MF owners how are you going to keep tenants with EV's

Multi-Family and Apartment Investing
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MF owners how are you going to keep tenants with EV's

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

Just musing ahead 10 years or so.

With states now mandating the phase out of Gas/Deisel cars  How are MF owners going to attract and keep tenants that will now have EV's in the next 10 to 20 years ? 

Of course home owners have no issue just put a plug in your home ..  And MF cant just put 2 or 4 chargers on the property. 

My initial thought is this could be a money maker for MF owners..  U buy the juice wholesale put in delivery system in your property set it up like Tesla Superchargers were 

the person charging pays for it on an app on their phone.  You make the delta.. 

Much like the phone systems used to work in hotels with the hotels making a nice spiff on guests when using a hotel phone.

or same thing with Power to other type of properties where the owner gets paid to provide the power . 

But something will have to give.  Its going to happen and it seems to me the MF owner might want to be thinking about this to attract tenants.. 

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Percy N.
Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 904 votes
4y

Agree with that. We have a couple ground up projects in the early stages and will be taking that into account when planning.

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  • Taylor L.
    Rental Property Investor · RVA · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    Chargepoint has all of it worked out. I've used their chargers many times personally and wouldn't have any issue adding them to a property. Right now the demand from tenants is concentrated at the higher end of the market, but I agree eventually it'll be fairly ubiquitous. Most of the major automakers have definitively said they're phasing out ICE vehicles.

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  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    4y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    Tesla will let you charge users right on the Tesla app if you install 7 or More chargers. (New feature in the last year or so.)

    I assume this will work with non-teslas as well. At least eventually if not right away. 

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  • Percy N.
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 904 votes
    4y

    There are companies that provide this and I even believe some do a revenue share with apartments.

    We had looked into this a while back for some of our properties.

    Not a bad revenue stream and a nice little perk to have new EVs charging near the clubhouse/office where new prospective residents can also see them.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Percy N.:

    There are companies that provide this and I even believe some do a revenue share with apartments.

    We had looked into this a while back for some of our properties.

    Not a bad revenue stream and a nice little perk to have new EVs charging near the clubhouse/office where new prospective residents can also see them.


     I got to think if EVs penetrate say 50% of the car market in the next 15 years  you would need a charger on at least every other parking spot ??  a few chargers by the club house wont work as cars need 2 to 4 hours to charge with home chargers. 

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  • Percy N.
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 904 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Percy N.:

    There are companies that provide this and I even believe some do a revenue share with apartments.

    We had looked into this a while back for some of our properties.

    Not a bad revenue stream and a nice little perk to have new EVs charging near the clubhouse/office where new prospective residents can also see them.


     I got to think if EVs penetrate say 50% of the car market in the next 15 years  you would need a charger on at least every other parking spot ??  a few chargers by the club house wont work as cars need 2 to 4 hours to charge with home chargers. 

     Jay, when we were looking at it a few years ago in a secondary market (this is where we specialize), the EV penetration was not that high. Moving forward we would just add it in the parking areas as well (the cost was not that high, just needs a good electrical source nearby).

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Percy N.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Percy N.:

    There are companies that provide this and I even believe some do a revenue share with apartments.

    We had looked into this a while back for some of our properties.

    Not a bad revenue stream and a nice little perk to have new EVs charging near the clubhouse/office where new prospective residents can also see them.


     I got to think if EVs penetrate say 50% of the car market in the next 15 years  you would need a charger on at least every other parking spot ??  a few chargers by the club house wont work as cars need 2 to 4 hours to charge with home chargers. 

     Jay, when we were looking at it a few years ago in a secondary market (this is where we specialize), the EV penetration was not that high. Moving forward we would just add it in the parking areas as well (the cost was not that high, just needs a good electrical source nearby).


     I understand today EV pentration is next to nothing but in 10 to 15 years  seems to me MF that wants to stay competitive will need more than a few chargers .. if you have say 50 units and ony 30% have an EV U need at least 15 charging cords  and then you would need an additional parking area etc etc.. 

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  • Percy N.
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 904 votes
    4y

    Agree with that. We have a couple ground up projects in the early stages and will be taking that into account when planning.

    1Reply
  • Brian BurkePro Member
    Investor · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    4y

    Another consideration, @Jay Hinrichs, is whether the electrical infrastructure at the property can handle it.  Add a couple of chargers, no problem.  Add 100 chargers to a 300 unit property and I bet there's no way the transformers and electrical infrastructure at the property can handle that.  Overhauling that would be a major (expensive) upgrade.  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Brian Burke:

    Another consideration, @Jay Hinrichs, is whether the electrical infrastructure at the property can handle it.  Add a couple of chargers, no problem.  Add 100 chargers to a 300 unit property and I bet there's no way the transformers and electrical infrastructure at the property can handle that.  Overhauling that would be a major (expensive) upgrade.  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.


     over night charging can be done with 240 ( like a cloths dryer) that runs on 30 amp or so..  So maybe not that big of a deal if your adding one extra dryer type circuit ever 3rd parking space.

    Logistics of course of all this is never much thought out by the politicians. 

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  • Cameron Del Valle
    Member since 2022 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    4y

    Just another thought, they do have submeters that can monitor the individual spots and you could charge back the total cost to the tenant if they are assigned spots.  My company does this and I get inquires every day now that electric vehicles are becoming or relevant than ever. 

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  • Bryce Nesbitt
    Property Manager · Berkeley, CA USA · Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 6 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Brian Burke:

    \Add 100 chargers to a 300 unit property and I bet there's no way the transformers and electrical infrastructure at the property can handle that.  Overhauling that would be a major (expensive) upgrade.  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.


     No, not a problem, because of EV load management.  Basically the EV charging gets spread out at times of day when there's capacity.

    Happy to set anyone in the SF Bay Area up with that.

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  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    1y

    We have a new administration coming in . I believe the new President will kill the EV mandate .

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Matthew Paul:

    We have a new administration coming in . I believe the new President will kill the EV mandate .


    ya I am a Tesla fan boy first to admit it I have owned  5 of them and was going to buy the cybertruck but I really needed a gas vehicle to get back into the fishing areas out here in the west that are 100 miles literally or more back into BLM land National forest or State lands. The west has a completely different scale of size than out east.. But for daily driver and any trips along any interstate I really like mine.. Any way I bought a Toyota 4 runner off road version for those fishing missions.
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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
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    Quote from @Bryce Nesbitt:
    Quote from @Brian Burke:

    \Add 100 chargers to a 300 unit property and I bet there's no way the transformers and electrical infrastructure at the property can handle that.  Overhauling that would be a major (expensive) upgrade.  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.


     No, not a problem, because of EV load management.  Basically the EV charging gets spread out at times of day when there's capacity.

    Happy to set anyone in the SF Bay Area up with that.


    I dont know about other EVs but teslas you set the time of day or night you want to start charging.. So like here in Oregon were the Juice goes down to 4 cents a kilo watt at 10pm ( low use time).  You plug in whenever set your timer the car starts to charge right at 10pm and with just the standard charger Tesla has takes about 4 to 5 hours to fully charge so by 2 to 3 am your good to go and as I have calculated my energy costs. My average fill up is 50 kilowatts so that  $2.00  Two bucks for 200 miles of range with no restriction on speed or fast starts at the line :)  Not every state is the same at our place in Vegas you pay one rate no matter what time of day and that is I think about 12 Cents a kilowat so about 7 bucks to fill up for 200 miles of range. lets say 20 MPG at 3 bucks  thats 30bucks for gas for same range.
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  • Bryce Nesbitt
    Property Manager · Berkeley, CA USA · Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 6 votes
    1y

    Sure, but you can't depend as a MF owner on everyone setting their car timer to match the building needs.  Thus, the EV load management system.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Bryce Nesbitt:

    Sure, but you can't depend as a MF owner on everyone setting their car timer to match the building needs.  Thus, the EV load management system.


    I get it.. for homeowners this is a no brainier for apartment dwellers this is still going to be a challenge going forward.  The other thing I meant to mention with EV in CA. and I am not sure if its this way in the Bay Area on 880 or 101 or 280 or 680 but the HOV lanes in LA if you have an EV you can run in the HOV lane with one person.. That to me would make owning a EV and commuting in LA a must have. :) Not sure if its like that in any other bad traffic metro I know OR does not have it and I dont think its  that way in Seattle either
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  • Bryce Nesbitt
    Property Manager · Berkeley, CA USA · Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 6 votes
    1y
    The issue seems to be that apartment owners don't want to be bothered, even though EV charging is an amenity like a tanning booth, pool, deck, hot tub, laundry area or whatever.

    Or apartment owners unrealistically view EV charging as a revenue source, though the margins are just too thin.

    On the ground EV charging for multifamily is practical, even in retrofit, it's just not simple as there are so many options and tradeoffs.  The market has not yet settled out to 2 or 3 major players.  The loss is for renters, who don't have the freedom to take advantage of EVs the way single family owners can.  I've set up MF EV charging for a number of San Francisco Bay area properties.  It works, no monthly fees, no credit cards, no hassle.  It's just not yet widespread.

    The case study of hotels "hotels making a nice spiff on guests when using a hotel phone" is a fine case study.  Those fees got so ridiculous, that there was tremendous pressure among travelers to avoid the phone.  The user pool got smaller and smaller so the hotels jacked the fees up, so the user pool got even smaller and more pissed off.  By the time AirBnB became real I was ready to never set foot in a hotel again.
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  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    1y

    If this is a “large” complex, you contact Tesla and they will help you plan, install, and setup the whole thing. (Last time I heard it was 2 or 3 chargers.). They’ll take care of billing and send you your money. Then it will become a profit center. (I’m sure chargepoint will as well.)

    The problem is it won’t work unless you have a charger for every unit or have a charge for parking in the spot. My local dmv has 4 free charging spots. The average car is parked in each spot for 20-30 hours. It’s being used by people who can’t or won’t charge at home. There’s no penalty for the cars sitting in the spots after they have fully charged. I bet the government thought people would plug in while visiting the DMV and then leave, that never happens. At 11-22mph if you’re there for an hour you get a 20-40 cents worth of electricity. 

    The local casino just replaced free charging with 50c/kwh (4-10x the home price.) when they figured out people were just leaving their car there to charge while they went home. Now their 4 spots just sit empty. 

    @Jay Hinrichs DM me if you need help setting up cheap EV charging in Vegas. It’s 5 cents from 12-7a. I pay something like 8c/kwh all other times except 6-9p June-Sept. If you look at NVenergy.com under plans. You’ll see it listed as Time Of Use (TOU) “with EV option”.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Bill B.:

    If this is a “large” complex, you contact Tesla and they will help you plan, install, and setup the whole thing. (Last time I heard it was 2 or 3 chargers.). They’ll take care of billing and send you your money. Then it will become a profit center. (I’m sure chargepoint will as well.)

    The problem is it won’t work unless you have a charger for every unit or have a charge for parking in the spot. My local dmv has 4 free charging spots. The average car is parked in each spot for 20-30 hours. It’s being used by people who can’t or won’t charge at home. There’s no penalty for the cars sitting in the spots after they have fully charged. I bet the government thought people would plug in while visiting the DMV and then leave, that never happens. At 11-22mph if you’re there for an hour you get a 20-40 cents worth of electricity. 

    The local casino just replaced free charging with 50c/kwh (4-10x the home price.) when they figured out people were just leaving their car there to charge while they went home. Now their 4 spots just sit empty. 

    @Jay Hinrichs DM me if you need help setting up cheap EV charging in Vegas. It’s 5 cents from 12-7a. I pay something like 8c/kwh all other times except 6-9p June-Sept. If you look at NVenergy.com under plans. You’ll see it listed as Time Of Use (TOU) “with EV option”.


    thanks Bill I will look for that when I asked 4 years or so ago they told me NO.
    what Tesla superchargers do to keep people from squatting.. is you have 5 minutes from when you are filled up and then if you stay longer you get charged $ 1.00 a minute and if you really abuse it they will turn your service off.. .. Supercharger system is far and away best system out there.. there is no POS charge system its on your credit card and automatically billed.. my first 3 Teslas were grandfathered in and I NEVER paid to charge however all the early buyers still get the free charging.

    From what I heard Tesla actually charges land owners to put the chargers in.. The reason is there is usually a resturant or other retail shop there and now you have customers you would never have that WILL spend money while they wait 20 to 30 minutes to charge.
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  • Bryce Nesbitt
    Property Manager · Berkeley, CA USA · Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 6 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Bill B.:

    The average car is parked in each spot for 20-30 hours. It’s being used by people who can’t or won’t charge at home. There’s no penalty for the cars sitting in the spots after they have fully charged. I bet the government thought people would plug in while visiting the DMV and then leave, that never happens

    That's solved with an "idle fee".  Just about as popular as BlockBuster Video's Late Fee.

    There's a completely different movement in MF charging called "low power L2".  You give every spot a plug, so it no longer matters if someone parks all day or all week.  PM me for details.

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  • Benjamin AakerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Brandon, SD · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Hey Jay, this is one of the few nice things about those Midwest winters. Up here we often have an outlet from each tenant's panel going right out to the parking area for engine block heaters. It's only 110V but would be nice on the property advertisement for potential tenants. Less EVs in the cold, I know, but thanks for the idea!

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  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    1y

    Finally. "The completely different movement" I suggested 5 years ago is catching on? The same thing EV owners that live in an SFR have been doing for 10 years?

    A 14-50r plug was always the preferred method, especially before the world woke  up and switched to the Tesla charging standard. But unless you’re building new. It’s probably still a bad deal for the owner to install in more than about 10-15% of the assigned parking spots. Try it in about 5-10% of the spots charging an extra $25-$50/mo (Assuming tenant pays for electricity at that plug.)and see if you get any bites. If you do, they pay for themselves. If they don’t, you didn’t waste 10x as much money. 

    Ps. There are cool new chargers that plug in right behind the power meter. (Like the Tesla backup switch.) They require almost zero labor and don’t care if you breaker box is full or at it’s amperage limit. I wouldn’t invest too much in old technology right before demand creates improvements. 

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