Do I need a CPA? ANSWER INSIDE

Do I need a CPA? ANSWER INSIDE

Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes

As your income and real estate portfolio grow, reaching the $150,000 marks in my opinion the beginning of your financial journey into real estate. It's at this juncture where you likely have around 20-40k saved up, and you’re ready to buy that first rental or maybe you even already have one. Hiring a real estate-focused accountant for tax preparation and advisory services becomes not just beneficial but crucial here. Up until this point, when your income was lower and you were following a more “vanilla” financial strategy, the need for a specialized accountant might not have been apparent. However, as you move into a higher income bracket and acquire rental property, the complexities of tax planning and financial strategy escalate, making the expertise of a skilled accountant invaluable.

A real estate-focused accountant brings a nuanced understanding of the tax implications and intricacies specific to the real estate industry. Beyond preparing your taxes, they can provide insightful advice on optimizing your financial structure, identifying potential deductions, and strategizing for future investments. This phase in your financial journey is akin to setting up the foundation of a building; a solid foundation ensures stability and growth. The same principle applies to your finances, and a knowledgeable accountant can be the architect of that foundation. Moreover, by collaborating with an accountant who works with investors at various stages of their journey, you not only gain access to their expertise but also tap into a wealth of collective knowledge. It's like having free mentoring embedded in your financial team, as they share insights from working with individuals both earlier and farther along in their real estate endeavors. This symbiotic relationship can prove invaluable as you navigate the complexities of real estate taxation and financial planning, ultimately propelling you towards greater financial success. This is why when people ask “Should I get an accountant” on the bigger pockets forum I usually answer 9/10 times yes. Often times people are already far along their journey and have made mistakes they could have avoided simply by working with the right tax pro.

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Member since 2024 · 400 posts · 240 votes
2y

Does the 'specialized accountant' have to be within the state due to applicable RE state laws (if any) as it pertains to each state?

Do clients with 'regular' accountants now retain 2 accountants or switch regular accounting to the specialized accountant(under one roof)?  Why and why not?  Pros and cons. Challenges and benefits of each option. 

Investors and accountants, please chip in.  Thanks.

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  • Member since 2024 · 400 posts · 240 votes
    2y

    Does the 'specialized accountant' have to be within the state due to applicable RE state laws (if any) as it pertains to each state?

    Do clients with 'regular' accountants now retain 2 accountants or switch regular accounting to the specialized accountant(under one roof)?  Why and why not?  Pros and cons. Challenges and benefits of each option. 

    Investors and accountants, please chip in.  Thanks.

  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y

    Hey @Kevin S., 

    The specialized accountant (lets just stick with real estate for this convo) will likely not be your local accountant. The best accountants in this space work all over the US, since their clients are investing all over the US. 

    To answer your second question: You only need one accountant, so you might as well work with the one who focuses in the investment strategy you're doing and ideally does it themselves. Its best to be aligned in that way, and working with anyone else is a big disadvantage as rules quickly become stale. 

  • Accountant · NH · Member since 2019 · 269 posts · 288 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kevin S.:

    Does the 'specialized accountant' have to be within the state due to applicable RE state laws (if any) as it pertains to each state?

    Do clients with 'regular' accountants now retain 2 accountants or switch regular accounting to the specialized accountant(under one roof)?  Why and why not?  Pros and cons. Challenges and benefits of each option. 

    Investors and accountants, please chip in.  Thanks.


     I'll offer a different opinion here - on the first question, consider the rules of your local jurisdiction.  If you live in a state with highly specialized or locality rules - NY, OH, NH, it is worth either considering local, or at least firm that has on board expertise within your jurisdiction.  75% of the time when I work with a NH investor that was previously working with an out of state accountant...they've made errors (in some cases costly ones) on the NH business tax returns.  Many states are not that complicated though.

    Choose an accountant that focuses in your area of specialty, preferably choose a firm that can address most of your needs and where you want to grow.  If one doesn't have dynamic needs, then just focus on that specialty.  If you expect to have a more dynamic need - say you'll be investing nation wide and will need to address State and Local Tax issues in a number of different jurisdictions, or you'll be buying a property in the Caribbean, or you want tax advice on your estate/trust/gift planning, or now you are hiring employees and you want to ensure you are getting help when it comes to tax considerations of your employee benefit plans, or whatever avenue you go - maybe a Regional firm or one specialized in real estate all over will be your best fit over the more mom and pop practitioner.

    I always disagree with needing to work with an accountant that invests.  It might give you peace of mind as a newer / smaller investor, but in the end you have a problem you want to solve (taxes and being compliant), and if your tax guys owns a duplex will have no impact on his ability to address those issues.  If you have cancer...you don't care if your oncologist has had cancer, you just care if he is the best to solve your problem.  Your CPA/EA isn't selling you a dream of real estate investment that they somehow don't believe in since they don't own any - they are selling you a solution to your problem.

    (I'm biased, I have no direct ownership in real estate outside of my own home,)

  • Member since 2024 · 400 posts · 240 votes
    2y

    Thanks for your different input.  So I gather couple of things from your response.  Try to get a local accountant and that accountant doesn't have to own RE to offer solution. 

    Do accountants geared towards RE investors even want to handle non RE accounting needs?  Zach said to keep only one accountant.  I wonder what other investors here who have small businesses and invest in RE keep one or two accountants.  Awaiting more responses.

  • Jana CainPro Member
    Enrolled Agent · Richmond, CA · Member since 2016 · 225 posts · 148 votes
    2y

    @Kevin S. I agree with @Kory Reynolds - you want to work with a professional who fundamentally understands your business, whatever that is. Yes, there is nuance to real estate, just like there is nuance to any business. You want your accountant (tax preparer and/or bookkeeper) to understand how to classify your business items - fundamentally, there are just 5 categories of entries (asset, liability, equity, income, expense) and the transaction is booked as a debit or credit to the appropriate category. So, for exampe, if you're in the business of selling a product, be it houses, horses, or Halloween costumes, your chosen pro needs to where to stick your inventory, and how to track it. They don't need to be in that business themselves to understand how to do the accounting. 

    As for whether or not you can use the same accountant for all of your needs, that is harder to answer. A multi-accountant firm might be more likely to have practitioners that specialize in your various areas of business, whereas a solo shop may be much more limited. For example, I specialize in just a few industries (RE being the bulk of my clients), but I don't enjoy cost accounting, or dealing with high turnover inventory, so I don't have any retail/ecommerce or manufacturing clients. I know of accountants that do specialize in these areas, but they don't touch real estate at all. So do some investors have multiple accountants? Yes, some do. It wouldn't be all that strange for someone to have a bookkeeper for their real estate business, a bookkeeper for their non-real estate business, and a tax preparer who takes the reports from the bookkeepers and files the return(s). All three could be part of the same firm, or they could each work solo in their own business focused on those areas. 

    The benefit of having one person (or one firm) handling everything is consistency in the work product. Plus you know your tax preparer will find the bookkeeping acceptable (it's not uncommon for the tax pro to have preferences as to how they like to see information presented). The cons are it could be pricier to have one person/firm do it all - a qualified tax preparer likely charges more for bookkeeping than a standalone bookkeeper. I have a REI bookkeeping client that I don't prepare the returns for, but I work closely with their chosen firm to make sure the financial statements look they way they want them to (and I also explain to them my preferences for reporting, so they understand why I categorize certain items in certain ways). Their CPA firm's rates are much higher than my bookkeeping rates (they're a firm with staff, I'm a solo practitioner), so for this particular client it makes financial sense for them to have an accounting "team" vs running everything through just the CPA firm.

    My recommendation is to evaluate your existing needs and how you expect them to change over time, and then do your research accordingly. 

  • Member since 2024 · 400 posts · 240 votes
    2y

    Thanks Jana.  You answered question 'to the point' by far.  Should accountant handling RE need to be local to the state?  Are there state laws in addition to IRS rules in RE investments that makes it better to choose local?  

  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kory Reynolds:
    Quote from @Kevin S.:

    Does the 'specialized accountant' have to be within the state due to applicable RE state laws (if any) as it pertains to each state?

    Do clients with 'regular' accountants now retain 2 accountants or switch regular accounting to the specialized accountant(under one roof)?  Why and why not?  Pros and cons. Challenges and benefits of each option. 

    Investors and accountants, please chip in.  Thanks.


     I'll offer a different opinion here - on the first question, consider the rules of your local jurisdiction.  If you live in a state with highly specialized or locality rules - NY, OH, NH, it is worth either considering local, or at least firm that has on board expertise within your jurisdiction.  75% of the time when I work with a NH investor that was previously working with an out of state accountant...they've made errors (in some cases costly ones) on the NH business tax returns.  Many states are not that complicated though.

    Choose an accountant that focuses in your area of specialty, preferably choose a firm that can address most of your needs and where you want to grow.  If one doesn't have dynamic needs, then just focus on that specialty.  If you expect to have a more dynamic need - say you'll be investing nation wide and will need to address State and Local Tax issues in a number of different jurisdictions, or you'll be buying a property in the Caribbean, or you want tax advice on your estate/trust/gift planning, or now you are hiring employees and you want to ensure you are getting help when it comes to tax considerations of your employee benefit plans, or whatever avenue you go - maybe a Regional firm or one specialized in real estate all over will be your best fit over the more mom and pop practitioner.

    I always disagree with needing to work with an accountant that invests.  It might give you peace of mind as a newer / smaller investor, but in the end you have a problem you want to solve (taxes and being compliant), and if your tax guys owns a duplex will have no impact on his ability to address those issues.  If you have cancer...you don't care if your oncologist has had cancer, you just care if he is the best to solve your problem.  Your CPA/EA isn't selling you a dream of real estate investment that they somehow don't believe in since they don't own any - they are selling you a solution to your problem.

    (I'm biased, I have no direct ownership in real estate outside of my own home,)


     Great points here!

  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kevin S.:

    Thanks for your different input.  So I gather couple of things from your response.  Try to get a local accountant and that accountant doesn't have to own RE to offer solution. 

    Do accountants geared towards RE investors even want to handle non RE accounting needs?  Zach said to keep only one accountant.  I wonder what other investors here who have small businesses and invest in RE keep one or two accountants.  Awaiting more responses.


     So my firm specializes in working with folks who own small businesses who want to invest in real estate funny enough. The reason we like that is because it allows us to narrow in and focus on a few core tax strategies that we feel are solid and proven ways of building wealth, so much so we do them ourselves. 

    The reason I suggest only one accountant, and ideally the one specialized in your "area of investing" Is because they will be the most up-to-date and informed on policy around that area, and best suited to serve you since they are doing it themselves. 

    There are so many tax law changes, and its impossible to keep up with every single one of them and do it well. Working with a specialized accountant in my view aligns things perfectly

  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jana Cain:

    @Kevin S. I agree with @Kory Reynolds - you want to work with a professional who fundamentally understands your business, whatever that is. Yes, there is nuance to real estate, just like there is nuance to any business. You want your accountant (tax preparer and/or bookkeeper) to understand how to classify your business items - fundamentally, there are just 5 categories of entries (asset, liability, equity, income, expense) and the transaction is booked as a debit or credit to the appropriate category. So, for exampe, if you're in the business of selling a product, be it houses, horses, or Halloween costumes, your chosen pro needs to where to stick your inventory, and how to track it. They don't need to be in that business themselves to understand how to do the accounting. 

    As for whether or not you can use the same accountant for all of your needs, that is harder to answer. A multi-accountant firm might be more likely to have practitioners that specialize in your various areas of business, whereas a solo shop may be much more limited. For example, I specialize in just a few industries (RE being the bulk of my clients), but I don't enjoy cost accounting, or dealing with high turnover inventory, so I don't have any retail/ecommerce or manufacturing clients. I know of accountants that do specialize in these areas, but they don't touch real estate at all. So do some investors have multiple accountants? Yes, some do. It wouldn't be all that strange for someone to have a bookkeeper for their real estate business, a bookkeeper for their non-real estate business, and a tax preparer who takes the reports from the bookkeepers and files the return(s). All three could be part of the same firm, or they could each work solo in their own business focused on those areas. 

    The benefit of having one person (or one firm) handling everything is consistency in the work product. Plus you know your tax preparer will find the bookkeeping acceptable (it's not uncommon for the tax pro to have preferences as to how they like to see information presented). The cons are it could be pricier to have one person/firm do it all - a qualified tax preparer likely charges more for bookkeeping than a standalone bookkeeper. I have a REI bookkeeping client that I don't prepare the returns for, but I work closely with their chosen firm to make sure the financial statements look they way they want them to (and I also explain to them my preferences for reporting, so they understand why I categorize certain items in certain ways). Their CPA firm's rates are much higher than my bookkeeping rates (they're a firm with staff, I'm a solo practitioner), so for this particular client it makes financial sense for them to have an accounting "team" vs running everything through just the CPA firm.

    My recommendation is to evaluate your existing needs and how you expect them to change over time, and then do your research accordingly. 


     Agree with this Jana! Thank you for replying 

  • Accountant · NH · Member since 2019 · 269 posts · 288 votes
    2y

    Your answer to those questions will be "it depends" - it depends on the state and local jurisdictions that you and your real estate investments (or other business ventures) are subject to.  The CPA themselves don't need to be local, what is important is that they (or their team) can address any specialty concerns of your locality.  And even then...many state / local jurisdictions require effectively no specialty knowledge.  

    There is definitely no one size fits all for how to look for a CPA / firm - it is going to be highly individualistic.  

  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kory Reynolds:

    Your answer to those questions will be "it depends" - it depends on the state and local jurisdictions that you and your real estate investments (or other business ventures) are subject to.  The CPA themselves don't need to be local, what is important is that they (or their team) can address any specialty concerns of your locality.  And even then...many state / local jurisdictions require effectively no specialty knowledge.  

    There is definitely no one size fits all for how to look for a CPA / firm - it is going to be highly individualistic.  


     Classic CPA answer 😛 but it is in fact true. Alot of this comes down to personal facts and circumstances. The purpose of my post was to paint a typical archetype, and what I thought was the best move for that particular type of person. 

  • Member since 2024 · 400 posts · 240 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kory Reynolds:

    Your answer to those questions will be "it depends" - it depends on the state and local jurisdictions that you and your real estate investments (or other business ventures) are subject to.  The CPA themselves don't need to be local, what is important is that they (or their team) can address any specialty concerns of your locality.  And even then...many state / local jurisdictions require effectively no specialty knowledge.  

    There is definitely no one size fits all for how to look for a CPA / firm - it is going to be highly individualistic.  


     Thanks.  Just like choosing an attorney that should be licensed in the state of his/her client (state law applies and differs) I wasn't sure if the same hold true for accountants and whether local tax laws differ from state to state.  Especially an investor who is not a W2 earner but has small business.  

  • Accountant · NH · Member since 2019 · 269 posts · 288 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kevin S.:
    Quote from @Kory Reynolds:

    Your answer to those questions will be "it depends" - it depends on the state and local jurisdictions that you and your real estate investments (or other business ventures) are subject to.  The CPA themselves don't need to be local, what is important is that they (or their team) can address any specialty concerns of your locality.  And even then...many state / local jurisdictions require effectively no specialty knowledge.  

    There is definitely no one size fits all for how to look for a CPA / firm - it is going to be highly individualistic.  


     Thanks.  Just like choosing an attorney that should be licensed in the state of his/her client (state law applies and differs) I wasn't sure if the same hold true for accountants and whether local tax laws differ from state to state.  Especially an investor who is not a W2 earner but has small business.  


     CPA / EA are (thankfully!) unlike attorneys in that regard - they do not be licensed in a particular jurisdiction to prepare tax returns and provide advice related to that Jurisdiction.  I say thankfully since it is not uncommon, especially in todays world, to have relatively small businesses filing in a high volume of states - it would be a massive headache to have to be licensed in all of them!

  • Member since 2024 · 400 posts · 240 votes
    2y

    If I am a business owner in Texas and looking to start investing in RE, do I look for accountant who will take care of my business accounting as well as RE investing side of it?  

    Do accountants geared towards RE investors stay out of 'business' accounting? 

    Do business accountants do a better job of the business side than a RE accountant? 

  • Nate MeekerBusiness Member
    Real Estate CPA | California · Member since 2020 · 543 posts · 251 votes
    2y

    Great post! 

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