Why I will no longer answer questions from the unknowledgeable
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesWhy I will no longer answer questions from the unknowledgeable
Most Popular Reply
Joe VilleneuvePro Member
Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votesThe problem as I see it, is we live in an age of information, and instant gratification,...with a lot of impatience added leading to the use of shortcuts.
All of this leads to a complete lack of understanding what the difference is between information and actual knowledge. The internet is full of information, and knowledge. Both are valuable, but they are not the same. Knowledge will give you complete pictures, systems, creativity, etc... and is contiguous. Information fills in where there might be gaps in the knowledge, or connects one set of knowledge to others.
Too often, due to my first paragraph, we find too many thinking that if they collect enough "quick" info, by shear volume, they have gained knowledge. They haven't. All they've done is create more gaps.
113 Replies
- 2yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
i can have some sympathy for #4, since it's drilled into everyone now that you can't advance in any field unless you 'have a mentor' - so i try to redirect those into an old-fashioned pursuit called 'making friends' or, not quite as bad, 'networking.'
also - go kart track conversions also present a huge opportunity IMO
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes2y
This is a hilarious and sad thread. Unfortunately, I think it just mirrors where society in general is, and my theory is that as societies becomes wealthier and life easier, it breeds a disincentive in the population to get off their *** and work for anything. I retired a few years ago from my "day job" and hiring anyone for entry level positions has just become downright impossible, and the pay has virtually nothing to do with it. We were trying to hire in basic labor jobs, no experience no education necessary, full time with full excellent benefits and pension, and you couldn't give the jobs away even at $20/hr. 95% of those contacted for interviews never showed up. I believe it's because anyone worth a crap is already working, so the only people looking for jobs are perpetual losers who you wouldn't want to hire anyway.
Life has become too soft in the US. No one is hungry any more. People who have a hunger (literally and figuratively) have internal drive to better themselves. Those that don't just look for shortcuts. Sadly, a lot of people think that RE is shortcuts.
Skyline Properties - 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesI'm going to start a business putting Go Kart tracks in assisted living centers....talk about a niche industry....
Quote from @Nicholas L.:
also - go kart track conversions also present a huge opportunity IMO
Who wants in on the ground floor? - 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
I'm going to start a business putting Go Kart tracks in assisted living centers....talk about a niche industry....Quote from @Nicholas L.:
also - go kart track conversions also present a huge opportunity IMO
Who wants in on the ground floor?@Don Konipol Can I borrow some money?
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
I'm going to start a business putting Go Kart tracks in assisted living centers....talk about a niche industry....Quote from @Nicholas L.:
also - go kart track conversions also present a huge opportunity IMO
Who wants in on the ground floor?@Don Konipol Can I borrow some money?
I wanted to post this here, as there is another post in BP that intertwines with this.
The crux of the issue is what Don mentioned in his opening post that people perceive the guru mentor shortcut or the cheap version for getting rich quick when many of these programs are not what they promise. Those of us who have been around can spot it from a mile away, unfortunately newbies cannot. I Honestly love the passion Scott Trench has lately with calling out the BS in these posts along with others, but the real question we should ask ourselves is, how can we assist in trying to clean some of this up? What can we do? Of course you cannot clean it all up, but what can be done, as to have someone like Don who has a wealth of knowledge and experience walk away (and trust me he is not the only one who feels this way).
Any ideas?
7e investments53 Reviews - 2yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
I'm going to start a business putting Go Kart tracks in assisted living centers....talk about a niche industry....Quote from @Nicholas L.:
also - go kart track conversions also present a huge opportunity IMO
Who wants in on the ground floor?This business will certainly have both acceleration and traction from day 1!
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
The crux of the issue is what Don mentioned in his opening post that people perceive the guru mentor shortcut or the cheap version for getting rich quick when many of these programs are not what they promise. Those of us who have been around can spot it from a mile away, unfortunately newbies cannot. I Honestly love the passion Scott Trench has lately with calling out the BS in these posts along with others, but the real question we should ask ourselves is, how can we assist in trying to clean some of this up? What can we do? Of course you cannot clean it all up, but what can be done, as to have someone like Don who has a wealth of knowledge and experience walk away (and trust me he is not the only one who feels this way).
Any ideas?
It's tough to call out scam artists or anyone without committing libel or slander.
Maybe have a sticky that warns in general of this, and encourage people to post their concerns and specifically ask advice from the more veteran members on here. @Scott Trench ?? - 2yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votesCorrect. I think it starts with me setting the rules and the tone for bad practices in a general sense. And the community calling out the BS specifically.
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
The crux of the issue is what Don mentioned in his opening post that people perceive the guru mentor shortcut or the cheap version for getting rich quick when many of these programs are not what they promise. Those of us who have been around can spot it from a mile away, unfortunately newbies cannot. I Honestly love the passion Scott Trench has lately with calling out the BS in these posts along with others, but the real question we should ask ourselves is, how can we assist in trying to clean some of this up? What can we do? Of course you cannot clean it all up, but what can be done, as to have someone like Don who has a wealth of knowledge and experience walk away (and trust me he is not the only one who feels this way).
Any ideas?
It's tough to call out scam artists or anyone without committing libel or slander.
Maybe have a sticky that warns in general of this, and encourage people to post their concerns and specifically ask advice from the more veteran members on here. @Scott Trench ??
There was a guy recently in these forums that I am as sure of anything in my life was scamming or doing something underhanded. But I can’t come right out and say it without putting BP at risk. If I am ever wrong, and libel someone, despite what appears to be every red flag, I could undo the career work of many BP employees, myself, and our founder Josh Dorkin. - 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes1) I'll repeat my suggestion to add a sticky right up top of every topic. I belong to some Forums that have several (stickies) and it does not detract at all.
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Correct. I think it starts with me setting the rules and the tone for bad practices in a general sense. And the community calling out the BS specifically.
There was a guy recently in these forums that I am as sure of anything in my life was scamming or doing something underhanded. But I can’t come right out and say it without putting BP at risk. If I am ever wrong, and libel someone, despite what appears to be every red flag, I could undo the career work of many BP employees, myself, and our founder Josh Dorkin.
2) Let some of the members do your dirty work for you. If you know what I mean.... - 2yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
1) I'll repeat my suggestion to add a sticky right up top of every topic. I belong to some Forums that have several (stickies) and it does not detract at all.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Correct. I think it starts with me setting the rules and the tone for bad practices in a general sense. And the community calling out the BS specifically.
There was a guy recently in these forums that I am as sure of anything in my life was scamming or doing something underhanded. But I can’t come right out and say it without putting BP at risk. If I am ever wrong, and libel someone, despite what appears to be every red flag, I could undo the career work of many BP employees, myself, and our founder Josh Dorkin.
2) Let some of the members do your dirty work for you. If you know what I mean....I think I will next week. Good idea!
And… some BP vets fried this particular individual. We don’t see much of him/her no more on these forums. - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
1) I'll repeat my suggestion to add a sticky right up top of every topic. I belong to some Forums that have several (stickies) and it does not detract at all.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Correct. I think it starts with me setting the rules and the tone for bad practices in a general sense. And the community calling out the BS specifically.
There was a guy recently in these forums that I am as sure of anything in my life was scamming or doing something underhanded. But I can’t come right out and say it without putting BP at risk. If I am ever wrong, and libel someone, despite what appears to be every red flag, I could undo the career work of many BP employees, myself, and our founder Josh Dorkin.
2) Let some of the members do your dirty work for you. If you know what I mean....I think I will next week. Good idea!
And… some BP vets fried this particular individual. We don’t see much of him/her no more on these forums.I think I know who you are referring to, which they claimed to be an expert underwriter but I reached out to a reference on that persons website and that reference noted they did not work with them on any of their "deals" but when that person was an underwriter at a multifamily syndicator who actually went under. So brag about underwriting for a company that went under.
It definitely sniffed wrotten fish when their linkedin profile also did not have any mention of what they had done in the past.
7e investments53 Reviews - 2yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
1) I'll repeat my suggestion to add a sticky right up top of every topic. I belong to some Forums that have several (stickies) and it does not detract at all.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Correct. I think it starts with me setting the rules and the tone for bad practices in a general sense. And the community calling out the BS specifically.
There was a guy recently in these forums that I am as sure of anything in my life was scamming or doing something underhanded. But I can’t come right out and say it without putting BP at risk. If I am ever wrong, and libel someone, despite what appears to be every red flag, I could undo the career work of many BP employees, myself, and our founder Josh Dorkin.
2) Let some of the members do your dirty work for you. If you know what I mean....I think I will next week. Good idea!
And… some BP vets fried this particular individual. We don’t see much of him/her no more on these forums.It's not really worth the liability to play police, like you mentioned.
It's also going to be hard to create fine lines of promoting(aka the columbus cartel) and outright scamming(Pace Morby-esque stuff) in my opinion. The former is fine, even if it's suffocating it's just personal opinion of a lack of tolerance. The latter eh that's when you see folks get ruined.
Overall best to let the village handle it, like they did with the Indiana guy if that's who we are talking about.
Folks are coming upon hard times, and I'm seeing more scams than ever and even when I'm out of the country the creativity is remarkable. Just goes to show the effort isn't lacking just not placed properly.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
1) I'll repeat my suggestion to add a sticky right up top of every topic. I belong to some Forums that have several (stickies) and it does not detract at all.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Correct. I think it starts with me setting the rules and the tone for bad practices in a general sense. And the community calling out the BS specifically.
There was a guy recently in these forums that I am as sure of anything in my life was scamming or doing something underhanded. But I can’t come right out and say it without putting BP at risk. If I am ever wrong, and libel someone, despite what appears to be every red flag, I could undo the career work of many BP employees, myself, and our founder Josh Dorkin.
2) Let some of the members do your dirty work for you. If you know what I mean....I think I will next week. Good idea!
And… some BP vets fried this particular individual. We don’t see much of him/her no more on these forums.It's not really worth the liability to play police, like you mentioned.
It's also going to be hard to create fine lines of promoting(aka the columbus cartel) and outright scamming(Pace Morby-esque stuff) in my opinion. The former is fine, even if it's suffocating it's just personal opinion of a lack of tolerance. The latter eh that's when you see folks get ruined.
Overall best to let the village handle it, like they did with the Indiana guy if that's who we are talking about.
Folks are coming upon hard times, and I'm seeing more scams than ever and even when I'm out of the country the creativity is remarkable. Just goes to show the effort isn't lacking just not placed properly.
Jason you bringing up "the Indiana guy" is fitting. Scott doesn't have to be wrong about a scammer to open himself and or Bigger Pockets to a lawsuit. I did spend a pretty penny whooping Clayton Morris in court after he sued me for $7.8 million for the documentary we produced about his involvement in the Indianapolis turnkey scams with Oceanpointe and Bert Whalen.
- Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes2y
There’s a big difference between disagreeing with someone’s methods, promises, and forecasts, and detecting actual fraud.
I’m not sure that for many of the gurus we call out that fraud is so easily detected, let alone proved. Just because we experienced investors KNOW that the methodology they’re teaching doesn’t work, doesn’t mean that they committed fraud. It just means that someone is getting paid for terrible advice!
Now, on the other hand, if a guru sells a system based on an illegal technique that may be fraud. If the same guru fabricates his personal history, or the success of his methods, that may be fraud. If he/she states something like “this is a no risk proposition” and there is risk, that may be fraud. But I would suggest that most of these “programs” put together by the notorious real estate marketing companies located in Salt Lake City, or Las Vegas are well vetted by legal council and do not commit legal fraud on its face. However, the guru himself may commit fraud by the way they implement the marketing/sales of the program, and the “hype” and promises they add to up their “conversion” rate.
So, unless we detect and have proof of actual fraud, let’s eliminate the word fraud when referring to these programs/gurus in our posts. Let’s begin our posts with the sentence “Based on my experience, I ….” I think this will be more helpful to some OPs too because it seems that when we go on an attack that says or implies fraud the buyers of these mentorship’s become extremely defensive and feel a strong need to defend their (ridiculous) investment.
- Real Estate Agent · Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 2 votes2y
If you buy leads from Bigger Pockets, they actually refund you for all these people. Just FYI, even this platform considers those "leads", not leads. They are not actual people, also, wholesaling should be considered fraud. Submitting an offer with no intention of buying a property should be considered illegal, to remarket it to another party, and the seller and listing agent lose control of their transaction. Do not accept assignable contracts or small deposits on RE transactions.
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Don Konipol:
There’s a big difference between disagreeing with someone’s methods, promises, and forecasts, and detecting actual fraud.
I’m not sure that for many of the gurus we call out that fraud is so easily detected, let alone proved. Just because we experienced investors KNOW that the methodology they’re teaching doesn’t work, doesn’t mean that they committed fraud. It just means that someone is getting paid for terrible advice!
Now, on the other hand, if a guru sells a system based on an illegal technique that may be fraud. If the same guru fabricates his personal history, or the success of his methods, that may be fraud. If he/she states something like “this is a no risk proposition” and there is risk, that may be fraud. But I would suggest that most of these “programs” put together by the notorious real estate marketing companies located in Salt Lake City, or Las Vegas are well vetted by legal council and do not commit legal fraud on its face. However, the guru himself may commit fraud by the way they implement the marketing/sales of the program, and the “hype” and promises they add to up their “conversion” rate.
So, unless we detect and have proof of actual fraud, let’s eliminate the word fraud when referring to these programs/gurus in our posts. Let’s begin our posts with the sentence “Based on my experience, I ….” I think this will be more helpful to some OPs too because it seems that when we go on an attack that says or implies fraud the buyers of these mentorship’s become extremely defensive and feel a strong need to defend their (ridiculous) investment.
its impossible for the trainers to know the rules laws in all 50 states. So training is generic and of course no one points out that you should check your state for the actual Laws of what I am teaching its legal in some states though :) Most of the trainers that were promising students to make 40k a month flipping houses did get shut down by the ftc.. think Montalongo Vertucci WE now see new posts about how you can make 1 mil a year flipping @Chris Seveney Chris just posted a screen shot of that advertisement and who is hawking that program.
- China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes2ySubmitting an offer with no intent to go through with the transaction is already illegal. It a tort called "Fraud in the Inducement".
Quote from @JC Johnson:
If you buy leads from Bigger Pockets, they actually refund you for all these people. Just FYI, even this platform considers those "leads", not leads. They are not actual people, also, wholesaling should be considered fraud. Submitting an offer with no intention of buying a property should be considered illegal, to remarket it to another party, and the seller and listing agent lose control of their transaction. Do not accept assignable contracts or small deposits on RE transactions.
That means that the wholesaler used deceit or trickery to induce the other party to sign a contract. https://www.upcounsel.com/fraud-in-the-inducement That's exactly what they do when they put a property under contract and only intend to sell their position in the contract, after a hefty markup.
Being a tort means that it is a civil infraction, not criminal. That means it's up to the injured party to sue the wholesaler. - Real Estate Agent · Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 2 votes2yI am going to use that, thank you very sincerely.
Quote from @Charlie MacPherson:
Submitting an offer with no intent to go through with the transaction is already illegal. It a tort called "Fraud in the Inducement".Quote from @JC Johnson:
If you buy leads from Bigger Pockets, they actually refund you for all these people. Just FYI, even this platform considers those "leads", not leads. They are not actual people, also, wholesaling should be considered fraud. Submitting an offer with no intention of buying a property should be considered illegal, to remarket it to another party, and the seller and listing agent lose control of their transaction. Do not accept assignable contracts or small deposits on RE transactions.
That means that the wholesaler used deceit or trickery to induce the other party to sign a contract. https://www.upcounsel.com/fraud-in-the-inducement That's exactly what they do when they put a property under contract and only intend to sell their position in the contract, after a hefty markup.
Being a tort means that it is a civil infraction, not criminal. That means it's up to the injured party to sue the wholesaler. - Real Estate Agent · Grand Junction, CO · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes2y
@Scott Trench @Bruce Woodruff @Nicholas L. @Don Konipol So... I used to manage a drag strip, and I am old enough to collect Social Security. And I own a brokerage and development company. I think I'm your gal for the assisted living / race track! If you call me for an interview I may or may not show up. @JD Martin
- Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes2y
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
1) I'll repeat my suggestion to add a sticky right up top of every topic. I belong to some Forums that have several (stickies) and it does not detract at all.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Correct. I think it starts with me setting the rules and the tone for bad practices in a general sense. And the community calling out the BS specifically.
There was a guy recently in these forums that I am as sure of anything in my life was scamming or doing something underhanded. But I can’t come right out and say it without putting BP at risk. If I am ever wrong, and libel someone, despite what appears to be every red flag, I could undo the career work of many BP employees, myself, and our founder Josh Dorkin.
2) Let some of the members do your dirty work for you. If you know what I mean....I think I will next week. Good idea!
And… some BP vets fried this particular individual. We don’t see much of him/her no more on these forums.A few Ideas to add don't know how workable any of these are
1. Is there a room for a kind of seprate secret invite only part of the website or something board where vetted members can discuess real deal's & get real advice, which was kind of the orginal intent of the site
2. I think bigger pockets should really think about there own role in promiting this very stuff, I follow bp on instragam to be frank you guy's promote the very scams that show up on this website, now i understand it's a buissness and you make money selling courses but I think the long term cost benefit of that kind of promotion and what it does to the long term repuation should be considered.
3. Is there more room for good content, get away from just random people asking questions and getting bad answers and more to some editorial stuff with maybe a comment section underneath, gives bp alot more control
4. I think one of the big picture issues is to be frank for the average person the will proably get better risk adjusted returns in the stock market and maybe even bond market right now, so theres so very broad sense in which kind of the whole thing is broadly scammy. however its the hardest time to buy a house since at least the 80's more content or maybe even another site aimed more a primary home buyers, with stragies for that, rent vs buy analysis, much more local coverage etc, it's quite possible if not likley this may just be a lost decade for r/e investing.
- 2yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
@Jack Seiden - It's tough to hear this feedback.
I, by not paying enough attention to our content engine, allowed us to veer off course, and lost some control over what we published as we scaled to so much content production. I am working hard with a new content team to get this back on track.
Question - do you think that since the beginning of the year (2024), we have largely moved back on the right side of the line in your view? Or are there recent examples of published content by us that you think are inappropriate?
- Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes2y
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jack Seiden - It's tough to hear this feedback.
I, by not paying enough attention to our content engine, allowed us to veer off course, and lost some control over what we published as we scaled to so much content production. I am working hard with a new content team to get this back on track.
Question - do you think that since the beginning of the year (2024), we have largely moved back on the right side of the line in your view? Or are there recent examples of published content by us that you think are inappropriate?
So 1st of all, I should say the reason I bother to point all of this out is I think biggerpockets is a great value, I’ve met multiple people I consider good friends from this site & hate to see it ruined, to be frank I think since around the pandemic bigger pockets has increasingly been on of the bigger although certainly not the only purveyor of what I would basically consider real estate grift, the no money down buy 10 rental properties, just the other day you guys had Dave Meyer who is truly one of favorite real estate commentators on instagram promoting some program to invest in real estate with no money down and no assets, I know Dave likley doesn’t believe any of that and the social team justprobably made him do that, I think the push of sub-2 is a scam that takes advantage of old people and very possibly constitutes mortgage fraud, without naming names I think I number of proment bp personalities can be more or less considered grifters promoting their own stuff, while obsetobly working for bigger pockets, I think a key part of any website is basic editorial control and that bp has failed at thet, sorry if that is harsh but I say it because I care lol.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes2y
Quote from @Jack Seiden:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jack Seiden - It's tough to hear this feedback.
I, by not paying enough attention to our content engine, allowed us to veer off course, and lost some control over what we published as we scaled to so much content production. I am working hard with a new content team to get this back on track.
Question - do you think that since the beginning of the year (2024), we have largely moved back on the right side of the line in your view? Or are there recent examples of published content by us that you think are inappropriate?
So 1st of all, I should say the reason I bother to point all of this out is I think biggerpockets is a great value, I’ve met multiple people I consider good friends from this site & hate to see it ruined, to be frank I think since around the pandemic bigger pockets has increasingly been on of the bigger although certainly not the only purveyor of what I would basically consider real estate grift, the no money down buy 10 rental properties, just the other day you guys had Dave Meyer who is truly one of favorite real estate commentators on instagram promoting some program to invest in real estate with no money down and no assets, I know Dave likley doesn’t believe any of that and the social team justprobably made him do that, I think the push of sub-2 is a scam that takes advantage of old people and very possibly constitutes mortgage fraud, without naming names I think I number of proment bp personalities can be more or less considered grifters promoting their own stuff, while obsetobly working for bigger pockets, I think a key part of any website is basic editorial control and that bp has failed at thet, sorry if that is harsh but I say it because I care lol.
I think you make some really good points.
It is not an easy task by any means to find & keep good content creators that also have "nothing to sell", so to speak, but in my opinion getting those people and keeping them engaged is a huge part of keeping the site both relevant and trusted. For example, and I know he wouldn't be interested of course :) , but my buddy @Steve Vaughan is a prime example of a great contributor that's not interested in selling anyone anything but just giving away good advice he's compiled over his many years of investing. @Jay Hinrichs; a guy who is still actively doing things but never mentions trying to sell or push anything and has been very giving of his own time (including being a guest at a mastermind group I was part of). @Dave Foster, who is the guy I think of instantly when it comes to 1031 exchange but isn't found anywhere hawking guru courses. Just a couple of names of the dozens - maybe hundreds - that I trust on here whenever I read their posts. I fall into their camp (not the smart guy camp, the guy who has nothing to sell!) - I just enjoy talking and learning about RE. I've never done a 1031 but if I wanted to I've read enough of what Dave's said to feel not only confident that I could get it done but also understand what kind of pitfalls I might be against. Several of our resident CPAs enabled me to learn enough to do a successful cost segregation study on one of our properties. I have no idea where I could have learned that as well as I did on here, for practically free. What's funny is that the main honcho in charge - Scott Trench - I'd trust buying something from him in a second as I think he's genuine & sincere and it's obvious what Josh saw here when he was looking for a successor. Of course, he's not selling anything other than the idea of BP as a trusted RE site, but that depends on a lot of other people.
So I get it when I hear someone say that they cringe when they hear BP podcast hosts or big personalities hawking their programs, books, learning programs and other items in either a back-door or blatant way. I know Brandon's not really associated with BP any more but reading the threads on Open Door creates either a bad taste or bad impression on a lot of people and that is really unfortunate, just as one example. Perhaps we (BP, the community) need a better firewall between the visible personalities - podcast hosts, webinar leaders, etc - and those with something to sell. It's not at all unusual for companies to have conflict of interest and ethical contracts or stipulations for its employees or associated vendors.
Skyline Properties - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesI agree with you. Steve Vaughn's model for building a portfolio over time. Personal and Family considerations to although that to happen .. To me he is like the Dave Ramsey of BP and many beginning their investing career would benefit from how Steve was able to acheive that dream of living off of rental properties cash flow. Or these days I think he might have switched a lot of his portfolio to be the bank.. either way mailbox money that one can live on. Which from what I see on BP is the goal of 110% of the participants on this site.
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jack Seiden:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jack Seiden - It's tough to hear this feedback.
I, by not paying enough attention to our content engine, allowed us to veer off course, and lost some control over what we published as we scaled to so much content production. I am working hard with a new content team to get this back on track.
Question - do you think that since the beginning of the year (2024), we have largely moved back on the right side of the line in your view? Or are there recent examples of published content by us that you think are inappropriate?
So 1st of all, I should say the reason I bother to point all of this out is I think biggerpockets is a great value, I’ve met multiple people I consider good friends from this site & hate to see it ruined, to be frank I think since around the pandemic bigger pockets has increasingly been on of the bigger although certainly not the only purveyor of what I would basically consider real estate grift, the no money down buy 10 rental properties, just the other day you guys had Dave Meyer who is truly one of favorite real estate commentators on instagram promoting some program to invest in real estate with no money down and no assets, I know Dave likley doesn’t believe any of that and the social team justprobably made him do that, I think the push of sub-2 is a scam that takes advantage of old people and very possibly constitutes mortgage fraud, without naming names I think I number of proment bp personalities can be more or less considered grifters promoting their own stuff, while obsetobly working for bigger pockets, I think a key part of any website is basic editorial control and that bp has failed at thet, sorry if that is harsh but I say it because I care lol.
I think you make some really good points.
It is not an easy task by any means to find & keep good content creators that also have "nothing to sell", so to speak, but in my opinion getting those people and keeping them engaged is a huge part of keeping the site both relevant and trusted. For example, and I know he wouldn't be interested of course :) , but my buddy @Steve Vaughan is a prime example of a great contributor that's not interested in selling anyone anything but just giving away good advice he's compiled over his many years of investing. @Jay Hinrichs; a guy who is still actively doing things but never mentions trying to sell or push anything and has been very giving of his own time (including being a guest at a mastermind group I was part of). @Dave Foster, who is the guy I think of instantly when it comes to 1031 exchange but isn't found anywhere hawking guru courses. Just a couple of names of the dozens - maybe hundreds - that I trust on here whenever I read their posts. I fall into their camp (not the smart guy camp, the guy who has nothing to sell!) - I just enjoy talking and learning about RE. I've never done a 1031 but if I wanted to I've read enough of what Dave's said to feel not only confident that I could get it done but also understand what kind of pitfalls I might be against. Several of our resident CPAs enabled me to learn enough to do a successful cost segregation study on one of our properties. I have no idea where I could have learned that as well as I did on here, for practically free. What's funny is that the main honcho in charge - Scott Trench - I'd trust buying something from him in a second as I think he's genuine & sincere and it's obvious what Josh saw here when he was looking for a successor. Of course, he's not selling anything other than the idea of BP as a trusted RE site, but that depends on a lot of other people.
So I get it when I hear someone say that they cringe when they hear BP podcast hosts or big personalities hawking their programs, books, learning programs and other items in either a back-door or blatant way. I know Brandon's not really associated with BP any more but reading the threads on Open Door creates either a bad taste or bad impression on a lot of people and that is really unfortunate, just as one example. Perhaps we (BP, the community) need a better firewall between the visible personalities - podcast hosts, webinar leaders, etc - and those with something to sell. It's not at all unusual for companies to have conflict of interest and ethical contracts or stipulations for its employees or associated vendors.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes2y
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jack Seiden:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jack Seiden - It's tough to hear this feedback.
I, by not paying enough attention to our content engine, allowed us to veer off course, and lost some control over what we published as we scaled to so much content production. I am working hard with a new content team to get this back on track.
Question - do you think that since the beginning of the year (2024), we have largely moved back on the right side of the line in your view? Or are there recent examples of published content by us that you think are inappropriate?
So 1st of all, I should say the reason I bother to point all of this out is I think biggerpockets is a great value, I’ve met multiple people I consider good friends from this site & hate to see it ruined, to be frank I think since around the pandemic bigger pockets has increasingly been on of the bigger although certainly not the only purveyor of what I would basically consider real estate grift, the no money down buy 10 rental properties, just the other day you guys had Dave Meyer who is truly one of favorite real estate commentators on instagram promoting some program to invest in real estate with no money down and no assets, I know Dave likley doesn’t believe any of that and the social team justprobably made him do that, I think the push of sub-2 is a scam that takes advantage of old people and very possibly constitutes mortgage fraud, without naming names I think I number of proment bp personalities can be more or less considered grifters promoting their own stuff, while obsetobly working for bigger pockets, I think a key part of any website is basic editorial control and that bp has failed at thet, sorry if that is harsh but I say it because I care lol.
I think you make some really good points.
It is not an easy task by any means to find & keep good content creators that also have "nothing to sell", so to speak, but in my opinion getting those people and keeping them engaged is a huge part of keeping the site both relevant and trusted. For example, and I know he wouldn't be interested of course :) , but my buddy @Steve Vaughan is a prime example of a great contributor that's not interested in selling anyone anything but just giving away good advice he's compiled over his many years of investing. @Jay Hinrichs; a guy who is still actively doing things but never mentions trying to sell or push anything and has been very giving of his own time (including being a guest at a mastermind group I was part of). @Dave Foster, who is the guy I think of instantly when it comes to 1031 exchange but isn't found anywhere hawking guru courses. Just a couple of names of the dozens - maybe hundreds - that I trust on here whenever I read their posts. I fall into their camp (not the smart guy camp, the guy who has nothing to sell!) - I just enjoy talking and learning about RE. I've never done a 1031 but if I wanted to I've read enough of what Dave's said to feel not only confident that I could get it done but also understand what kind of pitfalls I might be against. Several of our resident CPAs enabled me to learn enough to do a successful cost segregation study on one of our properties. I have no idea where I could have learned that as well as I did on here, for practically free. What's funny is that the main honcho in charge - Scott Trench - I'd trust buying something from him in a second as I think he's genuine & sincere and it's obvious what Josh saw here when he was looking for a successor. Of course, he's not selling anything other than the idea of BP as a trusted RE site, but that depends on a lot of other people.
So I get it when I hear someone say that they cringe when they hear BP podcast hosts or big personalities hawking their programs, books, learning programs and other items in either a back-door or blatant way. I know Brandon's not really associated with BP any more but reading the threads on Open Door creates either a bad taste or bad impression on a lot of people and that is really unfortunate, just as one example. Perhaps we (BP, the community) need a better firewall between the visible personalities - podcast hosts, webinar leaders, etc - and those with something to sell. It's not at all unusual for companies to have conflict of interest and ethical contracts or stipulations for its employees or associated vendors.
Totally agree, and I should add I don’t envy Scott’s job, he’s doing the best he can in a frankly really tough both media space & the rates hikes I can’t imagine have been good for traffic, I think the other thing I should add is I don’t mind people on bp profiting off their work or appearances on bp so as long as they are able to also bring good advice add value, if Dave wants to give great 1031 advice and than charge people for his time great! I think the issue comes frankly when the advice is bad and/or harmful to the audience which is obviously subjective, but someone going on a podcast and telling you how to do a 1031 well to me is a lot different than telling people how to invest in real estate using “other people’s money” or sub-2, I also think the site needs to consider the broader effect on the public with some of thier strategies, for instance I’m not opposed to people buying “off market” if it’s done ethically and with everyone being on the same page, but you tell a broke 22 year old to buy “off market” and they are going to take advantage of old people, I’m not totally confident biggerpockets even understands its own audience, I used to host a real estate meetup, I had to stop because it was literally meeting after meeting if me taking some 22 year old kid out of doing something either stupid or often borderline illegal, it wasn’t fun after a while, but like that’s the core bp audience at this point more so than people like me & you.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.