdfunding Review - 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Henri Meli:
The greatest thing about it is ... it is not regulated. In theory, No government intervention, consensus rules.
The biggest issue with this thing is ... it is not regulated. Just imagine a few wealthy and ill-intentioned powerful people (or even governments via third parties) discover a flaw in the system or "buy" enough control to manipulate it one way or another (yes, it is possible).
This is already happening with the FED, US Banking system and USD fiat currency :-)
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Ian Ippolito:
This sounds like a pitch from a cyber currency promoter. All of this is really far removed from anything that is even close to possible today, or in the near future and very well may never be possible.
1) "loan and invest in cyber currency": Cyber currencies always have been and continue to be too volatile to use as real money. No developer is going to take out a loan on a property in cyber currency when there's a great chance that the dollar value of what they owe at the end might be 1000-3000% more than it was today because of speculators. So no investor is going to loan money on a property in cyber currency, when it's possible the money they get back might be 40% less than what they thought it was because of a flash crash at the wrong time. Real currencies have central banks that do things to remove the volatility. By definition, cyber currencies never will.
2) "collect money from tenants in cyber currency": Same problem. The average Joe tenant is not going to put his money into cyber coins today, when it might go down 40% by the time he pays his rent tomorrow. This is not a minor problem, even though several currency promoters have been claiming for years that it's "just about to be fixed". It's kind of like the people that always claim that nuclear fission and unlimited energy is always just 10 years away. We've been waiting on both for a long time.
3) "Do it all online easily": in reality, it's a million times more convenient to use my credit card than bitcoin. Due to all the security holes, this supposedly online money can't even be *kept* online or someone will steal it from you. You have to store on USB drive to keep it safe… Really? And it seems we can go a week without another company getting hacked and losing millions of dollars that can never be recovered. And these are companies with the most technically knowledgeable security experts. They can't keep their cyber coin safe and yet the average Joe is expected to be able to do so?
3) "no fees": Bitcoin was sold to us for years as being frictionless, instant and free. But now that a significant number of people people are actually using it, suddenly the transaction costs of buying or selling anything in bitcoin has risen to $26 a transaction because all the computer power to run the blockchain is not free. Not exactly free... In fact prohibitively expensive. And this is just with a fraction of the planet using it and supposedly everyone is going to be in the future? Plus, it's only as "cheap" as it is right now because there's a glut of Chinese power plants not doing anything else. The government plans to divert these, and when it does, transaction costs will skyrocket.
4) "ICO's to raise money for everything": the idea behind ICO is that it's an unregulated way to raise money. This has turned out exactly as bad as it sounds. Pump and dump schemes similar to the Wolf of Wall Street, where investors are getting fleeced. Companies raising money and then disappearing with it. Companies creating vaporware and never doing anything with the money that they were supposed to, Etc. The SEC has warned ICO's that the party is over, and that they are going to start "enforcing" (i.e. putting people into jail) for these abuses.
Like I said, I am a full time real estate investor. I do not work in any related businesses and I’m not selling anything, only facilitating a discussion that I think is worthwhile. Feel free to take a look at my profile.
I guess we will see who’s right. FYI: Bitcoin is the most outdated and therefore highest fee crypto currency. There are 1,300 others, many of which with significantly faster transaction speeds and very low fees (ex litecoin).
You are incorrect about many of your comments above, but it’s not worth my time on here to educate you. Feel free to do your own research. Whether you like it or not, this IS happening and it will impact the industry you work in...
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Jon in parts of the us most tenant don't even have checking accounts and I think bitcoin would be a tad complicated for them.. heck many have never even been on an airplane..
but will be interesting
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Ian Ippolito:
This sounds like a pitch from a cyber currency promoter. All of this is really far removed from anything that is even close to possible today, or in the near future and very well may never be possible.
1) "loan and invest in cyber currency": Cyber currencies always have been and continue to be too volatile to use as real money. No developer is going to take out a loan on a property in cyber currency when there's a great chance that the dollar value of what they owe at the end might be 1000-3000% more than it was today because of speculators. So no investor is going to loan money on a property in cyber currency, when it's possible the money they get back might be 40% less than what they thought it was because of a flash crash at the wrong time. Real currencies have central banks that do things to remove the volatility. By definition, cyber currencies never will.
2) "collect money from tenants in cyber currency": Same problem. The average Joe tenant is not going to put his money into cyber coins today, when it might go down 40% by the time he pays his rent tomorrow. This is not a minor problem, even though several currency promoters have been claiming for years that it's "just about to be fixed". It's kind of like the people that always claim that nuclear fission and unlimited energy is always just 10 years away. We've been waiting on both for a long time.
3) "Do it all online easily": in reality, it's a million times more convenient to use my credit card than bitcoin. Due to all the security holes, this supposedly online money can't even be *kept* online or someone will steal it from you. You have to store on USB drive to keep it safe… Really? And it seems we can go a week without another company getting hacked and losing millions of dollars that can never be recovered. And these are companies with the most technically knowledgeable security experts. They can't keep their cyber coin safe and yet the average Joe is expected to be able to do so?
3) "no fees": Bitcoin was sold to us for years as being frictionless, instant and free. But now that a significant number of people people are actually using it, suddenly the transaction costs of buying or selling anything in bitcoin has risen to $26 a transaction because all the computer power to run the blockchain is not free. Not exactly free... In fact prohibitively expensive. And this is just with a fraction of the planet using it and supposedly everyone is going to be in the future? Plus, it's only as "cheap" as it is right now because there's a glut of Chinese power plants not doing anything else. The government plans to divert these, and when it does, transaction costs will skyrocket.
4) "ICO's to raise money for everything": the idea behind ICO is that it's an unregulated way to raise money. This has turned out exactly as bad as it sounds. Pump and dump schemes similar to the Wolf of Wall Street, where investors are getting fleeced. Companies raising money and then disappearing with it. Companies creating vaporware and never doing anything with the money that they were supposed to, Etc. The SEC has warned ICO's that the party is over, and that they are going to start "enforcing" (i.e. putting people into jail) for these abuses.
Ian, your comments remind me of Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase...
Jamie Dimon says he regrets calling bitcoin a fraud and believes in the technology behind it :-)))
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/09/jamie-dimon-says-h...
There are two kinds of people in the world.
There are those who are rigid. They resist change, continue the old ways of doing things, and eventually get left behind as the economy and the real estate business evolves.
Then there are those who are life-long learners. They are flexible and they adapt. They position themselves in the information flow, absorb information from as many sources as possible, and are on a never-ending search for new ways to improve themselves, their business, and their ability to provide a greater level of service to their customers and value to other fellow human beings.
Ignore this technological innovation at your peril my friend. The world will leave you behind.
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Jon in parts of the us most tenant don't even have checking accounts and I think bitcoin would be a tad complicated for them.. heck many have never even been on an airplane..
but will be interesting
Jay, FYI: I’m trying to “vote” on all your posts, but this site isn’t letting me...
If an investors tenants don’t have checking accounts, I would suggest that that is their first problem (unwise tenant selection). There are many companies working to make this much easier. For example: BitPay helps retailers accept bitcoin, they absorb the volatility and their system automatically converts it to USD for the retailer.
Yes, these are exciting times indeed! It’s an amazing time to be alive.
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
@Jon Q. As I have said many times on biggerpockets there is probably room for improvements in technology in real estate.
I simply do not find a blockchain technology to be a long term solution for an existing problem.
@Jerry Shen and others might disagree. To me quantum computing will be the end of the usefulness of the blockchain technology.
The progress being made by IBM and Alphabet seem to show that will happen fairly quickly as far as real estate time frame goes. There are also government funded projects world wide working to defeat blockchains.
If anyone wants to know more than 99% of investors in blockchain promoting companies read this.
- Real Estate Investor · San Francisco Bay Area, CA · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 36 votes8yToo many middleman in the purchase process and too much fees. The fact that buyer’s ability to get financing plays a huge part in the purchase process. I wish the typical home buying process would be much more transparent, eBay-style bid. Not that crypto can solve all that but here you go, for brainstorming.
- 8yJon Q.Investor · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 713 votesOP
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Jon Q. As I have said many times on biggerpockets there is probably room for improvements in technology in real estate.
I simply do not find a blockchain technology to be a long term solution for an existing problem.
@Jerry Shen and others might disagree. To me quantum computing will be the end of the usefulness of the blockchain technology.
The progress being made by IBM and Alphabet seem to show that will happen fairly quickly as far as real estate time frame goes. There are also government funded projects world wide working to defeat blockchains.
If anyone wants to know more than 99% of investors in blockchain promoting companies read this.
https://singularityhub.com/2017/11/05/is-quantum-c...
For what “problem”? There is no one problem. There are many inefficiencies in the real estate industry and many of these can be solved with innovative technologies. It is only a matter of time. If it saves time and money, it will eventually be done... and whether it’s blockchain or quantum isn’t that relevant... it’ll likely happen in stages and these are fundamentally different technologies developed to address different problems. Now one knows the future, but we all know or should know that this business is changing and that we must adapt of be left behind.
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