$10,000 SBA Loan / Grant

$10,000 SBA Loan / Grant

Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Anyone else applying for an SBA Economic Injury Disaster Loan? Based on what I've read in the Stimulus Bill we all might be eligible for a 10k grant advance.

"(e) Emergency grant

(1) In general: During the covered period, an entity included for eligibility in subsection (b), including small business concerns, private nonprofit organizations, and small agricultural cooperatives, that applies for a loan under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)) in response to COVID–19 may request that the Administrator provide an advance that is, subject to paragraph (3), in the amount requested by such applicant to such applicant within 3 days after the Administrator receives an application from such applicant.

(2)Verification: Before disbursing amounts under this subsection, the Administrator shall verify that the applicant is an eligible entity by accepting a self-certification from the applicant under penalty of perjury pursuant to section 1746 of title 28 United States Code.

(3) Amount: The amount of an advance provided under this subsection shall be not more than $10,000.

(4) Use of funds: An advance provided under this subsection may be used to address any allowable purpose for a loan made under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)), including—

(A) providing paid sick leave to employees unable to work due to the direct effect of the COVID–19;

(B) maintaining payroll to retain employees during business disruptions or substantial slowdowns;

(C) meeting increased costs to obtain materials unavailable from the applicant’s original source due to interrupted supply chains;

(D) making rent or mortgage payments; and

(E) repaying obligations that cannot be met due to revenue losses."

Those that are interested I applied at the sba.gov website 

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Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
6y

Alright, I have an update, well, sort of. So I called the 1800 number of the SBA and talked to a rep after waiting about 1 hour. She was relatively nice. Following is the conversation:

Me: So I submitted the application Tuesday and I requested the $10,000 advance grant. Today's Friday. Where's my money, dawg? (just kidding, I did not say that last sentence)

Rep: It will take about 3 weeks before you get an email about your eligibility. 

Me: Huh? But Congress says 3 days in the law?

Rep: Well, the 3 days begins when we accept your application and process your eligibility , not when you submit it. (Now, I disagree. I think she's wrong, or the SBA is wrong). 

Me: OK, but Congress also said, I can still get the advance as a grant, even if I am later denied the loan. 

Rep: That is correct. That sure is a possibility (now we were on the phone, but I pretty sure I detected a "wink wink" here)

Me: So then why does it take 3 weeks? 

Rep: Because it does. Just keep watching your email and phone. They may email or phone you. 

Me: But I still don't understand... 

Rep: IT TAKES 3 WEEKS. KEEP WATCHING EMAILS. 

Me: Alright....

I am posting the text of the bill directly from Congress, and bold the relevant parts:

(e) Emergency Grant.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—During the covered period, an entity included for eligibility in subsection (b), including small business concerns, private nonprofit organizations, and small agricultural cooperatives, that applies for a loan under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)) in response to COVID–19 may request that the Administrator provide an advance that is, subject to paragraph (3), in the amount requested by such applicant to such applicant within 3 days after the Administrator receives an application from such applicant.

(2) VERIFICATION.—Before disbursing amounts under this subsection, the Administrator shall verify that the applicant is an eligible entity by accepting a self-certification from the applicant under penalty of perjury pursuant to section 1746 of title 28 United States Code.

(3) AMOUNT.—The amount of an advance provided under this subsection shall be not more than $10,000.

(4) USE OF FUNDS.—An advance provided under this subsection may be used to address any allowable purpose for a loan made under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(2)), including—

(A) providing paid sick leave to employees unable to work due to the direct effect of the COVID–19;

(B) maintaining payroll to retain employees during business disruptions or substantial slowdowns;

(C) meeting increased costs to obtain materials unavailable from the applicant’s original source due to interrupted supply chains;

(D) making rent or mortgage payments; and

(E) repaying obligations that cannot be met due to revenue losses.

(5) REPAYMENT.—An applicant shall not be required to repay any amounts of an advance provided under this subsection, even if subsequently denied a loan under section 7(b)(2) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 636(b)(

So, I think the SBA is full of crap. They are putting up red tapes that are nowhere to be found in the laws while Congress has written the laws in so black and white that it doesn't even leave any room for interpretation. So right now the SBA is saying:

1) We haven't received your application. It is not "received" until we review it. 

-> No way. The text of the law says nothing about reviewing. "within 3 days after the Administrator receives an application from such applicant". We have a confirmation number. That mean SBA receives it. Period. 

2) What is this reviewing for eligibility crap? Congress also says in black and white: "the Administrator shall verify that the applicant is an eligible entity by accepting a self-certification from the applicant under penalty of perjury". 

-> We DID that self-certification in the application itself. That should be all that is required. 

--> Bottom line: I think they're playing games with us and the SBA is blatantly defying Congress. 

I think I am going to start writing to my Senators and Representatives. Let's make some noise

See this reply in the discussion

187 Replies

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  • Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 160 votes
    6y

    MY understanding was that you needed to have employees or 1099. I do not 1099 or have employees. 

  • Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Courtney Jones I also heard that but didn't see it in the eligibility verbiage. I figure it cant hurt to apply. With 2 of my 4 units vacant, I could use the money to help cover my mortgage. 

  • Haymarket, VA · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    I applied as well, not really sure of landlords qualify or not but figured it doesn't hurt to apply.

  • Chris SvendsenPro Member
    Front Royal, VA · Member since 2016 · 306 posts · 240 votes
    6y

    Going to be applying shortly. Not sure will qualify but figured worth a shot. Hardest part I am trying to figure out is make sure using right forms for a single member LLC and I am filling them out correctly. Cannot hurt to apply, even if get initial 10k given out can use to cover some mortgage payments on rentals.

  • Lake Oswego, OR · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Where are you guys applying? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Huron, OH · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    I applied for this as well. We own multiple STR and LTRs. The STRs have been severely impacted by Coronavirus and on taxes they are considered self employment income. I can't imagine they wouldn't help out the other owners in the entertainment and travel business who have been ravaged by this pandemic. Here's to hoping we're approved!

  • Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    So glad I'm not the only one taking a shot at the 10k payday. Im very interested to see if anyone actually manages to get the grant. I also convinced my aunt who runs a daycare and my friend who has a meal prep business to apply. 

    Rub your lucky rabbit foot 3 times and make a wish, "let uncle sam pick me for the 10k give away!"

    Good luck everyone!

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 64 posts · 40 votes
    6y

    I am trying to work through the details on this as well.  

    Can anyone verify if a single member llc reporting on schedule E is eligible? I only see sole proprietor on the application.  

    Thanks!

  • Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2017 · 230 posts · 200 votes
    6y

    I have not seen anything that states NO to single member LLC (I have many). Link is the updated online form where you can request $10k advance - previous paper form don't have check box for $10k advance.

    https://www.sba.gov/page/disaster-loan-applications

    Below is what I received in email from US Small business administration.  Based on below, every small business should apply. 

    'On March 27, 2020, President Trump signed into law the CARES Act, which
    provided additional assistance for small business owners and
    non-profits, including the opportunity to get up to a $10,000 Advance on an Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL). This Advance may be available even if your EIDL application was declined or is still pending, and will be forgiven.'

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y

    Yes, please if someone already applied and have received the grant, please post here to let us know and I will do the same. I applied a few minutes ago. 

  • Flipper / Landlord · Tyler, TX · Member since 2016 · 255 posts · 126 votes
    6y

    where do we apply?

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 24 votes
    6y
  • Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    6y
  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    https://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/9/7/97ac840c-28b7-4e49-b872-d30a995d8dae/F2CF1DD78E6D6C8C8C3BF58C6D1DDB2B.small-business-owner-s-guide-to-the-cares-act-final-.pdf



    Economic Injury Disaster Loans & Emergency Economic Injury Grants
    These grants provide an emergency advance of up to $10,000 to small businesses and private
    non-profits harmed by COVID-19 within three days of applying for an SBA Economic Injury
    Disaster Loan (EIDL). To access the advance, you first apply for an EIDL and then request the
    advance. The advance does not need to be repaid under any circumstance, and may be used
    to keep employees on payroll, to pay for sick leave, meet increased production costs due to
    supply chain disruptions, or pay business obligations, including debts, rent and mortgage
    payments.

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    QUESTION: Are businesses and private non-profits in my state eligible for an EIDL related to COVID19?
    Answer: Yes, those suffering substantial economic injury in all 50 states, DC, and the territories may
    apply for an EIDL.

    QUESTION: What is an EIDL and what is it used for?
    Answer: EIDLs are lower interest loans of up to $2 million, with principal and interest deferment at
    the Administrator’s discretion, that are available to pay for expenses that could have been
    met had the disaster not occurred, including payroll and other operating expenses.

    QUESTION: Who is eligible for an EIDL?
    Answer: Those eligible are the following with 500 or fewer employees:
    • Sole proprietorships, with or without employees
    • Independent contractors
    • Cooperatives and employee owned businesses
    • Tribal small businesses
    Small business concerns and small agricultural cooperatives that meet the applicable size
    standard for SBA are also eligible, as well as most private non-profits of any size. See
    below for more info on size standards.

    QUESTION: My private non-profit is not a 501(c)(3). Is it still eligible for an EIDL and a grant?
    Answer: Yes, if you are a private non-profit with an effective ruling letter from the IRS, granting tax
    exemption under sections 501(c), (d), or (e) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, or if you
    can provide satisfactory evidence from the State that the non-revenue producing
    organization or entity is a non-profit one organized or doing business under State law.
    However, a recipient that is principally engaged in teaching, instructing, counseling, or
    indoctrinating religion or religious beliefs, whether in a religious or secular setting, or
    primarily engaged in political or lobbying activities is not eligible to receive an EIDL. If you
    are uncertain whether you qualify, please consult with legal counsel to determine whether
    your organization meets program criteria.

    QUESTION: Who is eligible for an Emergency Economic Injury Grant?
    Answer Those eligible for an EIDL and who have been in operation since January 31, 2020, when
    the public health crisis was announced.
    FAQ’s continue on the next page!
    8

    QUESTION: How long are Emergency Economic Injury Grants available?
    Answer: January 31, 2020 – December 31, 2020. The grants are backdated to January 31, 2020 to
    allow those who have already applied for EIDLs to be eligible to also receive a grant.

    QUESTION: If I get an EIDL and/or an Emergency Economic Injury Grant, can I get a PPP loan?
    Answer: Whether you’ve already received an EIDL unrelated to COVID-19 or you receive a COVID19 related EIDL and/or Emergency Grant between January 31, 2020 and June 30, 2020, you
    may also apply for a PPP loan. If you ultimately receive a PPP loan or refinance an EIDL into
    a PPP loan, any advance amount received under the Emergency Economic Injury Grant
    Program would be subtracted from the amount forgiven in the PPP. However, you cannot
    use your EIDL for the same purpose as your PPP loan. For example, if you use your EIDL to
    cover payroll for certain workers in April, you cannot use PPP for payroll for those same
    workers in April, although you could use it for payroll in March or for different workers in
    April.

    QUESTION: How do I know if my business is a small business?
    Answer: Please visit https://www.sba.gov/size-stand... to find out if your business meets SBA’s
    small business size standards. You will need the 6-digit North American Industry
    Classification Code for your business and your business’s 3-year average annual revenue.

    QUESTION: How do I apply for an economic injury disaster loan?
    Answer: To apply for an EIDL online, please visit https://disasterloan.sba.gov/ela/. Your SBA District
    Office is an important resource when applying for SBA assistance.

    QUESTION: I am unfamiliar with the EIDL process, can anyone help me apply?
    Answer: Yes, SBA resource partners are available to help guide you through the EIDL application
    process. You can find the nearest Small Business Development Center (SBDC), Women’s
    Business Center, or SCORE mentorship chapter at https://www.sba.gov/localassistance/find/.

  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    If you do have employees there is another loan through the CARES act called the Paycheck Protection Program. This loan have the possibility to be forgiven as well. It would be equal to about 2.5x monthly payroll costs. 



    Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) Loans
    The program would provide cash-flow assistance through 100 percent federally guaranteed
    loans to employers who maintain their payroll during this emergency. If employers maintain
    their payroll, the loans would be forgiven, which would help workers remain employed, as well
    as help affected small businesses and our economy snap-back quicker after the crisis. PPP has a
    host of attractive features, such as forgiveness of up to 8 weeks of payroll based on employee
    retention and salary levels, no SBA fees, and at least six months of deferral with maximum
    deferrals of up to a year. Small businesses and other eligible entities will be able to apply if they
    were harmed by COVID-19 between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020. This program would
    be retroactive to February 15, 2020, in order to help bring workers who may have already been
    laid off back onto payrolls. Loans are available through June 30, 2020.

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    QUESTION: What types of businesses and entities are eligible for a PPP loan?
    Answer: • Businesses and entities must have been in operation on February 15, 2020.
    • Small business concerns, as well as any business concern, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit
    organization, a 501(c)(19) veterans organization, or Tribal business concern described in
    section 31(b)(2)(C) that has fewer than 500 employees, or the applicable size standard in
    number of employees for the North American Industry Classification System (NAICS)
    industry as provided by SBA, if higher.
    • Individuals who operate a sole proprietorship or as an independent contractor and
    eligible self-employed individuals.
    • Any business concern that employs not more than 500 employees per physical location
    of the business concern and that is assigned a NAICS code beginning with 72, for which
    the affiliation rules are waived.
    • Affiliation rules are also waived for any business concern operating as a franchise that is
    assigned a franchise identifier code by the Administration, and company that receives
    funding through a Small Business Investment Company.

    QUESTION: What are affiliation rules?
    Answer: Affiliation rules become important when SBA is deciding whether a business’s affiliations
    preclude them from being considered “small.” Generally, affiliation exists when one
    business controls or has the power to control another or when a third party (or parties)
    controls or has the power to control both businesses. Please see this resource for more on
    these rules and how they can impact your business’s eligibility.

    QUESTION: What types of non-profits are eligible?
    Answer: In general, 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(19) non-profits with 500 employees or fewer as most nonprofit SBA size standards are based on revenue, not employee number. You can check here.

    QUESTION: How is the loan size determined?
    Answer: Depending on your business’s situation, the loan size will be calculated in different ways
    (see below). The maximum loan size is always $10 million.
    • If you were in business February 15, 2019 – June 30, 2019: Your max loan is equal
    to 250 percent of your average monthly payroll costs during that time period. If your
    business employs seasonal workers, you can opt to choose March 1, 2019 as your
    time period start date.
    • If you were not in business between February 15, 2019 – June 30, 2019: Your max
    loan is equal to 250 percent of your average monthly payroll costs between January
    1, 2020 and February 29, 2020.
    • If you took out an Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) between February 15, 2020
    and June 30, 2020 and you want to refinance that loan into a PPP loan, you would
    add the outstanding loan amount to the payroll sum.

    QUESTION: What costs are eligible for payroll?
    Answer: • Compensation (salary, wage, commission, or similar compensation, payment of cash
    tip or equivalent)
    • Payment for vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave
    • Allowance for dismissal or separation
    • Payment required for the provisions of group health care benefits, including
    insurance premiums
    • Payment of any retirement benefit
    • Payment of State or local tax assessed on the compensation of employees

    QUESTION: What costs are not eligible for payroll?
    Answer: • Employee/owner compensation over $100,000
    • Taxes imposed or withheld under chapters 21, 22, and 24 of the IRS code
    • Compensation of employees whose principal place of residence is outside of the U.S.
    • Qualified sick and family leave for which a credit is allowed under sections 7001 and
    7003 of the Families First Coronavirus Response Act

    QUESTION: What are allowable uses of loan proceeds?
    Answer: • Payroll costs (as noted above)
    • Costs related to the continuation of group health care benefits during periods of
    paid sick, medical, or family leave, and insurance premiums
    • Employee salaries, commissions, or similar compensations (see exclusions above)
    • Payments of interest on any mortgage obligation (which shall not include any
    prepayment of or payment of principal on a mortgage obligation)
    • Rent (including rent under a lease agreement)
    • Utilities
    • Interest on any other debt obligations that were incurred before the covered period

    QUESTION: What are the loan term, interest rate, and fees?
    Answer: For any amounts not forgiven, the maximum term is 10 years, the maximum interest rate is
    4 percent, zero loan fees, zero prepayment fee (SBA will establish application fees caps for
    lenders that charge).

    QUESTION: How is the forgiveness amount calculated?
    Answer: Forgiveness on a covered loan is equal to the sum of the following payroll costs incurred
    during the covered 8 week period compared to the previous year or time period,
    proportionate to maintaining employees and wages (excluding compensation over
    $100,000):
    • Payroll costs plus any payment of interest on any covered mortgage obligation (not
    including any prepayment or payment of principal on a covered mortgage
    obligation) plus any payment on any covered rent obligation plus and any covered
    utility payment.

    QUESTION: How do I get forgiveness on my PPP loan?
    Answer: You must apply through your lender for forgiveness on your loan. In this application, you
    must include:
    • Documentation verifying the number of employees on payroll and pay rates,
    including IRS payroll tax filings and State income, payroll and unemployment
    insurance filings.
    • Documentation verifying payments on covered mortgage obligations, lease
    obligations, and utilities.
    • Certification from a representative of your business or organization that is
    authorized to certify that the documentation provided is true and that the amount
    that is being forgiven was used in accordance with the program’s guidelines for use.

    QUESTION: What happens after the forgiveness period?
    Answer: Any loan amounts not forgiven are carried forward as an ongoing loan with max terms of 10
    years, at a maximum interest rate of 4%. Principal and interest will continue to be deferred,
    for a total of 6 months to a year after disbursement of the loan. The clock does not start
    again.

    QUESTION: Can I get more than one PPP loan?
    Answer: No, an entity is limited to one PPP loan. Each loan will be registered under a Taxpayer
    Identification Number at SBA to prevent multiple loans to the same entity.

    QUESTION: Where should I go to get a PPP loan from?
    Answer: All current SBA 7(a) lenders (see more about 7(a) here) are eligible lenders for PPP. The
    Department of Treasury will also be in charge of authorizing new lenders, including nonbank lenders, to help meet the needs of small business owners.


    QUESTION: How does the PPP loan coordinate with SBA’s existing loans?
    Answer: Borrowers may apply for PPP loans and other SBA financial assistance, including Economic
    Injury Disaster Loans (EIDLs), 7(a) loans, 504 loans, and microloans, and also receive
    investment capital from Small Business Investment Corporations (SBICs). However, you
    cannot use your PPP loan for the same purpose as your other SBA loan(s). For example, if
    you use your PPP to cover payroll for the 8-week covered period, you cannot use a different
    SBA loan product for payroll for those same costs in that period, although you could use it
    for payroll not during that period or for different workers.

    QUESTION: How does the PPP loan work with the temporary Emergency Economic Injury Grants and
    the Small Business Debt Relief program?
    Answer: Emergency Economic Injury Grant and Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) recipients
    and those who receive loan payment relief through the Small Business Debt Relief
    Program may apply for and take out a PPP loan as long as there is no duplication in the
    uses of funds. Refer to those sections for more information.

  • Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    Please post the link I have searched the SBA website and I do not see anything about a $10/k grant advance  I have completed all the paperwork for the Disaster relief funds only to be told that my bank gives me the form and they give me the funding 

  • Accountant · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 19 votes
    6y
  • Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    Thank you Zach
    I never saw the advance part when I was completing the regular Bridge and standard loan
    I really appreciate it and Greg too  =) 


    Originally posted by @Zach Fetcko:



    @Amy Oconnor

    You can apply at https://disasterloan.sba.gov/e... 

    This document has the information on page 7 as well. 



    https://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/9/7/97ac840c-28b7-4e49-b872-d30a995d8dae/F2CF1DD78E6D6C8C8C3BF58C6D1DDB2B.small-business-owner-s-guide-to-the-cares-act-final-.pdf

  • Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I applied today. My tenants have paid their April rent today, but me as a self employed contractor I’m out of work as of last week.

    Hoping this comes thru for me!

  • Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 91 votes
    6y

    This the correct way to do this.  Not the SBA.  Warning Investors the SBA is not the solution this is .....

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

  • Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Gregory Schwartz

    I only have one tenant unable to pay so far. I anticipate it snowballing. SBA asks how much $ you’re out due to the virus. Would I put $1500 for the one month I’m down so far or how do they expect us to guess? We’re just beginning this...

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Are you sure this is a grant as in does NOT need to be paid back? It sounds like it will only be "forgiven" if you have employees on payroll?

  • Member since 2020 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    Well I made 14k last week in the stock market, but my c-Corp is hurting right now because my closings were delayed for two months. I have applied for the loan, we will see what happens I suppose 🤷‍♂️

  • Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Sam Cherry this may be true. In my case I already filed for the EIDL loan with the 10k advance. 
    @Brandon Rouer the paper form that I originally filled out recommended a question make if you didn’t know how much you would be impacted. 
    @Henry Lazerow I don’t know. It seems like no one knows for sure. It seems more likely that the 10k is forgivable. I’ll let you know when I know for sure. 

  • Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Gregory Schwartz

    Can you say that again?

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