Advise Needed for New Builds (Sell or Hold) in Boothwyn Area Greater Philly

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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Advise Needed for New Builds (Sell or Hold) in Boothwyn Area Greater Philly

Taoli Zhen
New to Real Estate · Greater Philly · Member since 2025 · 6 posts · 3 votes

Hey BiggerPockets community!

I’m a first-time builder/investor working on a new construction single-family home in the Boothwyn area, part of the greater Philly market. I already own the lot and have stamped plans in hand, but I’m running into some roadblocks and could use advice from the experienced pros here.

The plan is for a ~2,500 sf, 4 bed / 3.5 bath two-level home with an unfinished 850 sf basement and a two-car garage. New builds are rare in this area—most comps are 90s-built flips that have sold for around $480K–$500K in the past year. A nearby newer build (3 bed / 3 bath, under 2,000 sf) is listed at $550K est. on market in July.

Here’s where I’m stuck and could really use some insight:

1. Am I crazy to shoot for a $650K listing price?
This would be the only way I could justify hiring a GC and still come out with even a modest profit (5–10% net). But most GC bids I’ve received fall between $250–$300 per sf, which pushes my build-only cost to $450K–$500K. That makes things extremely tight.

2. Should I alter the plan?
Would reducing the square footage or replacing the basement with a crawl space help me control costs enough to still justify this project? I know losing the basement might impact resale value, which works against the $650K goal.

3. Is GCing it myself the only way to hit a sub-$400K build?
I got a material package quote from 84 Lumber at around $60K, and the foundation alone (not including excavation) is already at $50K–$60K. I don’t have experience running a build, and I work full-time, so GCing myself is intimidating—but maybe necessary? In this case, I aiming for $160/sf for just the build.

4. Should I pivot to a Build-RRR strategy?
If $650K is unrealistic for this neighborhood, I’m considering building and refinancing to hold long-term. My estimated all-in cost would be ~$560K, and rents in the area are about $3,300–$3,500/month. I’d hope for 20% equity post-build after appraisal—would that be a solid play?

I’m also actively looking for a GC who might be open to working within a tighter budget. If you're a GC or know someone who might be interested, I’m happy to share full plans and current quotes. I have bids on some major items, but still need stormwater and excavation quotes.

Would love to hear from others who have built in this price range or market—do the numbers make sense? Is there a creative way to make this viable, or should I cut my losses and sell the lot with plans?

Thanks in advance for the advice—really appreciate this community!

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Stuart UdisPro Member
Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1y

@Taoli Zhen I know nothing about the Boothwyn housing market but I can tell you there's no margin building 2500 SF new construction single family homes in the Greater Philadelphia area with $650K outsales. Looking for a GC who will operate with tigher margins translates to shortcuts or an inferior build. It would be a mistake trying to cut costs this way. Value engineering is an important part of new devlopment but you have to weigh the modifications against marketability. Again, I know nothing about the Boothwyn housing market but you already acknowledged removing the basment will impact value so is the reduced cost really going to help? Doesn't appear so.  Sometimes I see investors try to force deals where the underwriting simply does not work. You definiitely want to avoid going this route. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 

Perhaps you should look into entitlements or alternative ways to devlop the land. Maybe you can build smaller twins on the site and sell the smaller homes at a higher outsale PPSF? This will require a deedp dive into the market and understanding the pricing and housing product the neighborhood can absorb. Maybe there's even a rental play with two smaller 3 bed houses?  With the rising housing costs, a lof of people continue to be priced out of home ownership and 3 bed units that give a renter the same experince as home ownership is a product that I am seeing being absorbed well. It's my best performing rental product at this time. To add additional context, I self perform and build in Philadelphia which tends to run at a little higher cost PSF compared to most surrounding areas and I am only pursuing builds where I can achieve $400/sf on the outsale.

[email protected]
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  • Stuart UdisPro Member
    Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    @Taoli Zhen I know nothing about the Boothwyn housing market but I can tell you there's no margin building 2500 SF new construction single family homes in the Greater Philadelphia area with $650K outsales. Looking for a GC who will operate with tigher margins translates to shortcuts or an inferior build. It would be a mistake trying to cut costs this way. Value engineering is an important part of new devlopment but you have to weigh the modifications against marketability. Again, I know nothing about the Boothwyn housing market but you already acknowledged removing the basment will impact value so is the reduced cost really going to help? Doesn't appear so.  Sometimes I see investors try to force deals where the underwriting simply does not work. You definiitely want to avoid going this route. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 

    Perhaps you should look into entitlements or alternative ways to devlop the land. Maybe you can build smaller twins on the site and sell the smaller homes at a higher outsale PPSF? This will require a deedp dive into the market and understanding the pricing and housing product the neighborhood can absorb. Maybe there's even a rental play with two smaller 3 bed houses?  With the rising housing costs, a lof of people continue to be priced out of home ownership and 3 bed units that give a renter the same experince as home ownership is a product that I am seeing being absorbed well. It's my best performing rental product at this time. To add additional context, I self perform and build in Philadelphia which tends to run at a little higher cost PSF compared to most surrounding areas and I am only pursuing builds where I can achieve $400/sf on the outsale.

    [email protected]
    4Reply
    • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Stuart Udis:

      @Taoli Zhen I know nothing about the Boothwyn housing market but I can tell you there's no margin building 2500 SF new construction single family homes in the Greater Philadelphia area with $650K outsales. Looking for a GC who will operate with tigher margins translates to shortcuts or an inferior build. It would be a mistake trying to cut costs this way. Value engineering is an important part of new devlopment but you have to weigh the modifications against marketability. Again, I know nothing about the Boothwyn housing market but you already acknowledged removing the basment will impact value so is the reduced cost really going to help? Doesn't appear so.  Sometimes I see investors try to force deals where the underwriting simply does not work. You definiitely want to avoid going this route. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 

      Perhaps you should look into entitlements or alternative ways to devlop the land. Maybe you can build smaller twins on the site and sell the smaller homes at a higher outsale PPSF? This will require a deedp dive into the market and understanding the pricing and housing product the neighborhood can absorb. Maybe there's even a rental play with two smaller 3 bed houses?  With the rising housing costs, a lof of people continue to be priced out of home ownership and 3 bed units that give a renter the same experince as home ownership is a product that I am seeing being absorbed well. It's my best performing rental product at this time. To add additional context, I self perform and build in Philadelphia which tends to run at a little higher cost PSF compared to most surrounding areas and I am only pursuing builds where I can achieve $400/sf on the outsale.


       Stuart brings up a really solid point about the costs of construction and outsale pricing. Im seeing that builders doing projects in major volume are able to absorb these kinds of costs and make some kind of profit. Also lots of builders of new construction will "make up" their margins on upgrades in the home. They will offer a base price with very cheap finishes and upcharge on more premium kitchens, baths, finished basments, etc. 

      New construction is costing more than $160/sqft. Thats already $400k for 2500sqft and you haven't: bought the land, gone through permitting, and didn't include any financing. 

      If you can sell the home at $400/sqft you will be at $1m mark with 2500sqft. that give you room for financing, cost of financing (this adds up quick), cost of land, and cost of permitting. Don't forget in some rural parts you might need to install on site sewer and well systems or pull those lines from the street which is even additional cost.

      I like another point that Stuart brought up - smaller 3 bed rentals. Personally I am finding less solid candidates for 2 bed and 1 bed rentals. I recently put up 3 bed 3 bath townhouse and I rented it out in one weekend and I am still getting blown up by SOLID candidates. Buyers are getting priced out of their market and forced to rent nicer smaller 3 bed homes. This could be a good option. There is a good market for 3 bed townhouse rentals

      [email protected]267-767-0111
      Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 592 Reviews
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      1Reply
  • Juan Cristales
    Investor · Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 245 posts · 124 votes
    1y

    Wow man! That is a tough deal to analyze when you don't have a lot of experience. I'm in the Texas market and also don't know anything about that market. Here's a couple of points I would bring up.

    1. In a scenario where value is a bit unsubstantiated like this, I will pay an appraiser to give me a genuine valuation of what the product would sell for at market. They would need to know what the end product is going to look like to give it a solid number. That's the base-line.

    2. Once plans have been stamped by the city, I do my best to not alter them as it costs time and money. The good thing is that you haven't actually started construction. Create the plan and stick to it, is my suggestion once you're committed. Also, once you start, you have to find a way to finish this project. You stand to lose less (if it ends up not being profitable) by finishing it THAN BY trying to sell a half-built product (where you are most likely going to lose more).

    3. There are builders who do a "Cost Plus 15%" in most areas. My challenge with those guys is that interests are sometimes NOT aligned. This means that a GC is going to pass the cost on to you plus his fee without regard to seeing if he can source labor/material at a better price. He has limited incentive for that. 

    4. Build to Rent I think is great but just as @Stuart Udis mentioned, you would likely need more doors to make that profitable. In Texas, the model working well for smaller investors are duplexes. Two doors. One structure. I've personally built SFR rentals and the DSCR loan made it a "not so great scenario" for me. Even with the built in equity, the rent rate was insufficient to cover all or a majority of my construction costs and now I have a ton of cash tied up in those deals and the cashflow doesn't justify it. Lesson learned but I couldn't take the Loss.

    Let me know what you decide. 

    Building new is something I wish I had started sooner. I prefer it more than flipping houses. House flipping just comes with so many "variables" that even the most experienced flipper can sometimes not anticipate. You have to buy SO Deep that the offers sometimes become insulting to sellers and it can be a very frustrating endeavor. 

    Best of luck!

    Juan-

    1Reply
    • Taoli Zhen
      OP
      New to Real Estate · Greater Philly · Member since 2025 · 6 posts · 3 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Juan Cristales:

      Wow man! That is a tough deal to analyze when you don't have a lot of experience. I'm in the Texas market and also don't know anything about that market. Here's a couple of points I would bring up.

      1. In a scenario where value is a bit unsubstantiated like this, I will pay an appraiser to give me a genuine valuation of what the product would sell for at market. They would need to know what the end product is going to look like to give it a solid number. That's the base-line.

      2. Once plans have been stamped by the city, I do my best to not alter them as it costs time and money. The good thing is that you haven't actually started construction. Create the plan and stick to it, is my suggestion once you're committed. Also, once you start, you have to find a way to finish this project. You stand to lose less (if it ends up not being profitable) by finishing it THAN BY trying to sell a half-built product (where you are most likely going to lose more).

      3. There are builders who do a "Cost Plus 15%" in most areas. My challenge with those guys is that interests are sometimes NOT aligned. This means that a GC is going to pass the cost on to you plus his fee without regard to seeing if he can source labor/material at a better price. He has limited incentive for that. 

      4. Build to Rent I think is great but just as @Stuart Udis mentioned, you would likely need more doors to make that profitable. In Texas, the model working well for smaller investors are duplexes. Two doors. One structure. I've personally built SFR rentals and the DSCR loan made it a "not so great scenario" for me. Even with the built in equity, the rent rate was insufficient to cover all or a majority of my construction costs and now I have a ton of cash tied up in those deals and the cashflow doesn't justify it. Lesson learned but I couldn't take the Loss.

      Let me know what you decide. 

      Building new is something I wish I had started sooner. I prefer it more than flipping houses. House flipping just comes with so many "variables" that even the most experienced flipper can sometimes not anticipate. You have to buy SO Deep that the offers sometimes become insulting to sellers and it can be a very frustrating endeavor. 

      Best of luck!

      Juan-


      Thank you Juan! I'll definitely get an appraisal to see how I could work around the numbers. Cost Plus 15% GC is really hard to find in our area I've outreach to something like 30+ reputable GCs around the area but no luck.

      1Reply
    • Juan Cristales
      Investor · Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 245 posts · 124 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Taoli Zhen:
      Quote from @Juan Cristales:

      Wow man! That is a tough deal to analyze when you don't have a lot of experience. I'm in the Texas market and also don't know anything about that market. Here's a couple of points I would bring up.

      1. In a scenario where value is a bit unsubstantiated like this, I will pay an appraiser to give me a genuine valuation of what the product would sell for at market. They would need to know what the end product is going to look like to give it a solid number. That's the base-line.

      2. Once plans have been stamped by the city, I do my best to not alter them as it costs time and money. The good thing is that you haven't actually started construction. Create the plan and stick to it, is my suggestion once you're committed. Also, once you start, you have to find a way to finish this project. You stand to lose less (if it ends up not being profitable) by finishing it THAN BY trying to sell a half-built product (where you are most likely going to lose more).

      3. There are builders who do a "Cost Plus 15%" in most areas. My challenge with those guys is that interests are sometimes NOT aligned. This means that a GC is going to pass the cost on to you plus his fee without regard to seeing if he can source labor/material at a better price. He has limited incentive for that. 

      4. Build to Rent I think is great but just as @Stuart Udis mentioned, you would likely need more doors to make that profitable. In Texas, the model working well for smaller investors are duplexes. Two doors. One structure. I've personally built SFR rentals and the DSCR loan made it a "not so great scenario" for me. Even with the built in equity, the rent rate was insufficient to cover all or a majority of my construction costs and now I have a ton of cash tied up in those deals and the cashflow doesn't justify it. Lesson learned but I couldn't take the Loss.

      Let me know what you decide. 

      Building new is something I wish I had started sooner. I prefer it more than flipping houses. House flipping just comes with so many "variables" that even the most experienced flipper can sometimes not anticipate. You have to buy SO Deep that the offers sometimes become insulting to sellers and it can be a very frustrating endeavor. 

      Best of luck!

      Juan-


      Thank you Juan! I'll definitely get an appraisal to see how I could work around the numbers. Cost Plus 15% GC is really hard to find in our area I've outreach to something like 30+ reputable GCs around the area but no luck.


      Take it in smaller bite-sized chunks if you can. Categorize the construction costs on a spreadsheet and start assign it numbers. Share with the group here and as a collective, we can probably tell you what you're missing. 

      0Reply
    • Taoli Zhen
      OP
      New to Real Estate · Greater Philly · Member since 2025 · 6 posts · 3 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Juan Cristales:
      Quote from @Taoli Zhen:
      Quote from @Juan Cristales:

      Wow man! That is a tough deal to analyze when you don't have a lot of experience. I'm in the Texas market and also don't know anything about that market. Here's a couple of points I would bring up.

      1. In a scenario where value is a bit unsubstantiated like this, I will pay an appraiser to give me a genuine valuation of what the product would sell for at market. They would need to know what the end product is going to look like to give it a solid number. That's the base-line.

      2. Once plans have been stamped by the city, I do my best to not alter them as it costs time and money. The good thing is that you haven't actually started construction. Create the plan and stick to it, is my suggestion once you're committed. Also, once you start, you have to find a way to finish this project. You stand to lose less (if it ends up not being profitable) by finishing it THAN BY trying to sell a half-built product (where you are most likely going to lose more).

      3. There are builders who do a "Cost Plus 15%" in most areas. My challenge with those guys is that interests are sometimes NOT aligned. This means that a GC is going to pass the cost on to you plus his fee without regard to seeing if he can source labor/material at a better price. He has limited incentive for that. 

      4. Build to Rent I think is great but just as @Stuart Udis mentioned, you would likely need more doors to make that profitable. In Texas, the model working well for smaller investors are duplexes. Two doors. One structure. I've personally built SFR rentals and the DSCR loan made it a "not so great scenario" for me. Even with the built in equity, the rent rate was insufficient to cover all or a majority of my construction costs and now I have a ton of cash tied up in those deals and the cashflow doesn't justify it. Lesson learned but I couldn't take the Loss.

      Let me know what you decide. 

      Building new is something I wish I had started sooner. I prefer it more than flipping houses. House flipping just comes with so many "variables" that even the most experienced flipper can sometimes not anticipate. You have to buy SO Deep that the offers sometimes become insulting to sellers and it can be a very frustrating endeavor. 

      Best of luck!

      Juan-


      Thank you Juan! I'll definitely get an appraisal to see how I could work around the numbers. Cost Plus 15% GC is really hard to find in our area I've outreach to something like 30+ reputable GCs around the area but no luck.


      Take it in smaller bite-sized chunks if you can. Categorize the construction costs on a spreadsheet and start assign it numbers. Share with the group here and as a collective, we can probably tell you what you're missing. 


      Will do! I am awaiting on a couple of items by then I will share the exact numbers here for the BP community!

      0Reply
  • Sheryl Sitman
    Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 483 posts · 362 votes
    1y

    @Taoli Zhen   Wow -you clearly put a lot of thought into this, and it’s great that you already have the lot and stamped plans in hand. That said, based on what you’ve laid out, you may be underestimating how complex (and risky) it is to execute a first-time new build project solo—especially with tight margins and no prior GC experience.

    A few thoughts:

    1. Listing at $650K might be wishful thinking. Unless you have very strong comps or you're building in a pocket that justifies that number (and can defend it to an appraiser), banking on top-dollar pricing could backfire especially in this current dynamic economy. The newer $550K comp you mention, smaller but similarly located, makes your number feel like a stretch unless your finishes and curb appeal blow it away.

    2. GCing yourself is not a small lift. Coordinating trades, permits, inspections, budget management, and timelines—especially with a full-time job—can make this a recipe for budget overruns. GCing to save money only works if you’re experienced or have strong project management support (and lots of time). Right now, it sounds like neither is fully in place.

    3. A build-RRRR might make more sense—if you're thinking long-term. But even then, you need to confirm that a post-construction appraisal would actually support a $700K+ valuation to pull out enough equity. Run that by a few local lenders and appraisers before you go all-in.

    Here’s my honest take: You’re on the edge of making a big commitment with a lot of moving parts you haven’t done before. If this is something you want to start doing seriously and to get good at, you will benefit from getting an experienced builder, developer, or coach involved now, - on a consulting basis for it to be serious. The right person can help you value engineer the build, avoid rookie mistakes, and pressure-test your financial assumptions before you find yourself in a hole.

    If you want to be steered to someone who can help feel free to reach out. Don’t wing this alone. A few good sessions with experienced people could save you a ton of money (like finding the right contractors or making the right materials selections from the right vendors), a lot of stress and put you on your way to getting good at it.  I've seen a lot of people get burnt thinking the barrier to entry is low - it is easy for anyone to start. Not so easy to finish and remain whole.

    1Reply
  • Taoli Zhen
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Greater Philly · Member since 2025 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    1y

    @Stuart Udis,@Alan Asriants,@Sheryl Sitman, I'm still not sure about how the mentioning works here at BP but please forgive me if you are not mentioned correctly.

    Thanks to y'all the Philly people here! These are really good advice. I didn't know the BP community would be this helpful!

    Yes I'm seriously concerned about the deal for a while after I have the engineers-tamped plans and trying to pull-off the GC part myself. You guys just confirmed my worry and it's actually helping me to understand the deal I'm getting into A LOT better! I haven't pulled permit yet cause it'd be best to pull it by the to-be GC.

    Question: The lot already runs city water and sewer lines but not gas. Would not having a gas line negatively impact the final valuation if I go with electric only for HVAC or is it better to run the gas from the street?

    I am considering getting rid of one bedroom to make it a 3b/3.5b but the numbers still don't come close to making this deal make sense. The 3b/3b insight is really helpful regardless of my current situation for rethinking how to approach RE investment here in Philly.

    I'll definitely go get a pre-construction appraisal before I invest any more money into this project.

    Oh yes, this is in a average school so called “C” or “C+” school district. I think it really keeps the valuation of $650 unachievable. Lesson learned that location is the most important aspect in this case.

    0Reply
    • Josh Ball
      Real Estate Agent · Louisiana · Member since 2017 · 215 posts · 149 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Taoli Zhen:

      @Stuart Udis,@Alan Asriants,@Sheryl Sitman, I'm still not sure about how the mentioning works here at BP but please forgive me if you are not mentioned correctly.

      Thanks to y'all the Philly people here! These are really good advice. I didn't know the BP community would be this helpful!

      Yes I'm seriously concerned about the deal for a while after I have the engineers-tamped plans and trying to pull-off the GC part myself. You guys just confirmed my worry and it's actually helping me to understand the deal I'm getting into A LOT better! I haven't pulled permit yet cause it'd be best to pull it by the to-be GC.

      Question: The lot already runs city water and sewer lines but not gas. Would not having a gas line negatively impact the final valuation if I go with electric only for HVAC or is it better to run the gas from the street?

      I am considering getting rid of one bedroom to make it a 3b/3.5b but the numbers still don't come close to making this deal make sense. The 3b/3b insight is really helpful regardless of my current situation for rethinking how to approach RE investment here in Philly.

      I'll definitely go get a pre-construction appraisal before I invest any more money into this project.

      Oh yes, this is in a average school so called “C” or “C+” school district. I think it really keeps the valuation of $650 unachievable. Lesson learned that location is the most important aspect in this case.


      Taoli, I am in a completely different market than you although I specialize in selling brand new construction homes. We recently had 2 builders develop a small 12 identical home neighborhood. One builder built 8 with gas & another is building 4 without gas. Every single house with gas has sold, every house without gas is still sitting on the market to this day. The homes that are electric are on a dead end street & cheaper but buyers are giving up minor location benefit & paying almost $5,000 more to have a home with gas. If it is not a major expense/issue, run the gas to the home in my opinion.

      1Reply
  • Stuart UdisPro Member
    Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    Removing a bedroom will have a minimal impact on pricing. Mechanicals will essentially cost the same, kitchen costs the same, site work costs the same, etc. etc. Take the SF of the bedroom and multiple it by $100 and that's basically what you will be saving. 

    [email protected]
    1Reply
  • Charles Becoat
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 33 posts · 10 votes
    1y

    I'm working on something similar. Who did your financing for new construction with no experience? 

    1Reply
    • Juan Cristales
      Investor · Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 245 posts · 124 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Charles Becoat:

      I'm working on something similar. Who did your financing for new construction with no experience? 


       I'll message you someone's info who can be a little flexible for your first build.

      Juan-

      0Reply
  • Taoli Zhen
    OP
    New to Real Estate · Greater Philly · Member since 2025 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    1y

    @Charles Becoat I'm lucky enough that my boss is willing to pull business line of credit on this venture for the construction cost. But it's really tough to justify the potential profit considering the interest rate.

    0Reply
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