How do we solve the housing crisis in America???
Most Popular Reply
Henry ClarkPro Member
Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votesAlways start with the numbers. What market? How many? What is rental cost? What is ownership cost? What group of people?
By renting trailers you may be causing the problem. By selling houses to them you may be causing the problem. What are your numbers?
Approach the question backwards. How would I increase the number of people who can’t afford housing? Dissect the issue.
360,000,000 people.
How many can’t afford housing. What do you mean by can’t afford housing? Can’t buy? Can’t rent?
Why is it bad that x% can’t afford housing? Unless you’re homeless you have housing. Are you talking about homeless? Define the who.
160 Replies
- Member since 2023 · 52 posts · 43 votes2y
"I have felt drawn to investing in Mobile Home Parks partially because I feel like it allows me to have an impact by providing affordable housing"
Mobile home parks do seem to draw in investors looking to make an impact. Just ask John Oliver.
- 2yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Always start with the numbers. What market? How many? What is rental cost? What is ownership cost? What group of people?
By renting trailers you may be causing the problem. By selling houses to them you may be causing the problem. What are your numbers?
Approach the question backwards. How would I increase the number of people who can’t afford housing? Dissect the issue.
360,000,000 people.
How many can’t afford housing. What do you mean by can’t afford housing? Can’t buy? Can’t rent?
Why is it bad that x% can’t afford housing? Unless you’re homeless you have housing. Are you talking about homeless? Define the who.
- Member since 2021 · 401 posts · 254 votes2y
Quote from @Logan M.:
I have felt drawn to investing in Mobile Home Parks partially because I feel like it allows me to have an impact by providing affordable housing.
What I want to know is if there is a real solution to the unaffordability of housing in America.
I see grant programs and government assistance but it seems like it just inflates to problem.
Is the answer that we just need more housing units? What am I missing?
You can create section 8 housing using the Bonus program that allows you to increase your unit density. Then create anti airbnb ads which will cause snoby milenials to sell their rentals thus creating more inventory. Then short black rock, vanguard and open door.
Create and develop land of tiny homes (<330sqft) instead of your typical ugly suburban McMansions.
Create a high rise tiny condos in the city where you can walk to work or use public transportation (<330sqft). Kinda like Peach Tree in Dredd.
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Logan M.:
I have felt drawn to investing in Mobile Home Parks partially because I feel like it allows me to have an impact by providing affordable housing.
What I want to know is if there is a real solution to the unaffordability of housing in America.
I see grant programs and government assistance but it seems like it just inflates to problem.
Is the answer that we just need more housing units? What am I missing?
This is a complicated issue that has been discussed many times here. And you need to define 'affordable housing'.....affordable where? And to who?
If you search for a national number on the number of housing units available vs the number of people looking for housing, there are always plenty of units available.
The problem is everyone wants to live where they want to live...near their family, near their favorite job, near the beach/lake/mountains, etc....People have gotten spoiled and entitled.
For example, everyone would love to live in San Diego, let's say....great weather, pretty girls, tacos, micro-breweries by the hundreds...But rents are outrageous and home prices are even worse. But yet they still whine about the 'unavailability/unaffordability of housing'. That's crazy. If you can only afford to spend $1500 mo on a 3/2 rental house, it's easy...just go where those exist and do it. But it won't be in San Diego...sorry...
As for your particular endeavor, I don't see that impacting the 'housing problem' at all. But if it appeals to you, go for it....
- Member since 2015 · 53 posts · 88 votes2y
The solution is simple. America just needs to enforce its existing laws.
We currently have over 10 million illegal immigrants living in the US. These criminals are taking housing away from Americans and driving up prices. We simply need to deport them and housing prices would become much more affordable.
For some reason this obvious solution is never even brought up as a possibility.
- Member since 2023 · 52 posts · 43 votes2y
Quote from @Palmer Thomas:
The solution is simple. America just needs to enforce its existing laws.
We currently have over 10 million illegal immigrants living in the US. These criminals are taking housing away from Americans and driving up prices. We simply need to deport them and housing prices would become much more affordable.
For some reason this obvious solution is never even brought up as a possibility.
Ok. I don't know who could deny the reality that would help. I know people would try, but the reality is it would help. But if I'm going to admit that, I also have to be fair and admit that it sure as hell won't fix everything, and is hardly the lions share of the problem.
Now how about back to the Realtors, lenders and investors trying to squeeze every last drop out of it they can for decades, fueled by ignorant (or deliberate) governement and central bank policy.
Nothing I love more than hearing I got outbid on yet another house by another investor from Shanghai in a highest and best bidding war orchestrated by the realtors, by the way.
- 2yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Account Closed. Sounds like you're down on REI. I would find a different forum.
- 2yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
This is a really complicated issue....
Affordability is based on 2 major factors...... how much money do I make and what is the price of the units in the area. So am I underpaid or are the prices too damn high. What we are seeing now is a lot of the younger generation making pretty decent $$ by most standards and still not being able to afford housing...... that new.
@Bruce Woodruff..... while "want" has some major influence on where people decide to live, so does necessity..... what do you do for a living? job availability.....are there services that you need that require you to live close? We cant all just live wherever and make it by. Move to a lower cost housing market..... and there is a decent chance your job pay is going to be substantially less too. It's more complicated than "just move somewhere cheaper"
- Member since 2023 · 52 posts · 43 votes2y
Quote from @Henry Clark:
@Account Closed. Sounds like you're down on REI. I would find a different forum.
Well that's what you would do- in addition to dodging legitimate criticisms regarding REIs role in the current housing crisis, apparently.
- 2yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Palmer Thomas...wow...just wow......
Blame everything on the big bad boogeyman of immigrants..... wow....
Got nothing to do with the rampant capitalists squeezing out every penny of the market....corporate greed not increasing wages......its the immigrants....got it.
- 2yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
0% down, 4% interest today.
Join the military for benefits.Live with your parents or family.
Live 4 or 8 to a house.
They are homeless. My buddy is section 8 and has been homeless. He said there is more than enough temporary housing for homeless.
When you move to section 8 it gets harder. He has $850 per month and the number of units available is scarce.On TV last night young guy making $24,000 per year is living with 3 others to share rent. That’s about $11.50 per hour. There are plenty of jobs higher than $11.50 per hour nonqualified jobs. Just show up at 8. Is this persons issue unaffordable housing.
If you want to help. Need to dissect the discussion. For example you do mobile homes. Do you rent them or do you help people buy them? If you help them buy them, you’re helping them step up. - 2yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Ok. @Account Closed. Let’s not dodge the discussion.
What is your investment portfolio?
What is your involvement in REI?
Instead of me explaining why there is a housing shortage after years of low interest, you explain why? I’ll either agree with you or point out reasons we are where we are.
As I mentioned to the OP. Define affordable housing so we are talking the same points.
- Member since 2015 · 53 posts · 88 votes2ySure, it's a boogeyman.........or it's basic supply and demand that anyone with even the most basic understanding of economics could grasp.
Quote from @Ned J.:
@Palmer Thomas...wow...just wow......
Blame everything on the big bad boogeyman of immigrants..... wow....
Got nothing to do with the rampant capitalists squeezing out every penny of the market....corporate greed not increasing wages......its the immigrants....got it.
We have 10+ million people living here illegally. The people need housing. This demand for housing drives up the price.
Is there anything about that which you disagree with? - Member since 2015 · 53 posts · 88 votes2yI don't know the exact extent which deporting illegals would help, but since it's as simple a concept as "enforce our laws" I see it as an easy start to lowering housing prices.
And I agree that we ought to restrict certain foreign purchases of real estate as it not only drives up prices, but can also contribute to speculative bubbles which are unhealthy for the economy.
The good thing is that these two strategies can both be implemented at the same time. - 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes10 million? Almost 10 million have come in since Jan 2021. There were already many 10s of millions here. The affects of this cannot be underplayed.
Quote from @Palmer Thomas:
We have 10+ million people living here illegally. The people need housing. This demand for housing drives up the price. - Member since 2015 · 53 posts · 88 votes2y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
10 million? Almost 10 million have come in since Jan 2021. There were already many 10s of millions here. The affects of this cannot be underplayed.Quote from @Palmer Thomas:
We have 10+ million people living here illegally. The people need housing. This demand for housing drives up the price.
You're wrong.
Not about the numbers, of course. The estimate I used is most likely a gross undercount.
As previous replies have shown, the effects of illegal immigrants can and are very often underplayed. - 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Palmer Thomas:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
10 million? Almost 10 million have come in since Jan 2021. There were already many 10s of millions here. The affects of this cannot be underplayed.Quote from @Palmer Thomas:
We have 10+ million people living here illegally. The people need housing. This demand for housing drives up the price.
You're wrong.
Not about the numbers, of course. The estimate I used is most likely a gross undercount.
As previous replies have shown, the effects of illegal immigrants can and are very often underplayed.Lol...we agree. I meant that they are underplayed.....
- 2yMatthew Irish-JonesBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Logan M. The same way all major economic crises are solved… let the free market do its thing and get out of the way.
Irish Jones Realty4.947 Reviews - 2yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votesI agree with you; however, I would also look at lifestyle. Some of the people making decent $$ are also pretty good at spending it vs saving for a down payment for a house. That is a personal choice, but is a factor in their ability to afford (to buy) a house.
Quote from @Ned J.:
This is a really complicated issue....
Affordability is based on 2 major factors...... how much money do I make and what is the price of the units in the area. So am I underpaid or are the prices too damn high. What we are seeing now is a lot of the younger generation making pretty decent $$ by most standards and still not being able to afford housing...... that new.
@Bruce Woodruff..... while "want" has some major influence on where people decide to live, so does necessity..... what do you do for a living? job availability.....are there services that you need that require you to live close? We cant all just live wherever and make it by. Move to a lower cost housing market..... and there is a decent chance your job pay is going to be substantially less too. It's more complicated than "just move somewhere cheaper"
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesNot really. I agree there are situations that require someone to live in a specific location, but not many...it is largely a matter of choice and what one is willing to give up. This is a first world problem for the most part. You just don't get to live where you want, have the wonderful job, be close to family, etc. Well not unless you're rich...
Quote from @Ned J.:
@Bruce Woodruff..... while "want" has some major influence on where people decide to live, so does necessity..... what do you do for a living? job availability.....are there services that you need that require you to live close? We cant all just live wherever and make it by. Move to a lower cost housing market..... and there is a decent chance your job pay is going to be substantially less too. It's more complicated than "just move somewhere cheaper"
- 2yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Henry Clark:
Always start with the numbers. What market? How many? What is rental cost? What is ownership cost? What group of people?
By renting trailers you may be causing the problem. By selling houses to them you may be causing the problem. What are your numbers?
Approach the question backwards. How would I increase the number of people who can’t afford housing? Dissect the issue.
360,000,000 people.
How many can’t afford housing. What do you mean by can’t afford housing? Can’t buy? Can’t rent?
Why is it bad that x% can’t afford housing? Unless you’re homeless you have housing. Are you talking about homeless? Define the who.
Or we could just admit that the realtors, lenders, and investors milking people dry and exploiting every law, ordinance and misguided government policy they could get their hands on was the problem.
Seems like you are anti capitalism.
Capitalism strives to maximize profits within the laws and regulations. This implies realtors, lender, and investors strive to maximize profit no different than the butcher, plumber, electrician, etc. The market will dictate their ability to earn money. Those that recognize how to build wealth often will, but they could choose to be philanthropic. They should not feel guilty making what they can anymore than the plumber should feel guilty about charging a rate that the market will pay.
There are communist countries that people are not paid on the market value of efforts. I have an aunt that was a national ballerina and her husband ( my uncle) was a film director in a former communist country. In the US these skills would have provided good/great wealth. They lived a fine life style, but not far above the lifestyle of lay people.
I have a friend that when various communist countries converted to capitalistic markets tried to hire some of these workers. The workers were used to not producing. He could not use them.I choose to be a fan of capitalism. I choose to be on BP to help budding RE investors succeed. Why are you here?
- Member since 2023 · 52 posts · 43 votes2y
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Henry Clark:
Always start with the numbers. What market? How many? What is rental cost? What is ownership cost? What group of people?
By renting trailers you may be causing the problem. By selling houses to them you may be causing the problem. What are your numbers?
Approach the question backwards. How would I increase the number of people who can’t afford housing? Dissect the issue.
360,000,000 people.
How many can’t afford housing. What do you mean by can’t afford housing? Can’t buy? Can’t rent?
Why is it bad that x% can’t afford housing? Unless you’re homeless you have housing. Are you talking about homeless? Define the who.
Or we could just admit that the realtors, lenders, and investors milking people dry and exploiting every law, ordinance and misguided government policy they could get their hands on was the problem.
Seems like you are anti capitalism.
Capitalism strives to maximize profits within the laws and regulations. This implies realtors, lender, and investors strive to maximize profit no different than the butcher, plumber, electrician, etc. The market will dictate their ability to earn money. Those that recognize how to build wealth often will, but they could choose to be philanthropic. They should not feel guilty making what they can anymore than the plumber should feel guilty about charging a rate that the market will pay.
There are communist countries that people are not paid on the market value of efforts. I have an aunt that was a national ballerina and her husband ( my uncle) was a film director in a former communist country. In the US these skills would have provided good/great wealth. They lived a fine life style, but not far above the lifestyle of lay people.
I have a friend that when various communist countries converted to capitalistic markets tried to hire some of these workers. The workers were used to not producing. He could not use them.I choose to be a fan of capitalism. I choose to be on BP to help budding RE investors succeed. Why are you here?
We haven't had actual capitalism in this country for decades, with everyone running to the gov to get bailed out everytime they screw up or need help. So spare me the capitalism crap in defense of greed run amok.
Bottom line is, the OP asked about solving the housing crisis in America. Some choose to argue there isn't one to begin with. For those who feel there is, you might want to look at the people involved in pumping up the prices to absurdity over the last decade.
Not hard to figure out who there were/are, and squawking about capitalism like a parrot to justify it all does zero to address this situation.
- Investor · Member since 2022 · 157 posts · 162 votes2y
@Palmer Thomas Reminds me of an old Native American proverb... "If we could just get rid of these immigrants everything would be better"...
Typically when someone tries to boil down a nationwide multi faceted problem down to "get rid of the immigrants" they're (in this case it applies to you) very wrong. It's complex and there are a lot of players and reasons. If it was easy someone would have solved it already. I suggest you do some basic internet searches as to the causes of the housing affordability crisis, it will include themes such as government policy, capitalism (who is often paying immigrants as cheaper labor), international unrest (which immigrants are often fleeing from), investors inflating prices, people looking for affordable housing not wanting to live where there actually is affordable housing), high interest rates, general inflation and more. All of those things blend together to provide the reasons why, it's not one thing. This guy with a bad comb over that was found to have commited fraud recently has a bad habit of trying to make complex things too simple, complexity is ok, it's part of life.
- 2yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Account Closed
Working with my buddy today. Section 8. Has to move out of his housing by Dec 1st. $850 for housing. Where do you live. Will you rent one of your units to him for $850? I will pay his cost to move to your unit. And an $850 deposit, I will pay to you. Will you Please help him?
If your REI approach isn't working, just ask for advice on this forum. You will get plenty of options an support. Without knowing your REI background, I can't know how to converse with you, from what point to start a discussion. See above I listed several ways to get into affordable housing. Have you tried any of these yet or helped other people to achieve?
We are backing off our investments and we still have tons of good deals we can do out in the countryside. Glad we are not near a major city or I would go nuts.
- 2yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
The reason there is not enough Affordable housing is Education. As someone mentioned above it takes the financing and the house or home availability to determine affordable housing.
You the non Affordable house person control or was at your disposal:
1. We just went through a period of the lowest interest rates ever. If you were ever going to buy a house, that was the time. If you did a variable rate loan and are choking right now, that's on you.
2. You might not have caught my note above. Today. Yes Today. You can get a loan for 0% down and 4% interest.
3. Houses are too expensive. I can get you a lot for $15,000 with road, sidewalk, water, sewer, electric, fiberoptics, at your front street access. I can build a 1,200 square foot house for you for $60,000 today. Just did it a year ago, so prices might be different. Marble countertops, polished concrete floor, full body shower, touch screen bathroom sink for the ladies. 20 minute drive from a million population metroplex.
4. You can get "FREE", tax FREE money $15,000 to $50,000 per year. You don't have to pay it back. You're a guaranteed millionaire in 20 years. Do you have a "C" average in high school? No major criminal records? Good medical? As time goes by you can buy any house you want, even up to a $1mm. Yes, its affordable to you, as a "C" average student in high School.
5. Somewhere in this thread someone will note, but my life situation or their life situation is different for the renter. They made it that way. Three rules. A. Don't get married before 21., B. Don't get pregnant before 21., C. Finish High School. All of these are totally in control of every person. Yes, you can fail to do all three of the above and still be tremendously successful, but not the regular person.
6. I believe we need "MORE" immigration, just not illegal immigration. Yes, they take away lower cost housing driving the cost up. But they also take away jobs. If you're a roofer, a Lumper- all you do is carry stacks of shingles and tear off, you can make $50,000 per year.
Out of your Control, actually not really, You made this happen:
7. Lumber went up 300% during covid, because Canada and the US shut down. Prices have come down, but like everything, contractors don't just take the prices down when they make quotes, because they got taken to the cleaners on bids before prices shot up.
8. Fuel- we should be down around $2.20 per gallon of gas and even less for diesel. This goes through everything. Milk, concrete, hairbrushes, door knobs, etc.
9. Covid dollars- $3 trillions dollars hit the market. This drove costs up. It is now out of the system per our 3 bankers. This should help drive demand down. But rates will go back up. When customers deposited this money into their bank accounts they "had to" loan it out, they couldn't just sit on it. Now that money or deposits are gone, they don't have to loan funds out and have tightened up.
10. The Student Loan debt issue, is bigger than the Housing crises debt levels. You want to make me pay for it?
11. We are supporting two wars and supporting other regions build ups to prevent further wars. You created this. The US is the greatest nation on earth and we need to let people know or they will nibble at the edges if we are weak.
12. Both major regional banks and the Fed are right on the edge of failure. Rates can't go up higher or they will fail. If they back off on interest rates, "I" will start to build 3 of our projects which will start inflation all over again.
13. WE have allowed Fed debt to grow. Someone correct me. Back in the early 80's when the Fed rate was 20%, our Fed debt was 5% of National GDP. Now at 5.?%; our Fed debt is multiples of our GDP. They can't expect our GDP to grow in multiples, their only way out is to tax Baby Boomer wealth coming up.
@Logan M. Educate them. You know, give them a fish, or teach them how to catch a fish.
@Account Closed There are far too many deals out there. The worst deal I will do is 100% profit, which includes getting my downpayment back. We expect 400% COC or better on most of our deals if we turn around and sell. Or 8 to 12 year payback. We have another potential deal coming up in 30 days, and we haven't digested our last deal; and we are backing off from REI. You could say I am one of those greedy people. But if you have a buyer, that is market price. If a poor person can't afford housing, you should teach them.
Start small and Make Your Big Mistakes Early.
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