Cringeworthy self promotion on BP

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Cringeworthy self promotion on BP

Jeff C.
Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes

Has anyone else had their fill of posts concocted ostensibly to be informative but that are obviously thinly veiled attempts to funnel the uninitiated to the posters classes, syndication capital raise attempts, sub-to schemes, turnkey "opportunities", etc? Many offenders can't contain the said self promotion to their own threads, but seem to find a way to segue any even peripherally related thread back to their own. Each and every time I read a post which weaves fantastical tales of unbelievable (and undoubtedly quite cherrypicked) returns and I think to myself "this smells a bit stinky, here we go again..", inevitably the poster just happens to be raising capital for more fantastic deals right now (or whatever the business model happens to be). Wow, just my luck! 

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John Chapman
Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 718 posts · 913 votes
6y

@Jeff C., Yep, there are definitely some cringeworthy threads going on.  I think BP does an overall good job of keeping the marketing in marketplace, but you can tell a lot of these posters are  pushing it right to the line.  There's one in particular right now who, if you accept his boasting, is approaching Buffett-like heights of investing yet still somehow manages to find time to write all of his self-promoting posts while adding almost zero value in terms of content.  It's like only he has the secret sauce and supernatural insight and the only logical conclusion is to see if you can offer him money and hopefully he will let you invest with him.  Pass.

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  • Patricia Steiner
    Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I agree with everything posted before me and I'd like to add another: the "contributor" who has contributed to every post - to some even two to three times within the same thread, most often with some kind of flip remark that adds nothing to advance the commentary or add value - but it does get him listed as a top poster.  Quantity not quality...or maybe it's stalking.  Hard to tell...

    5Reply
  • Pankaj Sharma
    Investor · Spring City, PA · Member since 2019 · 56 posts · 41 votes
    6y

    @Jeff Cagle This is a super important topic. I see so much of this type of thing. People showing deals they’re closing left and right. It seems all the scammers are now raising capital for multifamily deals and/or selling courses on how to do it. Not saying all courses are scams but most are esp the costly ones. Buyer be aware.

    3Reply
  • Richard Bonisa
    Investor · Indianapolis · Member since 2019 · 108 posts · 69 votes
    6y

    Many good points made here.  I totally agree.  

    0Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Basic logic here, if I may.

    If you are still here, then obviously you see more good than bad.

    Live is full of compromises. So compromise :)

    6Reply
  • Allan Smith
    Contractor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Yes couldn't agree more. Things have changed since the early BP days.

    by the way don't forget to visit my website and join our fund for nearly triple digit returns! Guaranteed of course.

    6Reply
  • Christopher B.
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2011 · 701 posts · 531 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Bill F.:

    @Jeff C.

    I have noticed this about BP for awhile and it has recently crept into the forums. I think the golden age where the forums was just a bunch of RE nerds who really liked talking to other RE nerds about investing and helping others is coming to a close. No one in particular's fault, simply a bunch of factors coming together. The two big ones I see:

    1. BP took Private Equity money and now they have have bosses and those bosses like to have as much stable recurring revenue as they can. That means BP needs to monetizes as many users as they can. They do that in the forums through the memberships and by giving access to lots and lots of people who are interested in RE to people who make their living off of people who are interested in RE: agents, wholesalers, turnkey, syndicators and the like, all who will pay lots of $$ to get their product in front of eyeballs. Of course this comes with a free rider problem where people will use the forums to start "discussions" about inflammatory/absurd/ feel good topics that they know will get lots of views which they hope convert to active leads for their business.

    2. The market is in such a place where if you have a pulse you can get great returns with a modicum of skill and/or if you bought in 2009-13 you can confuse luck with skill because you have made tons of cash. C'es la vie. This optimism drives lots of new people into the market, which reinforces the feedback loop I mentioned above.

    Anyway, I too was annoyed by this for awhile. I have come to accept it for what it is. BP still has lots of great folks to interact with, learn from, and help. At the end of the day it is a hell of a lot better than most social media platforms and we are lucky to have it. 

    The golden-age of BP forums has long since passed my friend. Once upon a time... 

    0Reply
  • Jeff C.
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

    Basic logic here, if I may.

    If you are still here, then obviously you see more good than bad.

    Live is full of ****** compromises. So compromise :)

    More basic logic: Those who have actually left over things like this aren't here to voice their opinions.

    6Reply
  • Sam Shueh
    Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    It is best to turn the person in. or Go to DRE licensing.

    0Reply
  • Aaron Taylor
    Olathe, KS · Member since 2018 · 148 posts · 207 votes
    6y

    I was just thinking this same thing today and then I ran across this thread.  The posting is starting to get a bit ridiculous at times, but where I really notice the difference is podcasts.  Most of the podcasts I've been listening to for the past couple years have started to go downhill, mainly through loads of circular self promotion.  Person A has a podcast and Person B comes on it, then A goes on B's, and then they both go on C's and he comes on their's, etc and they all say the same thing and the value just goes downhill quickly.  Even the biggerpockets podcasts (which I love most of the time) have fallen victim to this.

    Everyone is chasing capital and throwing out their best sales pitch constantly, like it's a frenzy out there now.  Probably a bad sign, whenever there is overwhelming exuberance things tend to fall apart.

    I do agree with the poster that the quality of posts in general seems to have fallen over the past year for some reason.  The constant self promotion stuff isn't making that any better.

    7Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    When I joined a year or so ago I was struck by how sharky BP is.... it seems that most folks here are either eating or being eaten....  i visualize it as sharks eating minnows.....  there are a few folks that appear to be neither, but the majority seem to want something.....

    3Reply
  • David Song
    Real Estate Broker · Redwood City, CA · Member since 2014 · 679 posts · 888 votes
    6y

    @Mary Mitchell

    Like your observation. I view this website as an entertainment site now. To relax and have a good laugh. Not much real estate value anymore, what a pity.

    3Reply
  • Cody L.
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    I’ve been on here for a while and quite honestly don’t see it. Can you call out a few of them by linking to the posts?

    to avoid any answer I give having any tint that it might be promotion I’ve removed my company name and last name years ago. 

    2Reply
  • Javier D.
    Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    6y

    @Jeff Cagle

    Can you link to a couple of those posts?

    I see a little self serving ego stroke stuff happening but with some real deal good advice with it. Im ok with that kind of thing.

    I did see a turnkey bait post yesterday that made me want to jump off a sidewalk. Noi 26 dollars in a non appreciating market lol. That kind of stuff that can only get the unsuspecting investor in big financial trouble bothers me.

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Trent Chance:

    @Jeff Cagle let me play devil's advocate.

    I get what everyone is saying but I've also learned a lot from posts that some are probably categorizing in this way.

    I don't want anyone to get scammed bit not everyone is scamming. Some are just doing common sense marketing that actually provides value to everyone and maybe 1% of the readers will actually end up investing with them.

    These posts helped go from 1 home to soon to be a over $1M in cash flowing assets in a year.

    Maybe I should write a book 😅

    I mean even Bigger Pockets materials are marketed in the same manner.

    I couldn't even finish the house hacking book as it was just.

    The same stuff we've read rehashed over and over for like 200 pages.

     I agree and even the term "scam" is subjective. Some people make bad investing decisions, then later claim they were "scammed." Back in 2004 my stock broker showed me mutual fund charts with double digit returns. Then in 2008 he lost 30% of my money. Was I scammed? He sure did mislead me, but I would hardly call it a scam. We all have trouble acknowledging our own mistakes and admitting when we fell for a sales pitch.

    2Reply
  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    It's the same problem anywhere that forums are fully public-facing and especially prevalent in real estate where everyone is trying to sell you something or get something for nothing. I find the self-promotion just as bad as the low bar set for what is acceptable to post. Just as bad as someone creating posts about himself and how he is being sued and how this and that is the posts that just say Need Advice - what should I do as a new investor? That's it.

    It's not BP's fault, there is just way too much coming in for the moderators to work with. And it's not BP's job to weed out stupid posts, but the self-serving ones should be flagged. I flag all the time, but never get an update if it went off the site or not.

    Real estate is a business built on training people how to self-flagellate all day long. It doesn't work. I don't know why the self-promoters don't get that. Just add some value and wait for it to come back to you.

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  • Trent Chance
    Member since 2019 · 94 posts · 75 votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock exactly

    1Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y

    Joan Baez said it best: Take what you need and leave the rest. Feather in your cap if you can name the song :)

    That's really all anyone can do. A site as popular as BP is going to attract self promoters. We kill the blatant and obvious stuff, but cannot possibly police everything; there are 1.5 million members or so and thousands of posts either created or added to each day. If you see something, flag it. Someone will review it, that I can assure you.

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  • John FortesPro Member
    Multi-Family Syndicator · Abington, MA · Member since 2017 · 603 posts · 347 votes
    6y

    I've met a ton of people that mean well on here and have had many meaningful conversations. 

    I've also been solicited directly from posts to my inbox. You can't stop it, just try to ignore it. 

    3Reply
  • Yonah WeissPro Member
    Cost Segregation Expert and Investor · Lakewood, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Pankaj Sharma:

    @Jeff Cagle This is a super important topic. I see so much of this type of thing. People showing deals they’re closing left and right. It seems all the scammers are now raising capital for multifamily deals and/or selling courses on how to do it. Not saying all courses are scams but most are esp the costly ones. Buyer be aware.

    Great point Pankaj! Many course-giving 'gurus' are mostly full of it, and have rarely done any deals on their own. It's much more lucrative for them to sell courses then to invest in real estate. It's a smart business decision, but lacks ethics.

    5Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:

    This goes on in pretty much every sub-forum on this site. From capital raising, to wholesalers, to property managers, to SEO people. A lot of these people use canned responses that they just cut and paste over and over again. It's meant to drive clicks to their profile and website. I understand why they do it, but it's annoying once you see what they're doing is not meant to add meaningful discussion.

    took me a while to hone in on the cut paste folks.. but the light finally went on .. But we have to keep in mind most of the folks on this site are doing some kind of real estate and most need capital and well were ya going to find it as easy as this site.

    the problem with the market place is that not everyone can see it.. if everyone could see it.. then folks that are heavy on self promotions could do their posting there..  ????  just an idea..  PS in all my post i have never cut and pasted I just learned how to do that a few years back LOL

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:

    I was just thinking this same thing today and then I ran across this thread.  The posting is starting to get a bit ridiculous at times, but where I really notice the difference is podcasts.  Most of the podcasts I've been listening to for the past couple years have started to go downhill, mainly through loads of circular self promotion.  Person A has a podcast and Person B comes on it, then A goes on B's, and then they both go on C's and he comes on their's, etc and they all say the same thing and the value just goes downhill quickly.  Even the biggerpockets podcasts (which I love most of the time) have fallen victim to this.

    Everyone is chasing capital and throwing out their best sales pitch constantly, like it's a frenzy out there now.  Probably a bad sign, whenever there is overwhelming exuberance things tend to fall apart.

    I do agree with the poster that the quality of posts in general seems to have fallen over the past year for some reason.  The constant self promotion stuff isn't making that any better.

    As one who has been on most folks pod casts that you would know about.. I hear ya loud and clear and me when i do mine.. they ask for my contact info.. and i tell them i dont want to give it I dont want 100 e mails  LOL  so listen to one of mine and there is never contact info..

    But now that people are understanding the motivation folks are smart enough they can make a decision but you can see the newbies and those just starting out really feed into some of the better subliminal marketers.

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  • Edit B.
    Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 85 votes
    6y

    @Jeff Cagle I couldn’t agree more.

    First of all it’s sort of heart breaking. I’m reading this last “hotel” guys post and comments yesterday thinking this is why I love BP. People just sharing their ideas no matter how big they are, and that’s awesome. I keep reading to find out this is one long pitch and self promotion. What an *******..

    That is not only cringe but extremely disingenuous and in my opinion should get the person banned. You are supposedly giving advice. But to give advice with a hidden agenda is not giving advice, it’s manipulating people that know less than you. It’s sort of like fooling old people. Sure we could allow anyone that doesn’t know enough to be fooled by these people, but that’s a pretty ****** community, don’t we all think?

    Aside from that if we allow people like that to act freely here this place will become a **** show and the information will not be worth much as one cannot trust it.

    4Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Edit B.:

    @Jeff Cagle I couldn’t agree more.

    First of all it’s sort of heart breaking. I’m reading this last “hotel” guys post and comments yesterday thinking this is why I love BP. People just sharing their ideas no matter how big they are, and that’s awesome. I keep reading to find out this is one long pitch and self promotion. What an *******..

    That is not only cringe but extremely disingenuous and in my opinion should get the person banned. You are supposedly giving advice. But to give advice with a hidden agenda is not giving advice, it’s manipulating people that know less than you. It’s sort of like fooling old people. Sure we could allow anyone that doesn’t know enough to be fooled by these people, but that’s a pretty ****** community, don’t we all think?

    Aside from that if we allow people like that to act freely here this place will become a **** show and the information will not be worth much as one cannot trust it.

    I saw the referenced thread.  My only complaint was that it was not in the marketplace where I felt it belonged.  He clearly was raising capital.  The intent of the thread was to raise capital.  The way he could increase the views to his podcast to raise capital was: We closed on N percent of all apartments in the City of Y in year X.  Or City Y dedicated a day to me.  A lot of self promotion.  I am not in a position to say the self promotion was BS but clearly some people believe it is.  I want to believe the claims of the various posters but of course would not invest with any without verifying.  I figure it is little impact to me if someone exaggerates their accomplishments.  I will also say it is easy to want to list your RE accomplishments.  

    There was a post today where I compared two markets.  Both markets I have invested in.  Someone implied that I did not know what I was referring to.  I basically did a short reply of my experience in the market in question.  It is hard not to get defensive in these situations but the mature thing is to not get defensive.

    I just felt the thread belong in the marketplace.  He was clearly marketing.

    3Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2018 · 175 posts · 103 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    Where it bugs me is the local forum. I live in a crappy little city that's dying by inches. I know it's a crappy little city. I've spent years studying its fundamental crappiness. I know how disgusting the food is, how ignorant the general population is, the crumbling infrastructure, the systemic racism, the persistent problems of the area. I've built my business model around how crappy this city is. It's paying off.

    Then there are these disingenuous sleazeballs in the local forum who sing the praises of this place, try to pass it off as a city striding forward confidently to meet an ever-brighter future. They're always real estate agents looking for OOS money.

     Best post I've ever read here. Someone who knows money can be made in crappy towns (also my business model).

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2018 · 175 posts · 103 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Edit B.:

    @Jeff Cagle I couldn’t agree more.

    First of all it’s sort of heart breaking. I’m reading this last “hotel” guys post and comments yesterday thinking this is why I love BP. People just sharing their ideas no matter how big they are, and that’s awesome. I keep reading to find out this is one long pitch and self promotion. What an *******..

    That is not only cringe but extremely disingenuous and in my opinion should get the person banned. You are supposedly giving advice. But to give advice with a hidden agenda is not giving advice, it’s manipulating people that know less than you. It’s sort of like fooling old people. Sure we could allow anyone that doesn’t know enough to be fooled by these people, but that’s a pretty ****** community, don’t we all think?

    Aside from that if we allow people like that to act freely here this place will become a **** show and the information will not be worth much as one cannot trust it.

     Hotel guy is annoying.....hijacking threads.

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