Realtor is not making me happy

Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 174 posts · 27 votes

New to Grand Rapids mi... I've flipped two houses before and I use the technique ARV*70% - repairs and my realtor is admit that this technique will NOT work here... It's been three months so far (my second realtor) and nothing has come up... I need a place to live ( I refuse to pay rent).. And I'm commuting to gr everyday... Should I alter my technique to find a place to live in? She made me sign buyers papers so I'm looking for some feedback

1 Reply

80 views

Most Popular Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

12y

Hi Drew,

You are looking at it from making a big spread once you find the deal to make it worth your while.

If the offer isn't taken and the agent does the low ball offers over and over they will start getting shunned by their own peers for even getting a response. Back 3 to 5 years ago in frozen markets listing agents were willing to look at anything. Today many are telling the sellers to hold out for something else as the market is improving.

I don't blame you for wanting to find a deal. Sadly many of these agents hope that if they "show you the market" you will come around to a decent price and a closing will occur.

Honestly probate and getting a low price in the 80's is a lot more work for an agent with no money in it.

In the commercial space I get buyers looking for deals as well but the price is in the millions and up. I will scour to find the best property but I am making 5 to 6 figures a check.

I fault these residential agents for saying what the investor wants to here and then complaining later on when they have to perform. A broker/agent should be upfront. If someone comes to me with millions in the bank and says I want a 10 cap large building that is A class in and A area I will say you could have gotten an 8 to 9 or so 4 years ago but that ship has sailed.

Part of it really is the broker/agent if they are good and do it full time are out in the market reviewing properties and pricing EVERYDAY. I know my product and what it will sell for when it comes to triple net or multifamily. If an investor is realistic then I will work with them. If they are so far out there they are looking for a property that we call a "magical unicorn" in the business where it might pop up one in ten thousand properties and there are 50 offers on it that day it's a waste of my time.

As an investor myself I love helping clients as a commercial broker but I also have to make an effective business for myself. I can't do that chasing magical leprechauns.

I think you need to have with this agent a "coming to Jesus" as we call it in the business. You both sit down and say this is where we are at and this is what I want in the relationship. Can you deliver this or not?? If you are not both on the same page then you part ways. If you feel the agent isn't working hard enough to find you the deal and the agent feels you are unreasonable and looking for something that doesn't exist in the market then it won't work out.

I work hard for my clients trying to find the best commercial property. There is a difference between knowing you can find them the best asset if you scour all sources versus looking for something I know is not out there for the return and quality they want. One will happen if I work hard and the other will never happen and I will waste time. You said your other flips were from other markets. Maybe meet up with some other investors in the area at a meeting and you might learn the investors there are working on thinner spreads then where you were doing business before. Not all market work the same even when looking for deals.

Hope it helps from someone with both a broker and an investor perspective.

Podcast Guest on Show #47

NNN Invest53 Reviews

Website View Page

3 Reply

See this reply in the discussion

26 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
@Drew Denham There ARE good deals on the MLS. I've bought somewhere around 30 houses, and most of them have been MLS-listed. BUT, I also became a Realtor myself (you should too by the way). The average Realtor doesn't know where or how to find good deals.
0 Reply
Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
12y
If you're looking for houses in decent/good neighborhoods, without major repairs, in finance lie condition....not likely it will happen. Most sellers have no need to sell for 70% of value.
1 Reply
Drew Denham
OP
Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 174 posts · 27 votes
12y
Wayne Brooks I'm looking at a probate listing which is a complete gut job in a nice area... Highest comp I see is 147$ and this house is listed at 122$...I told her what's the point of my buying this house at 120 and putting 20-30 into it? I should just buy a move I'm ready house... Anyone have experience w probate listings ? I was thinking about starting at 85...
0 Reply
Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
@Drew Denham - Listed at 122 and your offer is going to be 85. That's about 70% of list price. Most Realtors have never made an offer that low. And most would be embarrassed to submit that offer. But that's what you have to do. Make the offer that works for you. How long has this one been on the market and what's the history of the price drops?
1 Reply
Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
12y
While heirs generally want to sell a property, they're like anybody else....some are motivated, some are not realistic.
1 Reply
Drew Denham
OP
Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 174 posts · 27 votes
12y
Wayne Brooks I'm looking at a probate listing which is a complete gut job in a nice area... Highest comp I see is 147$ and this house is listed at 122$...I told her what's the point of my buying this house at 120 and putting 20-30 into it? I should just buy a move I'm ready house... Anyone have experience w probate listings ? I was thinking about starting at 85. Bryan L. .. How would u suggest I approach this? Nice area, compete gut and u are an investor and a realitor... Any suggestions ?
0 Reply
Kirsten Sitnick
Real Estate Agent · Catonsville, MD · Member since 2013 · 25 posts · 15 votes
12y
Hey @Drew Denham

You might also want to check out some private seller auctions. I work for an auction company in Baltimore, and our auctions are not foreclosures/REOs. There's probably something similar in your area. My typical property is an estate, and while the sellers set a reserve (their minimum), they often take what the auction brings even if it doesn't meet their minimum. You're buying with no contingencies and 30 days here, but I do see good deals.

Not every auction is a good deal. Sometimes the bidding goes really high, sometimes it doesn't. Anyway, I think it's worth checking out. Good luck!

--Kirsten
1 Reply
Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
@Drew Denham - Tell your Realtor that you have loan pre-approval or proof of funds and that you would like to make an offer. If he/she balks at the price, tell them that you have repaired and flipped houses before and that you know where you need to be on the price, and this is it. If they won't write the offer, find another Realtor who will.
1 Reply
Walt Payne
Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
12y
@Drew Denham as @Bryan L. said, tell your realtor to submit the offer you feel will work. If they say no, put it in writing, like an email. If they don't, you now have valid grounds to walk away and find a realtor who will.

You would be surprised at what offers will be accepted once submitted. Everyone tries to get the most they can, but eventually they take a lot less if the timing is right and the offer seems the best they will get.
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Drew Denham

From my point of view your personal residence is that a personal residence not a investment property... paying market rate to live in a house you love and a neighborhood you want to be in is just fine.. Then once your established use your time finding other rehab deals instead of commuting to and from work. Even if you pay more than retail.. Or like me Over improve my personal residence I don't care its were I live I am not looking to make money on it.. Now us west coast folks we do make money when the markets ascend like they are doing now.. And we do it by just owning.. talk to anyone who bought in the SF bay area 24 months ago.. Many have seen 100 to 500k in capital growth over that time on their personal residence.. Even here in Oregon which does not move nearly like the bay area we have seen a solid 20% rise in prices across the board.. Some of my new builds that I sold 18months ago are reselling for 75k more than I sold them for. So that's nice those folks are making a little money and moving up or out. depending on the situation.. I would have loved to been able to just hold the lots and build on them this year it would have been a huge profit margin for us.. but you just take profit as it is in what ever market.. Building cost have only risen a little but values have really jumped.. And of course in our market Lot prices have risen. So any builders that have lots that they bought in bottom of the market are killing it right now. But I digress which I often do when I am drinking my coffee
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Jordan Thibodeau
Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 170 votes
12y
One realtor tried to trick me into signing one of these buyers agreements, and I promptly responded.
0 Reply
Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
@Jordan Thibodeau - I would never try to "trick" you into signing a buyer's agency agreement, but I also wouldn't work for you if you didn't sign it.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Bryan L.

I think if your going to work with investors that are serial low ballers a buyers broker agreement would be a must..

Its just like the RE agent that hauls a first time home buyer around for a month shows them 20 houses. Then gets an excited e mail from them about how they stumbled on to this FSBO and they are all excited and "you my agent should be so happy for us" and really not catching a clue that this is devastating to the RE agent who spent all this time and did not get paid.. the first time buyer is clueless many times. When I owned a brokerage I saw many an agent brought to tears over this exact scenario..

with investors its even worse.. there is no loyalty they just want a deal. And they expect a RE broker to be Johnny at the rat hole and then want to rag on them because they aren't doing enough for them blah blah blah.

I personally would never work with an investor without an agreement and a retainer up front. Just not worth it. Mine as well compete against these people and buy the deals ourselves. Like Bryan does...

So that's another side of the coin from a brokers point of view.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Jordan Thibodeau
Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 170 votes
12y
@Bryan L. A realtor spun it as a "Customer Loyalty program" and he wanted me to pay $525.00 document processing fee (Because I guess he needs to be paid twice for doing his job), and and I promptly responded.

It's unethical that buyers would two time their agents by trying to skirt the commission via side negotiations, but I think it's even worse when some realtors lock clients into these programs and fail to perform. Being that you're experienced, I'm sure you do a great job, but it's sad that others fail to produce.
0 Reply
Brock Siebert
Tinton Falls, NJ · Member since 2013 · 55 posts · 14 votes
12y
What's the worst the seller can say? NO?

If its still on the market in a few months then try again or move on!

The realtor is probably embarrassed to make that offer, but sometimes sellers need to hear a few low offers to realize the actual value of the property and then understand who is bringing the best offer. A few more months of utilities and taxes doesn't hurt to soften them up too.
0 Reply
Bryan L.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
12y
@Jay Hinrichs - You're right on target with that. I once worked with some young buyers and showed them several houses in the middle of the stinking cold winter time. Then my uncle passed and I went out of state for a few days for his funeral. I told them what was going on and had a back-up Realtor from my office ready to help them. But no, while I was gone to a stinkin funeral, they went and got another Realtor from another office (not even in our MLS) and wrote an offer and bought a house. That stuff sucks but it happens all the time.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Brock Siebert

Brock realtors are not "embarrassed to make those offers" they just don't want to waste there time..

Now with docusign and hellosign its some what easier.. but in the old days when you have to hand write or type out a contract it takes 20 minutes or so and you as the agent know your wasting your time. Then you have to file it and keep it in your records system for 5 to 6 years.. etc etc. Its a pain not an embarrasement.. And with the low values of houses in many parts of the country your doing all this work for a whopping thousand dollars.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Drew Denham
OP
Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 174 posts · 27 votes
12y
Wayne Brooks I'm looking at a probate listing which is a complete gut job in a nice area... Highest comp I see is 147$ and this house is listed at 122$...I told her what's the point of my buying this house at 120 and putting 20-30 into it? I should just buy a move I'm ready house... Anyone have experience w probate listings ? I was thinking about starting at 85... Bryan L. Before I singed the agreement I told her upfront that I'm a low baller and that I've flipped two houses... So there are no surprises ... I also told her other realtors were contacting me and that i would only work with her... I don't agree with over bidding your personal property... Not looking to loose money ... If that were the case I would be driving a Cadillac vs. Chevrolet ... All the big dog flippers say not to let emotion get involved. My two cents, your in a sales role and it's your job to find the right properties at the price u feel comfortable... Regardless of time spent or invested in the buyers... Commission hungry vs. being passionate about being a realtor..... Opportunity to work with a new investor wor walk away because it's too much work? Just depends how u look at it. I don't feel it's right to feel pressured to buy something just because you have looked at a ton of houses..
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Drew Denham

Every realtors different and presents as their personality dictates. some are super pushing and aggressive some are door mats just like all walks of life.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Drew Denham
OP
Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 174 posts · 27 votes
12y
Wayne Brooks I'm looking at a probate listing which is a complete gut job in a nice area... Highest comp I see is 147$ and this house is listed at 122$...I told her what's the point of my buying this house at 120 and putting 20-30 into it? I should just buy a move I'm ready house... Anyone have experience w probate listings ? I was thinking about starting at 85... I agree... Dont hold me to a buyers agreement if you don't want to put the time or effort in (I'm saying this to her)
1 Reply
Account Closed
Real Estate Agent · Orem, UT · Member since 2012 · 164 posts · 49 votes
12y
Well said Jay Hinrichs
0 Reply
Account Closed
Orlando, FL · Member since 2013 · 165 posts · 62 votes
12y
When you go out and look at owner occupied house do you "visit" with the sellers? If the sellers are there chit chat with them. Ask then where they are moving. Ask them when. Ask them why. Ask them about their grand children and their pets and their job. Ask them about their mortgage. Ask them if they need to sell this house to move. Find out if this is a happy move or a sad move. Ask them if they will hold a mortgage. Bargains are created by circumstances.. Have you talked to the heirs you mentioned? Who is in charge? Who is really in charge? How many heirs are there? Any time you can talk to the owners, talk to them . Get them to like you. Get them to know you. Find out what they want. The Realtor doesn't know. If you want to find bargains, find out about the owners.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Real Estate Agent · Orem, UT · Member since 2012 · 164 posts · 49 votes
12y
Well said Jay Hinrichs - I totally agree about the personal residence issue
0 Reply
Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12y
Hi Drew,

You are looking at it from making a big spread once you find the deal to make it worth your while.

If the offer isn't taken and the agent does the low ball offers over and over they will start getting shunned by their own peers for even getting a response. Back 3 to 5 years ago in frozen markets listing agents were willing to look at anything. Today many are telling the sellers to hold out for something else as the market is improving.

I don't blame you for wanting to find a deal. Sadly many of these agents hope that if they "show you the market" you will come around to a decent price and a closing will occur.

Honestly probate and getting a low price in the 80's is a lot more work for an agent with no money in it.

In the commercial space I get buyers looking for deals as well but the price is in the millions and up. I will scour to find the best property but I am making 5 to 6 figures a check.

I fault these residential agents for saying what the investor wants to here and then complaining later on when they have to perform. A broker/agent should be upfront. If someone comes to me with millions in the bank and says I want a 10 cap large building that is A class in and A area I will say you could have gotten an 8 to 9 or so 4 years ago but that ship has sailed.

Part of it really is the broker/agent if they are good and do it full time are out in the market reviewing properties and pricing EVERYDAY. I know my product and what it will sell for when it comes to triple net or multifamily. If an investor is realistic then I will work with them. If they are so far out there they are looking for a property that we call a "magical unicorn" in the business where it might pop up one in ten thousand properties and there are 50 offers on it that day it's a waste of my time.

As an investor myself I love helping clients as a commercial broker but I also have to make an effective business for myself. I can't do that chasing magical leprechauns.

I think you need to have with this agent a "coming to Jesus" as we call it in the business. You both sit down and say this is where we are at and this is what I want in the relationship. Can you deliver this or not?? If you are not both on the same page then you part ways. If you feel the agent isn't working hard enough to find you the deal and the agent feels you are unreasonable and looking for something that doesn't exist in the market then it won't work out.

I work hard for my clients trying to find the best commercial property. There is a difference between knowing you can find them the best asset if you scour all sources versus looking for something I know is not out there for the return and quality they want. One will happen if I work hard and the other will never happen and I will waste time. You said your other flips were from other markets. Maybe meet up with some other investors in the area at a meeting and you might learn the investors there are working on thinner spreads then where you were doing business before. Not all market work the same even when looking for deals.

Hope it helps from someone with both a broker and an investor perspective.
Podcast Guest on Show #47
NNN Invest53 Reviews
Website View Page
3 Reply
Rick H.
Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
I've never really thought in terms of whether an agent makes me happy (or not). What I suggest is that you think of agents as human media similar to a land line phone with a bit if static in the background. The connection may be bad and difficult to understand. (And sometimes you've gotta hit em of the edge of a hard table).

Agent doesn't care about making a buyer happy. They just want to complete a deal with the least path of resistance, legally, ethically and get paid.

Although I'm not keen on sports metaphors, I think of this business as having a limited number of home runs on the front end. The rest are little RBI's that pay the bills.

When real estate is hot and in a sellers markets, profit margins tend to get compressed. Buying off the MLS may be possible however each and every situation will probably be an anomaly, and require a different set of tools and skills to identify and exploit the opportunity.

Real estate investors, like most people, have a natural tendency to want to use what has worked in the past and rely on proven experience. When the market is strong, the old methods (foreclosure sale, short sale, REO, etc.) leave little chance of applying the '70% - fix up' formula on but a few listings.

Same with probate listings. Despite what most people believe, only a handful of probate sales are distressed property situations, at least in my farm (CA, with a Statewide population of 38 Million +).

I say, if you're looking for happy endings, your real estate agent is not the place to start.
1 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.