Multifamily Courses - Brad Sumrok or Neal Bawa?
Rental Property Investor · NJ · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 6 votes
Hi everyone,
I am looking for some advice on which Multifamily course to take.
My Goal- planning to purchase a 5-20 Unit property in TX, FL or AZ (NOT 50+ units). I will need to place this under property management as my current job does not allow me to actively manage any real estate. Looking to finance by myself without syndications for now. From a course I am looking to gain knowledge to identify, vet, purchase and place the 5-20 Unit property under management for stabilization.
The courses I’ve come across are Brad Sumrok’s course and Neal Bawas Bootcamp. I am unsure which one fits my above stated goal. Can anyone help give me direction?
Thanks in advance for any insight or help.
@Account Closed
So my brother/partner, @Chris Levarek , and I often get asked how can someone get into large multifamily investing?
They love the better economies of scale, they love the tax benefits, they love the idea of not having to be an expert on it all but just being able to focus and excel in one area, while also working on a team and contributing toward a unified goal.
But.... How do I get started in syndications for the purchase of 50, 100, 200, plus unit properties?
So after a long talk we realized that there are 3 common ways people get started... and become successful, and we've actually used 2 of these methods... somewhat effectively.
The three most common ways to get into large multifamily investing and apartment syndications.
1. Pay for a mentorship - Pros - get access to their network, professionals, and advice. Cons - Often a large deposit is needed, no guarantees on deals though - still have to do the work
2. Go it alone, self educate, learn through trial and error. Pros - Bigger returns possible, lessons learned are likely learned from making mistakes, and therefore will be remembered better. Cons - Higher risk of mistakes, failure, takes even more work, and slower to scale
3. Partner with an experienced team on an active deal, either as an active investor (General Partner) or a passive investor (Limited Partner). Pros - learn through their deal, earn returns while you learn, see everything develop in real time. Cons - still have to do your due diligence on the team, the market and the asset itself (but above all you MUST know and trust the team - cannot say enough about this - the numbers and market don't mean squat if the team cannot execute).
We actually started with #2 in October 2018, buying small residential multifamily deals - duplexes and quads. Then in Jan 2019 we completed (stumbled through0 our first syndication on our own. We quickly realized that partnering was going to help us scale much much faster, and allow us the benefit to learn from their experience, as well as pick an choose what we liked from their processes/system of acquiring a large property and executing such as massive business plan. So when a larger and more experienced syndicator saw what we were doing and asked us to partner on their next deal... well it just made sense. And now we're closing on a 220 unit, with another 2 lined up behind it.
Hope that helps.
Not against a mentor, it just wasn't the route we took - but I do recommend finding a good and experienced team to partner/join with.
My Brother @Chris Levarek and started out in 2018 on our own, BRRRRing small multifamily deals (duplexes) and then scaled into small syndications, 13 units and 16 units. But this year we will have closed on a 220 unit and a 150 unit in OH and TX respectively and that is largely due to us building a relationship and partnering with an existing syndication team.
Either purchase your seat at the table through a mentor ship program, go it alone/figure it out, or find a way to add value to an existing team and learn/earn that way.
Hope that helps.
I’m not sure how you formulated that. Because my state isn’t landlord friendly they’re no coaching programs here? Our dollars can’t cross state lines? Mentorship programs focus on various investment strategies.
Anyway, I’ve run into many mentorship programs and know of people who has lost a lot, within my state. Spending over $25k in order to get material and guidance which is maybe worth $1k.
The point I was trying to illustrate was what, @Ashton Levarek has confirmed. People pushing guru programs on here as the cure all or only option without seeing if they could accomplish more making legitimate connections on their own and building a team. Personally I much rather spend my $25,000 on professionals; accountants, lawyers, realtors or appraisers. Getting a professional opinion on my deal, company structuring, tax issues, a 3rd party value opinion, etc. That’s my opinion and I’m sure others will differ.
Moreover, as I stated before. If these programs are so great why not structure to fee to the mentor in a different manner. Giving 25% of the fee in cash up front and 75% in equity. Therefore, a $10,000 program the mentor will receive $2,500 up front, so if the mentee decides it’s not for them, the mentor still makes something for their time. If the mentee has actual issues with the deal the mentor will have a reason to follow up in order to look out for their equity stake. I feel a structure like this could help eliminate confusion on both sides.
That’s my opinion on the matter and thank you Ashton for your service to our country.
@Ashton Levarek your story is super inspirational! Thank you for sharing and giving me the mojo I needed today. :)
@Christopher B. and @Account Closed Look at where you want to go and take advice from those who have done it. There are a few people giving you advice that don't own real estate. You will always have those types of people. They often mean well, but just get in your way.
A mentor is not a cure all. They won't do it for you and won't teach you 100% of what you need to know. A mentor is a guide, a network and a resource. With the right mentor you will avoid some mistakes and get to your destination faster if you are willing to put in the effort.
Without a mentor, everything you want to achieve is possible. All the information is out there and with the right attitude and determination, you can get to your goals.
Yes, it’s much wiser to take advice from someone who sells a coaching program than people who don’t own large multi-family properties who will just get in your way. @Todd Dexheimer you sell a multi-family coaching program, of course you are pro guru. You have a financial interest in whether or not he chooses to go that route. All I was trying to explain to him was to explore all his options before linking up with a guru and paying $25k. My opinion is completely unbiased, it makes no difference to me what he does and will have no impact on my wallet if he chooses to pay for coaching or not. As @Ashton Levarek and @Chris levarek have shown, there is other options.
Good luck with your decision,
so..trying to get back to the original subject , Neal or Brad?
Interesting thread...
On Neal or Brad. I don't know much about Brad's program, but I know he has a large multifamily portfolio in Texas and has lots of students in his program. Some that I know personally who are successful investors. I have had Neal speak at my events and on my show. He is very insightful and data-driven. I have heard great things about his content.
The reality is you have to gain clarity on what you are seeking to determine which program is best for you. Which leads to the debate in this thread. The reality is you can "learn" how to invest in multifamily for FREE (or at least at a very low cost)! Yup, I said it. If you want training, all you have to do is go through books, podcasts, BiggerPockets, videos, etc.
So why pay? Because in a sea of free information, it's hard to develop an actionable plan. So if someone takes the time to share a process, it makes life easier and the chance for success more probable. The challenge that people have with paying for education is many of the programs just sell the knowledge and don't help people actually implement the knowledge to become an investor. The same way I can tell you how to lose weight, but it doesn't mean that in 6 months you'll be 20 pounds lighter. The knowledge is not usually the main issue investors face. It's not easy to find a deal and a good educator would make sure a student understands the effort it will take to find a solid deal. But the student has to put in the work and follow the plan. If I tell you to eat certain meals to lose weight and you keep eating donuts and burgers, who's at blame? Mentors are not magicians.
Are there vultures that prey on the hopeful knowing they can't actually help those people get results? Yes, and I can't stand that approach or model. The biggest thing with paying for coaching is making sure you get value and you are clear on the agreed-upon outcomes from going through the program. Knowledge is one thing, but that won't make you an investor. Make sure you get the resources, tools, connections, and opportunities to get in the game if you are going to pay for help. I would also want to know if the coach had a coach themselves. Meaning do you believe in coaching or is this just a revenue source for you? If you believe in coaching, you should have a coach yourself.
And be honest, if you need a coach who will hold you accountable, get someone who has that approach and not just some great tips. The greatest athletes in the world have coaches to reach their full potential. If you can buy a 20-unit by yourself, imagine what you could do with the right coach. It's about you and your potential and finding the right resources to help you unlock it.
I've attended many real estate Bootcamps over the years including most recently, Neal Bawa's Apartment Magic Bootcamp. I can say with certainty that Bawa's education has been some of the best I've experienced. His Bootcamp was packed with wall-to-wall content and zero upselling to the next level like you might find in other training programs. I'll preface by saying that I do have a few years' syndication experience as I've syndicated 5 apartment deals so far. However I'm always looking for more education and networking opportunities to improve myself and my skills. I was drawn to Neal Bawa's training because we are looking to scale our business to the next level as a syndication company.
The techniques that Neal teaches during his training provide so much value to a wide range of investors from new investors getting started, to multi-decade real estate veterans as well as passive and active investors alike. The trainings provided are recorded and students are given access through a portal to each training session so students can watch and listen to each training segment over and over. The student portal also provided many additional resources to help students find/evaluate markets, underwriting tools, case studies, marketing materials, and so much more. The content and resources in the student portal alone were worth the price of admission.
Lastly, as many people on BiggerPockets would probably agree, real estate investing is a team sport. Bawa and his team went above and beyond to foster networking and relationship building among the students and encouraged collaboration outside of his Bootcamp. Since my Bootcamp, I've built many quality relationships with many of my fellow students that are both active and passive investors looking to work with me and invest in our future projects. The networking in his Bootcamp is one of the biggest reasons I'll be attending his Apartment Magic Bootcamp again in the future.
@Keeley Hubbard I would love to hear about the course you took! I am also looking to jump from small multis to commercial! Just PM’ed you
I think the value is in the networking and experienced team - this is the true value in any of these mentorship programs. Multifamily investing is a rather elementary activity that any number of books can get you up to speed on. I personally like the Michael Blank Mastermind group.
@Keeley Hubbard
That is awesome. I have heard and seen examples of people saving many years (needed from experience) by learning proven models from mentors. I plan to do the same.
Yes! We have been going through several different sales calls with different mentors- we plan on choosing one this week! Had a call with a jake/gino rep yesterday and will have a call with the think multifamily team today.
Mohammed,
I have taken Neal Bawa's bootcamp twice. Once virtually and once in person. I have not taken Brad Sumrok's courses.
I am a big fan of Neal's teaching platform. Here is why.
Neal teaches a very analytical approach to decision making, without becoming so analytical that one gets lost. He has a terrific ability to take "data" and distill it into a meaning narrative that is compelling and de-risks decision making. This relates to everything he teaches, and for me, has been helpful as it relates to topics like the economy, covid, markets, neighborhoods, demographics, etc.
Anna Meyers, who is Neal's Partner, is also is a big benefit. She is heavy on the quant side and focused on underwriting. She is presents in a clear and straightforward manner making underwriting very digestible. What is important about this is that a student obviously needs to understand underwriting, but one also needs to be able to explain their underwriting to people who may not be underwriters.
On the Asset Management side Neal and Anna have a lot to offer. One of the things that differentiates them is their use of technology and overall process to drive value at the Asset Management level. There is a bunch to talk about here.
Lastly, they are very relatable people who are engaging. I hope this helps. Best, Peter
PS- Make sure to buy an apartment building that is big enough to achieve enough scale where a good PM can support you.
If you are self-motivated there are plenty of ways to find the information available online including BiggerPocket/Books/Youtube/Podcasts. What you need help with is to stay focused and take action. That's where Neal and Anna's data-driven action plan is different than what you get in any other boot camps/coaches.
Neal's Q3-2020 Virtual Bootcamp helped me tremendously to boost my multifamily investment career. I met like-minded people at the Bootcamp and partnered with them in many deals as both LP and GP. Good Luck.
I have not been to Brad Sumrok's course, so I cannot comment on which is "better". However, I just attended Neal Bawa's Multifamily Bootcamp. I am a real estate lawyer, a multifamily investor, and a principal in a family office. I also have presented live and virtual seminars and webinars at investor organizations around the country and have seen many of the "best" speakers during the 40 years I've been in the business, some of who have also taught multifamily investing. In my opinion, Neal's Bootcamp is the best that I've seen. The best research, the best content, the best value to the attendees, the best event structure to maximize attendee engagement, and the best presentation. For anybody who also presents seminars and/or webinars, attending this event is like getting a Master Class in how to do it right.
He will give you the tools to find a deal- absolutely! Remember, you don't want any deal, you want a good deal that you can execute in a "safe", manner.
However, if you are referring to a 1:1 mentor program where a you work with a mentor to find a deal I do not believe Neal provides mentorships.
In my opinion, if you are very interested in MF and want to take a deep dive I would absolutely do Neals bootcamp as a first step to finding your first deal as a GP. You will have the tools to be effective in the marketplace. I do not think the bootcamp cost is that significant so it is a reasonable investment with a high return. Further, his bootcamp is beneficial to GP's, LP's, Cap Raisers, etc.
When the NB's bootcamp ends many people will form teams to look for a deal. This was a fluid process when I did it so get to know others during the bootcamp. Many of these teams go on to buy many properties.
You may also decide to get a 1:1 mentor at this point or at some point following. It really depends on what your goals are. I ended up getting a mentor 12 months later because I was not getting the traction I personally wanted. I was very reluctant to get one for a bunch of reasons (pride, cost, etc), but have found that doing so has been very helpful. If you decide to get a mentor you will need to evaluate the different platforms they are on, but at the end of the day it will be your relationship and compatibility with the mentor that matters most. Based on what I have experienced with my current mentor I would have borrowed the money to pay for the mentor. But keep in mind that I basically had to overwork myself for 12 months without progress to come to the conclusion that a mentor would benefit me and that I was ready for a mentor.
Former Sumrok student and Bawa advocate here.
When you're buying into the Sumrok mentorship, you are not simply buying education. The education is pretty good for sure, but you can get that with a lower tier of membership, or just through someone or somewhere else. What you are buying is an entire apartment syndication eco-system. You are buying education, individual coaching, broker relationships, DEALS AND INVESTORS.
You read that right. he brings the two hardest components for any fledgling syndicator: deals and investors.
That being said, I've made contact with a bunch of other students who have seemingly paid all of that money, gotten all of that access, and did nothing with it. I mourn their wasted investment.
On the flip side, I've personally invested a ton of money into other successful Sumrok student's deals with good results.
It's not a magic bullet! You still have to do the work.
Neal is a great educator. I've had the privilege of living close to his schools, so I've been able to attend many of his events in person, and I do have money in his deals, and I'd do it again. I haven't gone through any of his formal trainings however.
Final thought: if you are actually planning on investing in real-estate and paying for mentorship, make sure that you are getting actual coaching on YOUR SPECIFIC DEALS and not just generic education. I've written about that before, but I can point you to my thoughts on the matter.
Hope that helps!
James Kojo
I have to agree with Eric Johnson. If these mentors are so great at real estate investing, they should focus on running their funds, raising capital, finding deals etc..
There have been numerous posts on here about people paying $25k -$50k on “Bootcamps” or “Programs”. Those funds could be better utilized for a downpayment.
Next time your at an event, tell them you’ll give them an equity stake in your deal for $25k vs. giving them $25k cash. That way they will have a financial incentive for making sure the deal works out. If it doesn’t, then they lose the $25k off equity, but none of their own funds. see if they go for that. If they are so confident in you and their skills, it shouldn’t be an issue.
Good luck
Absolutely agree, though I will like to see what mentor takes up on that offer.
@Todd Dexheimer no one needs to pay $5,000+ for real estate coaching. Some of these coaches charging 25k? It’s a joke. Just like the wholesale and flipping courses. The narrative and point is self-explanatory.
Do you know anyone that paid $25k or more to go to college? They came out with a degree and a chance to make $80k/year and climb the corporate ladder. Real Estate investors have a chance to create an 8, 9 and 10 figure net worth and make 6-7 figures/year. They shouldn't pay for an education and to have someone pushing them and leading them?
Do what you want and what is right for you. If going at it alone works, then do it. If you need a mentor, then do that. It's not 1 size fits all.
"They shouldn't pay for an education and to have someone pushing them and leading them?"
No, they shouldn't. A college degree is absurd enough, but it is a prereq to get the interview for that corporate job. They'll take a clown who screwed around for 4 years (plenty of my former fraternity brothers) who has a degree rather than a self educated guy who actually knows his *** from a hole in the wall.
The corporate world won't deal with you without paying for the education. The REI world will. In REI paying for real estate education is not a prereq for securing a loan, finding a deal, closing, renovating, placing a tenant, ect.
To each their own. You certainly can learn on your own and don't have to pay for any sort of education. I know people that are successful without that in every industry. I am sure that the two of you never paid for any formal education. I do find it funny that everyone that I know that bashes paying for content does not own much real estate.
Eric, the reason that you never hear from your clients that they took a course, is likely because you've never directly asked what course they took or what mentor they hired. I've done business with thousands of people and they don't tell me where they got their education from prior to doing business.
Yes, it’s much wiser to take advice from someone who sells a coaching program than people who don’t own large multi-family properties who will just get in your way. @Todd Dexheimer you sell a multi-family coaching program, of course you are pro guru. You have a financial interest in whether or not he chooses to go that route. All I was trying to explain to him was to explore all his options before linking up with a guru and paying $25k. My opinion is completely unbiased, it makes no difference to me what he does and will have no impact on my wallet if he chooses to pay for coaching or not. As @Ashton Levarek and @Chris levarek have shown, there is other options.
Good luck with your decision,
I never promoted my coaching services and don't make money with anyone choosing to buy Neal or Brads programs.