Can seller backout of contract PLEASE HELP

Can seller backout of contract PLEASE HELP

Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote

I am a first time homebuyer in California who has been looking for a home for a year and a half. Never been in escrow before as I was always priced out. But finally got my offer accepted but ran into this issue.

Seller had done the pest inspection through a company which quoted him $8500 for pest work. Report was on MLS. We read this inspection report and knew that if we buy the home we won't be going with this pest company as their quote was very expensive.We bid on the home and our offer was highest. Seller countered saying that the house will be sold "As is" and he verbally told us that he will not do pest work. We said ok and we signed the contract.

Now I am in the 17 day contingency period. We did home inspection and found lots of small issues....nothing really big. Sellers agent emails us saying that the company that gave pest quote was scheduled to do the work next week and asked us if we want to go ahead with the pest work through that company. We told him no and that we want our own pest inspector to give us a new quote as we are paying for it anyways. Two days later the sellers agent replies that the pest work is already done. The company went ahead and did the work without his knowledge. The seller knew about it but the agent didn't.

Now the agent says we have to pay fully to the pest company as we said in the contract that seller won't pay for the pest. But the contract says the home is being sold as is plus we have email proof that we were trying to get better quotes while the original company was doing the work without our knowledge.

The seller already has a higher offer on the house which he received after he accepted our offer. So I am sure he will try to back out if we don't pay the pest guy.

Can he back out of this sale ? What if he is unwilling to close the escrow until I pay the pest company ? What are my options ?

If you know a lawyer who can advise me on this issue please let me know.

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y

I'm not a lawyer, but here's what I'd do...

First, I don't believe you have any obligation to pay for the pest control, and the seller doesn't have any right to back out of the deal because of it.

Second, you may have some recourse if the seller tries to back out, but that will depend on the contract. But there's likely an easier way...

Assuming you have an agent, your agent is almost certainly entitled to his commission on this deal; in my state, if a seller backs out, it's very easy for the buyer's agent to get a judgement against the seller for their commission. Which means that if the seller backs out, they'll still be on the hook for the agent's commission; if this house is in CA, it's quite likely that the commission is more than $8500 (the amount of the pest control).

I'd have your agent remind the listing agent that their client will be on the hook for the buyer's agent commission, plus also may face other action from you. It's quite possible just the idea of having to pay the extra commission will be enough to get the seller to do the right thing.

If that doesn't work, the next step is to go to the listing agent's broker and see if the broker can talk some sense into his agent and the seller.

If neither of those work, get a lawyer...

See this reply in the discussion

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    I'm not a lawyer, but here's what I'd do...

    First, I don't believe you have any obligation to pay for the pest control, and the seller doesn't have any right to back out of the deal because of it.

    Second, you may have some recourse if the seller tries to back out, but that will depend on the contract. But there's likely an easier way...

    Assuming you have an agent, your agent is almost certainly entitled to his commission on this deal; in my state, if a seller backs out, it's very easy for the buyer's agent to get a judgement against the seller for their commission. Which means that if the seller backs out, they'll still be on the hook for the agent's commission; if this house is in CA, it's quite likely that the commission is more than $8500 (the amount of the pest control).

    I'd have your agent remind the listing agent that their client will be on the hook for the buyer's agent commission, plus also may face other action from you. It's quite possible just the idea of having to pay the extra commission will be enough to get the seller to do the right thing.

    If that doesn't work, the next step is to go to the listing agent's broker and see if the broker can talk some sense into his agent and the seller.

    If neither of those work, get a lawyer...

  • Brian BurkePro Member
    Investor · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    13y

    That's good advice from J Scott, and I'll add another suggestion. If you can get an idea of what YOUR pest company would have charged, you might offer to increase your offer price by that amount. You were going to pay for the pest work anyways, and by having the work done there is added value in the deal (and better yet you can now add the cost into your financing if it appraises high enough). That, coupled with the possibility of a lawsuit or buyers agent commission obligation if they violate the contract and back out, might convince them to cut their losses and eat the balance of their mistake.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Hi Brian,

    I have thought about the option of proposing to increase the purchase price to offeset the pest cost. Problem is that I am paying 24% down to get a loan amount less than 417k which lets me use conventional interest rates instead of super conforming rates(+0.3% to 0.5% higher). Purchase price is 560k. Now if I increase the purchase price either I will also have to live with the higher rate plus I will loose the interest rate lock. Interest rates have moved higher since my lock.

    So increasing the purchase price would only require me to pay more downpayment if I wish to keep the interest rate the same.

    My realtor is suggesting going through negotiation overseen by attorneys from California Association of Realtors present. If that doesn't work we will have to either back out or sue the seller for not closing.

  • CA · Member since 2011 · 762 posts · 182 votes
    13y

    Another suggestion, sometimes agents are willing to reduce their commission some to make the deal go. How much is the difference between the two pest quotes, if it isn't too much maybe the agent's would be willing to eat it. If you don't have a second quote, just throw out a number you would be comfortable with.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y

    I assume the pest control work had to be done prior to, or soon after closing, for your financing, so you were going to pay cash out of pocket. Offer the amount of whatever legitimate quote you get, as additional cash at the closing. That with the real possibilty of you suing for breach/specific performance, and commissions being due should make him come around. Are you sure your contract doesn't specifically address the pest work, or in some fashion(ie. lender required repairs, etc)?

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    No the contract has no mention of pest. The seller assumes that pest is required but that is usually a lender requirement. I don't know if my lender would make an issue out of it or not.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    I tried getting a second quote but the new pest guy said he can't go on the property until the first pest guy has given a completion certificate. He said if he goes there and issues a report the other guy can sue him saying that he was already working on it and the work wasn't done yet so how can he evaluate.

  • Lender · Woodland Hills, CA · Member since 2013 · 364 posts · 115 votes
    13y

    Gaurav, you have been given wise advice by our learned BP Brothers.

    Here is my .02:

    This sounds like your personal residence v. a rental property.

    So if the missus has already mindfully moved in, this is a subjective purchase. . . . rather than just about the numbers.

    If it is a good deal, and it is what your gut says. . . then suck it up and pony up the piddly $8500, the appreciation will eventually erase whatever perceived mistake you feel you have made.

    If you get an attorney involved and suing for Action for Specific Performance, it will cost you thousands to donkey punch the seller into complying.

    Of course don't just lie down. Go back and forth with the above advice, and decide what is your walk away price.

    Is the $8500 additional food stamps such a breach that it sours you?

    Keep us informed,

    Tevis

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Tevis : I agree with you. I also agree with others that I should settle this by offering him something even though I don't owe anything as per the contract.

    Problem is during the inspection I found that the heater is 50 year old and the heating duct with asbestos is bent and needs to be replaced. That cost in itself is $6000 I wasn't anticipating. Since I bought the home "As-is" I don't have negotiating power here.

    So to buy or not to buy is sort of hanging on the outcome of this pest issue.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    13y

    "As is" DOES NOT mean no negotiation. It means the seller won't fix anything. If you found something during your inspection you can certainly go back to the seller and try to renegotiate a repair credit or price reduction. As is means they aren't going to make repairs, that's all.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Oh.... I didn't know that. Well they already have a backup offer higher than mine so probably they won't negotiate anyways.

    I guess I am counting on the pest issue to get resolved in my favor.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    IMO, the seller and agent made a huge mistake letting pest work get done when you were still in your inspection period. The seller now owes the pest company bill. This is not your problem.

    As-is has nothing to do with counter offers after you do your inspections. I sell everything as-is. The buyers always try to re-negotiate based on what they find after inspections. Sometimes I make concessions and sometimes I don't. Mostly I don't because I usually think I priced it right for an as-is sale. But it's all negotiable.

    Make the seller aware of the replacement duct work issue and provide your quote. Make sure you use the word asbestos in there somewhere. He's now aware of a hazardous substance that previously he probably wasn't. He now has to disclose that to the next buyer. Make the seller aware that you think the pest work is worth xxx. You don't need a quote from another pest company. The work is done and you either agree to pay for all or part, but there's no need to spend any money or time getting another quote.

    You're actually in a fine bargaining position. If you don't close, the seller has to pay the pest company out of pocket. If you don't close the seller has to disclose the furnace issue. You have no idea what the terms of the other, supposedly higher offer are. So don't even bother thinking about it when calculating your counter. Figure out what you now want to pay, based on your findings from the inspections. Have your agent make your counter offer and let the seller respond.

    This is just the first round. After you decide what you want to pay and the seller will accept, there's the lender's appraisal.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:

    Make the seller aware of the replacement duct work issue and provide your quote. Make sure you use the word asbestos in there somewhere. He's now aware of a hazardous substance that previously he probably wasn't. He now has to disclose that to the next buyer.

    I was about to say that, but K. Marie beat me to it, as usual... :)

    I would actually make sure your agent provides this information about the asbestos in writing to both the listing agent and the listing agent's broker, so everyone is on notice that if it turns out the information is not disclosed to the next buyer, someone could lose their license.

    Do that, and the seller may realize that it's easier to just negotiate with you than to encourage you to continue to try to screw him over for his unethical ways... :)

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:

    Make the seller aware of the replacement duct work issue and provide your quote. Make sure you use the word asbestos in there somewhere. He's now aware of a hazardous substance that previously he probably wasn't. He now has to disclose that to the next buyer.

    I was about to say that, but K. Marie beat me to it, as usual... :)

    I would actually make sure your agent provides this information about the asbestos in writing to both the listing agent and the listing agent's broker, so everyone is on notice that if it turns out the information is not disclosed to the next buyer, someone could lose their license.

    Do that, and the seller may realize that it's easier to just negotiate with you than to encourage you to continue to try to screw him over for his unethical ways... :)

    You're in a fine negotiation position. These two are two of the best I see post on here, pay attention to what they say. Your buyers agent or at the very least their broker should be able to provide you step by step. At least in michigan, and ohio, you can stop the next buyer from closing if the seller tries to illegally back out of the contract.

    I personally wouldn't offer the seller a dime for the repairs unless my buyer specifically stated they were paying for the pest inspection in the purchase agreement. What repairs the seller wants to do randomly isn't your responsibility. You need to make sure at no point your agent inferred you'd be going ahead with that company.

    -Joe

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    13y

    One final thing is don't panic. Assuming everything you said here is the whole story, you'll be fine.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y

    Ditto what Jon Holdman, K. Marie Poe, J Scott have told you. Also to clarify, an "as is" contract simply means the owner is not Required to do repairs, at the contract price. It doesn't mean he won't negotiate issues, or make some repairs.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    Thanks a lot guys. This community is awesome !!

    I talked to an attorney and he advised me to write a scary looking email/letter to the seller telling him that we are going to perform as per the contract and we are not going to pay anything for the pest work. Nowhere in the communication with the selling agent we have mentioned that we will pay the seller or we will do pest work on the property.

    He has not responded back yet. I will keep you guys updated.

    I am also going to get a quote from the Duct work company and the heater company to replace these items. I will send the seller a Request to Repair form with the option to pay for these items during closing or reducing the offer price. Most likely he won't agree but it would be nice to bring that on the record so that he knows that the next buyer will see the inspection report.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Whoa. The point of these negotiations isn't to screw over the seller. He just paid $8500 for pest treatment and repairs.....that the property probably needed. Although I assume it was overpriced as letting pest companies do repairs is a bad idea. Regardless, you're essentially getting several thousand dollars of completed repairs for free if you insist on performing on the contract price. And then you're going to ask for additional repairs after backing him into giving you the termite repairs for free? Play nice.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:
    Whoa. The point of these negotiations isn't to screw over the seller. He just paid $8500 for pest treatment and repairs.....that the property probably needed.

    The seller is trying to screw over the buyer by *FORCING* him (with the threat of losing the deal) to pay for a service the buyer clearly wasn't interested in.

    The property may have needed pest work done, but I can't imagine what $8500 in pest remediation entails. Most likely, the seller is friends with or otherwise working with the pest control company -- and is trying to use the buyer to generate some business. I could be wrong about that, but if the OP's side of the story is accurate, that's what it sounds like to me.

    So, if the seller is trying to screw over the buyer, I see nothing wrong with the buyer doing the same thing FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of trying to keep the deal alive. If the buyer needs to do spiteful things to force the seller to follow through on the deal, he should do it.

    Just my $.02... I don't like people who try to take advantage of other people.

  • Homeowner · los angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 57 posts · 1 vote
    13y

    The property is in Santa Barbara. Everything is expensive here. I don't think the seller is getting a commission from the pest company to do the work. More likely he is being ripped off for it. I feel bad for him but I don't want to get ripped off myself by paying for it.

    I am not saying I won't pay anything. But when I agreed to buying the property "as is" I wasn't aware of the 6000$ in expenses for the heater and asbestos containing duct. Since the seller is not willing to renegotiate the price on that I don't feel as bad if I don't pay him for the pest work. The other option is to walk away, which is something I am also seriously considering.

    My wife`s point of view on this is that we get well maintained but old and non-upgraded homes for 620k in that area. So why not buy a not so well maintained home for 560k and renovate it and enjoy the newer upgraded home.

    I feel from a buy and hold point of view it will be much better to pay more for an already upgraded home as all the upgrade costs are being paid for by the 30 year loan which comes with tax deduction and you pay it off with de-valuated dollar over time.

    Buying cheap and renovating now requires a lot of upfront investment which will be financed by expensive dollars today. These dollars could get better rate of return somewhere else(like stocks).

    So that's what is really confusing.

  • Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Different states may vary but I am currently forcing a seller to close who tried to walk away 2 days out from closing. An unconditional contract can be enforced that is the whole point of contract law. In Tennessee the courts can force conveyance of title to the buyer.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    I live in SB and it's nearly impossible that the seller didn't get ripped off by the pest repairs (unless he owns the company or is getting a kick back). The actual pest treatments, even with tenting are a few K. The money for pest companies is in the repairs. They replace a 2' of facia board or a door threshold and it's $350. Window frame repairs start at $500 for no good reason. If they have to crawl under the house (we have a lot of subterr. termites here and few basements), the prices get very skewed. I suspect the OP is getting at least $4K of treatment and repairs, regardless of what the seller paid the pest contractor. I see nothing wrong with negotiating with and assuming good faith on the part of the seller that the treatment and repairs have value.....just not the value of the original quote which the buyer did not agree to.

    J Scott I understand your suspicion, but think it's unlikely the seller is ripping anybody off. The seller is doing what a lot of people do here. They got their pest quote (because everyone makes such a big deal about it) and made it available as part of the listing. And then assumed when they were in contract that it was OK to go ahead with it. I doubt it's a very sophisticated seller.

    Gaurav S. In that price range, I'm guessing you'll be living around the corner from me, on the West Side? Is it the house on G. (which actually got five offers over asking)? Or one of the pending houses on C.?

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    13y

    "I will send the seller a Request to Repair form with the option to pay for these items during closing or reducing the offer price. Most likely he won't agree but it would be nice to bring that on the record so that he knows that the next buyer will see the inspection report."

    In my opinion this is a very bad idea. Make him aware but DO NOT TRY TO CHANGE THE CURRENT TERMS!!!

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Mound, MN · Member since 2010 · 87 posts · 32 votes
    13y

    I'm with Joe - if you try and change the terms it could be construed as a counteroffer which allows them an out. Stick to your guns on the pest issue but don't pursue the duct one.

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    13y

    The previous posts are right on, you shouldn't go back to the seller with a list of other demands. You should make the seller aware of the ASBESTOS on his property which will give him more incentive to sell rather than going back to his other buyer and having to disclose that. Hold your ground on the pest control repairs but don't ask for additional repairs or money off the contract unless you're really willing to walk away over them.

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