Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 84 votes
I ran a search around the forms and didn't seem to be able to find a forum on the strong long-term tenant proof flooring. I am looking to update some units built in the 90's in Washington State and sick of carpet. In the end, the most important thing to me is how long it will last. I don't really intend to ever sell these units, so if I spend a little more now, that's fine. I won't be installing myself either - I will hire it out. I would prefer something indestructible (if that exists?). I have never installed any sort of non-carpet flooring other than vinyl for a cheap fix to make current tenants happy or to get renters in fast. I'd really prefer to install the entire house with the same thing (all three bedrooms and bathrooms, kitchen, etc) but maybe that's not the best. From what i read it seems like Allure Ultra or Armstrong may be a good bet. Any thoughts on how I or anyone else reading this should proceed with flooring? Greatly appreciate any feedback!
Edmond, OK · Member since 2012 · 456 posts · 270 votes
11y
If the house is on a concrete slab (as in Oklahoma/Texas), I would not install anything for flooring, and instead look into getting the concrete floor stained/epoxy coated.
My next option is porcelain tile using a modern rectangular tile instead of square. Lowes/Home Depot run special pricing on floor tile, $2/sft.
I run a housing authority with 100 homes. When originally built in 2009 the subfloor was made of OSB (UGH) and the tile in the kitchen and bathroom was glued directly to the subfloor. Carpet was installed in the rest of the home. People were literally falling through their floors.
We ripped out the carpet and replaced it with laminate wood. We get whatever Lumber Liquidators has on sale for .39 or .49 per sq ft. We've been using it for over a year now and it has held up phenomenally well.
As for the kitchens and bathrooms (though not on topic) we are replacing the subfloor with plywood and placing full sheet vinyl in the kitchen and bathrooms. Too soon to see how durable it will be.
New public housing construction with subfloors of OSB? Yuk. There must be some days when you are pulling out your hair. I'm actually a fan of the better quality vinyl sheet goods or commercial vinyl in smaller kitchens and baths. I like seamless floors in areas with moisture and around toilets. Tile grout is permeable and needs maintenance to remain truly clean-able and hygienic. But that's me.
Zach: Please post pictures when you are done, and of what you decide to do with the stairs and transitions. The Allure Ultra is more of a commitment in both cost of product and experienced labor for installation. That being said, in your rental market it might be just thing. Looking forward to an update!
One flooring choice for bathrooms and laundry not mentioned here is linoleum {I am referring to real linoleum here and not the incorrect use of the noun in reference to sheet vinyl}
It's available in a variety of colours/patterns, is organic and naturally anti-bacterial, and lasts well.
Placing the laminate hardwood over the OSB in the living areas has made all the difference in the world and I have been pleasantly surprised at the durability of the inexpensive flooring.
The vinyl looks really good but it's too soon to tell how long it will hold up.
Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 84 votes
11y
This is all great. Thank's guys. I was at Lumber Liquidators yesterday and the guy showed me a product he compared to allure with a 50 year warranty, and it was $2 a SF compared to allure $3/SF (over 1300-1600sf, were talking some $!). There will be no transitions, i ripped out any false floors over the sub-flooring. The only break will be the stairs which I purchased Cap A Tread flooring for. I will indeed send out photo's! It's going to be quite expensive but in the end I hope worth it. I am going to Air BNB this unit for the summer and already have someone registered for 1 month @ over double what I would charge on monthly rent. Figured I might as well try it for the summer.
Side question to my initial question. I am going up to my cabin today and was going to start ripping out those floors which are some random laminate flooring. The cabin has settled quite a bit. I am going to try and reinforce some of the foundation and level it back out but in the end it's just in an area that will keep settling. Besides carpet, I am thinking Allure Ultra up here too as it seems to be flexible with the single membrane but would anyone else advise against that? It's only 200sf so not much to do at all.
Plano, TX · Member since 2013 · 226 posts · 156 votes
11y
we use glue down vinyl planks. I wanted to go the allure route, but too many people told me the seams were coming apart after a while (haven't considered the ultra, as it is just too expensive). The allure ultra is much thicker than what we use so it will look a lot nicer. But we're paying $1.60/ft installed, and it looks ok considering the property. If a single plank or area gets damaged, just peel up and glue in new one(s). Suitable for wet areas too...
I am in going to be into this $4.10 installed so you killed it in a price comp dang. This is sort of a test for me. I am so grossed out by carpets I had to try something else.
Plano, TX · Member since 2013 · 226 posts · 156 votes
11y
you've probably got a much nicer floor! This stuff is really thin, so prepping the floor is critical. I'm using it in C class apartments, but I've seen it in a lot of B class properties too.
we use glue down vinyl planks. I wanted to go the allure route, but too many people told me the seams were coming apart after a while (haven't considered the ultra, as it is just too expensive). The allure ultra is much thicker than what we use so it will look a lot nicer. But we're paying $1.60/ft installed, and it looks ok considering the property. If a single plank or area gets damaged, just peel up and glue in new one(s). Suitable for wet areas too...
Tom: Can you please give the glue down vinyl plank product/brand you are using? I'm avoiding the regular allure because of the adhesive strip issue. I've used other, more expensive adhesive strip vinyl (Konecto, Armstrong) and have had no issues so far. But the reviews on the regular Allure deter me. Glue down with adhesive makes sense for some applications.
This is all great. Thank's guys. I was at Lumber Liquidators yesterday and the guy showed me a product he compared to allure with a 50 year warranty, and it was $2 a SF compared to allure $3/SF (over 1300-1600sf, were talking some $!). There will be no transitions, i ripped out any false floors over the sub-flooring. The only break will be the stairs which I purchased Cap A Tread flooring for. I will indeed send out photo's! It's going to be quite expensive but in the end I hope worth it. I am going to Air BNB this unit for the summer and already have someone registered for 1 month @ over double what I would charge on monthly rent. Figured I might as well try it for the summer.
Side question to my initial question. I am going up to my cabin today and was going to start ripping out those floors which are some random laminate flooring. The cabin has settled quite a bit. I am going to try and reinforce some of the foundation and level it back out but in the end it's just in an area that will keep settling. Besides carpet, I am thinking Allure Ultra up here too as it seems to be flexible with the single membrane but would anyone else advise against that? It's only 200sf so not much to do at all.
If you got a less than level floor or one that's still settling, I'd not use either Allure product. The seams that are tight on install will open up a bit with any movement of the subfloor or foundation. Even a 1/16th of inch openings will start to drive you crazy. Unless you're planning a full level and new ply subfloor, I'd go with a vinyl sheet good with full adhesive on only 200 square feet.
Plano, TX · Member since 2013 · 226 posts · 156 votes
11y
The company I'm using to install it must be bringing it from China by the container, because the boxes have their name and logo on it. A few property management companies I know of are doing the same thing. The planks alone are .79/ft, but I'm buying them from one of those PM companies, so I don't know where else to get it. I saw something similar at a flooring store locally, but it was much more expensive. As I mentioned before, this stuff isn't much thicker than sheet vinyl, but it's much tougher.
The company I'm using to install it must be bringing it from China by the container, because the boxes have their name and logo on it. A few property management companies I know of are doing the same thing. The planks alone are .79/ft, but I'm buying them from one of those PM companies, so I don't know where else to get it. I saw something similar at a flooring store locally, but it was much more expensive. As I mentioned before, this stuff isn't much thicker than sheet vinyl, but it's much tougher.
To clarify: the product is vinyl planks and they are being stalled directly to the subfloor with full spread adhesive?
Plano, TX · Member since 2013 · 226 posts · 156 votes
11y
Correct, they are 6 X 36 "planks," but that term is almost misleading. They're only a little bit thicker than sheet vinyl. We typically have to float the floor with a concrete-type leveling compound (old, uneven floors), then adhesive is applied on top of that.
I think there are a few pictures on exponentialpropertymaterials.com but it doesn't show the individual planks; just a completed unit.
Zach: floors look great! How long did it take your guy? What kind of molding are you planning on?
(You've got such nice units. Have you considered changing out the ugly number decals on the exterior doors for something a little more elegant? Maybe some wooden or metal numbers. Super cheap to replace, but upgrades it from elementary school class room to "home".)
@K. Marie Poe - I hadn't but that's a great idea, it would make it look much nicer especially since I will be Air BNB this unit!
Then I'm going to suggest that you paint both doors a matching accent color, like navy. The entry is not strong, especially for vacation rental photos. I'm assuming the house number is elsewhere on the building. Can you put only the unit ID on the door (A or B)?
Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 84 votes
11y
@Account Closed
- Check out the doors: http://1drv.ms/1P6XF2e - painting them a darker blue made them look fantastic. I ordered nice lettering, that's on it's way as well. Thanks for the suggestion, really a simple, cheap, AWESOME fix!!
Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 84 votes
11y
I am finding the Allure Ultra floors I installed scratch easier than I anticipated. Scenarios: 1) If I throw the ball on them with my labs (puppies: 9 months and 24 months old) - they slide all over the floor and it's not phased 3) vacuuming with shop vacuum, mopping up after using shop vac (I believe particles vacuum did not collect), moving washer/dryer (doing it carefully), etc it seems to scratch very easily. It's a bit odd! I have mixed feels over it and I haven't even let a tenant at it yet. I am doing another unit over in the coming months and will probably try another product. Appreciate everyone's help/comments/suggestions getting to this point - very nice!
Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2013 · 20 posts · 5 votes
11y
I install decorative concrete flooring for investors in the Phoenix area. From my personal and professional experience.. staining an existing slab of concrete and sealing it is one of the longest lasting, forgiving and economical solutions. Concrete floors are becoming very mainstream here. If the concrete is in good shape, it looks fantastic. The keys to a good finish is the right surface preparation ( diamond grinding with a finish at 120 grit to 150 ), the right stain ( typically water based that looks consistant with color and finish), and the right sealer. We use a water based polyurethane with a matte finish. Epoxies tend to scratch easily, and with high traffic leave wear patterns. Nice thing is, if a tenant wrecks the floor... a good sanding with a floor machine and a new clear coat is all that's needed. Cost per ft including grinding ( if you have the equipment ) is maybe $.50 per ft. Retail from a contractor will be $2-4 per ft depending on area and concrete condition. Sorry for no paragraphs.. for some reason it won't let me.
While I like finished concrete, it's not a very friendly floor in places with real winter, unless the slab is over a conditioned space or {perhaps if} there is sufficient insulation under the slab and it has radiant heat.