Going to school to learn how to do it all myself. Realistic?

Sacramento, California
Land & New Construction
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Going to school to learn how to do it all myself. Realistic?

Jessica James
Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2022 · 37 posts · 31 votes

After a pipe broke in the attic of my two story multi-home, I faced a lot of issues with my general contractor and plumber in particular. Leaks still prevalent in pipes and refusing to fix them, contractors worker and his family squatting in my home without my permission, and lazy work done to finishes of the home. It was a nightmare to say the least and I had to figure out a lot of stuff to fix the problems myself.

I like to think of myself as someone who isn't afraid of getting down and dirty and doing the hard work. Someone who wants to know everything I can about the things I love, including real estate and home the  systems in a home work. As a new Realtor and someone who plans to buy and house hack many more multi-units in the future, I'm thinking about instead of using my GI Bill for a Masters, perhaps getting certified in multiple trades to further my education on electricity, plumbing, HVAC, and building. Even if I'm not the one who originally has to build a home from the ground up, I want to know the basics of how to do things myself or at least know enough to check and make sure things are done correctly. 

Any thoughts or suggestions from anyone who feels like they have a great amount of knowledge about what goes into a home and any licensing they suggest is the most important? Or how to go about getting certified? Personal experiences dealing or feeling similar to me after a bad experience with several "professionals"?

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y

I admire your spunk, but taking a bunch of classes is virtually worthless in the construction trades. You need to be shown the right way(s) to do things and then do them over and over and over. And there are too many parts of too many trades, no one can learn them all.

Way smarter for you to just wait and put together a good stable of contractors that are good and reliable and that you can trust. At the same time, take little side projects on yourself (tile a bathroom/install cabinets/frame a new partition wall) and learn from doing. Eventually you can be a 'jack of all trades - master of none' like the rest of us....'

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  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Hi Jessica,

    Check out this unhappy situation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejpz9wKRgK8




    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    I admire your spunk, but taking a bunch of classes is virtually worthless in the construction trades. You need to be shown the right way(s) to do things and then do them over and over and over. And there are too many parts of too many trades, no one can learn them all.

    Way smarter for you to just wait and put together a good stable of contractors that are good and reliable and that you can trust. At the same time, take little side projects on yourself (tile a bathroom/install cabinets/frame a new partition wall) and learn from doing. Eventually you can be a 'jack of all trades - master of none' like the rest of us....'

    10Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jessica James:

    I want to know the basics of how to do things myself or at least know enough to check and make sure things are done correctly. 

    And you're not going to get enough experience to 'make sure things are done correctly' by going to a school for a year or two. That won't teach you how to wire a house or build a dormer or set the pitch on a sewer line.

    Not trying to just bash your idea, but it's not realistic....


    4Reply
  • Dwayne Poster
    Investor · Van Isle · Member since 2021 · 455 posts · 226 votes
    4y

    Check your local technical college for a course in building your own home. A good one will have an overview of ALL aspects of construction, and will include financing, scheduling, and most important, contracting.  I am an electrician and industrial mechanic, both required four years of work, school. Same for the other trades.

    3Reply
  • Jessica James
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2022 · 37 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff how about then maybe getting a license as an inspector? So at least I know what to check for? Also, what does it take to become a general contractor? I mean I would guess you would need to know an ample enough about most things before you can get that license?

    I def want to do on the job training as well, I know that obviously I can’t really legitimately learn just in a classroom or by taking a few courses

    1Reply
  • Jessica James
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2022 · 37 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    @Dwayne Poster thank you so much! I feel so motivated to learn! :)

    1Reply
  • Chris Martin
    Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    In the current environment (recession, stagflation) it may be that trade skills are more important than investor skills, and combining these skills has always been a plus. I would say your intuition is correct. Best of luck to you. In the long term, you will do fine. 

    3Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jessica James:

    @Bruce Woodruff how about then maybe getting a license as an inspector? So at least I know what to check for? Also, what does it take to become a general contractor? I mean I would guess you would need to know an ample enough about most things before you can get that license?

    I def want to do on the job training as well, I know that obviously I can’t really legitimately learn just in a classroom or by taking a few courses


    I was GC licensed in CA for 35+ years. You need to have provable experience at a journeyman level or higher for minimum 4 years, have someone with the same license classification sign for you, and pass a very difficult 4 hour trade and law exam (pass rate of 1 in 12 or 8%).

    All the studying in the world is great for you and I suggest taking in all you can get. Also get your hands dirty as often as possible, don't be afraid to tackle anything, and don't worry about screwing up because you will........ you learn most from your mistakes. :-)

    Taking a Home Inspector course is fine, but it doesn't teach you any trade skills, just how to see when things are wrong.

    4Reply
  • Jessica James
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2022 · 37 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience and give me a little more insight about what a general contract is etc. I’m def starting from the bottom of the bottom in experience but in my time in the Navy working in helicopters, I at least know how to use most tools haha I feel hopeful and just need to figure out what my next steps are :)

    2Reply
  • Jessica James
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2022 · 37 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    Thanks @Chris Martin! The older I get the more I look back and wonder why I didn’t get skilled in a trade earlier!

    1Reply
  • Reggie Powell
    Realtor · Woodland, CA · Member since 2020 · 33 posts · 43 votes
    4y

    @Jessica James

    Hi Jessica. I’m also a realtor/investor. In Woodland. Here’s my advice; Do not go to school. In my opinion, a masters is a waste of time. I hire contractors who do good work. It comes down to work ethic and pride in their craftsmanship. I do not care what school they went to or who they learned from. I’m sure you know many people who are “book smart” but can’t change a tire on their car. That’s just the world we live in now.

    If you want to know how things work and what to expect when you hire someone, I 100% think you should do the work. Learn how to tile by tiling your own floor. Same with flooring, paint, electrical, etc. learn by doing it. But, and this is a big but… figure out what you are best at. What you enjoy doing most. And sub out everything else. Our most valuable asset is time. You need to be a master at your time management. You don’t need a masters in any school subject. Teach yourself how to do stuff to make yourself a better manager of the work being done and stop there. Focus on what makes you money, not saving money by spending your time doing something you can hire someone else to do.

    4Reply
  • Jessica James
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2022 · 37 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    @Reggie Powell perfectly said! Thank you for your response! 

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jessica James:

    @Bruce Woodruff thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience and give me a little more insight about what a general contract is etc. I’m def starting from the bottom of the bottom in experience but in my time in the Navy working in helicopters, I at least know how to use most tools haha I feel hopeful and just need to figure out what my next steps are :)


     You have the right attitude and that is 90% of this game. Take your time and learn to do things very well, not just ok. There is a pride in craftsmanship that cannot be found elsewhere.....

    2Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jessica James:

    Thanks @Chris Martin! The older I get the more I look back and wonder why I didn’t get skilled in a trade earlier!


     You were in service to our country, and thank you for that!

    3Reply
  • Que Tran
    Real Estate Agent · Scranton PA · Member since 2019 · 93 posts · 98 votes
    4y

    @Jessica James

    Never stop learning. It's great that you're talking classes. I've learned a lot through YouTube, and asking tradesmen to teach me how to do, while they are doing it. I'm always on Pinterist and FB groups to share ideas and tricks. It's more fun, when it doesn't feel like work. Enjoy!

    2Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    @Jessica James Bruce is right, the only way to become competent in the trades is a lot of time apprenticing under experienced tradespeople. I was a contractor before becoming a Realtor and getting a GC license is nothing like getting your RE license (so much harder, takes a lot more time and definitely not worth it unless you plan to use your license as a contractor). A home inspectors course might be worth it as a starting point but will just give you a basic understanding of what to look for that is done wrong. Some of the things I hear from inspectors though… oh man… almost all the competent ones I know did 20-30 years in the trades prior to becoming an inspector. There’s really no way around putting that time in. Just work with better contractors and learn by doing as you go, problem solved.

    3Reply
  • Olivia Radziszewski
    Realtor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2019 · 274 posts · 191 votes
    4y

    I completely understand where you are coming from! It is definitely a good idea to get a grasp of how to do those things, however in my experience I just would work along side my contractors and I learned a lot. You get the gist of the way that many things are meant to be done. Something that I also had to learn (and definitely am still learning) is where my time is best spent. Is your time best spent taking classes to learn to do that? Or would your time be better spent trying to close real estate deals to fund your next deal. I am not saying that you shouldn't familiarize yourself with contracting, however,  you cannot be all of the people in your team. (You technically can, however that is not efficient in the long term.)

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    Ask yourself this. What makes a successful real estate investor? Are most successful investors skilled tradespeople? I would guess not. The skills that really make you a good investor are financial skills and people skills. There are people running multimillion dollar businesses who would not fix their own leaky sink. I personally hardly know which end of the screwdriver goes in the screw. It doesn't stop me from being an investor. Now granted, I dont do flips. But even if I did, I would much rather have contractors I trust so I dont need to check on everything they do. I would focus on the overall plan, budget, schedule, etc.

    3Reply
  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Jessica James since you are just starting it can be enticing to try and learn everything. You will find that your most valuable resource, time, is in short supply and you run out of it quickly.

    You need to think about what your specific goals are. If it’s to be a great RE investor you don’t have time to be a great RE investor and a great contractor. A great RE investor will know a great contractor and work to build a good relationship with him. That contractor will bring their years of experience to the table so you don’t need to know everything.

    Your time is better spent finding great people than trying to be great in every topic. There is too much to learn and not enough time. Sounds like you had a bad experience with crappy subs. That was the first 5 years of my career. Now I have the best subs in the industry and those are problems of the past.

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  • Billy Smith
    Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 719 posts · 313 votes
    4y

    I have the time and the drive to juggle several rehabs at the time ,I show up look around inspect  I get my hands dirty never shy away from  that if possible plus  I enjoy the hard work .Some times stuff still falls through the cracks not often lots of the time it's a language issue they did not grasp or reverse . With time you get much better at the game .

    3Reply
  • Ronald Grams
    Realtor · Bucks County, PA · Member since 2020 · 21 posts · 16 votes
    4y

    @Jessica James eh.

    Trade schools are fine but the learning is in the experience and the doing. Getting multiple estimates and talking to contractors is the best way to go. YouTube is also a great source for learning, although beware of who’s advice you take on YouTube.

    I’m a big fan of Home RenoVison DIY.

    4Reply
  • Allan Smith
    Contractor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    I got my general contractors license this year, mostly so I could pull permit in build houses. I also got tired of contractors being awful at their job. I am scaling up a construction company due to the high demand for the work.

    I don't think going to all the trade schools is going to benefit you as much as you think it will. You might be better off taking Dale Carnegie classes or something to help you find and vet good contractors. If you are looking to build a construction company, then you'll at least need a gc license and most gc's do not have any other trade licences. What it comes down to is no matter what you are trying to accomplish, you will have to rely on people to do the work correctly . You can hire those types of people without investing tons of time and money into learning trades.

    3Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    If you are a "Robust" type, go hire on as a framer and work that 5 or 6 days a week for 90 days, and (if you make it past the first half day without quiting) you will know if you have any sawdust in your blood.

    Some questions to ask yourself re what you bring to the table (currently):

    [1]  Do you own any of the following, table saw, circular saw, sawzall, pneumatic or 22 nail gun, sledge hammer, jack hammer, planner, wood lath? Ever used any of them? (for 8 hours/6 days a week?)

    [2]  Do you know the difference between a 16 penny nail and a roofing nail and a finishing nail?

    [3] Can you lift and dump 80 LB bags of concrete for 3 or 4 hours a day--5 days a week?

    [4] Do you know what a Rafter is, what a Header is, ever heard of a Lam beam?

    [5] Which is better Festool or Ryobi? Why? Have you ever heard of either?

    =======

    There is no school that teaches this that I know of--contracting is ("Skilled" Manual Labor) for a profit.

    Some trades have apprenticeships, but that can take years of hard labor, in the hot sun, or in the cold snow.

    I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying to get experience in so many trades will take until you retire.

    If you want to be a GC you need to know how to bid and how to supervise subs (meaning getting the quality work done that you expect them to do).

    The reason I gave you some questions to ask yourself is contractors I've met seem to have (an interest) in this type of stuff that goes beyond just working with it, like Nascar Fan has interest in all of the Nascar details. the engine, the pistons the drivers weight, new go fast gadgets and etc...

    But if it's what you want to do--I say go for it--but go for it with your eyes open.

    Here is a video about pneumatic framing nail guns (they weigh about 8 lbs loaded + a bulky long rubber air hose)

    Is this something you would want to hold 8 hours a day? Framing contracts do. And that's just one trade.

    I think you can do it ((IF)) you are willing to put in the time to learn and can handle the manual labor aspects of it.

    But as many others have said, it's probably not the best way to get things done for investment properties.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZem3AHlU5w

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3bUwziQ2qg

    1Reply
  • Nicholas MischPro Member
    Investor · Broadview Hts, OH · Member since 2016 · 310 posts · 280 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jessica James:

    @Bruce Woodruff how about then maybe getting a license as an inspector? So at least I know what to check for? Also, what does it take to become a general contractor? I mean I would guess you would need to know an ample enough about most things before you can get that license?

    I def want to do on the job training as well, I know that obviously I can’t really legitimately learn just in a classroom or by taking a few courses

     Hey Jessica, I hope as a fellow real estate agent and someone who has several investments, (and am a Veteran also)  you won't take this "tough love" the wrong way. I have seen your comments about getting multiple other specialties and schooling and licenses, and I was there at one point also wanting get every license, learn everything myself, and do EVERY project I could to "save" money and I thought at the time, make things easier for me. The truth is all it did is cause lot's of overwhelm and I almost quit. Then I heard a quote from Eric Thomas (Known as ET) and he said. "The wealthy think, and the poor labor". This changed everything for me. Now nothing is wrong with doing and having careers in the trades and laboring to make an honest living, but even, lets say a plumber who decides they want to create a huge plumbing business, has to decide that they are going to stop doing all the "labor" and they have to focus on "thinking" or in other terms strategizing for the business growth and managing and hiring people to do the labor while he builds the wealth. So I am not sure what you want to do or build, but if your anything like me (and it seems that way by your posts) you should focus on what gets you closer to what you want and your goals, and learn to manage and let those who already have the skills and knowledge do the "labor". I hope this helps, and feel free to reach out anytime. 

    3Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Contractors make money by working fast and hard (as I said before "Skilled" Manual Labor) ...is this something you would want to do 8 hours a day at this pace (???)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjG9Ed041M

    0Reply
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