What are your MOST CREATIVE WAYS of getting BANK FINANCING?

What are your MOST CREATIVE WAYS of getting BANK FINANCING?

Shiloh LundahlPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

As many of us have come to find out in real estate investing, our ability to grow a real estate portfolio is highly dependent upon our ability to leverage our money. Or, in other words, use others people’s money to make our money go further. We can either do this through private money loans or institutional loans through banks and such. 

Because of the financial meltdown that came about largely due to bad lending practices, banks have more strict lending guidelines which is both good and bad.  It’s good in that now people have to prove that they have an ability to repay a loan they get. This helps the market not become as overinflated because there are fewer people who can qualify for a loan and thus there is less competition and lower prices. It can be bad because bankers look less at the individual borrower and their individual circumstances and they look more at the results of the algorithms that the computer gives them that decide whether or not to lend to someone. Whereas this may help lessen discrimination because it makes lending more objective rather than subjective, it also makes it difficult for investors to get the best types of loans over time because the algorithms are not created in favor of investors.

So how does an investor grow a portfolio if the algorithms are created against them? Simple, figure out the algorithms, and give the machine what it wants. 

This post and this question is for anyone who has had to get creative with getting financing for properties. What secrets or less common practices have you used in order to get loans for your properties? 

* One important thing I want to add here is that I don’t encourage mortgage fraud or lying on mortgage applications. So please don’t post anything that is illegal or that would get someone thrown in jail. Just post things that you have found that get around the the barriers of bank lending.

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Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y

Obviously my delayed finance process has been popularized for good reason (fannie mae cash-out refi with no seasoning)

Also, recently I bought a 24 unit apartment and wanted to bring outside investors in as a JV but I didn't want them to have to take on guarantor liability. Since I have been in banking for a long time I knew that most banks only require owners of 20% or more to guarantee the debt. So I just tweaked the ownership a bit and instead of 5 partners at 20% each we had 3 partners at 18% each. We all agreed and I was able to get them on board with no liability. 

Great thread @Shiloh Lundahl 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Yonah WeissPro Member
    Cost Segregation Expert and Investor · Lakewood, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Great question @Shiloh Lundahl! I love the disclaimer too. DO NOT post illegal practices that you have used. That would be pretty dumb (and self-incriminating). Better yet, DON'T DO illegal things. 

    On a fix-and-flip I did years ago, I was able to borrow funds from some friends who liked what I had done previously. They just used my track record, and trust (while secured with a note) to lend the funds necessary to complete the project.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Wittenberg, WI · Member since 2014 · 572 posts · 572 votes
    6y
    I have had a property owner refinance into a favorable loan prior to selling and then I purchased it subject to their financing staying in place. This takes some practice in negotiating, but it was a win/win transaction.
  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Derek Dombeck and @Yonah Weiss Here are a couple of new ones I just learned about:

    If you have a spouse and you want the mortgage to be in your spouse’s name only (by the way, this helps keep your personal debt to income ratio down which helps get loans) and if you own a business, then employ your spouse in that business for a few months, pay them a really high salary with w2s and then have them qualify for the loan in their name with their w2 income.

    Another one is, you can take one of your reserve accounts that you keep at the bank and you can create a trust account and fund it with your reserve account if the bank makes you have a large reserve account as part of the covenants for giving you a loan. Then you can have that trust payout a certain amount every month that can then be looked at as income to help qualify for a loan. 

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Alexander Felice, @JD Martin, @Jay Hinrichs what are some of the creative ways you have qualified for bank financing?

  • Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Obviously my delayed finance process has been popularized for good reason (fannie mae cash-out refi with no seasoning)

    Also, recently I bought a 24 unit apartment and wanted to bring outside investors in as a JV but I didn't want them to have to take on guarantor liability. Since I have been in banking for a long time I knew that most banks only require owners of 20% or more to guarantee the debt. So I just tweaked the ownership a bit and instead of 5 partners at 20% each we had 3 partners at 18% each. We all agreed and I was able to get them on board with no liability. 

    Great thread @Shiloh Lundahl 

  • Real Estate Investor · Springfield, MO · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Local banks are often a much better source than gigantic national banks and even regional banks.  You can get to know the loan officer and what his floor limit is: the amount he can approve without going to pitch it to a committee for review.

    Newer banks often have more generous terms when looking to grow their clientele. There's a bank in my area now offering 80% LTV, no points, $500 loan fee, and between 10-30 years fixed rate commercial loans at 4.75% APR. I've refi'd several properties with them recently. I used to think 30 years fixed commercial didn't exist. They're usually always adjustable after 3-7 years and/or balloon.

    My experience is you always have to submit PFS (said "piffs").  Personal financial statements.  No way around those unless the bank doesn't require them.

    Btw, I'm not sure things are as locked down as the OP suggests. Google "sub-prime loans are back" and/or check out this link. Looks like FHA is bankrolling residential mortgages for people with 500 credit scores, although that at least requires 10% down. 580 score can get a loan with 3.5% down. So it's not quite as bad as the pre-bubble, but things are trending back toward that direction. Perhaps some of the college-debt soaked millennials have gotten over being terrified of home ownership and are finally deciding they might want to buy a house after all, and the Govt wants to buy their vot.... errr...I mean, find a way to help them achieve the American Dream!

    https://www.fha.com/fha_article?id=200

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Another trick that I use when qualifying for a loan that helps my DTI ratio is the way I write my lease agreements. I write on the first page the amount that I want to charge for rent plus $100. Then, on the third page, there is what's called a nuisance clause that says that they get a $100 discount for taking care of all the minor repairs for the property. Unless an underwriter looks very carefully, they may miss the amount that the tenant really pays each month for rent. So my ratios look better and the banks lend to me more easily.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alexander Felice:

    Obviously my delayed finance process has been popularized for good reason (fannie mae cash-out refi with no seasoning)

    Also, recently I bought a 24 unit apartment and wanted to bring outside investors in as a JV but I didn't want them to have to take on guarantor liability. Since I have been in banking for a long time I knew that most banks only require owners of 20% or more to guarantee the debt. So I just tweaked the ownership a bit and instead of 5 partners at 20% each we had 3 partners at 18% each. We all agreed and I was able to get them on board with no liability. 

    Great thread  

    Keep in mind Alex % ownership in an LLC and profit distributions do not have to be the same.. that's one of the benefits to using LLC.

    the 20% rule has been around for ever.. so its quite common to always have your members less than 20%. But profit can be what ever you negotiate you could have a member with a 10% interest in the LLC and get 90% of the profit for an example.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    6y

    @Shiloh Lundahl

    Prove to bigger deals. The same bank that wouldn’t make me a loan on a 4 unit property for $275,000 made us a no personal guarantee loan for $2,475,000 on a 40,000 square foot office warehouse. It doesn’t have to make sense, just use their crazy rules to your advantage.

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Erick FigueroaPro Member
    Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    6y
    @Shiloh Lundahl, about employing wife in the business.... if she is paid for a few months with a high salary W2, she would also have to report that for tax.... so the money is being taxed twice.... if the husband is paying her from his W2 job.  Or am I missing something?  Intrigued, and wondering how that would work.


    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @Derek Dombeck and @Yonah Weiss Here are a couple of new ones I just learned about:

    If you have a spouse and you want the mortgage to be in your spouse’s name only (by the way, this helps keep your personal debt to income ratio down which helps get loans) and if you own a business, then employ your spouse in that business for a few months, pay them a really high salary with w2s and then have them qualify for the loan in their name with their w2 income.

    Another one is, you can take one of your reserve accounts that you keep at the bank and you can create a trust account and fund it with your reserve account if the bank makes you have a large reserve account as part of the covenants for giving you a loan. Then you can have that trust payout a certain amount every month that can then be looked at as income to help qualify for a loan. 

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Erick Figueroa Yes there are tax implications, but depending on the situation, sometimes it is just better to pay the tax in order to take advantage of the benefit. And I’d be happy to pay her a high amount for a few months, pay the taxes, get the loan in only her name, make my debt to income ratio look great, and then be able to continue to build a portfolio that creates more income.

  • Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Shiloh Lundahl

    For our personal residence- I had a house (and mortgage) prior to getting married. When my wife and I bought us a new house without selling the old one, the mortgage went in her name only, and they used income from my business that I would transfer into our joint acct. So they used combined income but not my name (I am self employed and it just makes things difficult)

    For my investments, I found a small 3 branch investor friendly bank. I bought a property in 2015 cash, took a loan on it in April to buy another. We filled out their app, sent the docs they requested, in 30 days had $60k loan with only $885 in fees.

    Same bank gave me an 80% loan on another house I bought in August. All they did was pull credit report again, no additional docs needed except a ProForma for the new property. Small bank was super easy! Both commercial mortgages.

  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    Hey @Shiloh Lundahl! As a new investor with no deals under my belt yet I will not be able to add a creative method I have used, but just wanted to say thank you for starting this thread. I have saved and followed it and will definitely be using it in the future to get creative with my financing.

  • Tyler RowlandBusiness Member
    Lender · Cedar City, UT · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 64 votes
    6y

    @Derek Dombeck  having the seller refinance and obtaining the note on the new rate blew my mind.  There are always things that you should have in the back of your mind when assuming a loan or doing owner financing, But I could see how that one would be a really great tool.  Thanks for sharing!

    Tyler Rowland with Intercap Lending 554 Reviews
  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

    Another trick that I use when qualifying for a loan that helps my DTI ratio is the way I write my lease agreements. I write on the first page the amount that I want to charge for rent plus $100. Then, on the third page, there is what's called a nuisance clause that says that they get a $100 discount for taking care of all the minor repairs for the property. Unless an underwriter looks very carefully, they may miss the amount that the tenant really pays each month for rent. So my ratios look better and the banks lend to me more easily.

     Hmm....  Interesting concept/tip with the plus $100 on lease agreement.  So do you collect the full amount (including $100) and then credit the tenants $100 each month?   And what happens you still need to show your tax return because the numbers won't add up on the rental income schedule reported?

  • Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    New investor, but this thread has been great! I've been considering long term how I might be able to get a house in my wife's name figuring one day I might want additional properties. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    6y

    I have a six-figure W2 income with 797 Fico... but DTI is now my biggest enemy when it comes to conventional loans... even with only 7 properties in California.

    That said, I just closed on a new house using a Hard Money Loan (HML) to keep DTI on my personal low and debt off-books. Found a lender with 8%, zero points on up to 90%LTV. I'm planning to refi onto conventional loan after minor cosmetic rehab or rented.

    Higher rate when using HML, but I see the advantage of using it to keep my DTI at bay (especially on smaller projects). Often HML additionally offer 100% Rehab loans on top of acquisition. Also another advantage with using HML is that one can buy undervalued distressed properties (that conventional banks won't lend on) ...and can close faster.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alvin Uy:
    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

    Another trick that I use when qualifying for a loan that helps my DTI ratio is the way I write my lease agreements. I write on the first page the amount that I want to charge for rent plus $100. Then, on the third page, there is what's called a nuisance clause that says that they get a $100 discount for taking care of all the minor repairs for the property. Unless an underwriter looks very carefully, they may miss the amount that the tenant really pays each month for rent. So my ratios look better and the banks lend to me more easily.

    @Alvin Uy We collect the amount minus the $100 credit if they pay on time and they are taking care of the fixes with the property. If they don't pay on time, they miss getting the credit plus they have a late fee. So they are highly motivated to pay on time or the late fee plus the credit can increase their rent by around $150.

    Also, we use our cash flow to continue to purchase properties so the amount of cash flow does not match what we get because a lot of it is used to acquire more properties.  Additionally, we collect a $3900 lease option fee so the income will likely appear higher compared to what the lease agreement states. But ultimately if they have questions with it later on we can just tell them that we are following the lease agreement and we can point out to them the terms.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:
    Originally posted by @Alvin Uy:
    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

    Another trick that I use when qualifying for a loan that helps my DTI ratio is the way I write my lease agreements. I write on the first page the amount that I want to charge for rent plus $100. Then, on the third page, there is what's called a nuisance clause that says that they get a $100 discount for taking care of all the minor repairs for the property. Unless an underwriter looks very carefully, they may miss the amount that the tenant really pays each month for rent. So my ratios look better and the banks lend to me more easily.

    @Alvin Uy We collect the amount minus the $100 credit if they pay on time and they are taking care of the fixes with the property. If they don't pay on time, they miss getting the credit plus they have a late fee. So they are highly motivated to pay on time or the late fee plus the credit can increase their rent by around $150.

    Also, we use our cash flow to continue to purchase properties so the amount of cash flow does not match what we get because a lot of it is used to acquire more properties.  Additionally, we collect a $3900 lease option fee so the income will likely appear higher compared to what the lease agreement states. But ultimately if they have questions with it later on we can just tell them that we are following the lease agreement and we can point out to them the terms.

    I noticed your signature says Burbank CA... and You mentioned Lease Option.  Are your properties with Lease Option tenants in SoCal?    Reason I asked is that im considering doing a lease option for this new property (in SoCal)  i just acquired instead of flipping it to make my numbers work.   I would love to get a copy of the lease option contract you used If possible. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    6y

    @Shiloh Lundahl

    Most Lenders require to see 2 years of W2... plus 2 mos of recent paystubs. So spouse may need to be employed more than just a few months.

    Regarding the Trust account showing monthly income....Very Interesting strategy. How will you show this as income? Would you have needed to have reported this on previous tax return for banks underwriters to consider this?

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    6y

    Here's another idea that I have been using as additional income to offset my DTI... while also able to write-off some of my other expenses....

    In my primary home, I have a dedicated office space where I run my other businesses. I have been "renting" out the room to my businesses. The rent amount is equivalent to my mortgages. Also, some of my utilities (phone lines, internet , cellphone bills, etc... even my car payments) are also directly paid by my business... and All are a huge biz write-offs. This significantly reduces my DTI... while also, showing a bigger cashflow. Win-win

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alvin Uy:

    Here's another idea that I have been using as additional income to offset my DTI... while also able to write-off some of my other expenses....

    In my primary home, I have a dedicated office space where I run my other businesses. I have been "renting" out the room to my businesses. The rent amount is equivalent to my mortgages. Also, some of my utilities (phone lines, internet , cellphone bills, etc... even my car payments) are also directly paid by my business... and All are a huge biz write-offs. This significantly reduces my DTI... while also, showing a bigger cashflow. Win-win

     Wouldn't this just be a wash? You're increasing your income but also your expenses in an equal amount.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Max T.:
    Originally posted by @Alvin Uy:

    Here's another idea that I have been using as additional income to offset my DTI... while also able to write-off some of my other expenses....

    In my primary home, I have a dedicated office space where I run my other businesses. I have been "renting" out the room to my businesses. The rent amount is equivalent to my mortgages. Also, some of my utilities (phone lines, internet , cellphone bills, etc... even my car payments) are also directly paid by my business... and All are a huge biz write-offs. This significantly reduces my DTI... while also, showing a bigger cashflow. Win-win

     Wouldn't this just be a wash? You're increasing your income but also your expenses in an equal amount.

    Not exactly. There are some tax savings involved... but either way, being a wash isn't necessarily a bad thing. Remember, my main goal with this was to get favorable financing and reduce the personal DTI creatively. Having my biz cover some of the expenses will greatly reduces my personal debt responsibilities. One of my goals in life is to always find creative ways to write-off everything somehow. Also, having my primary home generate some rental income in the eyes of the bank is a positive thing.

  • Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alvin Uy:

    Here's another idea that I have been using as additional income to offset my DTI... while also able to write-off some of my other expenses....

    In my primary home, I have a dedicated office space where I run my other businesses. I have been "renting" out the room to my businesses. The rent amount is equivalent to my mortgages. Also, some of my utilities (phone lines, internet , cellphone bills, etc... even my car payments) are also directly paid by my business... and All are a huge biz write-offs. This significantly reduces my DTI... while also, showing a bigger cashflow. Win-win

    Pretty sure you can't do it like this. The home office deduction can either be calculated as the percentage of the home that is EXCLUSIVELY used for business (associated expenses would be multiplied by this percentage), or a simplified option which is $5/sqft with a maximum of 300 sqft.

    At any rate, this does nothing for you DTI. The rent that the business pays reduces your business income by the same amount monthly that you're picking up personally.. and that reduced business income then finds its way back onto your tax return. Neither the D nor the I in DTI has changed.

    Wait, I take that back.. rental income from your primary residence generally can't be used to qualify for a mortgage, so this method actually makes your DTI worse. You'll show reduced business income, offset with an increased personal income which can not be used to qualify.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jeff C.:
    Originally posted by @Alvin Uy:

    Here's another idea that I have been using as additional income to offset my DTI... while also able to write-off some of my other expenses....

    In my primary home, I have a dedicated office space where I run my other businesses. I have been "renting" out the room to my businesses. The rent amount is equivalent to my mortgages. Also, some of my utilities (phone lines, internet , cellphone bills, etc... even my car payments) are also directly paid by my business... and All are a huge biz write-offs. This significantly reduces my DTI... while also, showing a bigger cashflow. Win-win

    Pretty sure you can't do it like this. The home office deduction can either be calculated as the percentage of the home that is EXCLUSIVELY used for business (associated expenses would be multiplied by this percentage), or a simplified option which is $5/sqft with a maximum of 300 sqft.

    Yes, Im aware of this. But I was not speaking of home office deduction... rather, I was speaking of write-offs under my biz.   I should have clarified that.  Only a portion of the house is dedicated to offices and deductions are based on sqft like you mentioned --- I actually have 2 rooms (out of 6) in the house that are dedicated exclusively for my 2 other biz.  I even have part-time employees that work in my house during the day. 

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