When is enough enough? How many homes does one need!?

When is enough enough? How many homes does one need!?

Rental Property Investor · Larkspur, CO · Member since 2018 · 198 posts · 179 votes

Perhaps I have an inner socialist I’m not aware of, but I have to ask the community, when is enough enough as it pertains to number of units owned?

How often they ask on the podcasts “where are you going from here?” And the answer is something like “oh, we plan to have 500 doors” or 1500, or whatever. To me that qualifies as greed if I’m speaking honestly. Why on earth would you want so many units!? I can see it if they’re lower income apartments and/or you’re syndicating, bit that’s not what I’m talkig about here.

Another case in point; Invitation homes. 82,000 units they own and rent! Ridiculous. 

The world would be a better place (I’d argue) if so many weren’t trying to commoditize or hoard everything. Honestly, that’s 20,500 families who could otherwise gain substantial financial stability through owning four rental properties each. I hate the concept of “fairness” and all that is embodied by socialism, but at some point this sort of behavior shoud fall under antitrust laws and be illegal. At some point I’d think that there’s a reasonable (high) standard of living and anything beyond that is just sheer excess. It’s as if we as a society don’t want a solid middle class. Why not step aside at some point and let the next guy have a little easier time of it? Seems the right mentality. 

Is it just me???

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Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y

@David S. if you feel that being very wealthy automatically makes someone greedy or evil, then it is highly unlikely that you will ever achieve wealth. So, you don't have to worry about how much is enough because you will stop sooner than later. For me, being very wealthy means security from evil and greed. I do not have to be a victim of someone else because wealth give me choices. If at some point I gain so much wealth that I cannot possibly spend it, then there isn't much else to do except give lots of money away. The super rich don't just give money to charity, they start charitable foundations. You will have a hard time finding wealthy people who don't give. You can't give what you don't have, so being poor is not more noble. Socialism only benefits the government, not the people.

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  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @David S.,

    I'm no where near 500, let alone 1500.. lol my rentals are still in the double digits, not triple.    Just food for thought,  have you ever thought that for some people, it's not so much about the money, and more about doing good?    Me and my partner get asked, when will you stop?  do you have a goal?  My answer... "why would we stop?" 

    At first, it was about the money, but then you hit that goal,  and then the next, and then it becomes bigger than money.   In us buying houses, we're improving an area, improving the neighborhood, making each house better-- one at a time.  We're doing great things, yes-- we're making good money, but on the flip side.. we're doing really wonderful things that help not only our bottom line, but the morale and livelihood of an area.      Don't even get me started about paying our contractors/employees--- wonderful  people who I'm happy to pay!    Good money going to good people! 

    Everyone thinks of the landlords as these rich a$$holes, but have you ever thought-- they care, and are using their resources to better not only themselves, but their chosen  investment area/community?

  • Northville, MI · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 0 votes
    8y
    @David Smit Why would you limit yourself? There are so many other self limiting phenomena, why would you get all hung up on if you own too much rental property First you have to 1500 doors to even find out it you have too much income theorizing about has little value.
  • Vandalia, MI · Member since 2018 · 569 posts · 264 votes
    8y

    I don't think that our system s the best in the world.  I think it is next to one of the worsts anywhere.  That is why we are so heavily invested in by foreigners. Having said that the wheel is turning, either jump on or off.  As for greed, I think it is a morality issue or maybe even one of ethical behavior. 

    But, I am in the wheel kicking myself to make a few dollars so I can eat. I have zero rental properties. I do help others get loans so they can make their dreams a Reality. 

    Some people's dreams are not the same.   

  • Rental Property Investor · Hoschton, GA · Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 32 votes
    8y
    @David Smit Assuming you’re right (which I don’t), the key question is who determines how much is enough? What if the same argument was used against you by someone of lesser means? How many TV’s, cars, clothes are enough? Capitalism is extremely flawed but it’s the best system we have. Central planned economic systems just don’t work.
  • Rental Property Investor · Julian, NC · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 100 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Linda S.:

    @David S.,

    I'm no where near 500, let alone 1500.. lol my rentals are still in the double digits, not triple.    Just food for thought,  have you ever thought that for some people, it's not so much about the money, and more about doing good?    Me and my partner get asked, when will you stop?  do you have a goal?  My answer... "why would we stop?" 

    At first, it was about the money, but then you hit that goal,  and then the next, and then it becomes bigger than money.   In us buying houses, we're improving an area, improving the neighborhood, making each house better-- one at a time.  We're doing great things, yes-- we're making good money, but on the flip side.. we're doing really wonderful things that help not only our bottom line, but the morale and livelihood of an area.      Don't even get me started about paying our contractors/employees--- wonderful  people who I'm happy to pay!    Good money going to good people! 

    Everyone thinks of the landlords as these rich a$$holes, but have you ever thought-- they care, and are using their resources to better not only themselves, but their chosen  investment area/community?

  • Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2013 · 20 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    You need as many as possible.  You either grow or contract . If you have the ability to create thousands of jobs and great housing why would you stop at  4 units . 

  • Investor · Saint Charles, MO · Member since 2016 · 118 posts · 91 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Michele B.:

    I don't think that our system s the best in the world.  I think it is next to one of the worsts anywhere.  That is why we are so heavily invested in by foreigners.    

    Foreign investment in an economy is a sign of health and of freedom to trade (buying and selling). It adds to a robust economy. Foreigners may have products that add value or can be made for less money and we benefit from that. 

    Check out Venezuelan socialism, not much foreign investment there and they lack basic groceries. 

  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    8y
    @David Smit I understand what you’re trying to say and its A fUN tOPIC . ITS been interesting reading everyones outlook on it. I think this is more of an opportunity to introinspect. If you see a guy driving a lamborguini what is your first thought? Some will think gee i wonder what he does. Maybe i can ask him and learn something. Some will say look at this attention junkie. What a duoche. Truth is i WORK HARD TO BE THE FIRST GUY.we all carry defects of character. You choose what to feed. I dont believe entitlement works. I come from a socialist country. Eventually people get dragged down not carried up with that mentality. The true journey in a career of real estate FOR ME is to become a little wiser, achieve fiNAnCIAL InDEPENDENCENe AND HOPE TO GIVE MY CHILDREN A BETTER LIFE THAN I HAD , SAME AS MY PARENTS TRIED DOInG WITH ME. Self righteous ego trips can be dressed up with pretty words from anyone here including me. Truth be told I battle with greed from a place of financial fear. I try my best to have faith and in turn i dont act out on greed. Pigs get fed and hogs get slaughtered in this business. When i judge someones character based on their success whether a homeless person or a fellow sUCCESFUL investor , i immediately look within and try to correct that thought process. This isnt a personal attack as honestly i dont know you personally. SORRY FOR CAPs. pHONE IS GLITcHY. iLL gET a nEW oNE whEN i GET TO 25 DOORS tHIS mONtH LOL.
  • Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 846 votes
    8y

    @David S.

    I think for me enough is more defined by a dollar amount than a number of doors. I want to make $8000/month in properties that I own without business partners. With business partners each group has its own goals. 

    What I will say is that I want that $8000 with as few units as possible while still being in decent areas. More units=more brain power. 

    I'm looking at an average of $200/door, so that would put me at 40 doors. Then I can grow the businesses however I please. BUT if I can do better than that on less doors then I've accomplished my goals. I agree with you where for me there's a certain stopping point that I don't want anymore. But I've been more motivated by financial independence than anything else. Others have different motivations and I'm not here to say that their goals are wrong. Everything is individual. 

  • Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @David S.:

    Perhaps I have an inner socialist I’m not aware of, but I have to ask the community, when is enough enough as it pertains to number of units owned?

    How often they ask on the podcasts “where are you going from here?” And the answer is something like “oh, we plan to have 500 doors” or 1500, or whatever. To me that qualifies as greed if I’m speaking honestly. Why on earth would you want so many units!? I can see it if they’re lower income apartments and/or you’re syndicating, bit that’s not what I’m talkig about here.

    Another case in point; Invitation homes. 82,000 units they own and rent! Ridiculous. 

    The world would be a better place (I’d argue) if so many weren’t trying to commoditize or hoard everything. Honestly, that’s 20,500 families who could otherwise gain substantial financial stability through owning four rental properties each. I hate the concept of “fairness” and all that is embodied by socialism, but at some point this sort of behavior shoud fall under antitrust laws and be illegal. At some point I’d think that there’s a reasonable (high) standard of living and anything beyond that is just sheer excess. It’s as if we as a society don’t want a solid middle class. Why not step aside at some point and let the next guy have a little easier time of it? Seems the right mentality. 

    Is it just me???

     Why inner.. You sound like a full blown case of Bernie Sanderism... You get only 1 chance at life.. Dream as big as you can, then bigger.. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 134 posts · 61 votes
    8y

    Tell me why is greed a bad thing? How many ideas and products have been created because of greed? This country was founded on greed. Its not a bad thing. 

    That is a very limited mindset in my opinion.....

  • Investor · Crystal, MN · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 277 votes
    8y

    @David S.

    How much is enough is an excellent question.  Each of us has been given something by God that is amazing...the ability to choose.  We have free will, and in that amazing gift, we all have the opportunity to pursue x,y,z.  Life is an amazing gift.  How much is enough?  I have long believed if you can take a hot shower each day, your are a rich person.   So, even before I earned one dime in real estate, I was already rich.  Continue to struggle with this, David.  There is wisdom in your question.

  • Yuma, AZ · Member since 2015 · 140 posts · 137 votes
    8y
    I'm happy with what I have . I only have 8 paid off rentals and couple notes I carry. My personal safe goal is 15 all paid with cash. Bring on the next bubble won't even phase me.
  • Specialist · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2016 · 187 posts · 128 votes
    8y

    So how many cars should Toyota sell?

    How many gallons of Milk should Borden's produce?

    How many hospital beds should Tenet own?

    Do you really needs a 3 egg omelette?

    greed is about selfishness or an excessive concern for one's own needs not about the accumulation of anything.  If you are buying units for the purpose of keeping  them from someone else, then I suppose you are greedy.  Ofcourse in that case, the investor would be more stupid than anything else so in all likelihood the market would deal with him/her in its own just way wouldn't it?   

  • Rental Property Investor · Larkspur, CO · Member since 2018 · 198 posts · 179 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Chinmay J.:
    Originally posted by @David S.:

    Perhaps I have an inner socialist I’m not aware of, but I have to ask the community, when is enough enough as it pertains to number of units owned?

    How often they ask on the podcasts “where are you going from here?” And the answer is something like “oh, we plan to have 500 doors” or 1500, or whatever. To me that qualifies as greed if I’m speaking honestly. Why on earth would you want so many units!? I can see it if they’re lower income apartments and/or you’re syndicating, bit that’s not what I’m talkig about here.

    Another case in point; Invitation homes. 82,000 units they own and rent! Ridiculous. 

    The world would be a better place (I’d argue) if so many weren’t trying to commoditize or hoard everything. Honestly, that’s 20,500 families who could otherwise gain substantial financial stability through owning four rental properties each. I hate the concept of “fairness” and all that is embodied by socialism, but at some point this sort of behavior shoud fall under antitrust laws and be illegal. At some point I’d think that there’s a reasonable (high) standard of living and anything beyond that is just sheer excess. It’s as if we as a society don’t want a solid middle class. Why not step aside at some point and let the next guy have a little easier time of it? Seems the right mentality. 

    Is it just me???

     Why inner.. You sound like a full blown case of Bernie Sanderism... You get only 1 chance at life.. Dream as big as you can, then bigger.. 

    “Why do you need a yooough number of rentals?!?!” 

    Now you’re right.

  • Rental Property Investor · Larkspur, CO · Member since 2018 · 198 posts · 179 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @David Moore:

    @David S.

    How much is enough is an excellent question.  Each of us has been given something by God that is amazing...the ability to choose.  We have free will, and in that amazing gift, we all have the opportunity to pursue x,y,z.  Life is an amazing gift.  How much is enough?  I have long believed if you can take a hot shower each day, your are a rich person.   So, even before I earned one dime in real estate, I was already rich.  Continue to struggle with this, David.  There is wisdom in your question.

    I love the humility Mr Moore. The higher you set your standards the more you’re likely to be unhappy in life even if you attain them; mentality and humility are a big factor in fulfilment. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Larkspur, CO · Member since 2018 · 198 posts · 179 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Eric Jacobs:

    So how many cars should Toyota sell?

    How many gallons of Milk should Borden's produce?

    How many hospital beds should Tenet own?

    Do you really needs a 3 egg omelette?

    greed is about selfishness or an excessive concern for one's own needs not about the accumulation of anything.  If you are buying units for the purpose of keeping  them from someone else, then I suppose you are greedy.  Ofcourse in that case, the investor would be more stupid than anything else so in all likelihood the market would deal with him/her in its own just way wouldn't it?   

    Indeed, we saw that with the sub-prime collapse. I posted a follow up on a new thread that addresses your other points btw. Thanks

  • Grandville, MI · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    8y
    @David Smit the fact that the states aren’t a socialist society only makes America the reason why it’s the best. If there were limits you’re telling me you would enjoy the journey before getting cut off!? An open mind of possibilities are what drives us in the beginning! Just my opinion, I hope it’s okay I give another perspective! Looking at different ideas is awesome!
  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    8y

    Interesting Philosophy!

    Suppose that Sarah and John both enter their adult lives making the same income, and work at the same job, right across from one another. 

    Suppose that Sarah spends her commute listening to the BiggerPockets Podcast, drives a 2000 Honda Civic, and buys first a house-hack, then a duplex, then 100 doors over 15 years. 

    Suppose that John drives a Lexus, listens to Taylor Swift while driving it, and buys a fancy home in a nice neighborhood. 

    After 15 years, Sarah builds a net worth of nearly $4M and $200,000 in her checking account.

    John is worth $100,000, with $80,000 in home equity, $15,000 in his 401(k), and $5,000 in his checking account. 

    Sarah is a multimillionaire with 100 doors, and more cash flow than she even wants to spend.

    John is living paycheck to paycheck and spends more to maintain his lifestyle than Sarah.

    Who is greedy? 

    Should Sarah give John some of her money and support his lifestyle? 

    I believe that you'll be far more successful in your search for human greed by looking at individuals with moderately high incomes and little net worth than you will by examining the motivations of self-made millionaires who built their fortunes investing in real estate. 

  • Chandler, AZ · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 269 votes
    8y

    This reminds me of a thing I've been pondering lately. I think REI is amazing and I truely wish that everyone could do it and become independently wealthy and exit the rat race. But the moment I buy my first rental I've excluded at least one other person from being able to do that. (Because I now own his house! ;) ) REI is a bit of a zero-sum game. But just because the game is stupid doesn't mean I shouldn't be playing to win.

    Anyway, it's not just about me.  I have two daughters, and 2 grandsons, and I'll likely end up with the average 4.  Once I have "enough" for me and my wife, then I start working on enough for my 2 kids, then enough for my 4 grandkids, etc.  I can imagine thinking someday that I've provided enough for my progeny.  But I imagine I'll just shift my focus to my community, schools, veterans, etc.

  • Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 491 votes
    8y

    Everyone has the same opportunity to learn, network, save and purchase units.  There is plenty of deals out there for people that are willing to grind.  People that hustle and kill it just make me want to get after it harder.

  • Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @David S.:
    Originally posted by @Chinmay J.:
    Originally posted by @David S.:

    Perhaps I have an inner socialist I’m not aware of, but I have to ask the community, when is enough enough as it pertains to number of units owned?

    How often they ask on the podcasts “where are you going from here?” And the answer is something like “oh, we plan to have 500 doors” or 1500, or whatever. To me that qualifies as greed if I’m speaking honestly. Why on earth would you want so many units!? I can see it if they’re lower income apartments and/or you’re syndicating, bit that’s not what I’m talkig about here.

    Another case in point; Invitation homes. 82,000 units they own and rent! Ridiculous. 

    The world would be a better place (I’d argue) if so many weren’t trying to commoditize or hoard everything. Honestly, that’s 20,500 families who could otherwise gain substantial financial stability through owning four rental properties each. I hate the concept of “fairness” and all that is embodied by socialism, but at some point this sort of behavior shoud fall under antitrust laws and be illegal. At some point I’d think that there’s a reasonable (high) standard of living and anything beyond that is just sheer excess. It’s as if we as a society don’t want a solid middle class. Why not step aside at some point and let the next guy have a little easier time of it? Seems the right mentality. 

    Is it just me???

     Why inner.. You sound like a full blown case of Bernie Sanderism... You get only 1 chance at life.. Dream as big as you can, then bigger.. 

    “Why do you need a yooough number of rentals?!?!” 

    Now you’re right.

     Need...No...Basic needs in life are very few.. Food, Medicine, 1 Roof over your head.. Want.. Yes..   That was lame BTW..  So is your question.. 

  • Investor · Ridgecrest, CA · Member since 2017 · 246 posts · 120 votes
    8y
    It's capitalism. My personal goal is 6 figures of passive income so I can retire from my day job. I've estimated it will take around 30 doors at my current cash flow numbers. But I am enjoying the hunt and I will likely continue buying properties after I retire.
  • Real Estate Investor · Flushing, NY · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 77 votes
    8y
    @David Smit Why do you care how other people invest? Why does it bother you?
  • Real Estate Investor · Flushing, NY · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 77 votes
    8y
    @David Smit Bill Manaserro from the Old Dawg Network invests so he can be a philanthropist... You gotta have money to do good in the world too... So ridiculous to call it “greed” when you know nothing about the person’s situation.
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