Multifamily Courses - Brad Sumrok or Neal Bawa?
Rental Property Investor · NJ · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 6 votes
Hi everyone,
I am looking for some advice on which Multifamily course to take.
My Goal- planning to purchase a 5-20 Unit property in TX, FL or AZ (NOT 50+ units). I will need to place this under property management as my current job does not allow me to actively manage any real estate. Looking to finance by myself without syndications for now. From a course I am looking to gain knowledge to identify, vet, purchase and place the 5-20 Unit property under management for stabilization.
The courses I’ve come across are Brad Sumrok’s course and Neal Bawas Bootcamp. I am unsure which one fits my above stated goal. Can anyone help give me direction?
Thanks in advance for any insight or help.
@Account Closed
So my brother/partner, @Chris Levarek , and I often get asked how can someone get into large multifamily investing?
They love the better economies of scale, they love the tax benefits, they love the idea of not having to be an expert on it all but just being able to focus and excel in one area, while also working on a team and contributing toward a unified goal.
But.... How do I get started in syndications for the purchase of 50, 100, 200, plus unit properties?
So after a long talk we realized that there are 3 common ways people get started... and become successful, and we've actually used 2 of these methods... somewhat effectively.
The three most common ways to get into large multifamily investing and apartment syndications.
1. Pay for a mentorship - Pros - get access to their network, professionals, and advice. Cons - Often a large deposit is needed, no guarantees on deals though - still have to do the work
2. Go it alone, self educate, learn through trial and error. Pros - Bigger returns possible, lessons learned are likely learned from making mistakes, and therefore will be remembered better. Cons - Higher risk of mistakes, failure, takes even more work, and slower to scale
3. Partner with an experienced team on an active deal, either as an active investor (General Partner) or a passive investor (Limited Partner). Pros - learn through their deal, earn returns while you learn, see everything develop in real time. Cons - still have to do your due diligence on the team, the market and the asset itself (but above all you MUST know and trust the team - cannot say enough about this - the numbers and market don't mean squat if the team cannot execute).
We actually started with #2 in October 2018, buying small residential multifamily deals - duplexes and quads. Then in Jan 2019 we completed (stumbled through0 our first syndication on our own. We quickly realized that partnering was going to help us scale much much faster, and allow us the benefit to learn from their experience, as well as pick an choose what we liked from their processes/system of acquiring a large property and executing such as massive business plan. So when a larger and more experienced syndicator saw what we were doing and asked us to partner on their next deal... well it just made sense. And now we're closing on a 220 unit, with another 2 lined up behind it.
Hope that helps.
I haven't been to the Bawa bootcamp, so I can't speak about it. He does provide a bunch of free content that is valuable, but I don't know if you could really start from the beginning and buy a multi-family property just with his free videos...much of it is intended for people already in the game. The bootcamp is a few thousand dollars I think, so I would definitely recommend getting references from others who have attended.
I can speak about Sumrok, because I am a student, and yes, I do think the program is a great way for someone without experience to become a multi-family investor. You should check out one of his weekend events because it's a cheap way to learn all about the program, and meet existing students to hear about their experience, without a high-pressure sales pitch.
While I can recognize the obvious benefits of owning property on your own without partners, why do you want to keep it below 20 units? Is it because you can only afford to spend a certain amount on a property? The reason that Sumrok students buy larger properties is that professional management is much more feasible above 60 units. It is very hard to do it economically with only 20 units.
How do these classes compare to Jake/Gino, Michael Blank, and others? I would like to consider one, but don't want to go through any sales pitches from multiple people, just want a straight-forward outline of what's included, and the cost of the investment. I'm serious about this, as I have already done multifamily deals, but want to add more to my knowledge.
@Account Closed We went from 6 units to 173 units...extremely possible with the right mentor! We invested $30K in our first mentor (one of them mentioned in this stream and it was super challenging to be successful for many reasons) - we quickly cut our losses and found the group we're with now which is what helped us close 173 units in our first few months of joining. The silver lining in our poor experience with the first mentor is that it really helped us identify what we needed in a mentor and a group to be successful. Happy to chat about it if you'd like! Feel free to reach out! Best of luck in your multifamily journey
@Account Closedundefined
@Keeley Hubbard
That is awesome. I have heard and seen examples of people saving many years (needed from experience) by learning proven models from mentors. I plan to do the same.
@Rodney Robinson YES - exactly! I have no problem paying for a mentor if I know it's going to save me years of headache and a lot of money from making amateur mistakes. Especially in the apartment syndication world...when you're dealing with investor capital, there's little to no margin for error. It's a small world and you can't afford to partner with the wrong person or mess up the deal. We had 2 major things happen to us in our first syndication that probably could have sunk us if we didn't have a mentor with a lot of muscle to back us up and help us get through it!
@Account Closed as people's opinions of mentors will vary and provide you maybe with a direction, I'd recommend attending multiple events to get a feel of the program and mentor that best suites your needs. This will require an investment of time and money on your part but will greatly pay off. I know you already know this but just because someone has experienced success under one mentor, doesn't mean that success will come to you. When you attend the events, interview current students, not the sales team or the host. You will find that many people in this space will be up front with you. Ask them "What are some strengths of this program?" "If there was one thing different you'd like to see, what would it be?" Every conference I've attended sponsored by different mentors has a different vibe. I think it's important to find one where not only the students have success but one that resonates with you.
@Mohammed F. Neither. Those bootcamps are usually garbage with like one or two good bits of information. Everything you want to know is already in free podcasts and other local investors willing to share their knowledge. And YouTube.
I have to agree with Eric Johnson. If these mentors are so great at real estate investing, they should focus on running their funds, raising capital, finding deals etc..
There have been numerous posts on here about people paying $25k -$50k on “Bootcamps” or “Programs”. Those funds could be better utilized for a downpayment.
Next time your at an event, tell them you’ll give them an equity stake in your deal for $25k vs. giving them $25k cash. That way they will have a financial incentive for making sure the deal works out. If it doesn’t, then they lose the $25k off equity, but none of their own funds. see if they go for that. If they are so confident in you and their skills, it shouldn’t be an issue.
Good luck
@keeleyhubbard Wow, that's a big jump from 6 to 173 units! Congrats! We're currently at 4 units looking to acquire our next property. Did you know you wanted to make such a big leap before connecting with a mentor or did your mentors help you change direction?
@Eric Johnson and @Kevin K. do you guys own large multifamily? I don't mean to come off like a jerk, but if you don't actively own large MF, how can you bast a coach or bootcamp?
@Todd Dexheimer no one needs to pay $5,000+ for real estate coaching. Some of these coaches charging 25k? It’s a joke. Just like the wholesale and flipping courses. The narrative and point is self-explanatory.
I am finding Neal Bawas material to be extremely helpful so far. Very impressive.
Thank you everyone for your input above!
@Todd Dexheimer no one needs to pay $5,000+ for real estate coaching. Some of these coaches charging 25k? It’s a joke. Just like the wholesale and flipping courses. The narrative and point is self-explanatory.
Do you know anyone that paid $25k or more to go to college? They came out with a degree and a chance to make $80k/year and climb the corporate ladder. Real Estate investors have a chance to create an 8, 9 and 10 figure net worth and make 6-7 figures/year. They shouldn't pay for an education and to have someone pushing them and leading them?
Do what you want and what is right for you. If going at it alone works, then do it. If you need a mentor, then do that. It's not 1 size fits all.
@Eric Johnson and @Kevin K. do you guys own large multifamily? I don't mean to come off like a jerk, but if you don't actively own large MF, how can you bast a coach or bootcamp?
Mainly because I’ve seen way too many people get taken advantage of in this industry. If these guru’s are so great why not offer the $25,000 - $50,000 fee as equity in the deal? Then if anything goes south or the guru doesn’t pick up his phone when there is a real problem no one makes anything...
Furthermore, if they are making the returns they claim with their systems. Why not just focus on raising capital and finding more deals?
To answer your question, no I don’t own large multi-family buildings. However, I have appraised well over 100 of them in the NYC area. I always ask how they got started. I’ve yet to hear “well after spending $50k at a real estate boot camp, I knew all I needed to know and jumped right in”
However, I’ve read a ton of stories on this forum of people getting ripped off by guru’s and sold systems.
@Eric Johnson and @Kevin K. do you guys own large multifamily? I don't mean to come off like a jerk, but if you don't actively own large MF, how can you bast a coach or bootcamp?
Mainly because I’ve seen way too many people get taken advantage of in this industry. If these guru’s are so great why not offer the $25,000 - $50,000 fee as equity in the deal? Then if anything goes south or the guru doesn’t pick up his phone when there is a real problem no one makes anything...
Furthermore, if they are making the returns they claim with their systems. Why not just focus on raising capital and finding more deals?
To answer your question, no I don’t own large multi-family buildings. However, I have appraised well over 100 of them in the NYC area. I always ask how they got started. I’ve yet to hear “well after spending $50k at a real estate boot camp, I knew all I needed to know and jumped right in”
However, I’ve read a ton of stories on this forum of people getting ripped off by guru’s and sold systems.
That's odd because half of the owners I know started in some program. It seems to me the most vocal anti-coaching posters in this forum are people who don't own large MFH at all. I'd love to hear from someone who's joined one of these programs and considered themselves ripped off/scammed. Feel free to a post a link if you know of an instance.
@Eric Johnson and @Kevin K. do you guys own large multifamily? I don't mean to come off like a jerk, but if you don't actively own large MF, how can you bast a coach or bootcamp?
Mainly because I’ve seen way too many people get taken advantage of in this industry. If these guru’s are so great why not offer the $25,000 - $50,000 fee as equity in the deal? Then if anything goes south or the guru doesn’t pick up his phone when there is a real problem no one makes anything...
Furthermore, if they are making the returns they claim with their systems. Why not just focus on raising capital and finding more deals?
To answer your question, no I don’t own large multi-family buildings. However, I have appraised well over 100 of them in the NYC area. I always ask how they got started. I’ve yet to hear “well after spending $50k at a real estate boot camp, I knew all I needed to know and jumped right in”
However, I’ve read a ton of stories on this forum of people getting ripped off by guru’s and sold systems.
That's odd because half of the owners I know started in some program. It seems to me the most vocal anti-coaching posters in this forum are people who don't own large MFH at all. I'd love to hear from someone who's joined one of these programs and considered themselves ripped off/scammed. Feel free to a post a link if you know of an instance.
Exactly! And why not take equity in a deal? What happens when the person signs up for the course and doesn't take action. I can imagine offering a course for nothing up front and equity in a deal when they get one. I'd sign up for that! No risk for me on the front end, with a chance of getting a deal done!
@Michael Le I’m not anti coaching. I believe in genuine mentorship and an equitable relationship. There is a difference between siphoning off of the hopes and dreams of people who sign up to these courses and genuine mentorship. It’s odd because from all of the multifamily buildings I’ve financed, none of my clients have said they started in a Neil Bawa boot camp or similar. These stunts are the same as wholesaling and flipping courses. It’s a tranche of up sells with little or no value, that is my entire point, yet I’m being attacked for informing people to take caution and think twice for handing over any dollars for real estate education.
This is the age of information and connection, where you can connect to local investors and develop a mastermind, something much more powerful and helpful than a paid for boot camp. Don’t know how I can be more clear about this.
It’s odd because from all of the multifamily buildings I’ve financed, none of my clients have said they started in a Neil Bawa boot camp or similar.
I'm not sure. But I know many dozens of owners that started this way. Probably because I did too and that's the circle I've surrounded myself with?
As for genuine mentorship, etc... that's great if it happens. It's ideal. But if someone wants to get started and your recommendation to them is, go out there and find a mentor, how often does that happen? Just go out there and find someone who will take you under their wing simply because they like you.
@Michael Le possibly. Proximity of network is strong depending on the path one chooses. I don’t think this discussion has a point anymore, so I’m gonna wish everyone the best and respectfully bow out. Lol
@Account Closed
So my brother/partner, @Chris Levarek , and I often get asked how can someone get into large multifamily investing?
They love the better economies of scale, they love the tax benefits, they love the idea of not having to be an expert on it all but just being able to focus and excel in one area, while also working on a team and contributing toward a unified goal.
But.... How do I get started in syndications for the purchase of 50, 100, 200, plus unit properties?
So after a long talk we realized that there are 3 common ways people get started... and become successful, and we've actually used 2 of these methods... somewhat effectively.
The three most common ways to get into large multifamily investing and apartment syndications.
1. Pay for a mentorship - Pros - get access to their network, professionals, and advice. Cons - Often a large deposit is needed, no guarantees on deals though - still have to do the work
2. Go it alone, self educate, learn through trial and error. Pros - Bigger returns possible, lessons learned are likely learned from making mistakes, and therefore will be remembered better. Cons - Higher risk of mistakes, failure, takes even more work, and slower to scale
3. Partner with an experienced team on an active deal, either as an active investor (General Partner) or a passive investor (Limited Partner). Pros - learn through their deal, earn returns while you learn, see everything develop in real time. Cons - still have to do your due diligence on the team, the market and the asset itself (but above all you MUST know and trust the team - cannot say enough about this - the numbers and market don't mean squat if the team cannot execute).
We actually started with #2 in October 2018, buying small residential multifamily deals - duplexes and quads. Then in Jan 2019 we completed (stumbled through0 our first syndication on our own. We quickly realized that partnering was going to help us scale much much faster, and allow us the benefit to learn from their experience, as well as pick an choose what we liked from their processes/system of acquiring a large property and executing such as massive business plan. So when a larger and more experienced syndicator saw what we were doing and asked us to partner on their next deal... well it just made sense. And now we're closing on a 220 unit, with another 2 lined up behind it.
Hope that helps.
@Account Closed, sorry I didn't tag my previous comment to you correctly. Newbie here!
@Deanna Wallace Thank you!! After we closed on the 6-unit we quickly realized it was going to be very difficult to scale from a Property Management & cash up front perspective so we started looking into larger multifamily and found the right mentor (ours specializes in 100+ units). Doing larger MF allows us bigger returns on our capital, less headache because we hire out property management, and really awesome tax benefits! I think that every real estate strategy can be profitable...it's about finding what fits your lifestyle and your financial goals and for us it's apartments! :)
@keeleyhubbard Wow, that's a big jump from 6 to 173 units! Congrats! We're currently at 4 units looking to acquire our next property. Did you know you wanted to make such a big leap before connecting with a mentor or did your mentors help you change direction?
I noticed a couple interesting observations in this thread. Seems the two anti-coaching posters in the thread are in California and New York. No offense to those states, but there may be a reason @Eric Johnson and @Kevin K. don't run into any of the coaching groups out there. Every one I've ever seen says DO NOT buy in California or New York because of the anti-owner/tenant friendly nature of the laws in those states.
If you can raise money, qualify for the experience requirement and net worth requirement on the loan, etc, maybe you don't need a mentor. Otherwise, you can't get into the MF game without a team and it seems like a lot of people have done that by joining a mentor program.
@Sean Spitzer I finance deals nationwide and work in many different markets. I am well aware of the status quo stigma toward certain metropolitan areas and or general aggregate geographical regions..
@Sean Spitzer I am not anti coach, mentor, partnership etc. I am not for people shelling out tens of thousands of dollars for sub par value and people to take advantage of their “expertise” to peddle this type of fake mentorship.
I never said I’m “anti” anything, yet everyone who reads my comments takes it that way. Surround yourself with good people, connect with other knowledgable investors and ask questions.