LOAN STACKING Payoff Mortgage in 1/6th the time and save 100k+

LOAN STACKING Payoff Mortgage in 1/6th the time and save 100k+

Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes

I'm not sure if this is a legit term but I've thought about this before and then I ran the numbers and was pretty excited to see what I came up with. Perhaps many of you already know about this and I'm just behind the 8 ball here but here it is.

 Remember how it's normally not a good idea to start paying off credit cards with other credit cards. Instead we have a transfer balance for that now.In theory using personal loans to pay off mortgages can work with the right numbers and if you qualify for lower percentages but I'll give a basic example.

    If one uses a 100k loan at 4.5% interest rate and a standard 30 years the monthly payment would be 506 and an interest $375 a month at the starting date. Now taking out say a 20k personal loan well the interest rates will be higher than a home loan yes. However, you can take this loan and put it down onto the house immediately within the first month. I If you pay just the standard monthly payment the interest it would cost you is 40k extra to pay off that first 20k on the house loan. If she takes out a 20 k personal loan and makes monthly payments on that loan at 12% for say one year she would only pay an interest of 1.2k. Your monthly interest monthly payments for the home loan instantly drop from $375 a month to $300 a month. 

     You would have to ensure that you can consistently pay off the home loan and the personal loan at the same time as the initial 20k loan at 12% was around 1700 a month and with the house loan that would be a little over 2k a month. Manufactured homes have very low property taxes and insurance costs plus with the potential extra $2100 of extra income from renting out the place that alone could potentially cover both loans. If you continue paying with 4 20k installments of personal loans (personal loan interest rates will lower as you continues to prove that you can pay them off on time) you could potentially only pay an extra 15k in interest and have the home paid off in 5 years instead of paying off the home in 30 years and paying 82.5k in interest. That will save her a total of 66.5k. Now this doesn't include the mortgage insurance but that's taken off immediately after 20% of the loan is paid offf which is a law. 

    That would save around $50-$100 a month. Here are the links to the calculators I utilized to simulate these hypothetical scenarios. After the fourth installment You could just pay as much as possible each month with the 20k and only 4.5% interest. If anything this could be paid off in less than 4.5 years for sure with just an average salary job and rental property income.

     Obviously the higher the home cost the more you could potentially save with this method

Calculators used:

Personal Loan Calculator | Bankrate.com Amortization Schedule Calculator - Bankrate.com
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Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
8y

Taking out a $20 personal loan at 12% to payoff a $20 mortgage at 4.5% is not going to save any money...no calculators required.

There are people who save mortgage interest using interest free periods from credit cards promotions but that's a different strategy.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y
    The simpler, cheaper way to go is to simply pay that extra $1700/mo toward the mtg, without the personal loan.
  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y
    That first month, if you did the $20k personal loan......yes. you are saving $75 in interest on the mtg, but you are paying $200 that month for interest on the personal loan ($20k at 12%).
  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    Taking out a $20 personal loan at 12% to payoff a $20 mortgage at 4.5% is not going to save any money...no calculators required.

    There are people who save mortgage interest using interest free periods from credit cards promotions but that's a different strategy.

  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @Travis Zuehls

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is just a simpler version of "Velocity banking" or "Home Ownership Acceleration" . 

    See this post for a spirited debate.

    Bottom line: paying off a lower interest rate loan with a higher interest rate loan does not save you money. Like @Wayne Brooks pointed out, if you can afford the mortgage payment AND the personal LOAN payment, you have the money in your budget to apply more to the mortgage principal each month, which negates the need for the personal loan. 

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    Taking out a $20 personal loan at 12% to payoff a $20 mortgage at 4.5% is not going to save any money...no calculators required.

    There are people who save mortgage interest using interest free periods from credit cards promotions but that's a different strategy.

    Thank you very much Mike. I was wondering if you've ever heard of business credit lines or credit cards that have 0% financing for the first 6 to 18 months? 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y

    I definitely agree with Wayne, Mike and Bill.  Never good to pay down a 4.5% loan with 12% money. Just cut back on car payments, coffee and eating out and accelerate a 4.5% loan if you want to. Be better off paying down consumer debt IMO.

    I've had some manufactured homes and can tell you the property insurance is not cheap like you mention. My policy premium was the same for my house now-$650/yr. The 1982 mobile was for $20k in replacement coverage, house now $300k and it has an ADU with additional $300k in liability protection. Mobiles were the worst value of anything I've ever insured!

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Travis Zuehls In my opinion it really just depends on your goals. If you want to be debt free and you need something to obligate you to pay quicker, then this process may work really well for you (but so could refinancing into a 15 year mortgage). 

    If your goal is to build wealth, then this mindset, in my opinion, is more the mindset of the middle class (the savers mindset) than the wealthy (investors mindset). The biggest reason that someone has pointed out already is because of the opportunity cost of spending your money to pay off a low interest loan rather than saving that money for a short period of time, buying a rental property, and allowing someone else to pay it off for you - essentially using other people’s money to create equity for you. This is what the wealthy do. They use other people money, time, and talents to make a profit. In your scenario, you are still just using your own money (except for the new loan that you then pay back yourself), time, and talents and are not leveraging anything.

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Bill F.:

    @Travis Zuehls

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is just a simpler version of "Velocity banking" or "Home Ownership Acceleration" . 

    See this post for a spirited debate.

    Bottom line: paying off a lower interest rate loan with a higher interest rate loan does not save you money. Like @Wayne Brooks pointed out, if you can afford the mortgage payment AND the personal LOAN payment, you have the money in your budget to apply more to the mortgage principal each month, which negates the need for the personal loan. 

    No bubble was burst as this was more of a question for the forum and I really didn't think it was true and was too lazy to run all the numbers last night just before bed. Yes, if one pays the 1,777 on top of the normal home loan you would pay less than if you would pay less  ( than taking out four installment loans of 20k and it would only take a few months longer.  Now if one just paid it off in thirty years with normal installments that would cost more that way.

    If one could access those business credit lines with 6-18 months of 0% interest that would be a different story. That's what I'm currently looking into. 

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    I definitely agree with Wayne, Mike and Bill.  Never good to pay down a 4.5% loan with 12% money. Just cut back on car payments, coffee and eating out and accelerate a 4.5% loan if you want to. Be better off paying down consumer debt IMO.

    I've had some manufactured homes and can tell you the property insurance is not cheap like you mention. My policy premium was the same for my house now-$650/yr. The 1982 mobile was for $20k in replacement coverage, house now $300k and it has an ADU with additional $300k in liability protection. Mobiles were the worst value of anything I've ever insured!

    So I looked into that and you're absolutely right. The reasoning is mobile homes are a higher risk for fire damage, wind damage, broken pipes and theft. 

    So, perhaps living in an area with wind protection would help (Trees or other large homes), Fire proof the home, low theft/crime location and negotiating the cost or looking for a better insurance company would help. Well at least one can still save on the property taxes. 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Travis Zuehls:
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    Taking out a $20 personal loan at 12% to payoff a $20 mortgage at 4.5% is not going to save any money...no calculators required.

    There are people who save mortgage interest using interest free periods from credit cards promotions but that's a different strategy.

    Thank you very much Mike. I was wondering if you've ever heard of business credit lines or credit cards that have 0% financing for the first 6 to 18 months? 

    Google "no interest credit cards" and you will find a bunch of sites which identify and review them.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    I definitely agree with Wayne, Mike and Bill.  Never good to pay down a 4.5% loan with 12% money. Just cut back on car payments, coffee and eating out and accelerate a 4.5% loan if you want to. Be better off paying down consumer debt IMO.

    I've had some manufactured homes and can tell you the property insurance is not cheap like you mention. My policy premium was the same for my house now-$650/yr. The 1982 mobile was for $20k in replacement coverage, house now $300k and it has an ADU with additional $300k in liability protection. Mobiles were the worst value of anything I've ever insured!

     I had some MH that were worthless as rentals I just self insured them.. 

    Also for me I am a little funny.. when I pay anything like a credit card at a restaurant with a tip or whatever I also make the number even.. so with my mortgages  lets say the mortgage is 1225  I always rounded up to 1300- or 1500... on my personal home I rounding up by a few grand a month... this served me well when the crash happened the home I was living in I had almost paid off in 7 years .. so I had enough equity in it to sell it and get a big wad of cash ( tax free on the gain of course) to live to fight another day.. if I stayed at constantly pulling cash out and reinvesting.. It would have sunk my battleship.. LOL.. got to have some back up.. in my mind.. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Travis Zuehls:

    So I looked into that and you're absolutely right. The reasoning is mobile homes are a higher risk for fire damage, wind damage, broken pipes and theft. 

    So, perhaps living in an area with wind protection would help (Trees or other large homes), Fire proof the home, low theft/crime location and negotiating the cost or looking for a better insurance company would help. Well at least one can still save on the property taxes. 

     It's the class of property so I don't think prepping the immediate area will matter, but can't hurt.  Large national carriers weren't underwriting mobiles when I had them 10 years ago, so you're stuck with niche market maker insurers that charge a lot.  

    If I get anymore, I'll self-insure like Jay does. I was buying mine with cash. Getting mortgages on them was a pain as well.  Might be different now on the funding front.  

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    @Travis Zuehls Just so you know, those BS "business credit lines with 0% for 12-18 mo.s" you see hawked by people on here are not cash credit lines....they are trade line type credit at places like home depot, office depot, etc, etc....pure crap, and they want to charge you (5 or so for the "credit lines" they "get for you".

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

    @Travis Zuehls Just so you know, those BS "business credit lines with 0% for 12-18 mo.s" you see hawked by people on here are not cash credit lines....they are trade line type credit at places like home depot, office depot, etc, etc....pure crap, and they want to charge you (5 or so for the "credit lines" they "get for you".

    Thank you very much Wayne. That's what I figured but this was never clarified through anything I've looked at. I haven't gone into depth but business credit and credit lines sounds intriguing especially with no personal guarantee, lower interest rates and higher limits. So that part of it sounds like basically an extended store card. Might be good for flippers.

  • Rental Property Investor · Westport, CT · Member since 2017 · 176 posts · 183 votes
    8y
    For my first property I put down 10%, got a mortgage for 80% and then another loan with a higher APR for the remaining 10%. The higher APR was cheaper than paying PMI fees for a 90% mortgage.Also, I probably saved with a cheaper APR on the mortgage itself. Afterward, I paid off the higher APR loan as quick as I could.
  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Michael Masters:

    For my first property I put down 10%, got a mortgage for 80% and then another loan with a higher APR for the remaining 10%. The higher APR was cheaper than paying PMI fees for a 90% mortgage.Also, I probably saved with a cheaper APR on the mortgage itself.

    Afterward, I paid off the higher APR loan as quick as I could.

    Yes Michael, this is exactly what got me into thinking about late an stacking. However, for the 20% down I'm applying for local grants for down payment assistance.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    Paying extra towards the principal is a good idea . UNTIL............................................ You need the cash , something unforseen happens , and things are tight . You cant get that cash back real quick .  here is a method that I like to use .

    Pick a number you are comfortable with .  Lets say $ 300 a month . Deposti that every month into a separate account . Then at the end of the year look at your financial picture . It looks ok , then take 1/2 of that $3600 and apply it to the principal . Now keep the same $300 going into the account , at the end of the next year , if things look good , send 1/2 as principal . 

    What you have is a reserve fund with a destination , BUT if you have a small ( or Large ) crisis . You will have liquid funds at hand . 

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Travis Zuehls:

    So I looked into that and you're absolutely right. The reasoning is mobile homes are a higher risk for fire damage, wind damage, broken pipes and theft. 

    So, perhaps living in an area with wind protection would help (Trees or other large homes), Fire proof the home, low theft/crime location and negotiating the cost or looking for a better insurance company would help. Well at least one can still save on the property taxes. 

     It's the class of property so I don't think prepping the immediate area will matter, but can't hurt.  Large national carriers weren't underwriting mobiles when I had them 10 years ago, so you're stuck with niche market maker insurers that charge a lot.  

    If I get anymore, I'll self-insure like Jay does. I was buying mine with cash. Getting mortgages on them was a pain as well.  Might be different now on the funding front.  

    So I just received a quote for a 30k Manufactured home from my insurance company. This home was quoted at $350 a year for home insurance and the annual property taxes were $150. My Mortgage would be just over $400 a month. There's 3 rooms and I would charge $700 per room which means my property taxes would be covered after one non refundable security deposit. My insurance would be covered after 2 months of rent. My mortgage payments would be covered after another 3 months of rent. Meaning I would basically be cashing in monthly payments of $2100 every month after 5 months. That's the way it should be.

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

    @Travis Zuehls Just so you know, those BS "business credit lines with 0% for 12-18 mo.s" you see hawked by people on here are not cash credit lines....they are trade line type credit at places like home depot, office depot, etc, etc....pure crap, and they want to charge you (5 or so for the "credit lines" they "get for you".

    Regular credit cards allow balance transfers of 18 months 0% interest and some have a make credit line of 100k. You could basically just transfer nearly the entire home loan onto the cards then once the term of 0% comes close to ending just transfer to another credit card that has a similar offer.

    Why pay any interest when you can get the loan for free?

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    Paying extra towards the principal is a good idea . UNTIL............................................ You need the cash , something unforseen happens , and things are tight . You cant get that cash back real quick .  here is a method that I like to use .

    Pick a number you are comfortable with .  Lets say $ 300 a month . Deposti that every month into a separate account . Then at the end of the year look at your financial picture . It looks ok , then take 1/2 of that $3600 and apply it to the principal . Now keep the same $300 going into the account , at the end of the next year , if things look good , send 1/2 as principal . 

    What you have is a reserve fund with a destination , BUT if you have a small ( or Large ) crisis . You will have liquid funds at hand . 

    Just ensure you have a 6 month emergency fund before purchasing your first rental property.

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y

    My friend, there are multiple credit cards that offer balance transfers of up to 50k and up to 18 months of 0% interest. You can transfer your home loan onto these cards. If you're for some reason unable to finish up the payments before the 18 months then just re apply for another transfer to another card to prevent paying the major interest rates.

    I'm very surprised more people don't take advantage of these opportunities.

    Also, plastics enables you to pay off your monthly mortgages. That's thousands of dollars towards points or cash back.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    I’m not nearly as experienced or being doing this as long as Jay Hinrichs but I am already doing his rounding up strategy, except instead of doing it with the payment, I do it with the mortgage balance. So I always round my mortgages to the nearest 10 or 100 dollar. This barely requires me to pay more but over time it will increase my equity substantially. And before anyone says this is a waste of money, it’s not my money, it’s my tenants money. My first house should be free and clear in 3 years of buying it (partially because of this) and partially because it was cheap.
  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Travis Zuehls:

    My friend, there are multiple credit cards that offer balance transfers of up to 50k and up to 18 months of 0% interest. You can transfer your home loan onto these cards. If you're for some reason unable to finish up the payments before the 18 months then just re apply for another transfer to another card to prevent paying the major interest rates.

    I'm very surprised more people don't take advantage of these opportunities.

    Also, plastics enables you to pay off your monthly mortgages. That's thousands of dollars towards points or cash back.

     maxing out your credit cards is a great way to totally tank your score..... if you're going to play the balance shuffle you it's probably wise to not max out your cards continuously.

    Side note, score will skyrocket once you pay them off haha

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Matt K.:
    Originally posted by @Travis Zuehls:

    My friend, there are multiple credit cards that offer balance transfers of up to 50k and up to 18 months of 0% interest. You can transfer your home loan onto these cards. If you're for some reason unable to finish up the payments before the 18 months then just re apply for another transfer to another card to prevent paying the major interest rates.

    I'm very surprised more people don't take advantage of these opportunities.

    Also, plastics enables you to pay off your monthly mortgages. That's thousands of dollars towards points or cash back.

     maxing out your credit cards is a great way to totally tank your score..... if you're going to play the balance shuffle you it's probably wise to not

    max out your cards continuously.

    Side note, score will skyrocket once you pay them off haha

    Hello Matt,

    Yes that could drop the score depending on your overall history and how much credit line you have and total open revolving credit lines as well.

    For instance I have 5 cards of nearly 100k. The one card maxed out will affect my score but I will be making on time payments every month. Also, my score will still most likely be above the 720 mark as I have a ton of history from my cards, loans, etc so one card will not destroy it. Lastly, I wouldn't be applying for another line of credit until that card balance is nearly paid off and by that time the score will be back to where it was or even higher than before. 

    It helps if one has prepared for something like this for 4-6 years by building up their credit. I've even added my rent to my credit recently which boosted it another 20 points with the app Pinch and it reports to all three credit bureaus for free.

    Now if I were to max out all the cards at the same time and start applying for more cards well that just wouldn't work out well at all. One 25k in 12 months or 50k card in 18 months is feasible depending on your revenue coming in from the property (s).

  • Bremerton, WA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 6 votes
    8y

    My Father did this with a construction loan of 23k (100 sq ft log 2 bed one bath log cabin) and transferred the balance onto a card promotion he received from his bank. He paid it off in under 12 months and his credit score increased after completion of the payments. So that's 23k of 0% (FREE MONEY). 

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