Cringeworthy self promotion on BP
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Investor 路 Dallas, TX 路 Member since 2009 路 718 posts 路 913 votes
6y@Jeff C., Yep, there are definitely some cringeworthy threads going on. I think BP does an overall good job of keeping the marketing in marketplace, but you can tell a lot of these posters are pushing it right to the line. There's one in particular right now who, if you accept his boasting, is approaching Buffett-like heights of investing yet still somehow manages to find time to write all of his self-promoting posts while adding almost zero value in terms of content. It's like only he has the secret sauce and supernatural insight and the only logical conclusion is to see if you can offer him money and hopefully he will let you invest with him. Pass.
126 Replies
- Investor 路 Dallas, TX 路 Member since 2009 路 718 posts 路 913 votes6y
@Jeff C., Yep, there are definitely some cringeworthy threads going on. I think BP does an overall good job of keeping the marketing in marketplace, but you can tell a lot of these posters are pushing it right to the line. There's one in particular right now who, if you accept his boasting, is approaching Buffett-like heights of investing yet still somehow manages to find time to write all of his self-promoting posts while adding almost zero value in terms of content. It's like only he has the secret sauce and supernatural insight and the only logical conclusion is to see if you can offer him money and hopefully he will let you invest with him. Pass.
- Rental Property Investor 路 RVA 路 Member since 2016 路 5k+ posts 路 4k+ votes6y
I've seen quite a bit of this as well. Everything from soft offers to complete violations of the "No advertising or public solicitation" requirement the SEC puts on 506(b) syndications. I find it very off-putting. If I saw one of my partners demonstrating such a clear lack of understanding of securities laws they would not be my partner for much longer.
- 6yJeff C.Real Estate Broker 路 Bakersfield, CA 路 Member since 2018 路 269 posts 路 597 votesOP
@John Chapman @Taylor L. I knew it couldn't just be me. Glad I'm not alone! I've been thinking about posting about this for awhile, but I never seem to get around to it. In fact I never seem to get around to posting much of anything, because when you're actually doing deals there isn't a ton of time to get online and tell people about it all day.. that is of course unless the telling people about it part is actually more the business plan than the doing deals part.
- Investor 路 Baltimore, MD 路 Member since 2008 路 17k+ posts 路 13k+ votes6y
You can report posts here that you think are inappropriate or break the rules.
If you hover your cursor over the three green dots to the upper right of a thread you can move down to "Report Abuse"
- Rental Property Investor 路 TN 路 Member since 2018 路 2k+ posts 路 2k+ votes6y
Add to the poster's lack of following the rules, BP does nothing to vet any member (not saying they should) so if one pays a fee they are a PRO. IF they say they have 1.5 billion in real estate, some newbies think they know what they are doing and get suckered in.
Maybe BP should consider a post area where folks can have threads and market themselves and their services AFTER some basic things are verified in a special section like the marketplace. OR BP should delete these self serving threads.
It is annoying to watch these folks sucker in the newbies. Just as annoying to me as seeing the folks that want to know how to get rich fast using someone else's assets.
- Rental Property Investor 路 Member since 2019 路 56 posts 路 24 votes6y
What a relief, I thought I was the only one getting tired of this kind of stuff on here.
- Handyman 路 Pittsburgh, PA 路 Member since 2018 路 5k+ posts 路 13k+ votes6y
Where it bugs me is the local forum. I live in a crappy little city that's dying by inches. I know it's a crappy little city. I've spent years studying its fundamental crappiness. I know how disgusting the food is, how ignorant the general population is, the crumbling infrastructure, the systemic racism, the persistent problems of the area. I've built my business model around how crappy this city is. It's paying off.
Then there are these disingenuous sleazeballs in the local forum who sing the praises of this place, try to pass it off as a city striding forward confidently to meet an ever-brighter future. They're always real estate agents looking for OOS money.
- Rental Property Investor 路 Erie, PA 路 Member since 2018 路 6k+ posts 路 9k+ votes6y
I get annoyed by the fake friend requests who are actually just predatory lenders that want me to buy. They are even so bold as to have a back and fourth dialogue till they reveal their true intentions . Charlatans, the lot of them
- Investor 路 Boston, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 1k+ posts 路 3k+ votes6y
I have noticed this about BP for awhile and it has recently crept into the forums. I think the golden age where the forums was just a bunch of RE nerds who really liked talking to other RE nerds about investing and helping others is coming to a close. No one in particular's fault, simply a bunch of factors coming together. The two big ones I see:
1. BP took Private Equity money and now they have have bosses and those bosses like to have as much stable recurring revenue as they can. That means BP needs to monetizes as many users as they can. They do that in the forums through the memberships and by giving access to lots and lots of people who are interested in RE to people who make their living off of people who are interested in RE: agents, wholesalers, turnkey, syndicators and the like, all who will pay lots of $$ to get their product in front of eyeballs. Of course this comes with a free rider problem where people will use the forums to start "discussions" about inflammatory/absurd/ feel good topics that they know will get lots of views which they hope convert to active leads for their business.
2. The market is in such a place where if you have a pulse you can get great returns with a modicum of skill and/or if you bought in 2009-13 you can confuse luck with skill because you have made tons of cash. C'es la vie. This optimism drives lots of new people into the market, which reinforces the feedback loop I mentioned above.
Anyway, I too was annoyed by this for awhile. I have come to accept it for what it is. BP still has lots of great folks to interact with, learn from, and help. At the end of the day it is a hell of a lot better than most social media platforms and we are lucky to have it.
- Rental Property Investor 路 Douglas County, MO 路 Member since 2014 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes6y
Eh, I treat them kind of like robo-calls. They're annoying, but all I have to do is hang up. There is no one forcing me to read posts on BP. The braggarts are pretty obvious, which makes it easy to skip their posts. Sometimes I'm tempted to reply, pointing out the emptiness and narcissism in their posts, but that is as futile as replying to a robo-call.
- 6yJeff C.Real Estate Broker 路 Bakersfield, CA 路 Member since 2018 路 269 posts 路 597 votesOP
Originally posted by @Bill F.:
I have noticed this about BP for awhile and it has recently crept into the forums. I think the golden age where the forums was just a bunch of RE nerds who really liked talking to other RE nerds about investing and helping others is coming to a close. No one in particular's fault, simply a bunch of factors coming together. The two big ones I see:
1. BP took Private Equity money and now they have have bosses and those bosses like to have as much stable recurring revenue as they can. That means BP needs to monetizes as many users as they can. They do that in the forums through the memberships and by giving access to lots and lots of people who are interested in RE to people who make their living off of people who are interested in RE: agents, wholesalers, turnkey, syndicators and the like, all who will pay lots of $$ to get their product in front of eyeballs. Of course this comes with a free rider problem where people will use the forums to start "discussions" about inflammatory/absurd/ feel good topics that they know will get lots of views which they hope convert to active leads for their business.
2. The market is in such a place where if you have a pulse you can get great returns with a modicum of skill and/or if you bought in 2009-13 you can confuse luck with skill because you have made tons of cash. C'es la vie. This optimism drives lots of new people into the market, which reinforces the feedback loop I mentioned above.
Anyway, I too was annoyed by this for awhile. I have come to accept it for what it is. BP still has lots of great folks to interact with, learn from, and help. At the end of the day it is a hell of a lot better than most social media platforms and we are lucky to have it.
Hey Bill, you are absolutely right that all of this is symptomatic of late stage of the market cycle we're in. I would deviate from your second point just slightly in that I would say that the market WAS such that anyone with a pulse could have pulled great returns over the last 8-9 years. Investors are all geniuses when the market does their job for them by moving in only one direction. A blind monkey could have thrown a dart at the real estate listings section of the newspaper in 2010-2011 and if you bought whatever it hit, you would have done well. However this set of circumstances simply is not going to replicate itself going forward, and anyone whose claim to fame is having bought something with absolute maximum leverage in 2011 and having it happen to work out is going to have to rework that business model going forward. Sadly, many of them are now doing all their deals with other investors money and those other investors will be the ones who suffer the hubris of the sponsors. When a large percentage of moves are being made with OPM by folks somehow or another collecting fees from assets under management, it causes all kinds of market distortions.
The investing world is littered with the bleached carcasses of investors who took on highly levered positions and had the market move against them. Most of them never tell their stories, whether due to embarrassment, or the fact that book publishers aren't clamoring for feel bad stories about losing. There's a great survivorship bias in investor tales. There is also a huge bubble again in the idea of real estate investment currently. Much more so than in real estate itself. Every person in the hood with no money, no education and no experience thinks they're going to be a real estate investor. Anyone who has actually done a deal is ready to guru them. For the moment, the industry has jumped the shark. You can't buy a property for any less than the dumbest person running around putting in offers, and the bottom of the barrel has never been lower than it is now.
- Handyman 路 Pittsburgh, PA 路 Member since 2018 路 5k+ posts 路 13k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jeff C.:
For the moment, the industry has jumped the shark. You can't buy a property for any less than the dumbest person running around putting in offers, and the bottom of the barrel has never been lower than it is now.Just a technical point, Jeff. This country did go through a series of land rushes.
- Rental Property Investor 路 Navarre, FL 路 Member since 2019 路 913 posts 路 640 votes6y
Originally posted by @John Chapman:
@Jeff C., Yep, there are definitely some cringeworthy threads going on. I think BP does an overall good job of keeping the marketing in marketplace, but you can tell a lot of these posters are pushing it right to the line. There's one in particular right now who, if you accept his boasting, is approaching Buffett-like heights of investing yet still somehow manages to find time to write all of his self-promoting posts while adding almost zero value in terms of content. It's like only he has the secret sauce and supernatural insight and the only logical conclusion is to see if you can offer him money and hopefully he will let you invest with him. Pass.
Nailed it. I made it almost to the bottom of the first page before I tapped out. How many replies to a thread does one have to make to have the 'secret formula' revealed. Blah. Load of hot toss, no help there.
To be completely honest, I was only following along til I found some good negatives on it. I didn't grow up on cool aid.
- Rental Property Investor 路 Sioux Falls, SD 路 Member since 2015 路 9k+ posts 路 18k+ votes6y
I encourage you all to do one of two things when you find a post like this.
1. Report the post as @Ned Carey suggested.
2. Call out the poster and make them defend themselves.
This forum is actively moderated and you may be shocked how many posts are hidden and how many users are blocked. Some of the posts walk the line of self promotion and as moderators we often give people latitude, because we are not here to censor.
As this platform has seen success, it has attracted more people looking to profit. That is really unavoidable as any platform grows. We just need to work together as a community to keep the scammers at bay. Great discussion, thanks for raising it @Jeff C.
- Investor 路 Dallas, TX 路 Member since 2009 路 718 posts 路 913 votes6y
@Joe Splitrock I think you nailed it. I don't think the people I'm thinking of are scammers, so much as cringe-inducing self-promoters. They are very slick and get right up to the line. (I'll say again I think you guys do a good job of moderating, particularly as to scammers) I don't see a way around giving them latitude as you're just censoring if you just start booting them or taking down their posts, and that's a whole other can of worms. These posters are more annoying than anything else and I don't think there's anything to do about it, other than, as you say, challenge them in the forums.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes6y
A couple of thoughts:
1. Success brings issues; that's no different for BP than anything else. People are attracted to successful anything, and that includes forums. Some of those people will be scammers. That's just a fact of life.
2. The alternative is to belong to no forum, or to smaller forums that may be able to "sniff-out" people better because of intimacy but lose the diversity of ideas and views that come with having more voices.
3. Posts only exist as long as people are participating. No replies means the thread quickly fades into oblivion. Thus, an easy solution to bum threads is to ignore them and let them die.
4. "Vetting" posters in some official capacity sounds good in theory but would be difficult in practice. Besides, who's to say that my post would be better than a neophyte just because I have experience? Maybe my post would be too jaded or colored by my own experiences and biases to see another side of the issue.
Bottom line is that the more "good" people post and participate, the more watered-out the charlatans will become. Staff & moderators do their best to clamp down on obvious rule violations but there's no way everything will be caught, nor is it necessarily so great to clamp down so tightly on posts that everything has to be screened through the censorship board.
Skyline Properties - Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients 路 Member since 2014 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes6y
Report that ish.
This time of year like 500,000 new "accountants" show up on BP and immediately self market.
PM me to help you
You can reach out and I'll explain it.
Nope.
You can get reported and then go read the rules you damn shark. Offer some friggin value.
- Member since 2019 路 94 posts 路 75 votes6y
@Jeff Cagle let me play devil's advocate.
I get what everyone is saying but I've also learned a lot from posts that some are probably categorizing in this way.
I don't want anyone to get scammed bit not everyone is scamming. Some are just doing common sense marketing that actually provides value to everyone and maybe 1% of the readers will actually end up investing with them.
These posts helped go from 1 home to soon to be a over $1M in cash flowing assets in a year.
Maybe I should write a book 馃槄
I mean even Bigger Pockets materials are marketed in the same manner.
I couldn't even finish the house hacking book as it was just.
The same stuff we've read rehashed over and over for like 200 pages.
- Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients 路 Member since 2014 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Trent Chance:
@Jeff Cagle let me play devil's advocate.
I get what everyone is saying but I've also learned a lot from posts that some are probably categorizing in this way.
I don't want anyone to get scammed bit not everyone is scamming. Some are just doing common sense marketing that actually provides value to everyone and maybe 1% of the readers will actually end up investing with them.
These posts helped go from 1 home to soon to be a over $1M in cash flowing assets in a year.
Maybe I should write a book 馃槄
I mean even Bigger Pockets materials are marketed in the same manner.
I couldn't even finish the house hacking book as it was just.
The same stuff we've read rehashed over and over for like 200 pages.
I mean yes- Bigger pockets is allowed to market it's own products on it's website.
It's site rule though that you can't do self promo.
If you just offer genuine helpful responses to people people will organically reach out and want to work with you.
Be a farmer- not a hunter. Plant seeds, offer value, and results/ leads will come from it.
Don't jump on people and murder them with your service pitch like a hunter.
- Member since 2019 路 94 posts 路 75 votes6y
@Natalie Kolodij I get this and expected this response.
I guess what I'm getting at is I know at least one of the members being alluded too here and they are genuine and their free advice has helped me jumpstart a life that will alter my wife and I's entire future.
And I've continued to get advice even after stating that I will not be investing in others' deals because my money is tied up in my own.
Often times passion for industry, passion for teaching and passion for succeeding aren't exclusive from each other and easily separable. I know cause my mind works in a similar fashion.
I'm a major skeptic and analytical but if something is 25% promotion by nature and 75% inspiring that's pretty typical and something I'm thankful for when it comes from a genuine heart 鉂わ笍
- 6yRussell CazeaultPro MemberContractor 路 Osterville, MA 路 Member since 2018 路 41 posts 路 30 votes
@Jeff Cagle
I think people only hurt themselves when they do this, pretending to offer advise, only to be here with an ulterior motive.
... btw I have some ginsu knifes for sale. These aren鈥檛 just any knife. You can use them for a rehab to scrape up old linoleum floors, cut and patch drywall, scrape loose lead paint and more. You can also cut bread, steak, lettuce and cook with them at the end of the day.
Respond now and I鈥檒l throw in an extra pair
- 6yJeff C.Real Estate Broker 路 Bakersfield, CA 路 Member since 2018 路 269 posts 路 597 votesOP
Originally posted by @Trent Chance:
@Natalie Kolodij I get this and expected this response.
I guess what I'm getting at is I know at least one of the members being alluded too here and they are genuine and their free advice has helped me jumpstart a life that will alter my wife and I's entire future.
And I've continued to get advice even after stating that I will not be investing in others' deals because my money is tied up in my own.
Often times passion for industry, passion for teaching and passion for succeeding aren't exclusive from each other and easily separable. I know cause my mind works in a similar fashion.
I'm a major skeptic and analytical but if something is 25% promotion by nature and 75% inspiring that's pretty typical and something I'm thankful for when it comes from a genuine heart 鉂わ笍
What you're missing is that the 75% that's inspiring is often sugar coated BS, and what you think you've come to know from these advertisements disguised as editorials may not be true. Read every word knowing that you're being sold. Also keep in mind that there are lots of things that were chosen to NOT be included, because you are being sold.
- 6yPeter TverdovBusiness MemberDeveloper 路 New Brunswick, NJ 路 Member since 2015 路 1k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
This goes on in pretty much every sub-forum on this site. From capital raising, to wholesalers, to property managers, to SEO people. A lot of these people use canned responses that they just cut and paste over and over again. It's meant to drive clicks to their profile and website. I understand why they do it, but it's annoying once you see what they're doing is not meant to add meaningful discussion.
- Member since 2019 路 94 posts 路 75 votes6y
@Jeff C. like I mentioned I understand this. But online marketing 101 is to provide up front value for free. Some of these posts provide none. Others provide remarkable value that can be used independently for anyone who knows how to read or google.
I've attended seminars from post like these that were mutually beneficial. No credit cards, no $20k binders, no up selling courses, just networking building and closing deals and both parties learning and profiting.
I've also seen victims of the "Now I have a $20,000 binder in my drawer" seminars as well. Those things will always exist and people will have to do their own research and protect themselves accordingly. But I love free tips on growth and I love true stories of success.
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