Please tell me how this offer (to me) makes sense

Please tell me how this offer (to me) makes sense

Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

So I just received an intriguing offer on a property of mine from an investment/wholesale company. 
I bought this property in August of 2019 for $60k. I spent 6 mos on a complete rehab by myself, put in about $15k. (20% down, rehab $ was cash so I put out about $30k). It has been rented since May 2020 for $1450. My expenses are about $700/month with $380 of that going to small commercial loan (winner!) it is worth about $175k in this market.

So the offer I received was this: $300,000 total purchase price- 0% down/0% interest- $950/month to me, they pay the mortgage/taxes/ins for 8 years with a balloon at the end. So approx $91k to me over the next 8 years and then a balloon payment of $200,000. 

How does this make any sense? Before the pandemic this house was worth $140k conservative. In the mean time, they would not cash flow anything, actually negative, and then hope they can refi and give me $200,000 in 8 years. I don’t get it, please help me understand how this makes sense! 

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Matt M.:
Kk



This is a prop bet, Matt. Looks like one, smells like one, quacks like one. I think you're right, it's all a bunch of camouflage disguising the zero down. God only knows what they plan on doing in/with/to it. I would be interested to see how they respond to you.

No response yet @Jim K.. I have a feeling I won’t get one, I’m no long time super seasoned investor like @Jay Hinrichs, but I’m not an idiot and this is a loser all day long. 


how about this.. they get into title on your asset for Zero down..  in PA it takes what 2 years plus to foreclose and longer if contested.. they rip the rents pay nothing to maintance dont pay the tax's and just walk with 30k while you fight to get your asset back.. I have seen this play many times one sub too deals there are bad actors out there .. they do 10 to 20 of these and its real money.
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  • Lender · Member since 2022 · 441 posts · 134 votes
    4y

    Even as a lender this offer, makes me scratch my head. What I would recommend, if you are looking to use your equity in this location for renovations or to purchase another location. Would be to do a cashout refinance for 75% of the value to buyout you exisiting commerical loan and net in cash the rest at closing. So at $175k market value you would be looking at $131,250, paying off the balance and netting the nest. Hope this was helpful, for more information or questions please message me or inquire on the Brrrr Loans BP page.

  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Matt M.

    I think the basic premise of this deal is the old 'you name the price, I name the terms' They are selling you a bill of goods when they say the purchase price is $300k. That ignores the time value of money. 

    As others have pointed out, their play is to get into this deal for zero cash down, which makes any amount of profit have the mystical infinite CoC. Plus they are screwing you on the $200k in 8 years. That assumes the house will appercaite at less than 2%/yr with they given inflation, at first guess seems low, but you are in the market so that could be wrong.

    I made a toy model that says their deal could work, if they have a low cost of debt and high leverage and the stars align. Not a great business model by any means, but smarter ppl have done dumber things. That's my guess. I think @Rhett Kelton is also onto something with the hedge fund idea. If they roll up a bunch of these they could sell them as a bundle for a way higher per unit price than as a single unit. 

    One question, when do you pay off your commercial loan? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Bill F. Yes, any analysis of this deal should start with the assumption you will never, ever see that balloon payment.

  • Rental Property Investor · Knightdale, NC · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matt M.:
    Quote from @Joel Scarboro:

    In the end it’s a business deal. It’s not your concern on what or why but that it makes sense to your goals. They may just want a tax shelter. Who knows but all you need to know is if it works for you and the criteria of the agreement is set in stone legally by a qualified lawyer let it roll. Just saying.

    Well it is my concern if I’m holding the note, the house gets trashed and they stop paying. With $0 down they have no incentive to keep up with it when they can just walk away. 
    and if it’s all still in my name, I don’t see how it could be a tax shelter. 

     One of the homes I own only cash flows $100. However the depreciation from that one home is 6k. That’s what I mean as a tax shelter. That 6K goes against my earnings. 

  • Rhett KeltonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2018 · 85 posts · 46 votes
    4y

    Can you let us know what ended up happening with this?  I'm very curious...

  • Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Rhett Kelton:

    Can you let us know what ended up happening with this?  I'm very curious...


     Nothing at all. I wasn’t looking to sell to begin with, and surely wouldn’t sell with 0 down. 

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