Should you Protect your Assets with a Prenup?
Real Estate Agent · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 105 votes
Should you Protect your Assets with a Prenup?
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Will GastonPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votesOriginally posted by @Account Closed:
@Chaz Mathias "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"
Just sayin' :)
I'd rather lose all of my assets than bring up a Postnup with my wife.
99 Replies
- 8yScott TitusPro MemberRental Property Investor · Lake Ozark, MO · Member since 2017 · 102 posts · 86 votes@Dylan Mathias Sorry for the delay, here’s what I’d say. I’m not a lawyer, BUT, I would assume if you moved to a new state PRIOR to getting married, it would be easy to amend it. For me, what I do for a W2 makes it where I can get transferred after a few years without a lot of notice. That’s what happened. Most all jurisdictions recognize postnups as being stronger and more binding, realistically, it’s smart.
- Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 46 votes8y
@Chaz Mathias, the thing is, when I got married, I agreed to take on my husband AND his assets (or in our case - his debts). I had more assets than my husband and it was my job in the beginning part of our marriage that enabled us to pay for his debts while maintaining my assets. But since then, I've had children and he now works more than I do, but having children was at the cost of my career trajectory. But that's an agreement we made. We've built our real estate up together, but I have done the majority of the management of that business (as I have the time and inclination to do so).
We don't plan to get divorced, but if we did, I'm not sure what the "fair" thing would be here. Should I get more because of my sacrifices? I just don't think a pre-nup can accurately predict your future with your spouse and what each person should be entitled to. In some cases, I would say a spouse would be entitled to assets earned before the marriage and in others, I wouldn't.
We live in a communal property state, so we do have some separate accounts that wouldn't be treated as communal property. But our bank accounts aren't separate, so even though I enabled us to pay off his debts, that may not be considered an a judgement since it was "communal".
Also, if my husband ever asked me to sign a post-nup, I'd laugh in his face. You can be assured I'd remember that moment if he ever asked for a divorce, too.
- 8yScott TitusPro MemberRental Property Investor · Lake Ozark, MO · Member since 2017 · 102 posts · 86 votes@Caleb Heimsoth It’s not the families business. Period. It’s yours and your future wife’s business. That’s the issue many people how with them, “how do I tell my family?” I was previously engaged and she was VERY against it, why? Because her mother told her that their family would, “take me for everything I had” if we divorced. Real assuring. That’s not love, that’s a threat. My wife was completely opposite. She had NO interest in my retirement, what I worked so hard to build prior to us getting together. Now everything we have done together is different and we split what we do together, and that’s in the prenup as well.
- 8yScott TitusPro MemberRental Property Investor · Lake Ozark, MO · Member since 2017 · 102 posts · 86 votes@Chinmay J. I literally could not disagree more, if the other person loves you they shouldn’t care about your assets and should be happy to sign it regardless. Love is love, regardless of what one spartmer has. Society has adopted this, “I deserve” mentality and so many people are only concerned in what is in it for them. Love and happiness is what makes a marriage (as well as a lot of work and mostly communication) but not my money or assets. (Sorry for multiple posts, I didn’t realize how far I was behind until I posted several times in a row.)
- Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 46 votes8y
Also, it should be noted that half of all marriages do NOT end in divorce, despite this common anecdote being repeated here. For a bunch of purported numbers people, y'all should really look at the stats before claiming that. The divorce rate has never succeeded 41% (and that's for only one specific cohort) and it's been falling in recent times. Chances are, if both you and your fiance are college educated and a bit older, you have an overwhelming chance of marriage success.
- Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Dylan Mathias:
I love the way you think through things!
@Chaz Mathias I totally agree with you that if someone comes in with more assets they should have every right to protect that.
Does anyone have any advise about weather putting your assets in a trust or LLC would be the best way to protect your assets on top of a prenup?
@Dylan Mathias @Karl B. @Chaz Mathias
Interesting! So you are saying "as long as it is convenient, we'll stay together but if things get tough, I'm taking my ball (assets) and going home"? I express my sorrow for you. Please rethink your approach. I told my bride that I was with her and for her "for better or worse" and that was 39 years ago. Kids and grandkids later, everything we have is shared and she has full access to all of my assets and I have full access to all of her assets. I never put my monetary assets before my love & affection & commitment to her. And she the same to me. There! It needed to be said. The only way to be successful in marriage is "right thinkin". What needs to be gotten rid of is "stinkin thinkin".
- Rental Property Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 133 posts · 171 votes8y
Originally posted by @Amy H.:
I’ve seen far too often people changing after divorce and becoming revengeful monsters.Exactly.
I know some people that have as many as 3 or 4 ex-wives or ex-husbands, including my own family members. What a joke!
It's really a mess, and their kids get dragged around like luggage. Sad!
- Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes8y
Originally posted by @Scott Titus:
@Chinmay J.I literally could not disagree more, if the other person loves you they shouldn’t care about your assets and should be happy to sign it regardless. Love is love, regardless of what one spartmer has. Society has adopted this, “I deserve” mentality and so many people are only concerned in what is in it for them. Love and happiness is what makes a marriage (as well as a lot of work and mostly communication) but not my money or assets.
(Sorry for multiple posts, I didn’t realize how far I was behind until I posted several times in a row.)
If you love the other person, you shouldn't be asking them to sign such ridiculous contracts..
I guess, we are going in circles here, aren't we? LOL
- Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 1 vote8y@Chaz Mathiasyes because what's yours is yours, and it's up to you to share for a life time
- Real Estate Agent · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 161 votes8y
@Account Closed
Hi Mike.
Did you and your wife bring around equal assets into the relationship? A Prenup should have nothing to do with how much you "love someone" or "planning for it not to work out". It is just a tool to protect the assets you have acquired before you met the person you fell in love with and married.
I will be by the side of the person I marry through better or for worse and when when we are married all of the monetary value or anything we accumulate will be equal and we will both have full access to it.
I have seen to many people get burned. I am very happy for you that it worked out for your wife and yourself but you look at statistics and 40-60% of relationships end it divorce. I am someone that only wants to be married one time in my life but if something happens or my wife leaves me because it does happen, yes I would like to protect the assets that I accumulated before the marriage.
I want to end it with this. Do you also believe that if you are going into your second married and you have 2 million in assets and the person you marry has nothing you should just say whats mine is yours?
- 8yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
If you are entering into a business relationship, then get a contract. Makes perfect sense. Also you should get a contract before the following:
1) A wedding gift: They are required to send a thank you note and a Christmas card
2) Nephews Birthday present: Should be required to call with a "thank you"and dog sit on a future weekend
3) Mother asking you to come over for Dinner: She shall be required to sign a contract that she will be making the "Coconut Pineapple upside down cake"
4) Elderly neighbor shoveling snow and you help: Should be required to sign a contract that they will wave every time you pass and inform everyone walking a dog that you are a "standup guy"
5) Wife makes dinner: Should have you sign a contract that you will be doing dishes every time she cooks.
6) A contract should be written stating who is tracking and paying mileage out of their paycheck for doctor visits as well as if she needs to help your parents, siblings, childhood friend and expected compensation. It's only fair.
7) If you have an old musclecar and it leaks oil in the garage, why exactly should she be responsible for that if you two get a divorce? Assuming you owned it before the marriage and you two bought a house, this car leaks in the garage why in the world should she accept losing the value of a garage floor upon breakup because of your dumb car?
8) Supposing she has a complete set of Flintstones collectible glasses before the marriage. You and your dumb friends are drinking Captain and Cokes out of them and Chad drops one on the cement floor and it shatters.Then you two get a divorce, why should she have to lose that because Chad has butter fingers?
Just some real things business associates need to make sure of, which is why partnership agreements are so hefty and businesses agreements are hundreds and thousands of pages long. Keep emotions out of marriage and make sure you are protected.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Dylan Mathias:
I love the way you think through things!
@Chaz Mathias I totally agree with you that if someone comes in with more assets they should have every right to protect that.
Does anyone have any advise about weather putting your assets in a trust or LLC would be the best way to protect your assets on top of a prenup?
@Dylan Mathias @Karl B. @Chaz Mathias
Interesting! So you are saying "as long as it is convenient, we'll stay together but if things get tough, I'm taking my ball (assets) and going home"? I express my sorrow for you. Please rethink your approach. I told my bride that I was with her and for her "for better or worse" and that was 39 years ago. Kids and grandkids later, everything we have is shared and she has full access to all of my assets and I have full access to all of her assets. I never put my monetary assets before my love & affection & commitment to her. And she the same to me. There! It needed to be said. The only way to be successful in marriage is "right thinkin". What needs to be gotten rid of is "stinkin thinkin".
"So you are saying "as long as it is convenient, we'll stay together." I never stated nor implied this. Let me know where you gathered this idea.
"I express my sorrow for you." Such a wonderful, loving heart you undoubtedly have. Thanks!
"The only way to be successful in marriage is "right thinkin". Oh, yes - right thinkin'! Of course!
"What needs to be gotten rid of is "stinkin thinkin". Yes. Gotta stay away from that stinkin' thinkin'! There's no place for that!
- 8yScott SmithPro MemberAttorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 932 votes
@Chaz Mathias asset protection attorney here. From a professional standpoint, it’s wise to draft a prenup to ensure you leave with what you entered the marriage with. This doesn’t HAVE to cause conflict with your partner but of course, it’s a tough conversation to have. Bounce it off of a qualified AP attorney or family attorney with AP experience to get the best agreement for you. Given that 50%+ marriages end in divorce, it’s just the smart move.
As a person with a heart, I understand this can be a difficult subject. Good communication is already vital to a relationship and will be important here. You want your spouse-to-be to understand what’s going on with the agreement. A conversation ahead of visiting an attorney together can go a long way so she doesn’t feel blindsided. If she raises helll or throws a fit in response to a calm, rational discussion of the issue...Well, frankly that would make me skeptical of her reluctance and motives for resisting the prenup. Of course, this is a sensitive subject and she has every right to voice her feelings on the matter. And it’s generally a good idea to let a woman express how she feels in a constructive manner. When giving your perspective it may be helpful to keep things as rational as possible. Point out that this is a worst case scenario, not something you expect to have to use. Keeping things as objective as possible should minimize the chance of arguments. Own your own feelings, be transparent about your motivations, and be open to collaboration with her and you may be surprised by a positive response. If someone truly loves you, they should not want any assets that they do not rightfully deserve.
You do not mention if you are in a community property state or if your spouse is also an investor. This is why you really should speak to an attorney licensed to practice wherever you plan to get married. There are ways to jointly own property that will protect your interest in assets while married as well. Land trusts can use a legal method called tenancy by the entireties for jointly owned property (again depending on state). You can also have a real estate attorney form a married couple LLC with an operating agreement that spells out terms you both agree to in any state.
I wish you the best of luck and congratulations. Hope you never have to use the agreement, but I do believe it’s wise to have one in place and carefully observe your loved ones reaction to the conversation. People can show you a lot about who they are during these conversations, and it’s better to have it ahead of time. Money is often a source of conflict in marriage even under the best of circumstances. So getting this potential argument out of the way before the marriage is probably the best course of action. Good luck to you and let us know how it goes!
- 8yJustin BrownBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Allentown, PA · Member since 2017 · 343 posts · 156 votes
I completely agree with @Nik Moushon, probably put it more politely than I would. Two are better than one and a three stranded cord is not easily broken. Marriage should strengthen you as a team to attack real estate together, not something that is just about each other with business aside. Also I think looking at one person having more "assets" than another is narrow minded. I already had a house and a business when my wife and I got married, but she was half way through a grad degree that was also a great investment. Technically I had more "assets" than she did, but as a team we have been able to build faster and stronger not thinking about what is hers and what is mine... its ours now. As your picture showes @Chaz Mathias you look very happy with your S.O. go attach real estate as a team!
Light House Realty LV4.971 Reviews - Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 25 votes8y
To me, I would first define what "significant" assets are. If there are truly significant differences in your assets, then it probably makes sense. However, I've seen friends argue back and forth with their fiances on this issue, one demanding a prenup and the other pissed off at the suggestion. Turns out, one of the couples was arguing for months over $30K! Totally pathetic.
Out of curiosity, can you get a prenup for significant debts? I can't imagine marrying someone with a six-figure student loan debt (that isn't a doctor) and that instantly draining my assets. That's worth having a contract over.
- Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 6 votes8yAs others have pointed out... going into a marriage with assets, you should 100% get a prenup. Getting married and choosing to stay married is an individual choice. I cannot, and would not if I could, force my wife to stay married to me. That said, what's yours is mine should be a corner stone of your marriage. Share everything. It isn't until your agreement is broken (divorce) that your prenup goes into affect. I dont think a prenup is saying you're dooming your marriage. Even from an emotional point of view.
Prenups require willingly speaking to a lawyer. Are you insane?!!
In all seriousness, my wife and I got one and I can tell you from first hand experience that it's weird. At some point during the process, perhaps at several or even many points throughout the process, you and your loving fiance will feel like you're getting divorced instead of married. Divorcing your fiance is weird.
Be warned. You will have to call not only one but TWO lawyers. One for each of you. And on top of that, these are divorce lawyers. Their job is to negotiate on your behalf, which means going against your wife. And her lawyer is against you and your lawyer. It's weird. Plus the damn weird thing was expensive, and we could have used that money elsewhere, like the honeymoon. So no, I don't recommend it. Divorce court is something to be avoided both before and after the wedding.
We're happily married 4 years, made 2 babies, and I hope we never need the prenup. If we do, I don't live with the illusion that having one will make divorce easy.I'm pretty sure divorce is messy. There are so many contributions to a marriage that can't be reduced to dollar amounts. What is it worth for my wife to put her career on hold and work tirelessly all day every day to raise our kids? Do we share our lives together, everything except our economic class? Marriage should probably be a complete joining at the hip. All or nothing.
"For better, for worse, for RICHER, for POORER, in sickness and in health, till death do us part." Serious Sh*t.
- Western Cape · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 1 vote8yI thought about it a lot since I am about to get married and will be bringing about 80k more into the marriage and a real estate company. However I have decided not to. I want my children to have a Mother, who can spend as much time with them as possible even if we get a divorce. And if I can succeed in making a great company perhaps neither her nor I have to work after a divorce. Tough subject though.
- Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes8y
@Karl B. @Chaz Mathias @Dylan Mathias
@Mike Cumbie Wins for the best post of the night! Love it. ;-)
@Scott Smith No offen$e, but doe$'t your po$t suge$$t you get paid to write contract$?
As for the common misconception that "50%+ marriages end in divorce" I'm not picking on you Scott, others have said that too but actually that number includes people who divorce a 2nd and 3rd time:
The question that should be asked: "How Many 1st Marriages End In Divorce" and we get a very much lower number
From a Family Law lawyer:
This graph looks at the age groups of those getting divorced:
Age Women Men Under 20 years old 27.6 percent 11.7 percent 20 to 24 years old 36.6 percent 38.8 percent 25 to 29 years old 16.4 percent 22.3 percent 30 to 34 years old 8.5 percent 11.6 percent 35 to 39 years old 5.1 percent 6.5 percent - Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 483 posts · 956 votes8y
When I first posted my success story on BP I mentioned that divorce is the biggest killer of net worth. My first wife walked away with half of everything I worked two jobs to build.
When I married my second wife, my net worth was about $800k hers was couple million. Her family wanted me to sign a prenup but she didn't want to. When we divorced we just agreed to take what we brought into the marriage.
With my current wife I was at 1 million net worth when we married. Her net worth was a negativite and I never considered a prenup because even if things went south I know how to make money.
Once you know how to make money a 50% reduction in net worth isn't that scary. The plus side now is after 24 years working together if we did divorce my net worth will still be millions.
- Investor · USA · Member since 2015 · 325 posts · 447 votes8y@Chaz Mathias To reply to your original comment. Business and marriage are on opposite ends of the spectrum. My wife works inside the home, I work outside of it. In the big picture what she does (raIsIng the kIds) is more important... I know this is a real estate “rah-rah” forum but at the end of the day, real estate is not that important. It is here today and can be gone tomorrow. Ask anyone who was around it 10 years ago...
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes8y
Originally posted by @Jason D.:
I wonder what the divorce rate is of people that have a prenup vs. those that didnt feel it was necessary?A national study reported in the NY Times stated that married couples who do not share their income and assets are 145 percent more likely to end up in divorce court.
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes8y
Originally posted by @Patrick Hall:
Wow....that is a devil of a question. Nothing changes a person like cash. Being a Christian, (hopefully that statement does not get this post banned or deleted!)
No intention to see this post go sideways, but I'm really intrigued by your statement. Why would you think that your reference to "being a Christian" might result in your post getting banned?
@Chaz Mathias ABSOLUTELY!
But I didn't. She even offered to sign one, but I told her I didn't need one, because I feel the same about marriage not being about money. I even somewhat recently added her name to the title of property I held before our marriage. Recently, I did tell her that I would give her everything and walk away if we ever divorced.
Although I said, that, she didn't divorce me (yet). She's actually far more into money than I am, because although I've been investing and growing my portfolio... I probably would have been too lazy to do this if I hadn't married a woman who didn't care about money as much as she does. I've certainly pushed myself harder to shut her mouth. We've been married 11 years now with two kids, and I'm okay to leave it all to them if it all goes south (except in the case of infidelity).
So I say... I'm an idiot, and you should protect your assets! But you always have the option to change your mind later if you really want.
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