Why Would Someone that Is Financially Savvy NOT House-Hack?

Why Would Someone that Is Financially Savvy NOT House-Hack?

Scott TrenchPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes

I'm curious. I have written extensively about how I "House-Hack" and live in one part of a duplex and have tenants rent out the other portion of that. They pay down the mortgage and allow me to live for free.

For everyone that has not lived in their home for 10+ years (I can see you being fairly entrenched at that point), why wouldn't you consider doing this?

It seems to me that you have MORE flexibility than as a renter (when I moved out, I could do so at any time, as I didn't have a lease with myself - I could have moved anywhere in the country and enjoyed some rental income with very low effort) AND more flexibility than the homeowner (when I moved out, I could simply put another tenant in my side to cover the mortgage and make me a little money every month - a homeowner might lose money doing that and have to sell right away, even if it wasn't a great time to sell). You could also stay in the property forever and live for free forever. There are many parts of town here in Denver, many excellent, where you can buy a duplex and use this strategy to live for free or for significantly less than buying a home. I can't think of a single part of town where this would not be a more advantageous way to live, at very low life impact.

The advantages of this are fairly immediate and last forever if you keep the property, and you can literally do this for a year or two, and use the rental income to then pay for the bigger nicer house you want to live in permanently or raise a family in. In fact, many people raise excellent families in duplexes, townhomes, etc, so there's no reason you couldn't raise a family quite nicely in my former home while getting rather rich rather quickly. In fact, you actually get to CHOOSE your neighbors, so you are at less risk of having bad neighbors than the folks who just buy a home or rent!

Why WOULDN'T you do this?

I'm curious to the folks out there not doing this currently (people who have lived in their current home many years are excluded). What do you see as the downsides? Even though I've been doing this for years, with highly positive results, I feel that no one else I know is doing this and am beginning to get frustrated because I see such incredibly obvious, easy, ridiculously high value rewards to doing this for such a low effort! 

What do people that are smarter than I see here that I don't? What is the drawback that keeps people working $50,000 per year jobs for 40+ hours per week, but still refuse to move, then do the 5 extra hours per week to make $20,000 + per year and live for free!? I feel like most people would move across the country for a $20,000 per year raise. So, why do they refuse to move across town for the same financial benefit?

What are some valid reasons for not doing this? Can someone that prioritizes their financial freedom, makes between $50,000-$100,000 per year, has no rental properties, and a net worth below $100,000 explain to me why they would even begin thinking about other ways to build wealth and not immediately move towards this objective? What are other options that they believe to be more impactful to their financial positions, and less impactful to their lives, than house-hacking? How would that person propose to save or earn to build a comparable amount of wealth with less effort?

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Logan AllecBusiness Member
Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 980 votes
10y

@Scott Trench, I don't get it either!  I preach the House Hack Gospel to all of my friends, but the thought simply doesn't appeal to them.  They would rather pay through the nose in rent simply for the benefit of being able to walk to Whole Foods and blow the rest of their paycheck there.  Think about it, young'uns: if you’re in your 20s and currently unattached to children, house hacking is a no-brainer. If you do nothing else in real estate, you will have succeeded by getting into a fourplex as a young man or woman with only 3.5% down. Assuming the rents cover your expenses, in 30 years when you’re in your 50s and the mortgage is paid off, and you’ve done the smart thing by raising the rents over the years, you will be sitting on a multi-million-dollar asset that cash flows thousands of dollars per month at the cost of a measly $20k or so out-of-pocket when you were 20-something. I can’t think of any better way for young people with limited resources to prepare for their future so early on in life with so little cash out-of-pocket. Run the numbers and see for yourself.

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  • Little Rock, AR · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    Lifestyle and cost. I work in a wealthy area, and I hate commuting to work by car more than about anything in life. I can rent with a roommate for a total (including shared utilities) of about $650 per month, with a commute of about 7 minutes. Nearby homes start at about $125-140K retail, and I don't want to buy and expensive house with an expensive mortgage (for my area). If I do a house hack with a duplex, I have to live in the duplex-ville section of town, which is higher-crime than my area and much further away from work. Instead, with housing costs so low, I can save more money for real estate investing by renting for cheap, save time with a short drive to work, enjoy a great lifestyle.

  • easton, PA · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 19 votes
    10y

    Joe, that is good advice. I agree with wanting to be as distant from tenants as possible which is why living in and owning a multi family seems to need certain strategies. It's awkward to be too friendly and it's awkward to be too standoffish.... I think that wording it the way you do is appropriate. I do not like being associated as the person who makes the decisions. I would rather say, "I spoke with the business partners and no we can absolutely not accept partial rent payments" or whatever. It's much different dealing with tenants in a place that you live in as opposed to tenants that you hardly see.

  • Rental Property Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 704 votes
    10y

    @Scott Trench

    Living in NYC is certainly a choice. I own a business that is based in NYC, so my choice is further financially motivated. All of our clients are also based in NYC, and expect their vendors to be on site. I had a stake in this business before any interest in real-estate investing. In many senses, the money I have earned here is the only reason I am interested in real-estate investing.

    Leaving right now means leaving my business, and selling my shares for a much lower value than they'd be worth in a buyout. The cost of me leaving is very real, and requires a massive change in direction for myself and my family.

    We do plan (to eventually) leave NYC, but housing is a completely different financial vertical than my business. I would love to consult remotely with NYC rates and clients, but it's not an option at the moment. So my only choice is to assess the situation for what it is and work within constraints. I don't complain, as I have been very lucky here. I do worry about all the folks who pay for NYC/SF with none of the benefits.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    If it was me, I'd have a property management firm and have them treat me like any other tenant so the other tenants would not know that I (an entity I control, actually, not me personally) had an ownership interest in the property. I value my privacy and my time. If the other tenant(s) have PM issues, let them make the call and have it handled thru channels.

    Naturally, the property would be held in a suitable entity structure to make sure my privacy and assets are protected.

    Again, of course, such an arrangement would not be my first choice, and not for any significant length of time.

    David J Dachtera

    "Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
    - DJ Benedict

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    Seems like most of it has been covered. If I was younger and single, absolutely. But I am older and more financially secure, so I don't need to do this, so I don't. I like my tenants living in town while I live out in the country. I like having space. 

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  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    House-hacking is an excellent way to cover your housing expenses. We bought a duplex in 2012 and have lived in one unit and rented the other ever sense. We're finally closing on a single family home this month as we have a second child on the way and my first son loves to scream and yell and run and do other things that probably annoy the hell out of my tenants (customers). The moment I tried to get my son to stop crying because he was probably annoying my tenants (customers) I realized we needed our own place. 

    It does require a certain temperament to house hack and you have to be comfortable with the tenants the property will attract otherwise it can turn into a nightmare. 

  • Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Abigail Hollar:

    Lifestyle and cost. I work in a wealthy area, and I hate commuting to work by car more than about anything in life. I can rent with a roommate for a total (including shared utilities) of about $650 per month, with a commute of about 7 minutes. Nearby homes start at about $125-140K retail, and I don't want to buy and expensive house with an expensive mortgage (for my area). If I do a house hack with a duplex, I have to live in the duplex-ville section of town, which is higher-crime than my area and much further away from work. Instead, with housing costs so low, I can save more money for real estate investing by renting for cheap, save time with a short drive to work, enjoy a great lifestyle.

    Wow, 140k is expensive??? In my area you can't even get a SFH that isn't a dump for less than 225k and very nice homes are 350k and up. Maybe I should move...

  • Rental Property Investor · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 47 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    "House Hacked" and moved my wife and 2 small kids into a duplex with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, and a garage on each side last year to get started in real estate.  SO THANKFUL I DID and thankful for biggerpockets by which I learned and researched the topic.  So far it's working out great.  Finding great tenants to rent to was a plus as well.   

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 259 posts · 55 votes
    10y

    @Scott Trench

    Great article. Besides personal preferences which some people have (which I think are not reasonable if they are financially savvy as you stated it in your question), I believe the biggest challenge is location. Let me explain with an example: Los Angeles. Unless you are an ok living in D+/C- area (which you will by probably not if you have a family, but even if you are single) , anything above C and C+ areas will cost $600k + (for which you will need to make 100k + or you and your spouse - 50k each). Even in this case you still have to have 30k for downpayment and closing cost (presuming you do FHA).

    Another option is to go with D+/C- an area which is not safety, quality of tenant will be low and chances for appreciation - close to 0. Another way around is to buy far away in the suburbs (by LA suburbs I mean literally 2 hours drive from the city) which is not the best use of your time my any means. Btw in both cases, you still have to spend around 350k-400k do duplex.

  • Investor · Big Spring, TX · Member since 2016 · 140 posts · 59 votes
    10y

    I would have done it 20 years ago if I knew what I know now. Most people are still trying to beat mom and dad to the finish line. They want their parents to think they did good job raising them ( or try to prove their smarter) so they go out and buy the biggest house they can afford (but really cant) drive the nicest car and live paycheck to paycheck. And some just live how they were raised. If you lived in apartments growing up you may be used to that environment. If you lived in a SFR all your life, you will tend to go that direction. I think it's a great way to live if your a single. I am trying to teach my kids what I know now and hope they can make a good choice when they go off to college.

  • Real Estate Agent · Ashburn, VA · Member since 2016 · 107 posts · 31 votes
    10y

    The first property I buy I will be looking to house hack.  I was also worried though about the area I'd have to buy in due to my funds.  (This will be in NOVA so it can be rough in cheaper areas) I am 25 and already sick of renting property and fattening the pockets of others while emptying mine. 

  • Investor · in, MI · Member since 2013 · 226 posts · 102 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Scott Trench:

    is it it worth $20,000+ per year 

     I second the not having to share a roof and my mortgage is a little under $6,000/yr. 

    And essentially my current rental cash flow pays for it anyway (in terms of total cash exchanged). So, I'm in the same situation of tenants paying for my mortgage too, but I have my own private property.

  • Malden, MA · Member since 2016 · 112 posts · 63 votes
    10y

    I guess this complaint of privacy only comes from people who are use to renting/owning a home.. For some, living in an apartment building and dealing with sharing walls is a normal thing so outside of the instant tenants request, I don't assume neighboring tenants being a main concern

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y

    Well we don't really have multifamily housing where I live, so doing the duplex thing isn't really possible. But also I prefer that my tenants not really know where I live. Now an astute person can figure that out, but my tenants arnt really going to be combing through land records to try and figure.out where I live.

  • Investor · Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 214 posts · 104 votes
    10y

    I've thought long and hard about this. I was looking in Pasadena and LA, so let me attempt to show you why house-hacking don't work for me using numbers:

    Option 1. House Hack 2 Bedroom Condo
    Property Price $ 450,000
    Down Pmt 20%
    Term 30
    Rate 4.00%
    Down Pmt $ 90,000
    Closing $ 3,000
    Total Initial Inv. $ 93,000
    Monthly Expenses  
    Mortgage $ 1,719
    Amrt $ (600)
    Int. Deduction $ (60.00)
    Prop. Tax $ 487.50
    Maint. $ 57.50
    Insurance $ 70
    HOA $ 400
    Utilities $ 100
    Internet $ 80.00
    Total Exp. $ 2,254
    Rental Income $ 1,200
    Total Monthly Expenses $ 1,054
     
    Option 2. Rent  
    Total Initial Inv. 800
    Rent 1200

    So if I house-hack, I put down $92,200 more up front and saves $150 a month. A whopping 1.95% annual cash-on-cash return! Woopidoo!

  • Investor · Arcadia, CA · Member since 2016 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Fay Chen there's also potential appreciation of the property itself... but, I think house-hacking doesn't work in your scenario because of the high real estate prices and HOA dues of our area (e.g. Pasadena and LA).

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    two reasons come to mind right away:

    1.wife wont let you

    2. not enough space

  • Investor · Columbus, MT · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Fay Chen

    I am a bit skeptical of the analysis that you put out there.  Would you be buying a condo at full retail value?  There would be no equity gain for you to factor in? Is there an ugly one that you could rehab? 

    Why would you put down 20% when you can do it for 5%. I bet the return would look much different then. 

    Also are utilities and internet included in your current rental? 

    Just seems like some info is missing.  still might be the right choice. 

  • Investor · Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 214 posts · 104 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joshua D.:

    @Fay Chen

    I am a bit skeptical of the analysis that you put out there.  Would you be buying a condo at full retail value?  There would be no equity gain for you to factor in? Is there an ugly one that you could rehab? 

    Why would you put down 20% when you can do it for 5%. I bet the return would look much different then. 

    Also are utilities and internet included in your current rental? 

    Just seems like some info is missing.  still might be the right choice. 

    Unfortunately, there is not much opportunities to make small fixes for large equity gain in that segment of market. If the property needs $20K work, it may be discounted for $25K. 

    I am qualified to do 5% or 3.5% down. But my monthly payment would would also increase. At that point, I'd be paying more to house-hack than to rent.

    The $1200/mon rent is to share an apartment with someone. It includes: one bedroom, private bath, all utilities, wifi & parking (if you are lucky). That seemed to be the market rate after I spent a few months searching for roommates on craigslist. A studio in Pasadena without utilities is about $1500+/mon.

    There are definitely areas in LA that will work for house-hacking. As mentioned in previous posts, those areas are either 1.5+ hours away, or C-/D areas. Bad areas in LA means break-ins, assault with deadly weapon, grand theft, and rape. I have friends who lived in those areas. When asked, they all said they wouldn't mind living there if they were single, but none of them thought it would be a good idea for a single woman to house hack there. The struggle is real...

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    Logan's run the numbers (CPA) and they work if you can pull this off. It is much harder in LA but long term this is no joke. Logan just bought months ago and has made every penny in back already I imagine since. (On paper appreciation) That's like 100% cash on cash in months folks. I know a dude who did this year's ago 90s and now has multi millions coming off one triplex. (Redevelopment ) I would for sure do this maybe in LA Inglewood now for a single no kids type. If you don't want the hassle that is understandable. There are great places to rent still as consolation and I am sure Scott and Logan can put you on their waiting list.

  • Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    House hacking does not seem to work in LA, 95% of the area. Yes, there is always an exception. Maybr in other states each house is a cash flow city, but you can never expect that in LA county in general. I don't get it why people make a big deal earning 100/mo more. I spend more than that eating a lobster dinner for two. I would rather live in a place where if my faucet breaks i could simply boss someone around.
  • Kevin FoxPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 635 votes
    10y

    I am a big advocate for the house-hacking strategy, especially for newer investors looking to really jump-start their portfolio.

    I almost always run the idea past people who come to me looking for advise on how to get started, but not everyone is as intrigued with the idea as you'd expect.

    The two objections I hear most frequently are very similar to what others have stated in this thread: 1. Don't want to live next door to tenants 2. Don't want to make the life-style sacrifice

    While there really isn't much I can say to the latter, there are a few things you can do to make living next door to tenants much less of a headache.

    The biggest thing is not letting them know you're the owner. If you have the property delivered vacant, set up an LLC/DBA for the property to be held under and tell them that the owner offered to give you a rent deduction in exchange for you managing the property. While this doesn't eliminate the chance that the tenant comes knocking on your door asking for repairs to be done, it does make saying 'no' to one of their requests much easier.

    Even for the most disciplined landlord, it can be difficult not to allow personal relationships interfere with your judgement. So, having this 'owner' to place the blame on when the tenant/neighbor comes asking for some help with rent tends to make the whole situation a bit less awkward.

  • Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 17 votes
    10y

    When I was at the lowest point of my life (no steady work, bad relationships, depressed....), I decided to make a change. I flew 3000 miles away to get cheaper schooling and better resources and a new prospective. I ended up in a homeless shelter and instead of giving up to go back to my old life, I stuck it out and became stronger than I thought pissible. Well, here I am again. My husband and 2 young children are about to move from CA to MI to buy our first MFH to fix up and house hack because where there is a will there is a way. If it means 5 years of hard work to build the kind of wealth that will set us free for life, a little discomfort is worth it for that amount of time!

  • Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    I don't believe you need an LLC if you're house hacking, specially in CA, that is simply just no fun paying for the extra $1000 in taxes. DBA? I don't see the point. CA is tenant and employee friendly state, so they'll pierce most corporate veil you put up from a off-the-shelf corporate formation, which is the only logical thing as custom made operating agreement will not go less than 500, and a really safe one means 1000 and up.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    From what I have gathered from reading this thread, I think that the reason that this question cannot be definitively answered is because it is based on opinion. 

    I will say this much. In terms of the levarage it can provide for a new investor, it is definitely one of the most beneficial ways to get started.

    For me personally, buying my first property in my area would be attainable if I quadrupled my income, and put a down payment of about 40,000. This is possible, but the longer that I wait, the longer my path to financial freedom will be. 

    My plan would gain momentum much quicker if I got a little bit creative and flexible with my living situation. What I am trying to say is saving up that initial 40,000 could take anywhere from 5- 7 years if I used what most people would call conventional saving methods, like saving $700 a month. 

    On the other side of the spectrum is the house hack technique. With the 3 % down payment, if I bought a house for $220-240,000, my down payment would be in the $10,000 range. That amount, with some hard work and dedication is attainable, and will be something that I can achieve this year.

    At 26 years old, if start investing into my future now, I will be able to buy the next one in a couple years, and within about 5, I should have enough saved up to buy something ( possibly out of state) in cash rather than having to finance it. 

    What I am trying to say is the sooner I can get started, the sooner my ultimate goal of achieving financial freedom will be achieved. It just depends on what matter most. The here and now feeling of comfort, or the long term sacrifice that requires a certain grit to muster up. I will achieve my goal, and I will become a successful real estate investor, but the path that each and everyone of us takes will always be different. 

    Good luck to you all.

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