The Story of a Loan ‘Shopper’

The Story of a Loan ‘Shopper’

Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes

In the lending industry, there is a commonly used term called a “shopper” to describe a person who is calling every lender in town to find the best deal on a loan. Experienced lenders can usually spot a ‘shopper’ a mile away, but from time to time anyone can fall victim to one.

This is a story about a ‘shopper from hell,’ a woman named Jackie who was also desperate for a loan. After we offered her terms for the loan, she suddenly went cold on us and wouldn’t return our calls. This is a tell-tale sign that you are being ‘shopped’ by a borrower. So we forgot all about her and moved on.

Several weeks later Jackie returned and seemed motivated to move forward with our loan. So we drew up the loan documents and sent them to the Title company. Later that day, the Title company called to say that several lenders had also opened escrow on the same property! I called Jackie to find out the story. She said that she had a lender she was working with previously but that she backed out. She promised that we were her only lender now and that she had eliminated all of the other lenders. This was when we should have stopped the presses and cut our losses. But we continued in vain.

A couple of days later, Jackie went in to sign on our new loan at the Title company. Soon after she arrived to sign, we received a call from the Title company saying she left without signing. The Title guy said that she was missing the correct document she needed to sign for the business entity that held title to the property. We were very clear with Jackie as to what documents she was required to bring to Title to close. But why had she failed to bring them?

Shortly thereafter, I received a call from the person who was receiving a payoff from our new loan. He said Jackie had called him to say there would be a delay in getting him his money. He then asked her, “I thought you were at the Title company signing on the new loan?” She answered that the other lender had come back and offered her a larger loan amount. In order to keep us on the hook a little longer, she pretended to us that she was going to sign on our new loan. She deliberately forgot the document she needed to sign, and said she would have to return with it at a later time.

We were able to speak to the other lender later that day. He told us that he had been working with Jackie all along. Like us, he also had no idea she was working with another lender. He was in disbelief when I told him she was at Title that very day signing on our new loan and had left without signing. The entire time, Jackie had been playing all of us like a fiddle until she got what she wanted. Feeling very cheated and duped I was at a loss at what to do.

The moral of the story? Be wary of these loan ‘shoppers.’ They will waste your time and stretch your sense of sanity. Also, be on high alert when a person approaches you for a loan who seems desperate. This person is one who will call incessantly, email you non-stop, and in some cases text you at all hours of the day. If you suspect someone may be ‘shopping’ you, make a few calls around town to other lenders and find out.

Please share any stories you have about ‘shoppers’ or ‘desperate borrowers.’ I need some comic relief after being taken so badly by this ‘shopper from hell.’

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Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
13y

Sounds like some tenant prospects that I have come across, both the "shopping" (looking at more than one place when they will only live in one), and the "desperate" (the moving truck is loaded with furniture and parked nearby). Just plain bad people ...

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  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    13y

    Sounds like some tenant prospects that I have come across, both the "shopping" (looking at more than one place when they will only live in one), and the "desperate" (the moving truck is loaded with furniture and parked nearby). Just plain bad people ...

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Yes she lied to everyone. Then to go into the Title company to keep the charade going? Never seen such a thing before!!!!

  • Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
    13y

    Corey Dutton, forgive my naivety, but are you inferring that shopping around for the best rate/terms is bad?..

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Ryan Richard there's a difference between investigating your various 'options' versus making various lenders think you are taking their deal. Because it's a small world in lending, most of the lenders know each other. If you aren't going to take a lender's offer for a loan, let him or her off the hook right away. Don't keep them going against each other as I described in this story. If you do, you will find that the lenders will blacklist you very quickly and you won't be able to get a loan at all. A good question to ask if you are unsure is, 'Would I want someone doing this to me?' Do unto others....

  • Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
    13y

    I was more referring to this statement,

    "In the lending industry, there is a commonly used term called a "shopper" to describe a person who is calling every lender in town to find the best deal on a loan."

    Those of us on the outside looking in, would refer to this as doing your due diligence.

    The next time you are in the market for a car, don't bother shopping around, just trust that the first dealership you're going to is giving you the best deal. You wouldn't want to be labeled a "shopper"...

    I hope you aren't involved in the "blacklisting". Due unto others...

  • Investor · Valparaiso, IN · Member since 2011 · 103 posts · 65 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ryan Richard:
    I was more referring to this statement,

    "In the lending industry, there is a commonly used term called a "shopper" to describe a person who is calling every lender in town to find the best deal on a loan."

    Those of us on the outside looking in, would refer to this as doing your due diligence.

    Agreed. In fact, I came to this thread thinking it was going to be about the pain involved from the other side. I was recently shopping around for a loan to refinance one of our rentals. I kept getting calls for days and days from different representatives from one or two companies who got my information through LendingTree.com... even though I'd already talked with another representative, heard their terms, and told them no. Other reps kept ringing my phone multiple times a day for over a week. When I'd talk to them, they'd apologize and say they didn't know I'd already spoken with someone else. What a pain!

    Corey, what that person did to you was absurd. I hope that's not what lenders think of everyone who is shopping around to find the best available rate for their loan.

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Ryan Richard no need to get snappy and crappy....I think you're missing the point. You don't go to a dealership, get under contract to buy a car, then leave and go to 3 other dealerships and do the same thing. There's a difference between 'pricing' a thing and getting all of the 'salespeople' writing contracts. Calling around to get a quote is one thing, making people do unnecessary work and lying to all of them is a completely different thing.

  • Wholesaler · Newark, DE · Member since 2011 · 50 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Corey,
    There is also the problem of calling to get a quote and a GFE then the lender all of a sudden jumps terms. I have seen lenders try to slip extra points in, or along those lines. There are bad eggs on both sides. I think getting all the information into a few loan officers and getting a true GFE, which of course they make no garauntees on until they have every possible document(which I don't blame them on), is due dilligence. Correct me if I am wrong.

    "In the lending industry, there is a commonly used term called a "shopper" to describe a person who is calling every lender in town to find the best deal on a loan." makes it seem as if you are saying anyone who shops their loan is doing something wrong.

    I don't thinik you should use the car dealer metaphor, I have seen more shady *&^% done at car dealerships and motorcycle dealers than anywhere else. Until I have a full contract and all fee's spelled out at a dealership or on anything I am buying or signing up for I have no way to compare.

    How would one go about doing due dilligence on loans if they shouldn't call multiple brokers/mortgage companies? I am not being snarky or anything else I am looking to understand from your side of the table. how can one go about finding the best deal on a loan without offending the loan officer.

  • Wholesaler · Newark, DE · Member since 2011 · 50 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    I agree though that going that far is ridiculous, wouldn't she have known the terms of the loan in full a few weeks in advance. I can't fathom why she would need to keep stringing anyone along and lying.

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Like I said, there's a HUGE difference between rate shopping and stringing a lender along to the point where they draw up loan documents. I think this post is good for many of you to read so you can understand the difference.

  • Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
    13y

    Actually, I do that when I buy a car. Until the signature is captured, there is no deal. Did this shopper from hell do anything against the law?

    I bought my first home when I was 21 and, looking back, feel that I was taken advantage of. I trusted my lender but by the time we got to closing, the rate had increased over a full point from our original agreement. I signed in good faith. I should have walked away and "shopped around".

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I've never had a loan (purchase) where I wasn't invested monetarily in some way before closing, already paying appraisal, credit check, and other fees to the lender. Just wondering if she had any money invested in your loan, or she got all the way to close without having to put up a penny? Looks like you are a private lender, so maybe it works differently than conventional, which is what I'm familiar with. Just wondering how committed she was to all this, paying different fees at different lenders knowing she's going to walk away from one, added cost of doing business, or was she not risking any of her own money? If not, maybe there should be some sort of commitment fee paid before getting to the document stage?

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Ryan Richard what that lender did was illegal and you have recourse on something like that. Because a lender screws you, doesn't give you the right to do the same to other lenders. Again, do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Going through life with a chip on your shoulder won't help you, it's just going to hurt you.

    The moral here is, get various term sheets from various lenders, but don't lie and make all of them think they are getting the loan and get everyone working for you for nothing. What comes around goes around and eventually someone will do the same to you. It's not cool....

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Lynn M. - no because it's a hard money loan there is no appraisal fee, inspection fee, admin fee. This woman didn't pay a dime. This is one of the reason that legit lenders charge upfront fees. A $150 upfront fee may seem trivial but it works wonders to keep borrowers honest.

  • Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
    13y

    Corey Dutton, I'm not endorsing what this lady did by leading you into believing that you both had a deal. I would agree that she probably took this too far.

    My main question was regarding the "shopper" comment. I guess the next time I shop for a loan I'll introduce myself like this: "hi, my name is Ryan and I'm a "shopper".

    Oh and no chip on my shoulder. I don't hold grudges. In disputes, like the law, I typically give the consumer the benefit of the doubt.

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Ryan Richard go Aggies! NOT! Hook em'!

  • Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
    13y

    Corey Dutton, Ha. Actually, as I'm typing this message at my desk, I'm about 20 minutes from DKR stadium. I went to high school with a guy on the 05 national championship team.

    But yeah, Gig Em for sure.

  • Lender · Upland, CA · Member since 2009 · 112 posts · 27 votes
    13y

    It seems that Corey is more referring to an applicant that stringed her along thru the whole process without being upfront that she was shopping. This is obviously no good.

    The title of this blog may not be very good though (no offense Corey), I came here thinking I would read some horror stories from an RE investor shopping around and getting different changing quotes.

    We are hard money lenders and we get people shopping all the time, we are shoppers ourselves, we dont see any problem with "shoppers", we are actually thankful for being in the US and having options. We expect our borrowers to shop around otherwise we are not really dealing with good RE investors.

    As lenders we must know the difference between quoting and processing, sometimes its a fine line but we must see the difference. When applicants go to the processing phase and then dont close, we add them to our "list" and if they want to process again we will require an advanced payment.

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Again, just to reiterate, there's a huge difference between getting a 'quote' or 'rate and term' from a lender and keeping several lenders going simultaneously all the way to the closing table making all of them do a large amount of work only to find out the borrower is closing with another lender for 1/2 point less as a loan fee or something crazy. I think a lot of real estate investors do this kind of thing to make sure they have multiple options for financing. This post is to show what it's like for the lenders on the other side of the table. Again, I think the moral of the story is, 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.' Be honest and your lenders will appreciate it.

    As Juan Carlos said, you'll risk getting blacklisted or you'll pay an upfront fee the next time to keep you honest.

  • Wholesaler · Boston, MA · Member since 2013 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    I can understand @Corey Dutton point and the point of others. There are two different situations that happen when someone is searching for the "best" loan program and has found a program but gives the assumption that they are "sticking" to it but don't. I have worked on both sides of the fence. Working with a principal who gives you all the reason to think they are "all in" then turns into "slim shaddy" is not cool. Pehaps "shopping" was or is not the right term, I get it. I would like to think of it as "searching/due diligence" for the best rate and term. Not all loan programs are created equal, and not all lenders who say they are legit are.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I am going through a loan right now and a "typo" from the lender on the GFE would have cost me over $2,000 had I not caught it. There were some other paperwork mistakes as well on other documents. It's making me think twice about using this lender, although now I'm so far down the process I don't want to back out.

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    13y

    @Corey Dutton while I agree this person was a jerk you should be able to protect yourself better. My preferred HML charges inspection fees.
    Now he rolls them in at closing, but on our first deal I wrote a check at the property.
    At that point we had discussed rates, terms, closing costs and all that stuff and this was verification that the info on the property was right. So it protected him from wasting time pulling together a closing package but I wasn't worried he was taking a fee and not going to do the loan.

  • Real Estate Broker · Buchanan, MI · Member since 2013 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Corey Dutton:
    If you do, you will find that the lenders will blacklist you very quickly and you won't be able to get a loan at all.

    I'm a newbie, so my apologies if my question is out of line, but i'm honestly intrigued by this comment. As a commercial lender (non mortgage) myself, I understand your frustration from "shoppers", but how can a lender legally blacklist an applicant? I cant imagine this being legal, but even if it was, you would be opening your firm up to major potential litigation.

    Under the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, every applicant can require a written explanation for why they were offered less favorable terms or denied. The creditor must tell you the specific reason for the rejection or that you are entitled to learn the reason if you ask within 60 days. An acceptable reason might be: “your income was too low” or “you haven’t been employed long enough.” An unacceptable reason might be “you didn’t meet our minimum standards.” That information isn’t specific enough, and "we didn't like that you shopped us" is definitely a red flag. While this might not come back to bite you, I would think that if an investor was savvy enough to shop all of the lenders in town, then they might be savvy enough to litigate if they realized that they had colluded against or "blacklisted".

    Slow playing an applicant, offering generic rates or even being slow to return calls/answer questions are one thing... blacklisting an applicant seems like something completely different.

  • Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
    13y

    Did the "shopper" close on the other loan?

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    13y

    Michael Rowland, please understand we don't blacklist our clients, e.g. we don't have a black list. This is very common however in the private money lending industry, which is truly itty bitty. Our new policy is to charge a commitment fee to this type of borrower if they return in the future. Even $150 can prove to keep clients committed to a loan. You'd be surprised at what little cash people will walk away from.

    However, there are some lenders that use this 'commitment fee' as a disguise for 'fee collecting' as a business activity rather than lending as a business activity. We call these fee collector lenders.

    Again, just to reiterate. Our company does not have a "black list" per say but this is common in the private money lending arena.

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