Anyone else feel like the forums are losing value?
Peter TverdovBusiness Member
Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votesAnyone else feel like the forums are losing value?
Most Popular Reply
Dallas, TX · Member since 2019 · 32 posts · 202 votes
6ySo this is going to sound odd. You've become one of the 'village elders' here on BP based on the fact that you've seen and heard most of what's been posted; and you've posted over 1200 times yourself, so you've obviously been party to some great conversations.
Based on my experience on other forums (for wildly differing subjects than this) my transition into the known voice position put me in the same situation, I felt like I wasn't getting anything out of the forum anymore... but the reality was that I was the one now putting back into the forum what I had taken out earlier. It was my obligation to go back through and help all the people who were 'new' figure it all out; and faster than I did because now I had the forum information and ability to easily pinpoint valuable discussions for others.
You may not be getting much out of BP, but I can assure you that others are probably getting much out of you. So please don't leave or get discouraged... it's all part of the cycle!
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144 Replies
- 6yShiloh LundahlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Erik B. I understand your view point of the pro membership not being much better than the regular, free membership. So I understand you discontinuing it. The reason I keep my pro membership is because I think it shows gratitude for the site and I have financially benefited from BiggerPockets far beyond anything I have paid them. Additionally, it allows me to create posts in the networking events forums which is where I announce my monthly meetups.
- 6yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
I look at it this way. Over the years (don't ask) I have found new information from some of the most unexpected sources...and people. Sometimes directly, and sometimes "taking the scenic route". As you become more advance in a group like this, you're going to find a lot of truth in what you say...however, I'd like to add onto your statement with an addendum with two reasons that makes the time spent here even more valuable to the experienced REI than when they were newbies:
1 - Relationship, including partners
2 - Although the "new" info might be less frequent, I find it to be more valuable
...and what @Ian Jaeger said about "giving back". I actually find that fun...and it contributes to the first two reasons I just gave.
BP isnt so much for me at this point in my journey about finding new information, it is about providing information so I can build a larger network of people I know. Ive probably done somewhere in the range of 50-75 deals with people Ive met in these forums.
I'm kind of in that same situation, although I still will pick up a few things here and there.
- Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 304 posts · 462 votes6y
I look at the forums purely from a market research perspective. The subjects discussed and the questions asked are a good indicator of what market sentiment among the investor community is, especially in a changing environment. I have no problem with the newbies. I just wish I had a resource like this when I was starting. (internet didn't exist then). We all have to start somewhere and I am happy to give the benefit of my experience.
- Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes6y
@Peter Tverdov I can only express my "issue" . I am an expert having done 100s and 100s and 100s of deals, for about 30 mill. I am contact weekly " Bob you seem to know the Cleveland market I would like to get in " Well when I provide exactly ( in most cases more ROI then they expected ) they just disappear. All tire kickers. When I ask what happened, well we are researching, and analyzing I plan to go visit over the next 6 months . I simple move on. You can simply not determine where or what price to pay using google. I can you cant ( meaning newbies ) .I feel many just go on these post to appease their own ego. Look at me I am a real estate investor .No you are not, you are just looking . This is not rocket science, so many make it more complicated then it really is . If you are working with someone that has does deals weekly , has PM in place, paid a fair price, the return in what you expect, what they heck is the problem, just do it.
All the best to everyone
- 6yJon KellyPro MemberInvestor · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2016 · 929 posts · 951 votes
@Peter Tverdov What's great about the forums is that you can search for ANY particular topic you're interested in. OR, you can start your own discussion if there's a topic you want to learn more about.
- Atlanta, GA · Member since 2020 · 58 posts · 15 votes6y
@Peter T. Stay bro we newbies need experienced Vets like yourself on this journey we all on.
- Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
I contemplated shutting this down - this is the generic version of "I've had it here, I'm leaving" post which isn't allowed per the rules, but it might be useful to head this off once.
I'm sorry you don't find value here. If not, why does it matter if anyone else feels that way? Why do you need confirmation that BP isn't what it used to be? And if you find the forums droll, there are other outlets on the internet. You should take advantage of them. You don't have to pay to be here.
The bottom line is that the population has voted, with their fingers, and BP far and away is the best and most populated real estate forums on the internet. Yes, sometimes that means "old-timers" have to wade through a lot of new questions. I still find plenty of value here, from newbies and old-timers, but maybe I'm not a glass half-empty guy. I see no point in ruminating on the changing composition of forum members, and especially no point looking for public confirmation of my position.
In my own life, I have found that when things seems unsatisfactory to me, the problem is usually me rather than some external force.
See, this is the problem. You should be thrilled with my post. It's contrarian and gives you guys real feedback and apparently plenty of people agree with me. I call balls and strikes. I still enjoy this forum but let's not pretend it hasn't morphed into a totally different animal the last few years.
- Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Bob Prisco:
@Peter Tverdov I can only express my "issue" . I am an expert having done 100s and 100s and 100s of deals, for about 30 mill. I am contact weekly " Bob you seem to know the Cleveland market I would like to get in " Well when I provide exactly ( in most cases more ROI then they expected ) they just disappear. All tire kickers. When I ask what happened, well we are researching, and analyzing I plan to go visit over the next 6 months . I simple move on. You can simply not determine where or what price to pay using google. I can you cant ( meaning newbies ) .I feel many just go on these post to appease their own ego. Look at me I am a real estate investor .No you are not, you are just looking . This is not rocket science, so many make it more complicated then it really is . If you are working with someone that has does deals weekly , has PM in place, paid a fair price, the return in what you expect, what they heck is the problem, just do it.
All the best to everyone
Haha I like this guy!
- Rental Property Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2017 · 517 posts · 772 votes6y
I joined a couple years ago, but only got active about 12 months ago...
Based on experience from another forum I don't frequent much anymore, there's a life cycle to every forum member (who sticks around longer than 1 day)
1.) You join to learn2.) You stay to keep growing and learning
3.) At some point, you'll have built experience enough that you are learning less and less
4.) You stick around for the networking opportunities
5.) If no networking opps, you exit
It's like a party at Six Flags.
At first it's fun, new...you ride all the rides. Soon, you've done it all and don't need to ride them anymore. You stick around to hang out with people.
If no one is worth talking to...you leave the park.
I'd say, if you don't feel you're meeting other experienced investors on here anymore, then your best bet is to create an offline experienced group.
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My hypothesis is as deals have become harder and harder to find, more gurus have emerged to 'teach' how to invest.
That brings in a new wave of newbies to the industry, hence everyone's feeling that the 'past 2 years have changed on here.'
-----
Last...
And maybe this is blasphemy...
But at some point 95% of real estate questions have likely been answered on here. Real estate has been pretty similar for awhile.
Only differences is changes in economic policies + technology.
Unlike a stock market forum for example which is changing everyday.
Every question about plumbing, bad tenants, finding deals...etc. has likely been covered. So if you've been around enough, it'll look like deja vu.
----
(There have been more and more "when will real estate crash" posts that seem redundant, I'll give you that.)
- Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Michael J. Ray:
@Peter T. Stay bro we newbies need experienced Vets like yourself on this journey we all on.
I'm not going anywhere
- Rental Property Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2020 · 20 posts · 35 votes6y
@Peter T.
I've been on here less than a week & use the search function to find answers. To echo some others, as someone who works in RE for a living (in addition to REI), what I've found most useful is speaking with people directly. Much of the forum information can be found elsewhere (several different podcasts, articles, YouTube), but the direct contact with others in REI is what I love about BP. In less that a week, I've been on Zoom calls, connected with potential realtors, talked in depth about comprehensive planning, zoning ordinances and the future of office & retail. There's so much wealth in the people, it's hard to capture in 1 response to a question. But the contents of those responses often make it clear (for me) who'd be great to talk to.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
I contemplated shutting this down - this is the generic version of "I've had it here, I'm leaving" post which isn't allowed per the rules, but it might be useful to head this off once.
I'm sorry you don't find value here. If not, why does it matter if anyone else feels that way? Why do you need confirmation that BP isn't what it used to be? And if you find the forums droll, there are other outlets on the internet. You should take advantage of them. You don't have to pay to be here.
The bottom line is that the population has voted, with their fingers, and BP far and away is the best and most populated real estate forums on the internet. Yes, sometimes that means "old-timers" have to wade through a lot of new questions. I still find plenty of value here, from newbies and old-timers, but maybe I'm not a glass half-empty guy. I see no point in ruminating on the changing composition of forum members, and especially no point looking for public confirmation of my position.
In my own life, I have found that when things seems unsatisfactory to me, the problem is usually me rather than some external force.
See, this is the problem. You should be thrilled with my post. It's contrarian and gives you guys real feedback and apparently plenty of people agree with me. I call balls and strikes. I still enjoy this forum but let's not pretend it hasn't morphed into a totally different animal the last few years.
No problem whatsoever. Everything is perspective. What you see as "calling balls and strikes" is just your own personal experience with the forums. Just because some people agree with you doesn't mean lots of other people don't agree with you. There's been at least 3 people just in this thread that have been here far longer than you that don't agree with you - in their eyes, *you* are the newbie. Maybe you're just a person that gets bored easy. I know you're a contrarian because most of your posts are contrarian. I also get your Jersey angle/perspective because I grew up there. Everyone from Jersey/NYC thinks they know everything and that their perspective is the "right" one (even me). That's just the nature of the area, I get it.
Yes, the nature of threads and questions in the forum has changed in the last couple of years as more people have become "investors" and the number of people participating in the forums has expanded significantly. So what? 5 years from now it will look different than it does now. There's plenty of filters here that can narrow topics and people down to what you want to see rather than just window-shopping whatever shows up on the page. You take what you need and you leave the rest.
PS: I would make the exact same post as this whether I was a moderator or not. Life is what you make of it, not what it makes of you, and I see nothing constructive to be gained by complaining about what the forum has become rather than seeking whatever value you need.
Skyline Properties - Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
If it devolves into MAG vs anti-MAGA discussions or what's a good price on a house in Richmond (nothing against Richmond), then I can understand the boredom.
However, each has a subject line. - Easy to decide whether to read it or not.
A lot of the posts are honest questions and stuff I hear as a broker. If we can answer questions or at least reply to allow some reflection/feedback, I think that's a good thing.
- 6yShiloh LundahlPro MemberRental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@David Song JD Martin is a BiggerPockets moderator. Which means he, along with other moderators, read through a lot of the forums and delete content or shut down threads that are violations of the BiggerPockets forum content policies. It is because of moderators like him that the forums have such great content. If it weren’t for the moderators, the forums would be overrun by solicitations, abusive remarks, and it would dilute the value of the content and drive the good contributors out and attract unwelcome posters.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
Regarding doing searches for info before posting. I dont know if it is a function of using my phone and ipad, but i have never been successful searching and the forum structure itself is really unwieldy - so my guess is people try to search but give up?
The virus should have no affect on knowledge and deals. Deals are happening as money always needs to be invested.
- 6yJonathan GreeneBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Part of the reason the forums may seem that way is because the technology on the back-end of the site is lagging WAY behind the value of Bigger Pockets as a whole. The functionality and search are very bad compared to the value. It is very hard to wade through the forums, and I agree a lot of the posts are garbage, but it's not because of BP's expansion, it's just because in general, people are lazy, especially on the Internet. They don't search first. They ask questions that they know are answered. The only want to hear the answer they want to hear. They get their feelings hurt if you don't pat their back. It's just people. And I would remind everyone that since the pandemic hit, it was inevitable that the posts would get even worse just because more people are home more of the time with more time to kill which means more questions on Should I start an LLC and How Do I get to 100 doors with no money in 6 months. You can get as much value out of BP as you put in, even if you have to wade through the everglades from time to time to find a crocodile.
- Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 24 votes6y
@Ian Jaeger that’s a really good way of looking at it :)
- Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 10 votes6y
@Joe Villeneuve
Lol! We are just waiting for our closing on our personal home. The seller originally owned a construction company and got into furniture making in retirement. A 4 car garage FULL of great furniture. He is leaving a riding lawn mower and nice pool table. He also he will not have the room for all the furniture. As part of the negotiations he is throwing in furniture we choose. Lucky us.
- Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
We all have our own reason for getting here. Your purpose or reason will need some meat to stick around and remain engaged.
All shiny new things become duller and less exciting over time. If your why is blurry, you will have a hard time hanging on.
Personally, I've always had an underlying reason of giving back in some way. Sprinkle in some high level thought-provoking and some funny posts and I'm a happy camper.
I've made some good friends and like to see what they're up to on my dashboard. Harder to see what they're posting now between all the blog and youtube and podcast insertions. Without my people, I have less urge to contribute.
There's a lot of good people I miss seeing on here and wonder what happened to them. Masters of their niches with thousands of post. Poof. Would like to know what happened to some of them.
With a strong why, one will stick around, like in anything. Just when I think I'm getting less value, I'll connect with a hopeful, motivated young investor from a place I've never been that reminds me why I'm still around.
- Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 18 posts · 3 votes6y
I logged in just now after not having been on in a couple of years (at least) and this is the first thread I see, the irony :-) . Before landing here though I looked around at the executive team as well as the staff and a lot has changed!...not to mentioned the size of the company.
I've been telling myself I want to spend more time on the website for a while now but kept putting it off. I'm in a holding pattern right now so maybe this is a good time. I personally get more value from the audio podcasts (although I've been on hiatus since the pandemic started). I think they have a a fair amount of diversity with the stories and the strategy: there was one a few months back about someone that started investing in hotels for instance. I also find value in some of the same types of investment podcast but with different approaches. There definitely are the "hey, I pyramided my way to 50 doors!" stories there but I tend to avoid those for the most part.
Running communities is hard in their defense but I agree it needs some work and the larger it gets the harder it is. I think the User Experience needs more work especially the way a user finds information. They should look to Quora for ideas, there are some great things that can be implemented here. For instance when you post a question there they present you with other forum topics similar to the topic you are about to post, this happens in real-time as you're typing the question. This can cut down on duplicate posts like someone else mentioned.
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Jonathan Greene:
Part of the reason the forums may seem that way is because the technology on the back-end of the site is lagging WAY behind the value of Bigger Pockets as a whole. The functionality and search are very bad compared to the value. It is very hard to wade through the forums, and I agree a lot of the posts are garbage, but it's not because of BP's expansion, it's just because in general, people are lazy, especially on the Internet. They don't search first. They ask questions that they know are answered. The only want to hear the answer they want to hear. They get their feelings hurt if you don't pat their back. It's just people. And I would remind everyone that since the pandemic hit, it was inevitable that the posts would get even worse just because more people are home more of the time with more time to kill which means more questions on Should I start an LLC and How Do I get to 100 doors with no money in 6 months. You can get as much value out of BP as you put in, even if you have to wade through the everglades from time to time to find a crocodile.
Ya I agree with this I cant figure out how to do half the stuff on this site search find other members etc.. so i just dont do it too frustrating and of course thats my lack of expertise in the software website computer realm.. if its not in the forums for me it does not exist.
- Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes6y
@Peter T. Well it’s not perfect, and I thought about leaving because of how crazy things are right now, it’s hard for people not to get really triggered by political or civil questions. I ran into a snag on owner financing and fsbo stuff the other day and was met with some quick, great answers, and it’s stuff like that, that makes it worth sticking it out with this forum. There’s some really smart experienced people on here and the chance to run into them and get some answers is PRICELESS, so thank you BP and i love you all! I’d love to help anyone I can as long as I’m on here, and I’ve seen the same from others.
- Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 177 votes6y
Originally posted by @Peter Tverdov:
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
I contemplated shutting this down - this is the generic version of "I've had it here, I'm leaving" post which isn't allowed per the rules, but it might be useful to head this off once.
I'm sorry you don't find value here. If not, why does it matter if anyone else feels that way? Why do you need confirmation that BP isn't what it used to be? And if you find the forums droll, there are other outlets on the internet. You should take advantage of them. You don't have to pay to be here.
The bottom line is that the population has voted, with their fingers, and BP far and away is the best and most populated real estate forums on the internet. Yes, sometimes that means "old-timers" have to wade through a lot of new questions. I still find plenty of value here, from newbies and old-timers, but maybe I'm not a glass half-empty guy. I see no point in ruminating on the changing composition of forum members, and especially no point looking for public confirmation of my position.
In my own life, I have found that when things seems unsatisfactory to me, the problem is usually me rather than some external force.
See, this is the problem. You should be thrilled with my post. It's contrarian and gives you guys real feedback and apparently plenty of people agree with me. I call balls and strikes. I still enjoy this forum but let's not pretend it hasn't morphed into a totally different animal the last few years.
At the end of the day BP is a business. Like most platform or social media companies the users are the product, not the customer. The average paying member is working some sort of networking or marketing angle to get more clients, sales, deals etc. Look at all of the premium member realtors that pop up when you ask about your nearest big city. I'm sure that the gals and guys at BP are nice people, but they're not running a charity. They're here to make money. That means selling more product, which means new users without experience. It is what it is.......
- Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes6y
@Account Closed what exactly were you hoping to gain ? Do you have cash to invest? If not why are you on here ( JUST ASKING not being combative )? . Did you think watching some videos was going to make you rich ? Did you actually connect with anyone doing deals, learn from that person, and actually buy a property or just research more and go back on videos ? I am not picking on you , this response is for everyone that is disappointed . So ask yourself, do you really want to own rentals, or are you just trying to learn and research ? Again its not rocket science folks .
I wish everyone health and happiness
- Member since 2019 · 63 posts · 60 votes6y
I was always told, don’t be a part of the problem, be a part of the solution. If you feel it is losing value, add value.
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